I JUST GOT INTO A FIGHT! HOW MANY TROPHIES DO WE HAVE?!

[The Old Crow]

I am sorry, I just do not believe you. So, if you do not cite your proof then you are just plain lying. 

  

 

Logic dictates that if the trophy is in Baltimore, whether it was part of a settlement of judgement, than it is Baltimores. If it weren't true, than it would be sitting next to the 2006 Super Bowl Lombardi trophy in Indianapolis.

[bayone]

to be honest I always have read that the history of a team follows it from 1 city to the next, so Balt Ravens then would have the history of The Cleveland Browns , I have no source but know I have read it a few times as teams have moved over the years

 

However I do salute Baltimore for honoring their past heros

[bayone]

This whole discussion is silly, the Colts won 2 superbowls.

 

 

Might as well throw more monkeywrenches into the gears of this 'silly' discussion:

 

As an older fan, I do not value a Super Bowl championship any different than an NFL championship from 1921 to 1966, when there

was no Super Bowl, just the Championship Game.  Either one was in reality the World Championship of professional football. Certainly the level of competition is much higher today, but the accomplishment means the same thing in history as it did in the beginning. Is the 1966 Packers NFL championship not equal to the Packers 1967 Super Bowl championship?

What we are really talking about here is how many world championships did the Colts franchise win?

Officially, they won it all in 1958, 1959, 1970 and 2006.

 

They also won the NFL Championship game in 1968, but lost the World Champiionship ( Super Bowl ) to the Jets.

Personally, I will also always know that they were cheated out of the title in 1965, when at Lambeau Field in the playoffs,

the Packers kicked a wide-right 'field goal' to put the game into overtime. In the era before instant replay and challenges,

the obvious miss was allowed to stand. The Colts should have won in regulation, and would have been heavily favored

against the Browns in the Championship game. I consider the Colts 5-time World champions.

 

I remember that wide kick but forgot year & Vs who

 

A different year in Champ game Browns whipped Colts to my dismay

[The Old Crow]

A small historical fact for younger Colts fans: The D-Line for the Colts in the mid-70's ( Joe Ehrmann, John Dutton, Mike Barnes and Fred Cook ) were named the 'Sack Pack' in a contest by the fans. The players didn't really like that name; they called themselves the 'Looney Tunes'.

 

 

It was a very good defensive line. The 75, 76, and 77 teams were pretty good. Unfortunately, the Steelers and Raiders got in their way, and were very dominant teams during that time frame. The 10-7 win over Miami  in the fog at Memorial Stadium to win the AFC East, was a great game. There was still the rivalry deal going on between Baltimore and Miami, because of Shula being forced out by Carroll Rosenbloom, after the Super Bowl 3 loss. Everyone wonders what might have happened if they had brought Unitas in earlier in that game, and benched Morrall. I don't think anyone could have had a worse game than Morrall did in that game against the Jets.

[The Old Crow]

This whole discussion is silly, the Colts won 2 superbowls.

 

 

Might as well throw more monkeywrenches into the gears of this 'silly' discussion:

 

As an older fan, I do not value a Super Bowl championship any different than an NFL championship from 1921 to 1966, when there

was no Super Bowl, just the Championship Game.  Either one was in reality the World Championship of professional football. Certainly the level of competition is much higher today, but the accomplishment means the same thing in history as it did in the beginning. Is the 1966 Packers NFL championship not equal to the Packers 1967 Super Bowl championship?

What we are really talking about here is how many world championships did the Colts franchise win?

Officially, they won it all in 1958, 1959, 1970 and 2006.

 

They also won the NFL Championship game in 1968, but lost the World Champiionship ( Super Bowl ) to the Jets.

Personally, I will also always know that they were cheated out of the title in 1965, when at Lambeau Field in the playoffs,

the Packers kicked a wide-right 'field goal' to put the game into overtime. In the era before instant replay and challenges,

the obvious miss was allowed to stand. The Colts should have won in regulation, and would have been heavily favored

against the Browns in the Championship game. I consider the Colts 5-time World champions.

 

 

 

I agree with this about the NFL Championships being as important as Super Bowls. I would also count the 1968 NFL Championship game. Steeler fans would conviently leave out these Championships, whether the Colts, Baltimore, or whoever claimed them, because the Steelers won nothing in those days. They stunk until the early 70's. My opinion is Baltimore has 6 World Championships. There are arguments where both are true, but trust me, the Steeler's fan would tell you Indy has one, and Baltimore has two. That's is one of the points I've been trying to tell you guys, many NFL fans outside of Baltimore and Indy, won't give either of us credit for the old Championships.  I totally agree with you on the 1965 Playoff game between the Packers and the Colts. Go on You Tube, and search for the 1965 Baltimore Colts. There is a great video narrated by Chuck Thompson, and you'll see how badly to the left the field goal missed for Green Bay, yet they called it good. Should have been a 10 -7 win for the Colts, led by Tom Matte.

[The Old Crow]

to be honest I always have read that the history of a team follows it from 1 city to the next, so Balt Ravens then would have the history of The Cleveland Browns , I have no source but know I have read it a few times as teams have moved over the years

 

However I do salute Baltimore for honoring their past heros

 

 

Unlike Baltimore/Indy, when the Browns moved, the history stayed in Cleveland. There are examples where the franchises moved and took the history, and other examples where the history stayed in place. I cited a few earlier.

[The Old Crow]

I remember that wide kick but forgot year & Vs who

 

A different year in Champ game Browns whipped Colts to my dismay

 

 

I think it was Don Chandler of the Packers who missed/made that kick in the 1965 Playoff game. The other one, the Cleveland Browns whipped the Baltimore Colts 27-0 in the 1964 NFL Championship game. I'm sure many of you would like me to claim the 1964 Title Game, since the Browns moved to Baltimore, but I won't. I liked Jim Brown, Gary Collins, and Blanton Collier, but I'm a Baltimore guy, and accept this loss, and the Super Bowl 3 loss. As a Baltimore fan, you have to take the good with the bad.  

[bayone]

Unlike Baltimore/Indy, when the Browns moved, the history stayed in Cleveland. There are examples where the franchises moved and took the history, and other examples where the history stayed in place. I cited a few earlier.

 

Never Realized that,

 

Thought was uniform across the board as part of the rules establised somewhere,

 

what I gathered from the site was that All Colts history went to Indy, Old Balt Colt Fans and Many old Colts like Unitas & others were named  , (((  though  Unitas family itself split  whether this site should exist,  )))   want history to stay with Baltimore as it helped put NFL on the map & needs to be Recognized in HOF as the City that did it by winning in 58 and Lamar Hunt realized the importance of it and started the afl

 

Maybe got it wrong a bit, but looked through site fast, I cant say on forum long ,  just here and there, daily are Med needs for me or mom

 

and now going to MOM for Valentines day at assisted living  , bless here 94,,brain tumor , took 15 years to diagnose,Many  U of M Drs and NYU all failed untill my brother & I figured it out with help of my neurologist & my brother then took / evaluated  the scan that showed it ,COPD ,  4 broken ribs still healing , open skin woulds I have to instruct nurses how to properly bandage etc etc , is more important than this forum as u would I am sure agree 

[Ufansince65]

 Everyone wonders what might have happened if they had brought Unitas in earlier in that game, and benched Morrall. I don't think anyone could have had a worse game than Morrall did in that game against the Jets.

 

I don't believe at any time in NFL history has any player other than Morrall fallen from regular season MVP to complete Super Bowl goat ( 4 turnovers inside the Jets 20 in the first half !!! ). I've always been a little suspicious of this collapse, since the two leagues ( NFL, AFL ) were desperate for the financial reward that parity would bring. Shula didn't bench Morrall until it was too late, out of respect for what he did in the regular season. Morrall did partially redeem himself in Super Bowl V.

[Ufansince65]

I totally agree with you on the 1965 Playoff game between the Packers and the Colts. Go on You Tube, and search for the 1965 Baltimore Colts. There is a great video narrated by Chuck Thompson, and you'll see how badly to the left the field goal missed for Green Bay, yet they called it good. Should have been a 10 -7 win for the Colts, led by Tom Matte.

In 1965, the Colts should have been the first NFL team to win the World championship without a quarterback.

 

( Historical note: After the game, Tom Matte took the victory cake that had been prepared in advance for the Colts, and delivered it to the Packers locker room, with one adjustment: the little goal post was bent to the right ).

[T Y Goodbye]

That's fine, you can pull for who you want. I am glad you like the Maryland Terrapins. Coversely, I am a fan of the Baltimore Colts and the Baltimore Ravens. I like these team's because these are my region's teams. I notice the team's you are fans of, have quite a bit of storied history about them. Oaklahoma Football, Red Sox, Pistons, Canadiens, etc. I don't see Detroit Lions, Houston Astros, or Kansas Football on your list. This is why I'm dubious, and why I brought up the Lakers argument. Did you follow these teams because they were the hot team at the time ? You have every right to follow the team you want, but my point was the hard core regional fan would raise an eyebrow when you show up with a different hat when you live in that city. I actually respect the Steeler fan in at least one way, whatever city those people move to, they are always Steeler fans. Most in Baltimore are that way also. I was there at that last Colts home game in 1983, and I've sat through many a sorry Orioles game in the last 14 years. But I'll never follow some team just because I like Brady, Manning, or they are the hot team that won a couple of Super Bowl's recently. That is the kind of fan I am.

 

Following a team because you like a player, does not make you a fan of that team...I follow many players that I like...but I am a Colts fan first, and a football fan second. Unlike you, according to your argument, I enjoy watching the game of football, and appreciate greatness in players like Earl Campbell, Peyton Manning, Jack Lambert, Lance Alworth..and I enjoy watching them play the game. So according to your post (highlighted), you are not a football fan...you are just a fan of Baltimore teams, or Maryland teams..I'm a Pistons fan, but that doesn't mean that I didn't follow the rivalry between Magic and Bird, or enjoy watching Jordan soar through the air.

 

Yes hardcore fans raised an eyebrow, when I flew with a Penn State Charter to watch #1 Penn State take on #2 Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl. I had my Bosworth Jersey on, and people gave me grief the whole trip..And that's fine..its part of the experience..people are going to like who they like...The only way you have a point about bandwagon fans is a fan that changes teams every year of few years, is they can say they follow a winner..I like Montreal because when I was little, my mom bought me a Guy LaFleur hockey game..The Red Sox have a storied history but until the 21st century they hadn't won in over 80 years..The Terps aren't perennial contenders in Basketball, but being a fan of the Terps, doesn't mean I won't follow all the other ACC teams..Just because you choose not to follow any other teams besides in your area, is your choice, as mine is to like whomever I choose to like..Detroit is not a perennial winner..

 

I watch sports because I enjoy the games, the rivalries, the players, the combat, the strategies...but I will always be a fan of the teams that I chose to like as I grew up...

 

But yes...The Colts have histories in both Baltimore and Indy...But they are the history of the Colts, and all the Championships, all the Super Bowls are the history of the Colts. And its your right to choose to only accept the Baltimore years of the Colts, and that is fine...And, as I have said in previous posts...I don't care if the Colts are playing in Timbuktu..I'll always be a fan of the Colts and cherish their history both in Baltimore and Indy...especially since i have been part of both..

[T Y Goodbye]

A small historical fact for younger Colts fans: The D-Line for the Colts in the mid-70's ( Joe Ehrmann, John Dutton, Mike Barnes and Fred Cook ) were named the 'Sack Pack' in a contest by the fans. The players didn't really like that name; they called themselves the 'Looney Tunes'.

 Wow..I didn't know that..All I ever heard was them being called "the Sack Pack"..thanks for the info!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Logic dictates that if the trophy is in Baltimore, whether it was part of a settlement of judgement, than it is Baltimores. If it weren't true, than it would be sitting next to the 2006 Super Bowl Lombardi trophy in Indianapolis.

Your logic is flawed. It was given to the Colts who later surrendered it as a peace offering to end litigation to make the team return and shut those in Balmer up.  The last part didn't work.

[bayone]

I think it was Don Chandler of the Packers who missed/made that kick in the 1965 Playoff game. The other one, the Cleveland Browns whipped the Baltimore Colts 27-0 in the 1964 NFL Championship game. I'm sure many of you would like me to claim the 1964 Title Game, since the Browns moved to Baltimore, but I won't. I liked Jim Brown, Gary Collins, and Blanton Collier, but I'm a Baltimore guy, and accept this loss, and the Super Bowl 3 loss. As a Baltimore fan, you have to take the good with the bad.  

 

I accept those loses too, I just include all history as 1 as its only football team i have ever followed,

 

I grew up in Brooklyn and moved to Detroit in 1980 for residency and then became fully disabled in 88, but had some great years of surgical practice , changing for the better , the quality of many peoples lives, esp children with birth defects &  redoing other surgeons mistakes, so cant complain, just move forward, all those sports buying from cousin liquidation was  after my disability , basically bed ridden  and needed things that brought back happy memories as part of the recovery process, plus I was doped up for years

 

Now any extra Funds go to only 1 item 

 

Keeping this baby up so can pass down to my nephews if 1 every can learn to drive a stick

 

Bought at 1 year anniversy of mt surgical practice

 

It Drives better than it looks and then again goes over stated top speed, but I use racing fuel 109 octane

 

 

My

BABY , a  1971 280 SL Mercedes National show winner  & Juges Choice award winner

 

Click on photo for description of car & photo enlargement at national show 2005 show, & the award and other picture I gad forgot I uploaded to sites gallery

 

Its in even better condition now, 1 example of upkeep sent entire soft top frame to Maine last year to be redone and new canavas , if it needs anything , it gets it, this is only chilkd, no kids, but my nephews get alot and will inherit all i have

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/685-my-baby-1971-280-sl-mercedes-winning-national-show/

 

[The Old Crow]

This whole discussion is silly, the Colts won 2 superbowls.

 

 

Might as well throw more monkeywrenches into the gears of this 'silly' discussion:

 

As an older fan, I do not value a Super Bowl championship any different than an NFL championship from 1921 to 1966, when there

was no Super Bowl, just the Championship Game.  Either one was in reality the World Championship of professional football. Certainly the level of competition is much higher today, but the accomplishment means the same thing in history as it did in the beginning. Is the 1966 Packers NFL championship not equal to the Packers 1967 Super Bowl championship?

What we are really talking about here is how many world championships did the Colts franchise win?

Officially, they won it all in 1958, 1959, 1970 and 2006.

 

They also won the NFL Championship game in 1968, but lost the World Champiionship ( Super Bowl ) to the Jets.

Personally, I will also always know that they were cheated out of the title in 1965, when at Lambeau Field in the playoffs,

the Packers kicked a wide-right 'field goal' to put the game into overtime. In the era before instant replay and challenges,

the obvious miss was allowed to stand. The Colts should have won in regulation, and would have been heavily favored

against the Browns in the Championship game. I consider the Colts 5-time World champions.

 

 

Cmon. It's a fun discussion that might teach some of these young pups some football history.

[The Old Crow]

Never Realized that,

 

Thought was uniform across the board as part of the rules establised somewhere,

 

what I gathered from the site was that All Colts history went to Indy, Old Balt Colt Fans and Many old Colts like Unitas & others were named  , (((  though  Unitas family itself split  whether this site should exist,  )))   want history to stay with Baltimore as it helped put NFL on the map & needs to be Recognized in HOF as the City that did it by winning in 58 and Lamar Hunt realized the importance of it and started the afl

 

Maybe got it wrong a bit, but looked through site fast, I cant say on forum long ,  just here and there, daily are Med needs for me or mom

 

and now going to MOM for Valentines day at assisted living  , bless here 94,,brain tumor , took 15 years to diagnose,Many  U of M Drs and NYU all failed untill my brother & I figured it out with help of my neurologist & my brother then took / evaluated  the scan that showed it ,COPD ,  4 broken ribs still healing , open skin woulds I have to instruct nurses how to properly bandage etc etc , is more important than this forum as u would I am sure agree 

 

Been there with similar family issues. Prayers go out to your family, and wish the best for you.

[bayone]

Been there with similar family issues. Prayers go out to your family, and wish the best for you.

 

Much appreciated , be easier if I had less Drs than her to  see, but u accept what life handed u or u stay down and beaten

[The Old Crow]

In 1965, the Colts should have been the first NFL team to win the World championship without a quarterback.

 

( Historical note: After the game, Tom Matte took the victory cake that had been prepared in advance for the Colts, and delivered it to the Packers locker room, with one adjustment: the little goal post was bent to the right ).

 

 

Did not know that, very funny. I see Matte alot in Baltimore, I'll have to ask him about that story. I showed the kck to my boss who is a Packer's fan. Naturally, he made excuses that it was really good. Because of that game, they increased the height of the goal posts.

[The Old Crow]

I accept those loses too, I just include all history as 1 as its only football team i have ever followed,

 

I grew up in Brooklyn and moved to Detroit in 1980 for residency and then became fully disabled in 88, but had some great years of surgical practice , changing for the better , the quality of many peoples lives, esp children with birth defects &  redoing other surgeons mistakes, so cant complain, just move forward, all those sports buying from cousin liquidation was  after my disability , basically bed ridden  and needed things that brought back happy memories as part of the recovery process, plus I was doped up for years

 

Now any extra Funds go to only 1 item 

 

Keeping this baby up so can pass down to my nephews if 1 every can learn to drive a stick

 

Bought at 1 year anniversy of mt surgical practice

 

It Drives better than it looks and then again goes over stated top speed, but I use racing fuel 109 octane

 

 

My

BABY , a  1971 280 SL Mercedes National show winner  & Juges Choice award winner

 

Click on photo for description of car & photo enlargement at national show 2005 show, & the award and other picture I gad forgot I uploaded to sites gallery

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing like a good German car.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Never Realized that,

 

Thought was uniform across the board as part of the rules establised somewhere,

 

what I gathered from the site was that All Colts history went to Indy, Old Balt Colt Fans and Many old Colts like Unitas & others were named  , (((  though  Unitas family itself split  whether this site should exist,  )))   want history to stay with Baltimore as it helped put NFL on the map & needs to be Recognized in HOF as the City that did it by winning in 58 and Lamar Hunt realized the importance of it and started the afl

 

Maybe got it wrong a bit, but looked through site fast, I cant say on forum long ,  just here and there, daily are Med needs for me or mom

 

and now going to MOM for Valentines day at assisted living  , bless here 94,,brain tumor , took 15 years to diagnose,Many  U of M Drs and NYU all failed untill my brother & I figured it out with help of my neurologist & my brother then took / evaluated  the scan that showed it ,COPD ,  4 broken ribs still healing , open skin woulds I have to instruct nurses how to properly bandage etc etc , is more important than this forum as u would I am sure agree 

 

Barry, some teams moved and brought logo, colors, and history with them.  Examples?  L.A. Rams, Arizona Cardinals, and Oakland Raiders (L.A. stint).  Some teams moved and brought the team history, but changed logos, colors  and name like the Houtson Oilers to Tennessee Titans.  Other teams moved and relinquished the logo, colors, and team history.  Example- Baltimore Ravens were the Brown, but left everything in Cleveland and essentially became the NFL expansion team... with an established NFL roster.  Cleveland kept the Browns name, colors/history, but were truly the expansion team by any means except definition.

 

Most teams in most sports that move want to keep their identity, and their history is part of their identity. Baltimore thinks they own it, and the team. The state of Maryland even passed bills in their House and Senate flat out giving ownership to the City of Baltimore. Except the true owner had already packed up and split before the State troopers could force them back,  So the bitter fans are still trying to steal the clubs history for themselves.  Since a middle school child I have been a Colts fan. Baltimore, Indy, or the next metro area they may reside in.  Same colors, logo, and name.  I know what was done where and by whom, but it was all under the employment of the Colts franchise, no matter the location.

 

I'm always going to feel that way.

[The Old Crow]

Your logic is flawed. It was given to the Colts who later surrendered it as a peace offering to end litigation to make the team return and shut those in Balmer up.  The last part didn't work.

 

 

I guess it's up to the way you interpret it. You've made some great points, but I think I've made some compelling arguments on the other side of the coin. It's hard to claim a trophy for your city, when it's in another city. You can call it a judgement, settlement, or peace offering, but one thing that it is for sure, is unprecedented. It should be unprecented, because the history of the Baltimore Colts was paramount to building the NFL. The new Indianapolis Colts have carved out their own history , led by Peyton Manning, and created another new era in NFL history.

[The Old Crow]

 Everyone wonders what might have happened if they had brought Unitas in earlier in that game, and benched Morrall. I don't think anyone could have had a worse game than Morrall did in that game against the Jets.

 

I don't believe at any time in NFL history has any player other than Morrall fallen from regular season MVP to complete Super Bowl goat ( 4 turnovers inside the Jets 20 in the first half !!! ). I've always been a little suspicious of this collapse, since the two leagues ( NFL, AFL ) were desperate for the financial reward that parity would bring. Shula didn't bench Morrall until it was too late, out of respect for what he did in the regular season. Morrall did partially redeem himself in Super Bowl V.

 

 

Super Bowl 3, was one of the strnagest games in history. Bubba Smith swears it was rigged, but I won't go that far. In fairness, like you said, Morrall was MVP in 1968, so Shula gave him every benefit of the doubt. It really should have been 14-0 Baltimore, in the first quarter. I could see Shula booting Morrall at least by halftime, when they were down 10-0. Unitas, who did throw one interception, would have more time to lead a comeback. I still say those 13-1 Colts would have beaten the Jets 9 out of 10 times, but unfortunately, that one time was on that horrible day.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I guess it's up to the way you interpret it. You've made some great points, but I think I've made some compelling arguments on the other side of the coin. It's hard to claim a trophy for your city, when it's in another city. You can call it a judgement, settlement, or peace offering, but one thing that it is for sure, is unprecedented. It should be unprecented, because the history of the Baltimore Colts was paramount to building the NFL. The new Indianapolis Colts have carved out their own history , led by Peyton Manning, and created another new era in NFL history.

Balmer has their football history, and Indy has theirs.  But the Colts have a history that involves both cities.  This is fact.

[The Old Crow]

Barry, some teams moved and brought logo, colors, and history with them.  Examples?  L.A. Rams, Arizona Cardinals, and Oakland Raiders (L.A. stint).  Some teams moved and brought the team history, but changed logos, colors  and name like the Houtson Oilers to Tennessee Titans.  Other teams moved and relinquished the logo, colors, and team history.  Example- Baltimore Ravens were the Brown, but left everything in Cleveland and essentially became the NFL expansion team... with an established NFL roster.  Cleveland kept the Browns name, colors/history, but were truly the expansion team by any means except definition.

 

Most teams in most sports that move want to keep their identity, and their history is part of their identity. Baltimore thinks they own it, and the team. The state of Maryland even passed bills in their House and Senate flat out giving ownership to the City of Baltimore. Except the true owner had already packed up and split before the State troopers could force them back,  So the bitter fans are still trying to steal the clubs history for themselves.  Since a middle school child I have been a Colts fan. Baltimore, Indy, or the next metro area they may reside in.  Same colors, logo, and name.  I know what was done where and by whom, but it was all under the employment of the Colts franchise, no matter the location.

 

I'm always going to feel that way.

 

 

Others feel differently. It really comes down to doing the right thing. Moves happen, we know that. Indy wanted a team, Baltimore wanted a team, etc. I don't like team relocations, but there are ways to better soften a blow for the city that has lost a team, rather than some of the things that have taken place in the past. There are common sense answers to all of these questions, but the NFL and Hall of Fame will not address them.

[The Old Crow]

Balmer has their football history, and Indy has theirs.  But the Colts have a history that involves both cities.  This is fact.

 

 

That is definately a fact. I think we also all like the colors and logos. I love the Raven's colors and log0s, but unlike the Steeler's logos, I can never say I dislike the Colts uniforms. The Indy Colt uniforms seem a much more purple/blue than the old Colt uniforms.

[The Old Crow]

Following a team because you like a player, does not make you a fan of that team...I follow many players that I like...but I am a Colts fan first, and a football fan second. Unlike you, according to your argument, I enjoy watching the game of football, and appreciate greatness in players like Earl Campbell, Peyton Manning, Jack Lambert, Lance Alworth..and I enjoy watching them play the game. So according to your post (highlighted), you are not a football fan...you are just a fan of Baltimore teams, or Maryland teams..I'm a Pistons fan, but that doesn't mean that I didn't follow the rivalry between Magic and Bird, or enjoy watching Jordan soar through the air.

 

Yes hardcore fans raised an eyebrow, when I flew with a Penn State Charter to watch #1 Penn State take on #2 Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl. I had my Bosworth Jersey on, and people gave me grief the whole trip..And that's fine..its part of the experience..people are going to like who they like...The only way you have a point about bandwagon fans is a fan that changes teams every year of few years, is they can say they follow a winner..I like Montreal because when I was little, my mom bought me a Guy LaFleur hockey game..The Red Sox have a storied history but until the 21st century they hadn't won in over 80 years..The Terps aren't perennial contenders in Basketball, but being a fan of the Terps, doesn't mean I won't follow all the other ACC teams..Just because you choose not to follow any other teams besides in your area, is your choice, as mine is to like whomever I choose to like..Detroit is not a perennial winner..

 

I watch sports because I enjoy the games, the rivalries, the players, the combat, the strategies...but I will always be a fan of the teams that I chose to like as I grew up...

 

But yes...The Colts have histories in both Baltimore and Indy...But they are the history of the Colts, and all the Championships, all the Super Bowls are the history of the Colts. And its your right to choose to only accept the Baltimore years of the Colts, and that is fine...And, as I have said in previous posts...I don't care if the Colts are playing in Timbuktu..I'll always be a fan of the Colts and cherish their history both in Baltimore and Indy...especially since i have been part of both..

 

 

Those Penn State fans were probably also Steeler fans. No wonder they gave you grief. You sound like a all around sports fan who likes certain teams, but you've met some of the people I'm talking about. The rebel fan in Indy, who wants to be different, so he dons a Texans jersey for attention. I see some fans in baltimore who are Brady and New England fans because they had won 3 out of 4 Super Bowls. These are mostly young kids, that don't understand history, or listen to their father's stories about the old days. LOL  I understand where you're coming from, but it's just alien to me. Doesn't make it wrong, just different.

[coltsfan_nyc]

I can't wait for this thread to die. Everytime I see it, I think of that stupid night, LOL! Oh crap, I just bounced it to the top of the forum again, SMH!

[The Old Crow]

I can't wait for this thread to die. Everytime I see it, I think of that stupid night, LOL! Oh crap, I just bounced it to the top of the forum again, SMH!

 

 

Sounds like you were a victim of a drunken Jets fan , or something. Did you get in a fistfight with a guy in a Joe Willy Namath jersey ? LOL

[coltsfan_nyc]

Sounds like you were a victim of a drunken Jets fan , or something. Did you get in a fistfight with a guy in a Joe Willy Namath jersey ? LOL

He wasn't wearing a jersey, I'm really not sure what team he is a fan of, he was some tag along. A friend of a friend of a friend kind of deal if that makes sense, who just happen to be a major D. BAG if you know what I mean.

[Ufansince65]

Cmon. It's a fun discussion that might teach some of these young pups some football history.

Well here you go: The greatest personality in the history of the Colts, if not all of football, was defensive lineman Artie Donovan.

He played with the Colts in the 50s and 60s. He had a million stories to tell, but my favorite was a game the Colts played in San

Francisco at Kezar Stadium in 1957. It was a Sunday afternoon game, but the night before the Barnum & Bailey circus had performed

on the field. In those days, the defensive linemen were allowed to use the head slap, and when Artie trotted out onto the field, he

found something left on the field by the elephants he could use with the head slap. God was not merciful to the 49er O-line that day.

[bayone]

Well here you go: The greatest personality in the history of the Colts, if not all of football, was defensive lineman Artie Donovan.

He played with the Colts in the 50s and 60s. He had a million stories to tell, but my favorite was a game the Colts played in San

Francisco at Kezar Stadium in 1957. It was a Sunday afternoon game, but the night before the Barnum & Bailey circus had performed

on the field. In those days, the defensive linemen were allowed to use the head slap, and when Artie trotted out onto the field, he

found something left on the field by the elephants he could use with the head slap. God was not merciful to the 49er O-line that day.

 

Have his 52  ((  as well as later years )) rookie card as a dallas texan , they became colts next year in Balt

 

Its slabbed & graded, Its Gorgeoius unlike a topps , its by Bowman , and the early 50's they made small and large versions

 

I have the large ones,

 

These werent picture but mnore like stunning paintings, Have F Gino Marchettis Rookie from that same year to as Dalass texan

[The Old Crow]

Well here you go: The greatest personality in the history of the Colts, if not all of football, was defensive lineman Artie Donovan.

He played with the Colts in the 50s and 60s. He had a million stories to tell, but my favorite was a game the Colts played in San

Francisco at Kezar Stadium in 1957. It was a Sunday afternoon game, but the night before the Barnum & Bailey circus had performed

on the field. In those days, the defensive linemen were allowed to use the head slap, and when Artie trotted out onto the field, he

found something left on the field by the elephants he could use with the head slap. God was not merciful to the 49er O-line that day.

 

 

A funny man. I used to work at a place called the Bowman Restaurant in Baltimore County, and Art was there for an old radio show on WCBM called Corral of the Colts. This was probably 1982/1983 because Mike Pagel and Frank Kush were there also. Artie's old buddy was legendary Baltimore sportscaster, Charley Eckmann, although not on this show, was on the old Mayhem on 33rd St TV Show. That show went back to the time when the Colts were in the old NFL Coastal Division, with the Rams and 49'ers.

[The Old Crow]

He wasn't wearing a jersey, I'm really not sure what team he is a fan of, he was some tag along. A friend of a friend of a friend kind of deal if that makes sense, who just happen to be a major D. BAG if you know what I mean.

 

 

Probably the same Jets fan that thought the Johnny Unitas statue was Bart Starr ! I told him, " Fat,Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life son." LOL

[bayone]

A funny man. I used to work at a place called the Bowman Restaurant in Baltimore County, and Art was there for an old radio show on WCBM called Corral of the Colts. This was probably 1982/1983 because Mike Pagel and Frank Kush were there also. Artie's old buddy was legendary Baltimore sportscaster, Charley Eckmann, although not on this show, was on the old Mayhem on 33rd St TV Show. That show went back to the time when the Colts were in the old NFL Coastal Division, with the Rams and 49'ers.

 

 Art   &  Peyton each did a separate forward for the book  Johnny Unitas, Americas QB, Good Book BTW

 

have a great night all

[hawkeyes]

Cleveland got a team back in three years along with logos, records, colors, hall of famers, and Championships. Baltimore lost a team, lost records, logos, etc, and lost out to two mediocre NFL cities in expansion, Jacksonville and Charlotte. The Irsays did not support an expansion franchise for Baltimore, we had to wait twelve years, and Tagiabue told us to build a museum. I'm not saying what Baltimore or Modell did was right, quite the contrary, but don't tell me Cleveland had it harder than Baltimore ! HAH-HAH

 

I never said Cleveland had it tougher - my comments along with the original were only made to say that the Ravens are the Browns where as the Colts are the Colts.

[GoColts8818]

Please go to www.coltsheritage.com    I think it explains the Baltimore position very well, plus if you are a Colts fan, you'll get a kick out of it. By the way, the Old Baltimore Colts fight song, is the current Raven's Fight with different lyrics. If you are on there, and want to sign the petition, please feel free to do so. One other thing, this isn't my web site, beleive me, but I like it , of course .

I am still waiting for you to show me where on Johnny U's plague that it says Indianapolis Colts?  This whole idea that the NFL has tried to erase the Baltimore Colts from the history books is made up. 

 

Honestly it keeps going back to the same issue you guys want to be the victim and have people feel bad for you.  Well there was a time that people felt bad for you even people in Indianapolis felt bad for the people in Baltimore.  Then you got a new team a wonderful new team and people went well Baltimore got exactly what they said they wanted, which at the time was we just want pro-football back in Baltimore.  Now that's not good enough for you.  Now it's we want the team name, colors, ad history back.  If you were to get that I am betting the next line would be oh Indianapolis took football away from Baltimore for 12 years.  At some point people just stop feeling bad for you and when you have a team that has won two Super Bowls for your city you are at that point. 

 

Honestly, you came here complaining trying to take ownership of something you don't own which is the Colts team history.  Sorry it's been proven in courts that you don't own the team history.  Case in point the legal action that happened after the move.  The first attempt was Baltimore sued to try to have the Colts returned to Indianapolis and promptly had the case thrown out.  Then they tried to get the US Congress to pass laws that would return them to Baltimore and they were defeated.  So they tried the courts again this time just wanting the team, colors, and history returned to Indianapolis.  Bob Irsay tired of spending money on lawyers to fight lawsuits reached a settlement with the city of Baltimore over the move.  The terms of that settlement was that the Colts history, name, and colors would stay with the Colts franchise in Indianapolis and that Baltimore would get the Super Bowl V trophy and the Indianapolis Colts would endorse a new franchise in Baltimore.  The last part was important because the way the NFL works is that owners have rights to certain markets when they own a franchise.  Even after the move Bob Irsay still had the rights to the Baltimore market and in fact used those rights to block a USFL team from playing there the year following the Colts move.  I will freely admit it was a total jerk move on Bob Irsay's part and re-enforces what even Indianapolis fans have said about Bob Irsay the man is the jerk.  It's one thing I think all Colts fans of any generation can agree on.  So by agreeing to endorse a new team in Baltimore Bob Irsay was more or less agreeing to not block a pro-team playing in Baltimore again.  So Baltimore took the deal.  Meaning it was a settled case at that point.  That's key because the whole idea of a settlement is that both sides agree to end legal action at that point and you can't back later and go you know what now we want more. 

 

From that point forward the Colts franchise has frankly been very accommodating of the Baltimore franchise that turned out to be the Ravens.  Jim Irsay kept his word and endorsed the move of the Browns to Baltimore and at the time gave a very public interview in Indianapolis where he said he was happy Baltimore was getting a team again and talked glowingly about the people in Baltimore and how they deserved to have football again and how Baltimore was a great town.  On top of that, the city of Indianapolis has displayed NO banners dating back to the days in Baltimore.  They do not honor the Hall of Famers of the Baltimore Colts or Ring of Honor Colts, or retired numbers in any official way at the stadium.  They only place they exist is in the Colts record books and whenever they are refereed it is almost refereed with the fact they played in Baltimore before it.  From there Indianapolis nor Jim Irsay have ever stood in the way of Baltimore doing anything to honor the old Colts in Baltimore short of Baltimore violating the Colts copy right on the team name and colors.  Beyond that no one has ever tried to stop Baltimore from having ex Colts in their Ring of Honor, having a statue of a guy with the Colts horse shoe on the side of his head in front of the stadium, having the Colts Marching band preform before they reformed into the Marching Ravens (which was their own choice), or anything else the city of Baltimore has wanted to do to honor their past history.  In fact people in Indianapolis encourage people in Baltimore to do so because they know what happened in their city means something to them.  Heck the Colts don't even go out of their way to recognize former Baltimore Colts players unless they approach the team first like Raymond Berry did.  So short of just letting Baltimore have their team history I think the Colts have done EVERYTHING in their power to let Baltimore celebrate whatever they would like to celebrate. 

 

Now it's up to the people in Baltimore to recognize they don't own this history and they aren't the only ones who have the exclusive rights to be proud of it.  No one is stopping them from celebrating it on their end.  No one is trying to pretend like the Baltimore Colts never existed and no one tries to pass off what happened in Baltimore like it happened in Indianapolis. 

 

With that said Colts fans do recognize the whole franchise history and that includes the move.  Just like Colts fans would have loved it Peyton Manning played his whole career in Indianapolis he didn't, so Colts fans have to share him with Broncos fans.  Guess what you have to share the Colts with Indianapolis and just like how Peyton Manning's career stats will reflect what he did in both Indianapolis and Denver the Colts official team history is going to reflect what happened in both Indianapolis and Baltimore.  There is nothing wrong with recognizing the two eras which frankly people do just like people are going to look at Peyton's career in Indy and his career in Denver at times but when you talk about his career numbers it's going to reflect both cities. 

 

With that said I'll freely admit Super Bowl XLI means more to me than Super V means to me just because I lived threw Super Bowl XLI and I went to see that team in person.  I always looked at Super Bowl V as well it's cool the Colts won that one I would just like to experience one in my life time.  I think that's true of any fan that compares a Super Bowl win in person vs. a Super Bowl they didn't see.  Again, back to my Packers example I would be willing to bet if someone lived threw the last Super Bowl win but not the first three that the last one holds a special place in their heart more so than the first three just because they didn't get to experience them.  I take great pride in what the Colts have accomplished as a franchise but I am more than willing to admit it didn't all happen in Indianapolis and just because I take pride in it doesn't mean I try to pretend like it all happened in my city.  You are talking to someone who had to do a book report when he was little on his hero and did it on Johnny U because he was a Colt.  Again, that just speaks to the point you don't have to live in a city of a team to be a fan of it.  So I am sorry I don't think you have the right to come in and tell people in Indianapolis just because they aren't from Baltimore they don't have a right to celebrate the whole Colts history.  A lot of people have taken the time to learn the Baltimore history of the team and it does mean something to us.  With that said it has also made us understand why it means something to Baltimore which is why most people in Indianapolis have zero issue with the city of Baltimore celebrating the old Baltimore Colts. 

[GoColts8818]

You don't understand Baltimore. We are not New York. To us, there were two football teams, the Baltimore Colts, twelve year gap, Baltimore Ravens. Two great teams, two of the greatest football histories and eras ever. To us, it is one history in one city. If the Indy fan, or New York fan wants to come to the Sports Legends Museum, which is next to Camden Yards, you'll understand maybe what I can't put into words. The Indy years have been great, but to the Indy fan. If I'm a Brookyn Dodger fan, I'm following the Mets, and not following them out to LA. To us, it is two legacies, one city, one history.

You know how entitled that makes you sound? You are or more less saying Baltimore fans are better fans than other teams and love our teams more than other towns.  Trust me it's not the case.  Frankly if anyone has dibs on that title it's Green Bay.  With that said just because Baltimore loved their Colts doesn't mean they own the Colts history.  You don't.  As much as you might want too you don't.  While you have every right to celebrate what you witnessed you don't own the rights to it and have the right to say who else can and can not celebrate that history. 

[The Old Crow]

I never said Cleveland had it tougher - my comments along with the original were only made to say that the Ravens are the Browns where as the Colts are the Colts.

 

 

 

How can the Ravens be the Browns , when there is a Cleveland Browns team ? The Baltimore Colts are different than the Indy Colts.

[Dustin]

The Baltimore Colts are different than the Indy Colts.

 

No they're not. Not really.

[GoColts8818]

to be honest I always have read that the history of a team follows it from 1 city to the next, so Balt Ravens then would have the history of The Cleveland Browns , I have no source but know I have read it a few times as teams have moved over the years

 

However I do salute Baltimore for honoring their past heros

In the Browns case it was different because part of the settlement that let the Browns move to Baltimore evolved leaving the team history, colors, and what not behind.  Baltimore had a different settlement when the Colts moved though which is why the Colts team name, history, and colors went with them.  Other than the players and front office personal the Ravens were treated like an expansion team for the most part.