Polian is still good for some comedy.....

[BlueShoe]

For Indianapolis fans with short memories, you need only to go back to the 1994 draft when GM Bill Tobin got all over Mel Kiper Jr. for Kiper hammering him for taking linebacker Trev Alberts instead of QB Trent Dilfer. Not that Dilfer was the greatest QB ever, but he did win a Super Bowl, and was a good back-up in the league for 14 years.

 

In the 1990's you had Jeff George, Steve Entmann, Quentin Coryatt, and others. Tobin was wrong, Mel Kiper was right. Maybe Polian wasn't so bad after all if you go back awhile into history !!!

 

Bill Tobin was very underrated. He was actually a very good GM.

[GoColts8818]

Point well taken. I guess my main point was that it wasn't a bed of roses before Polian came in. You had 95/96 which were pretty good seasons, but not all the sustained success that was had under Polian. For a # 5 pick, Alberts or Dilfer would not have been the best pick.

No it wasn't.  Things were starting to turn around under Jim Irsay when Bill Polian came in and frankly it was probably the fact that Polian looked at guy like Jim Irsay who was committed to winning unlike his dad that probably made the job attractive him in the first place, but there is no question that Bill Polian coming in took the Colts to the next step. 

 

With that said looking back at the Kiper and Tobin issue I think the Colts did the right thing in not taking Dilfer but just took the wrong player in Alberts.  So the Colts were wrong for talking Alberts but Kiper was also wrong by acting like the Dilfer was some great QB they passed on.  Keep in mind Kiper's argument was that they didn't have a QB on the roster not that Trev Alberts wouldn't be a good player.  In fact, it's been a while since I watched that video so I could be wrong about this, I think Kiper even says Alberts will be a good player but the Colts needed a QB when he first talked about it.  It's not like Kiper was bashing what the Colts did for taking Alberts he was bashing them for not taking a QB that they so badly needed when it turns out they didn't because Harbaugh played pretty well over the next few years. 

 

Honestly the worst thing Tobin did during that time period was trading for Craig Erikson and trying to give up on Harbaugh after one year.  The ironic thing about that is that Erikson was on available because the Bucs took Dilfer. 

 

I think the whole Kiper/Tobin sums up Tobin as a GM.  He would get it half right.  Like in that draft, he did the right thing in passing on Dilfer but took the wrong player in his place.  It was a step up from Jim Irsay the GM that would just do the complete wrong thing but not as good as Polian who would have probably not only did the right thing in passing on Dilfer but probably taken the right player in his place MOST of the time.  That's why Polian was one of the best GMs the NFL has seen while Tobin was good for the Colts at the time but nothing special. 

[The Old Crow]

Kiper was 100% wrong.

 

He said Trent Dilfer was a franchise quarterback & he wasn't.

 

I'm not saying Kiper was 100 % right on this one, Dilfer would have been a miss also at #5. The point is Tobin was a mediocre, but not horrible GM. Polian did a much better job.

[The Old Crow]

No it wasn't.  Things were starting to turn around under Jim Irsay when Bill Polian came in and frankly it was probably the fact that Polian looked at guy like Jim Irsay who was committed to winning unlike his dad that probably made the job attractive him in the first place, but there is no question that Bill Polian coming in took the Colts to the next step. 

 

With that said looking back at the Kiper and Tobin issue I think the Colts did the right thing in not taking Dilfer but just took the wrong player in Alberts.  So the Colts were wrong for talking Alberts but Kiper was also wrong by acting like the Dilfer was some great QB they passed on.  Keep in mind Kiper's argument was that they didn't have a QB on the roster not that Trev Alberts wouldn't be a good player.  In fact, it's been a while since I watched that video so I could be wrong about this, I think Kiper even says Alberts will be a good player but the Colts needed a QB when he first talked about it.  It's not like Kiper was bashing what the Colts did for taking Alberts he was bashing them for not taking a QB that they so badly needed when it turns out they didn't because Harbaugh played pretty well over the next few years. 

 

Honestly the worst thing Tobin did during that time period was trading for Craig Erikson and trying to give up on Harbaugh after one year.  The ironic thing about that is that Erikson was on available because the Bucs took Dilfer. 

 

I think the whole Kiper/Tobin sums up Tobin as a GM.  He would get it half right.  Like in that draft, he did the right thing in passing on Dilfer but took the wrong player in his place.  It was a step up from Jim Irsay the GM that would just do the complete wrong thing but not as good as Polian who would have probably not only did the right thing in passing on Dilfer but probably taken the right player in his place MOST of the time.  That's why Polian was one of the best GMs the NFL has seen while Tobin was good for the Colts at the time but nothing special. 

 

I don't pretend to know as much about the Indy Colts early years, as I do the Baltimore years, but looking at the record, Tobin was an average GM. As you pointed out, he had a few good picks, but a lot of misses. The Colts record during those years didn't get close to matching the Polian years. By the way, Tobin also hammered Kiper about being a Baltimore guy, who was sore about the move. Us Baltimore guys always get a bum rap ! LOL

[braveheartcolt]

How many GMs can say they have built teams to go to 6 Super Bowls? Then how many can say they did it with two small market teams? It's not like its easy to get to the Super Bowl. Clearly Polian had flaws his ego maybe being the biggest one but lets not kid our selves Polian is one of the best football minds out there even if he is a jerk of a person.

Also I hate when people dismiss others success just because they have a great QB it's a well known fact football is the ultimate team game. If it was all about the QB then why do Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have Super Bowl rings and Dan Marino doesn't? It takes more than a great QB to win or even get to a Super Bowl. Also if its all about the QB then why when Manning loses people go out of their way to blame anyone but him? People cant have it both ways. You can't discredit others success because of a superstar QB and then say its others fault when he fails to win.

People also over look that Polian built an expansion team that went to the NFC Title game in its second year of existence as well. The man built winners every where he went. His teams had a total of seven losing seasons since he started with the Bills in 1986 till he was fired by the Colts in 2012. They made the playoffs every other year of his career. Most teams would kill for that kind of sustained success. Also worth mentioning that the Bills had as many NFL playoff trips under Polian as they have as a franchise without Polian. The Colts have 14 playoff trips without Polian in franchise history and 11 wih him.

As for Jim Kelly Polian didn't draft him but he is the one who got him to sign for them in 1986 after he had gone to the USFL. So credit to him for not trading the rights to Kelly and getting him to play for the Bills.

It was time for him to go when the Colts let him go and he had a huge ego and was a jerk but that doesn't change the fact he was very good at what he did even if we don't like him as a person.

Some of the greatest teams in sporting history have been down to one player, It is not all that uncommon. Barcelona have been one of thge best soccer teams on the planet over the last 5 years. Take one player out and they are mediocre. That is down to Messi rather than the 3 coaches they have had etc. I could draw parallels all night. If you remember about 3 years ago, I was unpopular on here (surprise surprise) as I said the accolades BP got were unjustified and way over the top, when GM of the Decade was being thrown around like confetti at a wedding training school. I have not changed my mind. But I understand all those who see it differently.

[BlueShoe]

I don't pretend to know as much about the Indy Colts early years, as I do the Baltimore years, but looking at the record, Tobin was an average GM. As you pointed out, he had a few good picks, but a lot of misses. The Colts record during those years didn't get close to matching the Polian years. By the way, Tobin also hammered Kiper about being a Baltimore guy, who was sore about the move. Us Baltimore guys always get a bum rap ! LOL

 

I believe that Tobin was a good GM. He had several obstacles in his way though, namely a young Irsay, who decided to promote Infante, fire Marchibroda, and send Vince (Bill's brother) packing to Arizona. Bill Tobin was a good talent evaluator. It is my opinion that Jim Irsay had a tough time standing on the sidelines, and it was tough for Tobin, as his first GM. I believe this caused friction between the two.

[The Old Crow]

I believe that Tobin was a good GM. He had several obstacles in his way though, namely a young Irsay, who decided to promote Infante, fire Marchibroda, and send Vince (Bill's brother) packing to Arizona. Bill Tobin was a good talent evaluator. It is my opinion that Jim Irsay had a tough time standing on the sidelines, and it was tough for Tobin, as his first GM. I believe this caused friction between the two.

 

yes, I think it took Jim Irsay time to figure it out. Jerry Jones and Al Davis never got it, and look how their teams ended up. Looks like Tobin ended up as a scout for the Cincinnati Bengals. The skinny on Tobin seems to be good football man, average GM under constraints, but the record doesn't match Polians.

[cranium cramp]

2 Super Bowl appearances for the Colts and 1 Super Bowl win. How many did we win or participate in before Polian came to Indy?

 

Pre Polian era 1984-1997 the Colts were 88-135 and won 39.46% of the games played.

 

The Polian era 1998-2011 the Colts were 143-81 and won 63.84% of the games played.

 

10 game win seasons before the Polian era happened 0 times.

 

10 game win seasons during the Polian era happened 11 times, and 9 of them were straight. 8 seasons were 12 wins or better, and 7 were straight.

 

Yeah, not too many GMs have ever done that.

Polian had the great fortune of riding some coat tails, Manning is the single greatest reason that this team did as well as it did. Ask yourself this simple question. Without Manning yet retaining Polian would we have had that success? Now keeping Manning and not having Polian?

 

 Polian had 2 of the greatest QBs of their respective eras. Manning and Kelly, look at Buffalos team versus Manning and the Colts. For every star player on the Colts there seems to be a counter part at the same position on the Bills. Manning-Kelly, Reed-Marvin. Edge-Thomas. Smith-Dwight. I mean is uncanny what he did without most people realizing that he had replicated this team using the blue print from the Bill's.

 

 To bad he could never figure out how to draft a reliable kicker. had he figured that out then we could talk about him being a great GM.

[Narcosys]

I swear, polian us a pompous donkey. In listening to NFL radio, and it seems like he can't talk about sonething without taking credit it throwing his nane in there. Whether its hockey, another football team or even Andrew Luck, he has to take credit. "I say we cause I did most of the scouting on Luck before I was let go and it was already decided we were taking him in thev1st round"

Seriously dude? ST*U!