Hard Knocks episode 9

[craigerb]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Give me a break.

Even Ballard used the term "effort" in his presser. 

When you are 0-4 on the road vs arguably the worst team in the league over a 4 year span, effort/motivation is clearly in question. 

 

Sorry, I can't give you a break on this one. As I said "No one is a mind-reader--it is not possible to know if a team is motivated from the stands or on TV."
"Effort" can mean "execution" or "motivation". The first can be seen from afar, but not the second.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, craigerb said:

Sorry, I can't give you a break on this one. As I said "No one is a mind-reader--it is not possible to know if a team is motivated from the stands or on TV."
"Effort" can mean "execution" or "motivation". The first can be seen from afar, but not the second.

 

LOL... you try to create a situational argument where your narrative can't be disproved. That's super weak sauce..... 

 

The team sucked. Effort is not execution. You can have effort and still not execute. We lacked effort plain and simple. 

Motivation and effort are not the same, but when you lack effort, more times than not, you are not motivated. 

 

But go ahead and spin whatever tale, or mental gymnastic theory you'd like. 

[craigerb]

19 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

LOL... you try to create a situational argument where your narrative can't be disproved. That's super weak sauce.....

But go ahead and spin whatever tale, or mental gymnastic theory you'd like. 

I'll give you this: you know when to give up.

[EastStreet]

12 minutes ago, craigerb said:

I'll give you this: you know when to give up.

we had no effort.

most logical folks would say lack of effort is tied to lack of motivation.....

the HC is responsible for effort and motivation.

our HC is 0-4 in Jax.

 

Take your participation trophy victory lap... lol.... just remember your positive affirmations tomorrow morning lol.

 

[TomDiggs]

11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Not buying the execution thing. Reich is 0-4 in four years on the road to Jax. That's prep/motivation/coaching. Every aspect of the team sucked. 

 

I agree the losses in the secondary piled up and hurt, but Kenny (our highly touted NB) was pretty awful, and Lawrence is statistically the worst QB in the league coming in. We made Minshew and other bad QBs look like pro-bowlers in the past. So did the DB losses hurt, sure, but that doesn't explain other identical melt downs to bad QBs. Oke got abused in the seam as well vs the pass. 

 

Also, while Sendejo had holes in his game, he was much better in coverage than Blackmon (much much better passer rating allowed). Blackmon had a few good games in run support this year before going out, but he simply is not great defending the pass. 

i actually do not disagree with any of what you said about all the player issues. Kenny, Oke, etc.

 

But that proves my point. it wasnt coaching or motivation that made kenny get abused two weeks in a row. that's on him. same with Oke. Same with our entire OL and DL getting owned. 

 

And I'm sorry, I've played ball on the o-line and d-line at HS, college and semi-pro level and if you cannot get motivated yourself for a win-and-in game then that has zero zero zero to do with coaches. that's on the players. and i'll speak from experience here....i have played a perceived "lesser" opponent and had them punch us in the mouth to start the game. it * me/us off. it motivated us and we fired back and buried them.

 

this team did not rebound. they seemingly cowered and looked completely defeated.

 

i do not put that on coaches whatsoever. that is on the players. the episode showed Wentz often going up and down the sideline telling the dline it was going to be ok or the oline it was going to be ok and all those linemen were hanging their heads. they looked defeated. 

 

there was no "hey coach can we get a straight run" type moment where our players asked for us to bully the other team. they just kept getting bullied and tucked tail.

 

i don't usually get too high or too low during games or after games, but after this game was probably the lowest i have been on the team in maybe a decade. im looking forward to seeing a few major replacements made. on the coaching staff but especially on the team and in the trenches. here's hoping. 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

i actually do not disagree with any of what you said about all the player issues. Kenny, Oke, etc.

 

But that proves my point. it wasnt coaching or motivation that made kenny get abused two weeks in a row. that's on him. same with Oke. Same with our entire OL and DL getting owned. 

 

And I'm sorry, I've played ball on the o-line and d-line at HS, college and semi-pro level and if you cannot get motivated yourself for a win-and-in game then that has zero zero zero to do with coaches. that's on the players. and i'll speak from experience here....i have played a perceived "lesser" opponent and had them punch us in the mouth to start the game. it * me/us off. it motivated us and we fired back and buried them.

 

this team did not rebound. they seemingly cowered and looked completely defeated.

 

i do not put that on coaches whatsoever. that is on the players. the episode showed Wentz often going up and down the sideline telling the dline it was going to be ok or the oline it was going to be ok and all those linemen were hanging their heads. they looked defeated. 

 

there was no "hey coach can we get a straight run" type moment where our players asked for us to bully the other team. they just kept getting bullied and tucked tail.

 

i don't usually get too high or too low during games or after games, but after this game was probably the lowest i have been on the team in maybe a decade. im looking forward to seeing a few major replacements made. on the coaching staff but especially on the team and in the trenches. here's hoping. 

 

Two things...

 

My comments on Kenny and Oke were in reply to a point made by a poster who suggested the injuries were too much to overcome in relation to Lawrence having a career day. Not really about motivation. Oke has been abused in several games by seam throwing QBs, so not one game occurrence. Kenny has been abused several times this year when asked to cover verticals, so again, not a one game thing.

 

Second, on the motivation/effort. So you agree the team lacked effort and in your words "tucked tail". So we agree on that. We just disagree on who's responsible for that. I think coaching, prep, and culture has a lot to do with that. And the fact we're 0-4 in Jax, tells me it's not just a player thing, as we've done the same thing 4 years in a row, and had a lot of different players over those 4 years. 

[Dingus McGirt]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:45 PM, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I thought Reich's speech was horrendous.  No passion at all.  I am beginning to wonder if he was the right guy for this job.  

“beginning?” 

[EastStreet]

Finally watched it while cooking.... 

Total meh.... lol

Shoes... really....

Bags... really...

 

And the coach speak/speech was totally underwhelming. 

 

Aside from Q, JT, DL, and a very few others, I'm just not sure we have a lot of fire in our bellies or an identity. Those guys were born with fire. Not everyone is. Need some management with flame throwers. 

[TomDiggs]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Two things...

 

My comments on Kenny and Oke were in reply to a point made by a poster who suggested the injuries were too much to overcome in relation to Lawrence having a career day. Not really about motivation. Oke has been abused in several games by seam throwing QBs, so not one game occurrence. Kenny has been abused several times this year when asked to cover verticals, so again, not a one game thing.

 

Second, on the motivation/effort. So you agree the team lacked effort and in your words "tucked tail". So we agree on that. We just disagree on who's responsible for that. I think coaching, prep, and culture has a lot to do with that. And the fact we're 0-4 in Jax, tells me it's not just a player thing, as we've done the same thing 4 years in a row, and had a lot of different players over those 4 years. 

We 1000% agree on lacking effort. 
 

like you said it’s just a matter of disagreeing on who’s responsible. 
 

im not even looking at the games from 2015-2020. Those are history. Some was this regime. Some was before this regime. But this regime was very very well aware of the history and was preaching the dangers of this game and this team w their historical record in Florida against us. They were making the players aware. 
 

the players came out and laid a total egg. To me that’s on the players and not the coaches. I happen to agree w Ballard that you win In the trenches. I’m a trench guy so I’m biased. But our team is built to win in the trenches. When we got absolutely manhandled in the trenches on both sides, we got blown out. They took our strength and absolutely neutralized it and beat us at our own game. Kudos to them. That’s on the players when you get dominated  that thoroughly, especially when our lines minus Defo were pretty dang healthy. 
 

again, this is why I’m very curious to see if some of the big changes are on the lines. I hope they are. 

[Smoke317]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:28 PM, IndySouthsider said:

Why is Buckner getting killed today? What did he do?

Baker asked Buckner if he would be ready to go on Sunday.  Buckner responded by saying he’d see how his body felt and go if he could and not if he couldn’t.  I get what everyone is upset about.  As the leader of the D Line, he should’ve showed more passion.  Even if he couldn’t go, he should’ve said Heck Yeah I’ll be out there and ready.  Especially in front of all the other linemen. Maybe he felt Baker was putting him on the spot, but it sure didn’t spread any confidence throughout the room.

 

Also Frank’s speech & the other coaches came at the game from a negative angle.  All the talk was about Jacksonville can and will beat us “if we don’t practice hard and be prepared”.  I get that they were trying to warn guys but it just seemed like they talked up our own demise.  Everything was about Jacksonville being dangerous instead of getting hyped up and ready to go destroy the Jags and end that losing streak.  Imagine saying to your team in a must win game that the opponent can and will beat us… pause… then the pivot.  Almost like he realized what did I just say, let me fix that….
 

Just wasn’t the approach our staff should’ve used in my opinion. 

[sb2001]

Ugh, the Manning era if you’ve never lived it. Pain times infinity. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, TomDiggs said:

We 1000% agree on lacking effort. 
 

like you said it’s just a matter of disagreeing on who’s responsible. 
 

im not even looking at the games from 2015-2020. Those are history. Some was this regime. Some was before this regime. But this regime was very very well aware of the history and was preaching the dangers of this game and this team w their historical record in Florida against us. They were making the players aware. 
 

the players came out and laid a total egg. To me that’s on the players and not the coaches. I happen to agree w Ballard that you win In the trenches. I’m a trench guy so I’m biased. But our team is built to win in the trenches. When we got absolutely manhandled in the trenches on both sides, we got blown out. They took our strength and absolutely neutralized it and beat us at our own game. Kudos to them. That’s on the players when you get dominated  that thoroughly, especially when our lines minus Defo were pretty dang healthy. 
 

again, this is why I’m very curious to see if some of the big changes are on the lines. I hope they are. 

 

I'm only talking 2018-21, which is the same regime. 0-4. 

 

You and I have different expectations of coaching. Making guys aware of the obvious is not where a coach's job ends IMO. 

I didn't play ball after HS, but I had some old school fire guys as coaches. Didn't like our HC much lol, but he at least motivated us along with some very old school and motivational position coaches. We were a small parochial that rarely if ever played down to our competition. And we were absolutely a trench team. We never tucked tail, even when playing teams a few classes up. 

 

Anyway, however you look at it.... it falls back to Ballard and Reich. If you believe guys should be self motivated, then Ballard and Reich picked or played the wrong guys. If you believe a coach's job is to motivate, then Reich and the position coaches (who were picked by Reich and Ballard) are on the hook. I personally have seen a player look like two different players with two different coaches. Some folks need different things. It's a coaches job to figure that out. Or it's the FO's job to pick guys that don't need a motivational coaching staff. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

Baker asked Buckner if he would be ready to go on Sunday.  Buckner responded by saying he’d see how his body felt and go if he could and not if he couldn’t.  I get what everyone is upset about.  As the leader of the D Line, he should’ve showed more passion.  Even if he couldn’t go, he should’ve said Heck Yeah I’ll be out there and ready.  Especially in front of all the other linemen. Maybe he felt Baker was putting him on the spot, but it sure didn’t spread any confidence throughout the room.

 

Also Frank’s speech & the other coaches came at the game from a negative angle.  All the talk was about Jacksonville can and will beat us “if we don’t practice hard and be prepared”.  I get that they were trying to warn guys but it just seemed like they talked up our own demise.  Everything was about Jacksonville being dangerous instead of getting hyped up and ready to go destroy the Jags and end that losing streak.  Imagine saying to your team in a must win game that the opponent can and will beat us… pause… then the pivot.  Almost like he realized what did I just say, let me fix that….
 

Just wasn’t the approach our staff should’ve used in my opinion. 

I missed that Buckner part. But I agree about the approach to jags. They should of lifted them up and talked positive.  As soon as I seen that I was like no wonder they were tight.