Polian is still good for some comedy.....

[braveheartcolt]

four super bowl visits when he was in buffalo. what have they done since.

6 SB's, 5 Losses. If that is genius, then I clearly don't understand the meaning of the word. Whilst it's well known I never been a fan, I've never disagreed that he has made some good choices. I've no idea if he drafted Jim Kelly, but his two QB's made his name, not the other way around.

[#12]

Quite honestly, I look forward to a day 2-3 years from now when Polian's name will no longer come up on a daily basis. 

[jvan1973]

6 SB's, 5 Losses. If that is genius, then I clearly don't understand the meaning of the word. Whilst it's well known I never been a fan, I've never disagreed that he has made some good choices. I've no idea if he drafted Jim Kelly, but his two QB's made his name, not the other way around.

the gm doesn't coach or play. the teams he built went to six super bowls. i don't think anyother gm can say that

[MacDee1975]

2 Super Bowl appearances for the Colts and 1 Super Bowl win. How many did we win or participate in before Polian came to Indy?

 

Pre Polian era 1984-1997 the Colts were 88-135 and won 39.46% of the games played.

 

The Polian era 1998-2011 the Colts were 143-81 and won 63.84% of the games played.

 

10 game win seasons before the Polian era happened 0 times.

 

10 game win seasons during the Polian era happened 11 times, and 9 of them were straight. 8 seasons were 12 wins or better, and 7 were straight.

 

Yeah, not too many GMs have ever done that.

 

Just replace the word "Polian" with "Manning", and the accomplishments are even more impressive.

[BlueShoe]

_{Just replace the word "Polian" with "Manning", and the accomplishments are even more impressive.}

 

 

Polian drafted Peyton.

[BlueShoe]

The fact that NFL fans don't understand the scheduling formula bogles my mind...

 

What boggles my mind is rookie quarterbacks who do not even know the divisions and conferences in the NFL. 

[cranium cramp]

No, Tony Dungy fully embraced that philosophy as well. I agree 110% that it affected our post-season performance negatively, but to say Polian forced it on the coaches all those years would be incorrect. The only year I believe that would be true of is 2009.

I can only say that we will agree to disagree. I am of the thinking Polian more rode the coat tails of Manning, don't get me wrong. Polian was a good GM. However, when a GM finds that one QB. Montana, Brady, Manning.........................  Luck  a QB that can define the very game itself.

 

I see Polian as a GM who had the great fortune of have Jim Kelly, Peyton Manning as well as to many great players from the Bills heydays as well as the Colts. Think about that for one minute, At every position the Bills had as many if not more the we did. All that talent and 1 ring.

[Freenyfan102]

Polian is starting to act like madden. Tries to say something smart but come off like a total *.

[lollygagger8]

Polian is starting to act like madden. Tries to say something smart but come off like a total *.

 

Lol, like:

 

"If the quarterback throws a pass to the receiver in the endzone, and he catches it, BOOM.....it's called a touchdown."  

[John Waylon]

I can only say that we will agree to disagree. I am of the thinking Polian more rode the coat tails of Manning, don't get me wrong. Polian was a good GM. However, when a GM finds that one QB. Montana, Brady, Manning.........................  Luck  a QB that can define the very game itself.

 

I see Polian as a GM who had the great fortune of have Jim Kelly, Peyton Manning as well as to many great players from the Bills heydays as well as the Colts. Think about that for one minute, At every position the Bills had as many if not more the we did. All that talent and 1 ring.

Agree to disagree about what? 

 

I stated that it was Dungy's philosophy to rest starters just as much so, if not more than Polian's, and you're talking about whether or not he is a great GM...

 

Am I missing something here?

[MacDee1975]

Polian drafted Peyton.

 

And then Peyton made Polian.

[BlueShoe]

And then Peyton made Polian.

You should do some research on Bill Polian and his many accomplishments over his years in the business. Polian had been to 4 Super Bowls, and drafted several HOF players, before Peyton was out of high school.

[MacDee1975]

You should do some research on Bill Polian and his many accomplishments over his years in the business. Polian had been to 4 Super Bowls, and drafted several HOF players, before Peyton was out of high school.

 

I'm only talking about his tenure with the Colts.  What he did with any other organization prior is irrelevant.

 

Had any other GM drafted Peyton Manning for the Colts, they would have had the same success Polian had here.

 

Had Polian drafted any other QB besides Manning, he would NOT have had the same success here.

 

Im gonna guess Denver's GM will have a nice little list of accomplishments while Manning is playing there, and it ain't gonna be due to him being an elite GM.

[crazycolt1]

What is so funny? Polian already admitted that he wanted to trade Peyton during a contract dispute, so I will buy that he was looking for a young quarterback to develop, in Peyton's later years; his last contract.

 

I did not agree with everything Polian did, but the man was a genius. His time ran its course and now he is in the media. I love reading his articles, and am very proud to say that he was a great Colts GM. I am not sure why so many Colts fans find humor in bashing him.

I can say that I think Polian was good at finding a few diamonds in the rough but his talent at running a NFL team is pretty poor.  He ran the Colts as if Manning was the only player on the roster. Had the Colts been in any other AFC division their winning percentage would have been a lot lower that it was. Playoff after playoff we sat and watched the Colts get beat by not having a decent defense or special team. All the eggs went into keeping Manning happy while the rest of the team was not even average. The Colts and Polian jumped on Mannings back and road him out of town. When Polian left he left the Colts 38 million in dead cap space from very poor signings. Painter and Collins were Polain boys. Collins took 4 million dollars for playing a half of a game in a two year contract? He also signed Freeney to a long term way over paid contract. Brackett was over paid also. While both Freeney and Brackett were fan favorites over paying them is no excuse. This is just my opinion as a long time Colt fan. Some may not feel the same way but it is what it is. 

[BlueShoe]

I'm only talking about his tenure with the Colts.  What he did with any other organization prior is irrelevant.

 

There is no way I can take you serious after a statement like that, so we will agree to agree on some things, and completely disagree on other points.

[NewColtsFan]

I believe it would be 7 super bowls....

 

 

-- 4 with Buffalo

-- 1 with Carolina

-- 2 with Indianapolis....

------

 

7 Super Bowls for Bill Polian

 

And 4 of them were in a row....   never done before or since.

[Dustin]

I believe it would be 7 super bowls....

-- 4 with Buffalo

-- 1 with Carolina

-- 2 with Indianapolis....

------

7 Super Bowls for Bill Polian

And 4 of them were in a row.... never done before or since.

Just to nit-pick: he only went to three with Buffalo. He wasn't there for their 4th.

[MacDee1975]

There is no way I can take you serious after a statement like that, so we will agree to agree on some things, and completely disagree on other points.

 

You can't take serious that my only commentary in this thread pertains to Bill Polian and his work as the GM of the Indianapolis Colts?  Uh.....okay. 

 

I think you think this argument is about something completely different.  You might want to reread the initial post of mine that sparked this argument.

[BlueShoe]

You can't take serious that my only commentary in this thread pertains to Bill Polian and his work as the GM of the Indianapolis Colts?  Uh.....okay. 

 

I think you think this argument is about something completely different.  You might want to reread the initial post of mine that sparked this argument.

 

You can't have it both ways. You said in a post earlier, "And then Peyton made Polian". That is simply not true. Peyton was Polian's greatest draft pick, and few will disagree that he was. That said, Polian was a well accomplished NFL GM, long before he starting working for the Colts.

[braveheartcolt]

You can't have it both ways. You said in a post earlier, "And then Peyton made Polian". That is simply not true. Peyton was Polian's greatest draft pick, and few will disagree that he was. That said, Polian was a well accomplished NFL GM, long before he starting working for the Colts.

You make it sound like it was an act of 'genius' that Bill drafted Peyton. He was definitely the greatest player he drafted, but that is subtley different. If Luck goes onto lead this team to many victories and multiple Super Bowls, I definitely would not be hailing Grigson as the GM of the Decade due to this one pick.

[MacDee1975]

You can't have it both ways. You said in a post earlier, "And then Peyton made Polian". That is simply not true. Peyton was Polian's greatest draft pick, and few will disagree that he was. That said, Polian was a well accomplished NFL GM, long before he starting working for the Colts.

 

Well since the post that started this whole discussion was one that listed Bill Polian's accomplishments for the Indianapolis Colts only, I thought it was evident that my direct response to that post assumed the same constraint.  But, to clarify:  "Manning made Polian.....as it pertains to his career with the Indianapolis Colts"

[Warhawk]

Holy hindsight bias Batman!

[The Old Crow]

Just replace the word "Polian" with "Manning", and the accomplishments are even more impressive.

 

 

From an outsider's point of view, it seems that many on this Colt's forum only give credit to Jim Irsay and Peyton Manning, and nothing to Polian. The almost 64% winning percentage and Super Bowl title contrasts with the Indy Colt's record from 1984-1998.I know the guy made mistakes at the end, bringing in his son, some bad drafts, and being abrasive, but holy cow, it couldn't have been that bad with that record. Some of you Indy fans are starting to sound like Philly fans, just don't hit Polian with a snowball like the Philly fans did to Santa Claus.

[braveheartcolt]

From an outsider's point of view, it seems that many on this Colt's forum only give credit to Jim Irsay and Peyton Manning, and nothing to Polian. The almost 64% winning percentage and Super Bowl title contrasts with the Indy Colt's record from 1984-1998.I know the guy made mistakes at the end, bringing in his son, some bad drafts, and being abrasive, but holy cow, it couldn't have been that bad with that record. Some of you Indy fans are starting to sound like Philly fans, just don't hit Polian with a snowball like the Philly fans did to Santa Claus.

So I'm supposed to like a guy who didn't care for his fans, only himself and his family? No thanks. What was his record like at the Colts without Peyton? I'm tired of being trashed for not liking someone who I think got lucky and acted like a buffoon on a regular basis.

[schwamm]

So I'm supposed to like a guy who didn't care for his fans, only himself and his family? No thanks. What was his record like at the Colts without Peyton? I'm tired of being trashed for not liking someone who I think got lucky and acted like a buffoon on a regular basis.

I completely agree that likability was not one of his accomplishments. He behaved like a jerk here, especially towards the end, but that doesn't negate his contributions. He did more than bring Manning here, not least of which was navigating the cap better and longer than most (I remember Jags fans predicting in around '05 something similar to the Titans like collapse of around '03).

The fact that we got to experience the sustained excellence was due in large part to Polian's management. The crash at the end is on him too, as is the terrible drafting in the last couple years (regardless if it was him or his son). His behavior just makes the bad stuff stand out, IMO.

[BlueShoe]

You make it sound like it was an act of 'genius' that Bill drafted Peyton. He was definitely the greatest player he drafted, but that is subtley different. If Luck goes onto lead this team to many victories and multiple Super Bowls, I definitely would not be hailing Grigson as the GM of the Decade due to this one pick.

 

We cannot overlook everything that Grigson will do just because he drafted Luck. That is unfair to him, just as it is unfair to Polian. Both GMs had to choose a quarterback (Leaf, RGIII). I was sold on Peyton when he was in college, as I watched him a lot because he was on TV. That said, many experts thought Leaf was the better choice, just as many experts believed that RGIII was the better choice. It will all play out, but we cannot forget what happened along the way, and the choices that were made to get there.

 

Some people hate Polian just because he is no longer here, and that is silly to me. He was very successful in drafting Edgerrin, Pathon, Peterson, Marcus Washington, Thornton, Freeney, Mathis, Marlin Jackson, Hayden, Wayne, Bethea, Clark, Sanders, and so on. Look at some players that are still playing in the league such as Wheeler, Tamme, and Giordano. He did this while picking very late in most drafts. I believe what hurt Polian the most was his inability to draft offensive lineman. Outside of  Rick DeMulling, Ryan Diem, and Anthony Castonzo he did not invest enough.

 

Peyton was a huge piece to the puzzle, but he wasn't the only piece that got us so many victories. Polian did not draft as well in the last few years of his tenure in Indy, but he brought in enough talent for us to win a Super Bowl. We cannot say that Peyton won the Super Bowl all by himself, as he really did not play his best football in the 2006 playoffs. People forget how good our defense was in that Super Bowl run, and most of that was due to Bob Sanders, who was another Polian pick.

[BlueShoe]

Well since the post that started this whole discussion was one that listed Bill Polian's accomplishments for the Indianapolis Colts only, I thought it was evident that my direct response to that post assumed the same constraint.  But, to clarify:  "Manning made Polian.....as it pertains to his career with the Indianapolis Colts"

 

I disagree. Read my post above.

[The Old Crow]

So I'm supposed to like a guy who didn't care for his fans, only himself and his family? No thanks. What was his record like at the Colts without Peyton? I'm tired of being trashed for not liking someone who I think got lucky and acted like a buffoon on a regular basis.

 

 

Look, you guys bashed me for some of my comments about the Irsays. I understand your eomotions and anger towards Polian, but I could say the same thing about the Irsays. They cared only about their family, and didn't care about Baltimore fans. Bob Irsay also acted like a buffoon on a regular basis. However, after debating forum members on this point, I think to be fair, I had to examine Jim Irsay's record as an owner on it's own, and it is a good one. Despite my personal feelings about the Irsays, you have to look at his record as an owner from 1998-present and say he is a good owner, and runs a dang good organization. Those are the facts. Conversely, if you examine Polian's record, and take out the emotions, you would have to admit he was a good GM with the Colts, and at Buffalo. The record does not lie.

 

By the way, I didn't bring up the Bob Irsay stuff to take the thread a different way. I'm just trying to contrast the two situations. Of course Manning made Polian, but you also have to draft a team behind him. Maybe you guys should have won more Super Bowls, but you did win one, and that's more than most organizations. If you give Jim Irsay credit, you also have to credit the management team that includes Bill Polian.

 

Like any GM or coach, there is a time to move on, and for Jim Irsay, that time came two years ago. The same thing happened in Baltimore with Brian Billick as a coach. It was time for a change, and time to move onto Harbaugh. Like Indy with Polian, some didn't like Billick, but most Raven's fans have a warm place in their heart for him, because he won Super Bowl 35 for us. Billick is similar to Polian in being a bit arrogant and abrasive, but both guys won Super Bowls as part of either a coaching team, or management team.

 

I think you guys got a little spoiled with all the success you had, and forgot what it was like from 1984-1998. In Baltimore, I have a longer persepective. I saw the great Colts teams of the 1960's and early 1970's, and the current Raven's teams. However, I also saw the Baltimore Colts 1972-1983, and the Baltimore Ravens 1996-1999, not to mention the Orioles for the previous 14 seasons before we got to the playoffs. I'm not saying you have to like Polian, but if you want me to be fair, you have to be fair. The record is the record.

[jvan1973]

I believe it would be 7 super bowls....

-- 4 with Buffalo

-- 1 with Carolina

-- 2 with Indianapolis....

------

7 Super Bowls for Bill Polian

And 4 of them were in a row.... never done before or since.

Polian was here for five years before the panthers went to the superbowl

[ryano]

I believe it would be 7 super bowls....

 

 

-- 4 with Buffalo

-- 1 with Carolina

-- 2 with Indianapolis....

------

 

7 Super Bowls for Bill Polian

 

And 4 of them were in a row....   never done before or since.

Polian was not in Carolina when they went.

[MacDee1975]

I disagree. Read my post above.

 

You make some valid points.

[The Old Crow]

Polian was here for five years before the panthers went to the superbowl

 

 

Perhaps he was the Buck Showalter of Carolina. Showalter was at the NY Yankees and the Arizona Diamondbacks and left right before their successes. You've seen what he's done with the Baltimore Orioles when he stayed around. Three struggling franchises, three successes. You can certainly argue Polian helped to build up Carolina, like he did Buffalo and the Colts.

[GoColts8818]

6 SB's, 5 Losses. If that is genius, then I clearly don't understand the meaning of the word. Whilst it's well known I never been a fan, I've never disagreed that he has made some good choices. I've no idea if he drafted Jim Kelly, but his two QB's made his name, not the other way around.

How many GMs can say they have built teams to go to 6 Super Bowls? Then how many can say they did it with two small market teams? It's not like its easy to get to the Super Bowl. Clearly Polian had flaws his ego maybe being the biggest one but lets not kid our selves Polian is one of the best football minds out there even if he is a jerk of a person.

Also I hate when people dismiss others success just because they have a great QB it's a well known fact football is the ultimate team game. If it was all about the QB then why do Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have Super Bowl rings and Dan Marino doesn't? It takes more than a great QB to win or even get to a Super Bowl. Also if its all about the QB then why when Manning loses people go out of their way to blame anyone but him? People cant have it both ways. You can't discredit others success because of a superstar QB and then say its others fault when he fails to win.

People also over look that Polian built an expansion team that went to the NFC Title game in its second year of existence as well. The man built winners every where he went. His teams had a total of seven losing seasons since he started with the Bills in 1986 till he was fired by the Colts in 2012. They made the playoffs every other year of his career. Most teams would kill for that kind of sustained success. Also worth mentioning that the Bills had as many NFL playoff trips under Polian as they have as a franchise without Polian. The Colts have 14 playoff trips without Polian in franchise history and 11 wih him.

As for Jim Kelly Polian didn't draft him but he is the one who got him to sign for them in 1986 after he had gone to the USFL. So credit to him for not trading the rights to Kelly and getting him to play for the Bills.

It was time for him to go when the Colts let him go and he had a huge ego and was a jerk but that doesn't change the fact he was very good at what he did even if we don't like him as a person.

[GoColts8818]

So I'm supposed to like a guy who didn't care for his fans, only himself and his family? No thanks. What was his record like at the Colts without Peyton? I'm tired of being trashed for not liking someone who I think got lucky and acted like a buffoon on a regular basis.

we never saw Colts team that was built to be without Peyton Manning under Polian so we don't know we do know he built two other playoff teams one of which was a Super Bowl team in his other two stops without Peyton Manning.

I think it's fair to say Peyton Manning doesn't need Bill Polian to be successful and Bill Polian didn't need Peyton Manning to be successful but when you put them together you have a chance for something special.

You don't have to like Polian that's fine. He's a jerk I don't think anyone is going to argue that. However, I think people are mostly taking issue with your idea that he just got lucky. He didn't. He built an expasion team and two NFL laughing stocks before he got there into winners. You don't just do that by getting lucky. Again you can hate the man all you want. I don't like BB or Tom Brady but if I said all they did was get lucky people would say I am just letting my hate cloud my judgement of their success and they would be right.

[GoColts8818]

The "formula" just happened to turn out:

Broncos vs. Ravens?

Broncos vs. Colts?

yes they have used the same one every year since realignment. You play one division in the other conference on a rotation and one division in your conference on a rotation. Your six division games. Then the other two are the other two teams that finished in the same position as you in your division in your conference. So in any given year can figure out who 14 of the 16 teams are who you will play. In most cases you know where too as you just flip flop home games in the rotation except for the rule that eastern baed teams can only play two west coast games in one season which is why we get the Seahawks at home and are going to Arizona even though we are due for a home game with the Cards and a road trip to Seattle.

To your point though its the AFC wests year to play the AFC south and we went to Denver last time which is where Colts vs Broncos came from. Both the Ravens and Broncos won their divisions last year which is where Broncos vs Ravens came from.

[GoColts8818]

That could work out well... for the Colts.

well as a scout he was good that's what he did the years Bill had his "good" drafts here and when they found guys like Wilkins, Saturday, Rhodes, and Brackett as undrafted free agents. I think he just make the jump from the guy who scouts talent to being the decision maker very well. We see this with coaches all he time it's why guys like Norv Turner, Wade Philips, or Romeo Crennel make good coordinators but struggle as head coaches. I dont think its unreasonable to think the same could be true for front office people.

[The Old Crow]

For Indianapolis fans with short memories, you need only to go back to the 1994 draft when GM Bill Tobin got all over Mel Kiper Jr. for Kiper hammering him for taking linebacker Trev Alberts instead of QB Trent Dilfer. Not that Dilfer was the greatest QB ever, but he did win a Super Bowl, and was a good back-up in the league for 14 years.

 

In the 1990's you had Jeff George, Steve Entmann, Quentin Coryatt, and others. Tobin was wrong, Mel Kiper was right. Maybe Polian wasn't so bad after all if you go back awhile into history !!!

[GoColts8818]

For Indianapolis fans with short memories, you need only to go back to the 1994 draft when GM Bill Tobin got all over Mel Kiper Jr. for Kiper hammering him for taking linebacker Trev Alberts instead of QB Trent Dilfer. Not that Dilfer was the greatest QB ever, but he did win a Super Bowl, and was a good back-up in the league for 14 years.

 

In the 1990's you had Jeff George, Steve Entmann, Quentin Coryatt, and others. Tobin was wrong, Mel Kiper was right. Maybe Polian wasn't so bad after all if you go back awhile into history !!!

Had we drafted Dilfter there would have been 95 season with Harbaugh that ended in the AFC Title game and maybe no Peyton.  I think Colts fans are just happy with not drafting Dilfter.  It's not like they missed out on a Hall of Famer.  Honestly what the Colts did ended up working out for them over the long term.  Kiper was attacking the Colts like they passed on a Peyton Manning.  He wasn't 100% right either.  His whole argument was that the Colts didn't have a QB.  Harbaugh went on to have a Pro-Bowl season, be a runner up for MVP, and lead the Colts to the playoffs twice.  So the argument that they didn't have a QB was false.  Neither the Colts or Kiper were 100% right or wrong that day. 

[The Old Crow]

Had we drafted Dilfter there would have been 95 season with Harbaugh that ended in the AFC Title game and maybe no Peyton.  I think Colts fans are just happy with not drafting Dilfter.  It's not like they missed out on a Hall of Famer.  Honestly what the Colts did ended up working out for them over the long term.  Kiper was attacking the Colts like they passed on a Peyton Manning.  He wasn't 100% right either.  His whole argument was that the Colts didn't have a QB.  Harbaugh went on to have a Pro-Bowl season, be a runner up for MVP, and lead the Colts to the playoffs twice.  So the argument that they didn't have a QB was false.  Neither the Colts or Kiper were 100% right or wrong that day. 

 

Point well taken. I guess my main point was that it wasn't a bed of roses before Polian came in. You had 95/96 which were pretty good seasons, but not all the sustained success that was had under Polian. For a # 5 pick, Alberts or Dilfer would not have been the best pick.

[MacDee1975]

For Indianapolis fans with short memories, you need only to go back to the 1994 draft when GM Bill Tobin got all over Mel Kiper Jr. for Kiper hammering him for taking linebacker Trev Alberts instead of QB Trent Dilfer. Not that Dilfer was the greatest QB ever, but he did win a Super Bowl, and was a good back-up in the league for 14 years.

 

In the 1990's you had Jeff George, Steve Entmann, Quentin Coryatt, and others. Tobin was wrong, Mel Kiper was right. Maybe Polian wasn't so bad after all if you go back awhile into history !!!

 

Kiper was 100% wrong.

 

He said Trent Dilfer was a franchise quarterback & he wasn't.