If you go by 2019 the best quarterbacks of 2020 will not include Brady, Brees,

[BloodyChamp]

...Eli, Ben, or Rivers. Rodgers isn’t exactly the automatic MVP. He played better than the ghosts of those other guys which is why he’s still up there. That’s the best he can say. How weird is this?

 

Obviously Eli is retired. We’re all hoping Rivers bounces back. Ben obviously plans to. Rodgers hasn’t quit smugness and all. Brees and Brady haven’t either. But...if you go strictly by 2019 and not what you hope or predict...yeah lol! Sounds weird! 

[FortheWin]

Why?  I think all of them are going to have great years especially Brees and Brady. I like Rivers too in Indy being with Reich and playing in a dome. I think he comes out smoking. The only one I would have a question mark about is Ben because of the elbow but if he is healthy then I think he has a good year too especially with that great Steelers defense.

[BloodyChamp]

Ben is the only guy whose situation has changed drastically seemingly ever year, injuries and other drama, whose stayed at the same level. And he’s the 1 you doubt? Meanwhile those others guys looked as bad as Peyton did on a bad day at the end. It was just a little less dramatic.

[FortheWin]

1 hour ago, BloodyChamp said:

Ben is the only guy whose situation has changed drastically seemingly ever year, injuries and other drama, whose stayed at the same level. And he’s the 1 you doubt? Meanwhile those others guys looked as bad as Peyton did on a bad day at the end. It was just a little less dramatic.

Brees threw for almost 3,000 yards and 27 TDs and that was after missing 5 games with the thumb. Brady threw for 4,000 yards and 24 TDs. Neither was anywhere close to what Peyton looked like in 2015 which is the year I assume you are referencing when he threw 9 Tds to 17 picks?

 

But your point was based on production in 2020, right? I don't see any reason to doubt to either guy performing better than 2019.  Brady now has a power house offense with an offensive-minded HC in sunny Tampa so his numbers most likely go dramatically up. Brees got Sanders added to his already potent offense and assuming he plays all 16 his numbers will go up too.

[BloodyChamp]

Jameis Winston, Matt Ryan and David Carr had similar numbers last year and those are just 3 guys whose stats I can recall. There are probably worse guys.

 

Drew Brees underthrowing a ball that wasn’t that deep because it’s as far as he can throw anymore, after Hill had frozen roped it for a TD earlier, looked pretty old Peyton like. So did his fumble when he wasn’t even touched when it looked like the Vikings were trying to blow it. 
 

Brady didn’t look much better when he was playing teams better than Cleveland, which didn’t happen until like week 8. Brees’ cast wasn’t what I’d call a powerhouse but it’s pretty close.  All those guys besides Thomas just didn’t have the numbers because Brees just threw it short to him every time and Kamara, Teddy and Hill ran it. You have to be able to throw it to them not being able to do that is a possibility lol it has happened to better guys like Peyton and Favre.

[FortheWin]

I am not sure what you are getting at. Brees and Brady have been playing consistently well into their 40's. They may not throw as far as they used to but their overall greatness and mental awareness more than makes up for it.

 

I am not sure why you keep comparing to Peyton. Seems like you are taking shots at him for some reason. Peyton was not old or declining, he was injured having his neck fused. That is why he fell off so badly in 2015 not because he got old. Favre could not play well past age 40 because he was so beat up and took a pounding. Brees and Brady play the game perfectly for durability and consistently and they have managed to avoid major injuries later in their career but that is more of a factor of how they play the position. 

 

I guess we can check back after 2020 if there is a season but I believe both with have better stats in 2020, especially Brady given the talent around him.

[BloodyChamp]

You sound alot like the guy here who I’ve called a robot all of a sudden 

 

What really makes up for older quarterback’s shortcomings in this era? Overall greatness and mental awareness or overall softness of the game compared to previous eras and the ability to put up numbers that blow away the numbers of previous eras without having to be as good or tough of an athlete? Meanwhile the 3 other guys I mentioned aren’t exactly mental football giants and the also have the same numbers. And their numbers didn’t translate to winning. 
 

And I didn’t take a any shots at Peyton. Therefore you don’t have to start making excuses for him. I called it like we all saw it. You don’t see me tracing Favre’s end back to his ankle injury that he never got over. The end result would have probably been the same ankle injury, neck injury, or whatever injury or not by age 41 in that era. In this era guys will continue to put up numbers but we’ve also seen the end result more than once. 

[FortheWin]

I don't think the present era is soft at all. The athletes are bigger, faster and stronger than they were previously. If this wasn't the case, Andrew Luck would not have retired at age 29 from getting beat up. Cam Newton would have a job at age 30 but again too beat up from today's game.

 

Also, the strategy of the game has evolved too with much more expectation on the QB to be the engine to drive the team to wins. It is not as simple as stats as you make it seem to be. QB play has never been about stats solely but about leadership and decision making and playing smart.

 

I am not sure why you are denigrating Brees and Brady when they are literally part of the same era as Peyton and Favre.  Both  have played unbelievable football late in their careers because they are smart players and have managed to avoid major injury while also going to extreme measures to take care of their bodies too. I said in a previous post, they are the anomaly, especially Brady playing to 43 as a starter with a brand new 2 year contract. I have been hearing that this may be Brees last season which will mean he played until 41 same as Favre. 

 

Perhaps you are just hoping they have a bad 2020?  Because there is nothing to suggest they will based on their current teams and quality of their play.

[BloodyChamp]

Those bigger stronger and faster athletes must not include smaller weaker and slower undrafted Slot WRs who have 1000 yards every year. No offense to those guys but that’s what they are compared to their predecessors who didn’t have those number, and really didn’t play the same game. A 5 yard pass over the middle to a guy running horizontally was almost an automatic trip to the stretcher before. And it obviously doesn’t include quarterbacks lol!
 

As for the athletes that are bigger stronger and faster alot of difference it makes for them when you’re not allowed to use it in the cases of guys on defense. 
 

Luck quit because apparently Colts doctors don’t know how to properly diagnose shoulder injuries or leg injuries and said to heck with this. Brett Favre didn’t play football in this era. Drew Brees did in the previous era and he stayed hurt and benched. Brady missed a season in that era. Peyton hurt his neck in that era. 

[FortheWin]

Ah, I see now. Favre is THE tough guy and ALL the guys that passed him on the stats list (Peyton, Brees, Brady) are weak because of era even though it is the same era and only injuries from the exact years that Favre played count because doctors post 2010 don't know what they are doing. Not sure why I didn't see the bias from the get go. Ha,ha, ha.

 

 

[BloodyChamp]

Yeah that’s it...not that 2011 is generally regarded as the start of this era with 2 quarterbacks breaking Dan Marino’s yardage record that was considered unbreakable. And the fact that it’s been shattered by atleast 1 guy every year since has nothing to do with it I suppose. 50 TD seasons, 6 and 7 TD games, all that stuff happens every year now. 
 

And the penalties we’ve seen called on bigger stronger faster men good gosh surely you’re not going to pretend that’s not complete separation between eras. The only people around here who haven’t acknowledged that are Brady homers from years ago with good ole amfootball.

[FortheWin]

If there is a line of demarcation for stats it is the era after Marino. The 90s football was an aerial attack and then you had the receiver position change dramatically with Michael Irvin starting the dawn of the big, fast, strong receivers. Then in 2004 you had the league emphasizing the receiver holding rule which really opened the game and made it easier to pass. 

 

So I have no issue putting Marino as king of the stats. He really was much more so for his era than Favre, Manning, Brady or Brees. 

 

I would imagine that for this board no one here denigrates Manning due to era when he broke all the passing records and retired with them until Brees/Brady.  Not sure why any Pat fan would care honestly as Brady has the six rings and could care less about stats ...

[BloodyChamp]

We all know why people take up for Peyton Manning around here. It’s personal. Not so coincidentally that doesn’t matter though because he’s an alltime great whether you’re a fan or not. 
 

You keep trying to angle this towards lifetime stats which Brady and Tom have yes, but they were working on that before this era. What they were not doing was throwing 50 TD passes, gaining 5000 yards in seasons and throwing 6 and 7 TDs in games. Those aren’t coincidences either even though they were potentially going to break the lifetime records eventually, but not necessarily had they not got to play in this era.

 

And yes I know Peyton and Brady had a 50 and 49 TD season in the previous era. That’s 1 season not seasons.

[FortheWin]

Yeah. I agree. I don't think any of them break Marino's records if the rules/style of game don't change so dramatically which is why I have never put much stock in stats in general. Although I do think whoever finishes at the top - Brady or Brees - will have the records for some time. I only believe that because I don't think today's QBs will play as long. The money is too big for them to stick around 20 years. I mean Luck made 100 mil in just 8/9 seasons. That is unreal.