Would Polian have done this trade?

[Fatboyslim11]

I know he also brought in guys like Cota, Bennett, an Bratzke some of those might have been after 98 and in 99 but those are other players he brought in as well with two of them Bennett and Cota having ties to Polian at his old stomping grounds.

Superman was asking for an apples to apples comparison for one trade in the first year. Your response is all over the map. Only bringing in a 5 or 6 players over a 13 year period to help your team in areas that were not the most deficient (O and D lines) is not a ringing endorsement.

[GoColts8818]

Superman was asking for an apples to apples comparison for one trade in the first year. Your response is all over the map. Only bringing in a 5 or 6 players over a 13 year period to help your team in areas that were not the most deficient (O and D lines) is not a ringing endorsement.

I gave you one Poole a cornerback traded from the Panthers to the Colts in 1998 for a third round pick that's pretty darn close to what the Colts did today. I was building on this thought as he talked about Polian bringing in other players from his old team like Grigson is doing now. I am sorry that you don't like the idea that Polian would never make moves like Grigson is doing is being proven false.

[Fatboyslim11]

Really funny that o-line produced the League's leading rusher during Edge's first two years here. That line also produced a 1,000 yard back every year but one from 98 to 07 and that one year was the year Edge was coming off major knee surgery. That line lead us to a Super Bowl win in 2006 and also had one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL and no not all of that was Manning's release. If that isn't as good as any line in the NFL it's pretty darn good anyway you want to cut it. Again if you want to be objective about this then you have to look at the results and from 98 to 07 it's hard to find an o-line that was much better than the Colts and that means accepting that rather than trying to make excuses for it because it doesn't fit your argument. From 08 to 11 yes it was bad and Polian takes the blame for that as well but three years doesn't erase what happened during the first 10.

Now we are back to the soft argument... A soft team doesn't go into Baltimore and win on the road in the playoffs and the come back from down 21 points on the Pats at half-time in the AFCCG and then beat the Bears physically in the rain. Did the Colts have playoff let downs? Yes but I would be real careful about calling them soft.

Who, on the O line, with the exception of Saturday (and Glenn who wasn't drafted by Polian), ever made all pro? Also, we had more negative yard runs than any line in the NFL. The fact that the RBs managed to do ok on occasions is more a testament to them than the lines skills.

Many fans, coaches, pundits, NFL people, etc have called our line soft over the years. Look at the tapes from 1998 to 2011, our linemen consistently get blown back into the backfield on running plays.

[GoColts8818]

Who, on the O line, with the exception of Saturday (and Glenn who wasn't drafted by Polian), ever made all pro? Also, we had more negative yard runs than any line in the NFL. The fact that the RBs managed to do ok on occasions is more a testament to them than the lines skills.

Many fans, coaches, pundits, NFL people, etc have called our line soft over the years. Look at the tapes from 1998 to 2011, our linemen consistently get blown back into the backfield on running plays.

So we can't count the best guy he found and we are looking at this objectively? That's not being objective that's called trying to twist the facts to support your argument. Also you don't have to be an all-pro to be a good player. Diem played here for how long? You don't play as long as he did in the NFL and be bad at your job. Don't people point to Lilja being released as one of the down falls of the line along with letting Jake Scott walk? So I guess those only count as good players when talking about the mistakes Polian made with them not when they can be used to support him. That's not counting a guy like Charlie Johnson was was steal for a sixth round pick and DeMulling who was also a solid player that Polian brought in.

Four different RBs having a 1000 yards every year but one from 98 - 07 and leading the league in rushing twice is not doing "ok on occasions". Brown and Addai's 100 yard games from 08 threw 11 are doing ok on occasions. Like I keep saying there is no denying it the line has been an issue since 08 and I've been saying that since then even when others wanted to blame the running backs but like I said before what happened in the last three years doesn't mean the last 10 years before that didn't happen.

Again a soft team doesn't do what the Colts did in the 2006 playoffs. Colts had let downs no question about that but again I would be careful about calling them soft. You don't win as often as they did during the Manning era and be soft even if they didn't have as much post season success as people would have liked.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Just adding this for reference purposes...

Trades during Polian's first 5 years. This was taken from the 2009 Media guide, and it lists the player that was taken with the draft picks that were traded.

1997

• 12/22 D3-98 (62) to Carolina for BILL POLIAN, Car-DE-CHUCK WILEY.
  

.

1998

• 2/17 QB-JIM HARBAUGH, D4-98 (93) to Baltimore for D3-98 (71), D4-98 (103). Colts-WR-E.G. GREEN. Ravens traded D4-98
  
• 3/26 QB-PAUL JUSTIN to Cincinnati for D5-98 (135). Colts-LB ANTONY JORDAN.
  
• 4/19 D4-98 (103-Bal.), D5-98 (124), D6-98 (154) to Baltimore for D4-98 (93-Ind.), Colts-OG-STEVE McKINNEY. Bal-DTCHASE MARTIN, LB-RON ROGERS, dealt D4-98 (103).
  
• 7/23 D2-99 (34) to Carolina for DB-TYRONE POOLE. Car-TCHRIS TERRY.
  
• 8/30 D5-99 (136) to Pittsburgh for DL-STEVEN CONLEY. Pit-TEJERAME TUMAN.
  
• 8/30 TE-SCOTT SLUTZKER to New Orleans for LB-ANDRE ROYAL.
  

1999 (2)

• 4/15 RB-MARSHALL FAULK to St. Louis for D2-99 (36), D5-99 (138). Colts-LB-MIKE PETERSON, DE-BRAD SCIOLI.
  
• 4/18 D4-99 (99), D6-99 (171) to San Francisco for D4-99 (96). Colts-DB-PAUL MIRANDA. S.F.-DB-ANTHONY PARKER, WR-TAI STREETS.
  

2000

• 4/16 D5-00 (158), D6-00 (195) to New Orleans for D5-00 (138). Colts-OG-MATT JOHNSON. N.O.-TE-AUSTIN WHEATLEY, DB-MICHAEL HAWTHORNE.
  
• 4/16 D6-01 (184) to Oakland for D7-00 (238). Colts-DB RODREGIS BROOKS. Oak-DT-CHRIS COOPER.
  
• 4/21 LB-SPENCER REID to Carolina for RB-FRED LANE.
  
• 8/22 P-JOHN BAKER to St. Louis for D6-02 (204). Colts-RB BRIAN ALLEN.
  

2001 (2)

• 4/21 D1-01 (22) to N.Y. Giants for D1-01 (30), D3-01 (91), D6-01 (193). Colts-WR-REGGIE WAYNE, DB-CORY BIRD, DB JASON DOERING. NYG-DB-WILL ALLEN.
  
• 4/21 D2-01 (52), D3-01 (81) to Dallas for D2-01 (37). Colts-DB IDREES BASHIR. Dallas dealt picks.
  

2002 (4)

• 4/15 WR-TERRENCE WILKINS to St. Louis for D6-02 (183). Colts-DB-JAMES LEWIS.
  
• 4/19 D5-02 (146) to Seattle for QB-BROCK HUARD. Seahawks-DT-ROCKY BERNARD.
  
• 9/ 1 D7-03 (239) to New Orleans for RB-RICKY WILLIAMS. New Orleans dealt pick.
  
• 9/24 D7-04 (228) to Tampa Bay for DB-DAVID GIBSON. TB-RBCASEY CRAMER.
  

So Polian traded the 1999 2nd round pick for Tyrone Poole.

Poole was a 22nd pick in the 1st round in the 1995 draft, so 1998 was his 4th year.

Davis was a 25th pick in the 1st round in the 2009 draft. so 2012 will be his 4th year.

Davis had more int's in his first 3 years, 9 to 5.

Poole had more tackles in his first 3 years 164 to 127

Poole had more forced fumbles 4 to 1, and recovers 3 to 0

Considering the shift the NFL has taken to more of a passing league the #'s appear to level out.

[KarlKuffs]

Polian would've had Buddy Jackson start at cb before he ever would have pulled off a trade like this.

[Superman]

Polian would've had Buddy Jackson start at cb before he ever would have pulled off a trade like this.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-19679228.html

[polians_pundit]

If bill and chris were still around they would of drafted jenkins instead of fleener and this wouldnt be any issue. They might be looking for o line help from some of the other teams. Seattle dropped the deuce, I bet they would be picking it up.

[KarlKuffs]

http://www.highbeam....1-19679228.html

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Jacob_Lacey

http://msn.foxsports...=david-caldwell

Like I said, Bill Polian was much more likely to thrust an undertalented UDFA into a starting DB role rather than trade for a player that might address the need in a satisfactory manner.

[Fx Stryker]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Jacob_Lacey

http://msn.foxsports...=david-caldwell

He putting it in an apples to apples comparison. Polian made trades in the rebuilding year to make the team better. Just like this trade for Davis.

[FireJimCaldwell]

He putting it in an apples to apples comparison. Polian made trades in the rebuilding year to make the team better. Just like this trade for Davis.

Good luck finding a translator to get that across.

[KarlKuffs]

He putting it in an apples to apples comparison. Polian made trades in the rebuilding year to make the team better. Just like this trade for Davis.

Im putting it in an apples to apples comparison too. The comparison is how Polian would address a blatant area of need as compared to how Grigson would.

And "rebuilding" is a matter of opinion. Just because you think this is a rebuilding year doesn't mean anyone in the Colts front office does. And this year has yet to play out, so you don't know WHAT label to put on it yet. For all we know, we'll go 9-7 and sneak into the playoffs this year.

[Fx Stryker]

Good luck finding a translator to get that across.

I might have the Oxford Anti-Polian Dictionary around here somewhere.

Im putting it in an apples to apples comparison too. The comparison is how Polian would address a blatant area of need as compared to how Grigson would.

And "rebuilding" is a matter of opinion. Just because you think this is a rebuilding year doesn't mean anyone in the Colts front office does. And this year has yet to play out, so you don't know WHAT label to put on it yet. For all we know, we'll go 9-7 and sneak into the playoffs this year.

Polian traded a draft pick for a corner in his first year as GM. Grigson made a trade with a draft pick for a corner too.

Let's see what Grigson does in his 10th/11th year. Then say something.

That's if he is good enough to stay around.

[KarlKuffs]

Good luck finding a translator to get that across.

Aww.....did I hurt your feelings, little guy? And you're getting back at me by taking lame little jabs in threads that I post in.

Either refute my point, or shut the F up.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I might have the Oxford Anti-Polian Dictionary around here somewhere.

That should work.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Aww.....did I hurt your feelings, little guy? And you're getting back at me by taking lame little jabs in threads that I post in.

Either refute my point, or shut the F up.

Year 1, Polian made a similar trade as Grigson....

Good luck disputing that fact.

[GoColts8818]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Jacob_Lacey

http://msn.foxsports...=david-caldwell

Like I said, Bill Polian was much more likely to thrust an undertalented UDFA into a starting DB role rather than trade for a player that might address the need in a satisfactory manner.

So you counter his point of his showing you that Polian pulled off a trade almost exactly like this by throwing out that he signed undrafted free agents as well. You said that Polian would never have made a trade like this. That has been proven false more than one time in this thread. You are right he signed some undrafted free agents to play but that doesn't change the fact he made almost the exact same trade his first year here as well. Look I can understand if people don't like Polian but the blind hating of him is getting a little old.

Polian towards the end was in a very different spot than Grigson is now. He had a 100 million dollar QB on the roster and was trying to tweak what was a Super Bowl contending team with several other huge contracts. Grigson is starting over and rebuilding the roster from the ground up not unlike what Polian was doing when he first got here. Frankly if you look at what both of them did/are doing when they first got here it's almost the exact same. Draft a bunch of young offensive players to build around your rookie QB and trade for players and sign free agents to fill out the defense. Even making almost the exact same trade for a CB if anything Polian made a slightly better trade because he only gave up a third rounder for the corner he got even though it's been shown they have put up pretty close to the same kind of numbers to this point in their careers. So if you want to compare apples to apples then let's look at what both men did at the same points of their GM careers not try to twist something to take another shot at Polian.

The problem is all the young guys Polian took and developed demanded more money than their rookie contracts so as he resigned them it caused us to lean more and more on less talented players at other positions till it got too one sided at the end. So that's what happened towards the end. Polian has proven more than once he was willing to make a trade or sign a free agent if he felt like it made sense. The thing was he was very careful about it because he knows most players that are on the market for free agency or trades are there because they have some kinda risk with them. This isn't like baseball where teams have fire sales to dump salaries or will give you star players for prospects in return. This Davis deal is no slam dunk by any means. The reason he was on the market is to this point in his career he has not played up to his talent level and there are some very real concerns about his work ethic that is not something easy to fix with a player especially if they have gotten where they are based on talent alone which has been suggest about Davis. This could blow up in the Colts faces much like Corey Simon did even though he was a free agent and not a trade. If that's the case I really doubt you are going to see people beating their chest and trying to take one last dig at Polian which let's be honest is what this thread is about.

[Superman]

So you counter his point of his showing you that Polian pulled off a trade almost exactly like this by throwing out that he signed undrafted free agents as well. You said that Polian would never have made a trade like this. That has been proven false more than one time in this thread. You are right he signed some undrafted free agents to play but that doesn't change the fact he made almost the exact same trade his first year here as well.

How many undrafted free agents has Grigson added already?

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/COLTS-ADD-17-PLAYERS-INCLUDING-15-UNDRAFTED-FREE-AGENTS/079255ff-a634-4eb5-b1e2-bcd82e7a8b0c

How many of them are still on the roster right now?

I just don't get it. The question is "would Polian have done a trade like this?" And the answer is unreservedly YES, considering the fact that he did the exact same trade under the exact same circumstances in his first year as GM here. That says nothing about whether he was a good GM or not, and it says nothing of the state he left this team in. Polian haters will still have plenty to hang their argument on, even if they admit that Polian traded for Tyrone Poole in his first season as GM.

[GoColts8818]

How many undrafted free agents has Grigson added already?

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/COLTS-ADD-17-PLAYERS-INCLUDING-15-UNDRAFTED-FREE-AGENTS/079255ff-a634-4eb5-b1e2-bcd82e7a8b0c

How many of them are still on the roster right now?

I just don't get it. The question is "would Polian have done a trade like this?" And the answer is unreservedly YES, considering the fact that he did the exact same trade under the exact same circumstances in his first year as GM here. That says nothing about whether he was a good GM or not, and it says nothing of the state he left this team in. Polian haters will still have plenty to hang their argument on, even if they admit that Polian traded for Tyrone Poole in his first season as GM.

I was talking down the road during the polian era in reference to the Caldwell and Lacey signings not his first year here.

[Superman]

I was talking down the road during the polian era in reference to the Caldwell and Lacey signings not his first year here.

Yeah I know. I'm just saying, not only did Bill Polian make trades, but Ryan Grigson signs UDFAs. People are making like the two strategies are mutually exclusive.

[BrentMc11]

If bill and chris were still around they would of drafted jenkins instead of fleener and this wouldnt be any issue. They might be looking for o line help from some of the other teams. Seattle dropped the deuce, I bet they would be picking it up.

WOW! Polian would not have drafted Janoris Jenkins in this lifetime......and would now say he is an excellent prospect, but in no way would he draft the extreme baggage and downside.....I hope you were sarcastic.....even though the avatar makes me laugh. "Hey Jim, ya ever heard the one about the cross-eyed kicker?" Jim obviously got the joke!

[lollygagger8]

No, Na'Polian would've never made this trade.

For starters, he would've never had enough money to even pay the rest of Davis' contract because all our cap money would all be tied up in about 5 players.

Also, he thought cover 2 was the greatest thing since sliced bread. He was ok with CB's (bodies) giving a 10 yard cushion every play so we would've had undrafted rookies playing CB for the rest of the Polianoscopy term.

[YOUR GM]

I guess I took the original question an entirely different way. I though the OP was asking, if Polian were still GM today, would he make this trade. If that's what he's asking, I say the answer is a resounding, "no!"

You guys bringing up a trade he did over a decade ago for Tyronne Poole are completely ignoring what Polian has (or rather, hasn't) done in recent years. In the off-season after the super bowl, Polian lays into the offensive line, and basically blames them for the loss. So rather than address a need (that HE called out in public) in the draft or free agency that same off-season, what does he do? He lets one of our best guards (Lilja) walk in free agency, uses our 1st round pick to draft a 3-4 OLB, and his big free agency splash was signing "over-the-hill" OT Adam Terry (who didn't even make it out of training camp) and all-world o-linemen, Jeff Linkenbach, as an UDFA.

So when I think about the question in the context of, "Would Polian address a glaring hole on the team by making a big trade?" Recent history tells me, no, he wouldn't. What have you done for me lately?

[YOUR GM]

[double]

[Mameluc]

Who, on the O line, with the exception of Saturday (and Glenn who wasn't drafted by Polian), ever made all pro? Also, we had more negative yard runs than any line in the NFL. The fact that the RBs managed to do ok on occasions is more a testament to them than the lines skills.

Many fans, coaches, pundits, NFL people, etc have called our line soft over the years. Look at the tapes from 1998 to 2011, our linemen consistently get blown back into the backfield on running plays.

seriously? all pros? thats a popularity contest.

[Fatboyslim11]

I guess I took the original question an entirely different way. I though the OP was asking, if Polian were still GM today, would he make this trade. If that's what he's asking, I say the answer is a resounding, "no!"

You guys bringing up a trade he did over a decade ago for Tyronne Poole are completely ignoring what Polian has (or rather, hasn't) done in recent years. In the off-season after the super bowl, Polian lays into the offensive line, and basically blames them for the loss. So rather than address a need (that HE called out in public) in the draft or free agency that same off-season, what does he do? He lets one of our best guards (Lilja) walk in free agency, uses our 1st round pick to draft a 3-4 OLB, and his big free agency splash was signing "over-the-hill" OT Adam Terry (who didn't even make it out of training camp) and all-world o-linemen, Jeff Linkenbach, as an UDFA.

So when I think about the question in the context of, "Would Polian address a glaring hole on the team by making a big trade?" Recent history Wtells me, no, he wouldn't. What have you done for me lately?

That was the approach I took. Polian is so rigid in his beliefs that he is unwilling make any exceptions. He would rather the team suffer a losing record than make certain trades or make selective use of free agency. I only wish he had such high standards when he forced his no talented son Chris on the organization.

[Fatboyslim11]

seriously? all pros? thats a popularity contest.

Whether or not the all pro selection/voting process is flawed is fuel for debate. Still, by any objective criteria, the Colts lineman (both O ans D) has been average at best. The exception has been Freeney and Mathis on defense and they are grat pass rushers but average to below average against the run. Our O line really has not had any great linemen over the past 10-12 years. Tarik Glenn was the closest we've had as a dominant, all pro O lineman.

[Mameluc]

Whether or not the all pro selection/voting process is flawed is fuel for debate. Still, by any objective criteria, the Colts lineman (both O ans D) has been average at best. The exception has been Freeney and Mathis on defense and they are grat pass rushers but average to below average against the run. Our O line really has not had any great linemen over the past 10-12 years. Tarik Glenn was the closest we've had as a dominant, all pro O lineman.

I do agree on Mathis-freeney review you just gave.

Honestly, before having all world skill individually i would grade that OL as a group. From 98 to 07 they were more than solid. i think they were a top 10 OL. after 07 they just went nowhere and that can be put on Pollan, he should have done a much better job there.

[lollygagger8]

Honestly, before having all world skill individually i would grade that OL as a group. From 98 to 07 they were more than solid. i think they were a top 10 OL. after 07 they just went nowhere and that can be put on Pollan, he should have done a much better job there.

Let's not forget, Manning made the O-Line look A LOT better because of his very quick delivery time.

[Mameluc]

Let's not forget, Manning made the O-Line look A LOT better because of his very quick delivery time.

sure, it would be stupid to deny that. specially in season 09, 10, etc.

but we didnt have 1thousand yards runner just because of Manning. Addai was not Edge either, but he still had 2 great years before the OL went to heck

[Superman]

I guess I took the original question an entirely different way. I though the OP was asking, if Polian were still GM today, would he make this trade. If that's what he's asking, I say the answer is a resounding, "no!"

You guys bringing up a trade he did over a decade ago for Tyronne Poole are completely ignoring what Polian has (or rather, hasn't) done in recent years. In the off-season after the super bowl, Polian lays into the offensive line, and basically blames them for the loss. So rather than address a need (that HE called out in public) in the draft or free agency that same off-season, what does he do? He lets one of our best guards (Lilja) walk in free agency, uses our 1st round pick to draft a 3-4 OLB, and his big free agency splash was signing "over-the-hill" OT Adam Terry (who didn't even make it out of training camp) and all-world o-linemen, Jeff Linkenbach, as an UDFA.

So when I think about the question in the context of, "Would Polian address a glaring hole on the team by making a big trade?" Recent history tells me, no, he wouldn't. What have you done for me lately?

I don't think Polian would have stripped the team the way Grigson did. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have released Manning. Given the state of the team before 2011, I don't think Polian would have traded for Vontae Davis, because I don't think the team would be structured the way it is now if Polian were still in charge.

However, that's a completely different variable. Let's assume Polian was in charge of the team we have today, with the coach we have, with the same expectations and cap constraints, I think Polian would consider a trade like this. When he took over in 1998, the first thing he did was a trade like this, and that was a team with similar circumstances. On the other hand, if Grigson were in charge of the team that Polian was over the last five years or so, I'm not certain he would have given up a 2nd rounder for Vontae Davis.

I have many of the same criticisms of Polian as you do, specifically over the last five years or so. His resistance to free agency and trading for players is impossible to defend, not with how rigid he was. But that was a different team, with different needs and different strengths. But if he just took over a team, and needed a corner, history shows that he would have been willing to make that kind of deal. The circumstances in 1998 were so similar to what Grigson is working with now, and the deal that Grigson did for Davis is practically identical to the deal Polian did for Poole.

I'll also mention briefly the other trades and free agent signings that Polian made in later years, including two moves in 2005 that helped us win 14 games that year, one of which helped us win the Super Bowl the following year. He should have done more of that as the years went on. We had glaring holes that weren't sufficiently addressed. The criticisms you mention are valid, in my opinion (Lilja didn't walk as a free agent; he was released, and maybe that makes it even worse).

But I don't think it's reasonable to compare Polian's management of a team that's winning 10+ games for 9 years in a row to Grigson's management of a team that needs to restock talent after a 2-14 season and a subsequent major reshaping. When Polian was in the position that Grigson is in now, he did many of the things Grigson is doing. I think that, if Polian were to take over a team in the position that our team is in now, he'd do the same things even now. I don't think he'd manage the team the way he did in his last few years here.

[Fatboyslim11]

I don't think Polian would have stripped the team the way Grigson did. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have released Manning. Given the state of the team before 2011, I don't think Polian would have traded for Vontae Davis, because I don't think the team would be structured the way it is now if Polian were still in charge.

However, that's a completely different variable. Let's assume Polian was in charge of the team we have today, with the coach we have, with the same expectations and cap constraints, I think Polian would consider a trade like this. When he took over in 1998, the first thing he did was a trade like this, and that was a team with similar circumstances. On the other hand, if Grigson were in charge of the team that Polian was over the last five years or so, I'm not certain he would have given up a 2nd rounder for Vontae Davis.

I have many of the same criticisms of Polian as you do, specifically over the last five years or so. His resistance to free agency and trading for players is impossible to defend, not with how rigid he was. But that was a different team, with different needs and different strengths. But if he just took over a team, and needed a corner, history shows that he would have been willing to make that kind of deal. The circumstances in 1998 were so similar to what Grigson is working with now, and the deal that Grigson did for Davis is practically identical to the deal Polian did for Poole.

I'll also mention briefly the other trades and free agent signings that Polian made in later years, including two moves in 2005 that helped us win 14 games that year, one of which helped us win the Super Bowl the following year. He should have done more of that as the years went on. We had glaring holes that weren't sufficiently addressed. The criticisms you mention are valid, in my opinion (Lilja didn't walk as a free agent; he was released, and maybe that makes it even worse).

But I don't think it's reasonable to compare Polian's management of a team that's winRning 10+ games for 9 years in a row to Grigson's management of a team that needs to restock talent after a 2-14 season and a subsequent major reshaping. When Polian was in the position that Grigson is in now, he did many of the things Grigson is doing. I think that, if Polian were to take over a team in the position that our team is in now, he'd do the same things even now. I don't think he'd manage the team the way he did in his last few years here.

A central theme in your post is a Polian vs Grigson comparison which isn't possible due to longetivity, team needs now vs then, etc. Yet you point out instances where Polian may be viewed in a favorable light even when specific comparisons aren't possible. We had 13 years of his genius and was left with an aging, ineffectual bunch of midgets with a HC that was overmatched and run by a GM who got the job only because of his daddy. The 9 years of 10+ Regular season win is tempered by the many colossal playoff failures, often as a number 1 or 2 seed with home field advantage. As you pointed out, the last 5 or 6 years during his reign was so so at best.

When Polian took over the team in 1998 we were not as inept as the 2011 edition. Say what you want about Infante and Tobin (Trev Alberts come to mind) and other bone head picks made by the regime previous to Polian but the team had a better core of players than Grigson inherited to build a better team. Also there was less pressure on Polian to produce an immediate winner as the owner has placed on Grigson. iMO, Grigson has done far more in his initial seven months, to include the Davis trade, than Polian did. Of course we will have to see how this and future seasons play out to get a more objective assessment of this trade and Grigson place among Colts and other NFL GMs going forward.

[bayone]

Polian trade a 2nd round draft pick?

Would Polian have done this trade?

makes me laugh to even read that question, Polian, either one doing this ridiculous

This staff starting with Peyton would of had more Superbowls,

when a need was seen it was addressed as best as possible, not like Polian simply calling out the OL and then waiting 2 years to try and do something about it

[Superman]

A central theme in your post is a Polian vs Grigson comparison which isn't possible due to longetivity, team needs now vs then, etc. Yet you point out instances where Polian may be viewed in a favorable light even when specific comparisons aren't possible. We had 13 years of his genius and was left with an aging, ineffectual bunch of midgets with a HC that was overmatched and run by a GM who got the job only because of his daddy. The 9 years of 10+ Regular season win is tempered by the many colossal playoff failures, often as a number 1 or 2 seed with home field advantage. As you pointed out, the last 5 or 6 years during his reign was so so at best.

When Polian took over the team in 1998 we were not as inept as the 2011 edition. Say what you want about Infante and Tobin (Trev Alberts come to mind) and other bone head picks made by the regime previous to Polian but the team had a better core of players than Grigson inherited to build a better team. Also there was less pressure on Polian to produce an immediate winner as the owner has placed on Grigson. iMO, Grigson has done far more in his initial seven months, to include the Davis trade, than Polian did. Of course we will have to see how this and future seasons play out to get a more objective assessment of this trade and Grigson place among Colts and other NFL GMs going forward.

It's well established and chronicled in detail how you feel about Polian, his son, and Caldwell. Not to mention the state of the roster over the past couple of years (at least). It's also pretty well understood that there are differences between the team Grigson inherited and the team Polian inherited. For instance, Polian didn't have to deal with a third of his salary cap being weighed down with dead money.

But what should also be clear is that the team Polian managed for the last five years is structurally different than the team he inherited, and just as different from the team Grigson took over.

And that's what my point is: Polian's non-activity over recent years is as much a function of the state of the team as it is about his resistance to adding players through trades and free agency. At best, it's an incomplete comparison to say that Polian didn't make any moves like the Davis trade in recent years, coming to a conclusion that he would NOT have made the Davis trade that Grigson did.

I honestly think we could have just left it there. In my mind, the fact that he did a very similar trade when he was in the position that Grigson finds himself in now is just the nail in the coffin. The Poole trade and the circumstances surrounding it are practically the same as the Davis trade and circumstances. So when the question is asked, the answer is very clearly "yes, Polian would have made this kind of trade if he were in a comparable situation, and he in fact did."

If you want to spend another preseason arguing about Polian's decisions, despite the fact that a) we agree that he didn't do a very good job in his last years here, and b) Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell should not have been in the positions they were in, we can do that. But why? He's not here anymore. How many times are we going to dig him up, just to bury him again? I'm not interested in defending Bill Polian. I'm just saying that the Davis trade is practically a mirror image of the Poole trade, both in value and in circumstance.

[bayone]

I guess I took the original question an entirely different way. I though the OP was asking, if Polian were still GM today, would he make this trade. If that's what he's asking, I say the answer is a resounding, "no!"

You guys bringing up a trade he did over a decade ago for Tyronne Poole are completely ignoring what Polian has (or rather, hasn't) done in recent years. In the off-season after the super bowl, Polian lays into the offensive line, and basically blames them for the loss. So rather than address a need (that HE called out in public) in the draft or free agency that same off-season, what does he do? He lets one of our best guards (Lilja) walk in free agency, uses our 1st round pick to draft a 3-4 OLB, and his big free agency splash was signing "over-the-hill" OT Adam Terry (who didn't even make it out of training camp) and all-world o-linemen, Jeff Linkenbach, as an UDFA.

So when I think about the question in the context of, "Would Polian address a glaring hole on the team by making a big trade?" Recent history tells me, no, he wouldn't. What have you done for me lately?

Would Polian have done this trade?

makes me laugh to even read that question, Polian, either one doing this ridiculous

This staff starting with Peyton would of had more Superbowls,

when a need was seen it was addressed as best as possible, not like Polian simply calling out the OL and then waiting 2 years to try and do something about it

My thoughts exactly,

--------------------------

tried to give u a like and pop up says problem with storing them, but it let me after on your double comment

WEIRD

[bayone]

I do agree on Mathis-freeney review you just gave.

Honestly, before having all world skill individually i would grade that OL as a group. From 98 to 07 they were more than solid. i think they were a top 10 OL. after 07 they just went nowhere and that can be put on Pollan, he should have done a much better job there.

Forgot exact year but must have been in some u note

Was an OG named Demulling who left in free agency for Detroit where i live, He stayed a short while and later came back to try for colts but didnt make team if i remember right.

HOWEVER

after returning to colts he said Peyton was so good and made OL all look so much better than we are so that other teams offered to & overpaid for my services so took Detroit up on it, Then they realized why I looked so good

[Fatboyslim11]

It's well established and chronicled in detail how you feel about Polian, his son, and Caldwell. Not to mention the state of the roster over the past couple of years (at least). It's also pretty well understood that there are differences between the team Grigson inherited and the team Polian inherited. For instance, Polian didn't have to deal with a third of his salary cap being weighed down with dead money.

But what should also be clear is that the team Polian managed for the last five years is structurally different than the team he inherited, and jut as different from the team Grigson took over.

And that's what my point is: Polian's non-activity over recent years is as much a function of the state of the team as it is about his resistance to adding players through trades and free agency. At best, it's an incomplete comparison to say that Polian didn't make any moves like the Davis trade in recent years, coming to a conclusion that he would NOT have made the Davis trade that Grigson did.

I honestly think we could have just left it there. In my mind, the fact that he did a very similar trade when he was in the position that Grigson finds himself in now is just the nail in the coffin. The Poole trade and the circumstances surrounding it are practically the same as the Davis trade and circumstances. So when the question is asked, the answer is very clearly "yes, Polian would have made this kind of trade if he were in a comparable situation, and he in fact did."

If you want to spend another preseason arguing about Polian's decisions, despite the fact that a) we agree that he didn't do a very good job in his last years here, and b) Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell should not have been in the positions they were in, we can do that. But why? He's not here anymore. How many times are we going to dig him up, just to bury him again? I'm not interested in defending Bill Polian. I'm just saying that the Davis trade is practically a mirror image of the Poole trade, both in value and in circumstance.

I believe it is well established and documented how many of us feel about Polian, his son and blinks Caldwell. There is a diversity of opinions and views and that is a good thing. We agree to disagree on the Davis trade and it's value to the team in this environment versus the Poole trade and it's value and impact.

[Superman]

I believe it is well established and documented how many of us feel about Polian, his son and blinks Caldwell. There is a diversity of opinions and views and that is a good thing. We agree to disagree on the Davis trade and it's value to the team in this environment versus the Poole trade and it's value and impact.

I like when I'm told that I agree to disagree. Always cracks me up.

I don't see how the differences between the 1998 Colts and the 2012 Colts (and there are differences, but mostly of a technical nature) have any bearing on the nature of the trades we're talking about. But I guess we've already agreed to disagree on that. More important in my opinion are the differences between the 2012 Colts and the 2006-2011 Colts.

[Fatboyslim11]

I like when I'm told that I agree to disagree. Always cracks me up.

I don't see how the differences between the 1998 Colts and the 2012 Colts (and there are differences, but mostly of a technical nature) have any bearing on the nature of the trades we're talking about. But I guess we've already agreed to disagree on that. More important in my opinion are the differences between the 2012 Colts and the 2006-2011 Colts.

I'm glad you are so easily amused. I suppose you see only what you agree to see but that is human nature. As far as the 2012 Colts being compared to the 2006-2011 Colts it cracks me up that anyone wii even attempt to compare and even attempt to explain any differences since the 2012 Colts have not played a down yet in the regular season.

[mark5362]

Bill wasn't a big trade guy but,I think any GM would make a trade if they thought it was a good thing for the team.