Why Do People Doubt Peyton

[mmcrazylikeafox]

seriously, do you really think his nerves are going to re-generate and allow him to be who he was? no, too many doctors say no way.

Yes because before PM got the surgery he did his homework getting the best doctors opinions of whether he would be able to perform at the same level after the surgery and opted to have the surgery based on the pro's and con's from a medical viewpoint.

[IndyTrav]

age I can't agree with. His age has the least to do with it. he wins with brains and accuracy and has never needed the ability to scramble and make plays. This is where I think "age" would matter. Injury history I believe speaks for itself, NONE until this neck injury. I do however agree that we are still up in the air about recovery progress and its just human nature to speculate. we'll get the answer to all these questions in time.

He's 36 and has 3 to 4 more years of playing time, he had no injury history prior to last year. I believe he played 13 years without missing a game so where's the history of injury. I believe there is evidence of recovery. The real issue is money. I guess you can't pay him 28 million without knowing he can play. That's the doubt right there. You can't pay a guy 28 million not knowing if he's healthy enough to play. I've come to grips with that. Now if Manning can't take a pay cut I'm good with that.

Marino-38 Elway-38 Montana-38 Young-38 Aikman-34 Kelly-36....Yes age is a factor....

Injury History. None until this year, which then SKY ROCKETS TO 3 SURGERIES in less than a years time. Possibly 4. Not on a knee, or wrist, or elbow. A Neck. In family that has a history of neck problems.

What is the evidence of recovery other than rumors? The same rumors that say he isn't recovering aren't as valuable as the rumors that say he is? Im confused.

[IndyTrav]

Yes because before PM got the surgery he did his homework getting the best doctors opinions of whether he would be able to perform at the same level after the surgery and opted to have the surgery based on the pro's and con's from a medical viewpoint.

Was this before or after the 1st surgery? The 2nd? Or the 3rd?

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Was this before or after the 1st surgery? The 2nd? Or the 3rd?

after the fusion. The earlier ones (2 or 3) were in attempt to avoid the fusion so he could play in 2011 even though they weren't designed as permanent solutions like the fusion. It doesn't matter how many surgeries preceded the fusion. All that matters is the fusion's success and his recovery from that.

[jedi.creech]

I'm a little sad that it won't let me give you +1's all day long for this one ;)

LOL... I know exactly what you are coming from... I have NEVER heard so much from Talking Heads about anyone then Mr. Hype. I personally am sick of Mr. Hype before I even get to see him play just because of the talk..

[IndyTrav]

after the fusion. The earlier ones (2 or 3) were in attempt to avoid the fusion so he could play in 2011 even though they weren't designed as permanent solutions like the fusion. It doesn't matter how many surgeries preceded the fusion. All that matters is the fusion's success and his recovery from that.

So he didn't do his homework for those, he didn't get the best medical opinion on those etc?

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Was this before or after the 1st surgery? The 2nd? Or the 3rd?

That was before surgery as I already stated but he has been cleared to take contact and is still experiencing nerve regeneration and only his doctors and obviously himself know what progress he is making and the success of his recovery after his surgery. If the surgery had gone bad then the chance for recovery wouldn't be well.

[IndyTrav]

If the surgery had gone bad then the chance for recovery wouldn't be well.

Like, say, the first 2...possibly 3?

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Marino-38 Elway-38 Montana-38 Young-38 Aikman-34 Kelly-36....Yes age is a factor....

Injury History. None until this year, which then SKY ROCKETS TO 3 SURGERIES in less than a years time. Possibly 4. Not on a knee, or wrist, or elbow. A Neck. In family that has a history of neck problems.

What is the evidence of recovery other than rumors? The same rumors that say he isn't recovering aren't as valuable as the rumors that say he is? Im confused.

the rumors that say he isnt recovering are all from unnamed, unavailable, sources that can't be confirmed but the eyewitnesses that are named (Addai, B. Pollian, and Vinateri) besides PM and his doctors are not rumors!

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Like, say, the first 2...possibly 3?

You need to stop repeating the same point that doesn't make sense. The early surgeries were all attempts at a temp solution to allow him to play. When they didn't work, he got the fusion that that knew would likely mean missing most if not all of the season. His health at this moment is dependent on the fusion, not on the earlier surgeries that became moot once he opted for the fusion.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Like, say, the first 2...possibly 3?

Just because they were not successful does not mean or imply that they were bad. They just didn't have the intended results. Fusing the spine was just not the first choice of action

[IndyTrav]

the rumors that say he isnt recovering are all from unnamed, unavailable, sources that can't be confirmed but the eyewitnesses that are named (Addai, B. Pollian, and Vinateri) besides PM and his doctors are not rumors!

So his co-workers have his back. But those who, pardon the pun, don't have a horse in the race, say otherwise. Hmmm.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought I heard Polain singing the praises of one, Curtis Painter this year as well.

Then you go Addai, Vinny, both of whom are on the chopping block. I wonder why they would come out and support Manning.

[IndyTrav]

You need to stop repeating the same point that doesn't make sense. The early surgeries were all attempts at a temp solution to allow him to play. When they didn't work, he got the fusion that that knew would likely mean missing most if not all of the season. His health at this moment is dependent on the fusion, not on the earlier surgeries that became moot once he opted for the fusion.

Perhaps you should read more clearly. Im trying to understand why this last surgery is such a sure fire success, when the other two, or 3 were not. Im sure he was told before those others something along the lines of 'this will get you back to playing this year' and they did not. So why when they say 'This 3rd one will get you back to playing next year' why should I or anyone else choose to believe that?

[mmcrazylikeafox]

So his co-workers have his back. But those who, pardon the pun, don't have a horse in the race, say otherwise. Hmmm.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought I heard Polain singing the praises of one, Curtis Painter this year as well.

Then you go Addai, Vinny, both of whom are on the chopping block. I wonder why they would come out and support Manning.

I just look at clear, solid, information. What was the names of the sources you listed? Oh ya NONE

[IndyTrav]

I just look at clear, solid, information. What was the names of the sources you listed? Oh ya NONE

The fact that you think anything about Peytons situation is 'clear, solid, information', shows me you are reaching for a happy conclusion. I can't blame you for that, everyone wants that. But its wrong.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Perhaps you should read more clearly. Im trying to understand why this last surgery is such a sure fire success, when the other two, or 3 were not. Im sure he was told before those others something along the lines of 'this will get you back to playing this year' and they did not. So why when they say 'This 3rd one will get you back to playing next year' why should I or anyone else choose to believe that?

None of us know how he's doing now, but the other surgeries have no impact on his current health. Everyone keeps quoting the number of surgeries like that's a sign he's done. The number of surgeries are unimportant because they were all lesser solutions than the fusion. We just have to wait to see how he recovers from the fusion. It's a shame that he didn't opt for the fusion from the start so that we'd be several months ahead in the process, but he seemed to want to try everything to avoid it.

[IndyTrav]

None of us know how he's doing now, but the other surgeries have no impact on his current health. Everyone keeps quoting the number of surgeries like that's a sign he's done. The number of surgeries are unimportant because they were all lesser solutions than the fusion. We just have to wait to see how he recovers from the fusion. It's a shame that he didn't opt for the fusion from the start so that we'd be several months ahead in the process, but he seemed to want to try everything to avoid it.

Im not debating the operations themselves. The fusions etc. I am debating the process.

I agree, I wish he would have done the fusion right off the bat, but as I've said Im sure he was told before EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS OPERATIONS "This will get you back on the field", and it has yet to happen. That is where my problems lay. One has no bearing on the other, operations wise, but the outcome for ALL of them was supposed to be the same.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Perhaps you should read more clearly. Im trying to understand why this last surgery is such a sure fire success, when the other two, or 3 were not. Im sure he was told before those others something along the lines of 'this will get you back to playing this year' and they did not. So why when they say 'This 3rd one will get you back to playing next year' why should I or anyone else choose to believe that?

The first two just didn't have the positive results they expected or wanted but neither did they have negative results! They went with the fusion and got the positive results they were wanting! You are simply looking for reasons to disprove or argue the fact. Even though they hold no weight or fact you stand on them blindly arguing to no avail. How can you prove by your information that PM's surgery was not a success? I haven't seen him throw and you haven't either so based on the available information we have you are unable to support your position as strongly as those who have seen improvement!

[mmcrazylikeafox]

The fact that you think anything about Peytons situation is 'clear, solid, information', shows me you are reaching for a happy conclusion. I can't blame you for that, everyone wants that. But its wrong.

So far what we have heard and know from reliable, firsthand, eyewitness reports and information; that much is clear and solid! The only thing that isn't clear and solid is if he will continue to regenerate his nerves till he is back to 100% and then whether he will remain a Colt based on his nerve regeneration.

[IndyTrav]

The first two just didn't have the positive results they expected or wanted but neither did they have negative results! They went with the fusion and got the positive results they were wanting! You are simply looking for reasons to disprove or argue the fact. Even though they hold no weight or fact you stand on them blindly arguing to no avail. How can you prove by your information that PM's surgery was not a success? I haven't seen him throw and you haven't either so based on the available information we have you are unable to support your position as strongly as those who have seen improvement!

. Thanks Chief. Youre golden.

Bolded= Comedy

Bolded/Underlined= He's not playing football...And the owner is unsure of signing him....Point of the surgery, to get him playing football.....

If it was an unabashed success, THIS THREAD WOULDN'T EXIST.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

Im not debating the operations themselves. The fusions etc. I am debating the process.

I agree, I wish he would have done the fusion right off the bat, but as I've said Im sure he was told before EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS OPERATIONS "This will get you back on the field", and it has yet to happen. That is where my problems lay. One has no bearing on the other, operations wise, but the outcome for ALL of them was supposed to be the same.

No one has been back on the field! Not one single NFL player! PM is still rehabbing! If he had stopped improving then he would simply retire because whoever wants to sign him will need to see him throw first and he would lose all credibility if he couldn't throw! Other teams are willing to take the chance at least to see if he is back to 100%. He deserves his own organization and fans to allow him the same courtesy

[IndyTrav]

So far what we have heard and know from reliable, firsthand, eyewitness reports and information; that much is clear and solid! The only thing that isn't clear and solid is if he will continue to regenerate his nerves till he is back to 100% and then whether he will remain a Colt based on his nerve regeneration.

These same 'first hand accounts' come from people employed by Irsay. The same Irsay who is unsure as to if he is going to re-sign Peyton Manning. What does that tell you.

[subvet]

If all is okay then why have we seen nothing? I mean this is real simple call a press conference Peyton and let's see...

Like has been posted already, if they planned on cutting Manning, why wait? It doesn't get anyone more money, all it does is generate publicity for the team which tells me they plan to keep him.

As for seeing nothing it's like when my wife watches me doing a project in the house. While I'm doing it, there are always flaws that are corrected by later steps in the process so why let the world pick his throwing apart if it is improving and "in progress?" I'm willing to wait for the finished product because until Peyton is happy with his passing, no one else will be either.

[Blue Horseshoe]

He deserves his own organization and fans to allow him the same courtesy

Well, if they don't then I'll bet you they will get plenty of chances to see him throw in the future ;)

[Flash7]

First off, the hype is just overwhelming. That sets up all kinds of completely unrealistic expectations in the fan base that the man simply can not meet. When that happens all kinds of things go wrong very fast. The fans turn, the press turns, the player starts pressing to silence the boos and things just fall apart. Every time someone repeats the "best since Norm Van Brocklin" nonsense it justs sets him up even more for disaster.

Secondly, I do not think he is anywhere near as good as advertised. I think his college numbers are fraudulent and are the product of a truly great offensive line and very soft scheduling including cream puff Pac-12 defenses. Once again, the expectations are "best since Sammy Baugh" and quite frankly I see nothing in his play which makes me believe that he can deliver anything approaching that.

Next, the shadow of Peyton Manning looms very large. This isn't replacing JIm Harbaugh. It is replacing a true legend of the game. Here again I expect the man to try and force things to get out from under that shadow and I expect the results to be disappointing.

Fourth, the Colts are a mess. He isn't going to get the kind of support that a young quarterback needs to flourish. Manning could carry this team but I see no reason to believe that some rookie ever could.

The man is being put in an extremely difficult position and people in extremely difficult positions usually disappoint.

Don't get me wrong. I am not some kind of Andrew Luck hater. In fact, I hope the man has the kind of solid Chad Pennington type career I expect him to have. Unfortunately, given the ridiculous expectations that have been set up a Chad Pennington career will be considered an enormous bust.

I just don't buy any of the hype at all. In fact, I think it is beyond comical to be perfectly honest.

A couple of things to mention...

First, You repeatedly mention Luck as a rookie. Keep in mind that he will only be a rookie his first year, and you need to be able to see beyong that. We are in a rebuilding mode right now, and even if Manning were to come back and play this year, you would have to expect that he will need time to regain his timing, and get back up to his previous level of play, if that is at all possible for him. This upcoming year is a rebuilding year by most accounts and having an expectation for Manning to come back and win a Superbowl after being out a year is not too realistic. So my point is that we have to be patient as a Colts fan and understand that the goal is to win the superbowl this upcoming season, yet, we should also have realistic expectations from a team in rebuilding mode. It may serve the Colts better to start Luck and let him learn during this period of time.

Secondly, We as fans want to win now and all of the time. That too, is unrealistic. All of the previous dynasties have ended, and only some have been reborn. SF ruled during the 80's and dissapeared in the 90's and 2000's. We have an opportunty to rebuild with a very promising prospect. It may allow us to keep our winning ways. Let's focus on this draft, all of it, not just the Luck pick. And let's focus on next year's draft. By then, we could have a really solid team with new and young talent.

Lastly, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, John Elway, and other great QBs all came from the draft. Teams did their homework on them and made a decision to draft them to lead their teams. I am not sure where else we could expect to have a franchise QB. Logically, great QBs are available in the draft. They enter the NFL and eventually do well in the NFL. Why not take a chance with the best available college QB?

[mmcrazylikeafox]

. Thanks Chief. Youre golden.

Bolded= Comedy

Bolded/Underlined= He's not playing football...And the owner is unsure of signing him....Point of the surgery, to get him playing football.....

If it was an unabashed success, THIS THREAD WOULDN'T EXIST.

Once again he has been cleared by his doctors to take hits and if the Colts org. would have allowed it he was cleared to play the last game or 2 but only in the red zone!!! You just refuse to acknowledge the facts. Irsay is unsure only because the cap situation because he said PM can stay a Colt if he wants to if they reconstruct his contract to be cap friendly!

[eli4625]

According to Manning, he want to stay a Colt

According to Irsay, he's willing to talk to keep him a Colt

The door is open, they will renegotiate the deal

Where is the hook?

Which do you think Peyton would rather have...

2-3 remaining of maybe .500 ball at best with the Colts

Or

2-3 remaining years on a team with good odds of being in the playoffs and making the playoffs playing for another team

[eli4625]

Like has been posted already, if they planned on cutting Manning, why wait? It doesn't get anyone more money, all it does is generate publicity for the team which tells me they plan to keep him.

As for seeing nothing it's like when my wife watches me doing a project in the house. While I'm doing it, there are always flaws that are corrected by later steps in the process so why let the world pick his throwing apart if it is improving and "in progress?" I'm willing to wait for the finished product because until Peyton is happy with his passing, no one else will be either.

Simple Irsay has till March 8 and he has nothing to prove like Peyton does.

[Flash7]

Once again he has been cleared by his doctors to take hits and if the Colts org. would have allowed it he was cleared to play the last game or 2 but only in the red zone!!! You just refuse to acknowledge the facts. Irsay is unsure only because the cap situation because he said PM can stay a Colt if he wants to if they reconstruct his contract to be cap friendly!

You're using an "if" statement and saying that people are refusing to look at the facts. The facts in this case are that he was looked at during practice, throwing in drills to show his readiness to play in a game situation within the red zone. He was not ready, and the coaching staff, Bill Polian, and team doctors did not clear him to play.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

So his co-workers have his back. But those who, pardon the pun, don't have a horse in the race, say otherwise. Hmmm.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought I heard Polain singing the praises of one, Curtis Painter this year as well.

Then you go Addai, Vinny, both of whom are on the chopping block. I wonder why they would come out and support Manning.

Why would his teamates lie for him if he cant throw!? Im sure they want to win some football games! It's Pollian not Polain and apparently Painter did well in practice but not on the field and mostly cause he has been in the system longer than Orlovsky or Collins.

[subvet]

Which do you think Peyton would rather have...

2-3 remaining of maybe .500 ball at best with the Colts

Or

2-3 remaining years on a team with good odds of being in the playoffs and making the playoffs playing for another team

I honestly believe he wants to finish his career as a Colt as has been reported. I'm not a Manning die hard fan, I'm a Colts fan and I only want what is best for both parties and the best to me is keeping Manning for a year or two and help guide the Colts until the new quarterback is ready to take them to the playoffs.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

You're using an "if" statement and saying that people are refusing to look at the facts. The facts in this case are that he was looked at during practice, throwing in drills to show his readiness to play in a game situation within the red zone. He was not ready, and the coaching staff, Bill Polian, and team doctors did not clear him to play.

They said they didnt think it was wise to put him in a few games at the end of a losing season but rather let him take the time to rehab! He was cleared by the doc's who performed the surgery but not the Colts org. only for his rehab process to continue uninterrupted and so he wouldn't have a chance to be re-injured at the end of a losing season! Read up on all available material before you spout off at the mouth.

[Flash7]

They said they didnt think it was wise to put him in a few games at the end of a losing season but rather let him take the time to rehab! He was cleared by the doc's who performed the surgery but not the Colts org. only for his rehab process to continue uninterrupted and so he wouldn't have a chance to be re-injured at the end of a losing season! Read up on all available material before you spout off at the mouth.

So again, the only fact in your statement is that he was not cleared to play by the Colts organization, Everything else is heresay. I've read up on it, the same as you have. Actions speak louder than words. It was clear that Peyton was not ready to play. I don't see why this is even an argument.

[JoKeR]

To the OP, Manning probably has had some progress in his rehab but with a nerve injury, that progress could plateau at anytime.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Peyton was not ready to play in December. But, he just needs to be ready by August or so. That's a long time in between to improve. We'll see what happens.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

So again, the only fact in your statement is that he was not cleared to play by the Colts organization, Everything else is heresay. I've read up on it, the same as you have. Actions speak louder than words. It was clear that Peyton was not ready to play. I don't see why this is even an argument.

Whatever, those statements although not a direct quote came from PM, Irsay and PM's docs! All facts you just pick and choose what you want to believe! If it comes from unnamed or unavailable sources with no confirmation I'm sure thats fact to you

[oldunclemark]

How quickly they forget what you did for the organization, what you meant to the fan base, and what you meant to a city. You do everything for them and they just throw you away. I do believe both sides need to give ground and I can see where Irsay can't pay 28 million on unknowns but Manning needs to give ground too. Just think, would we even be having this conversation if Manning hadn't lost the entire 2011 season to injury?

I think it's just stupid how Manning and Irsay can't just have a press conference and tell everyone whats going on. It's just stupid to cause this kind of rift within your organization and your fanbase. It's called respect!

But there is the unknown of his recovery pace.........

Anything they say on Friday might not be true Monday....and they'd have to take it back.....

Folks would accuse them of lying...

Its best to say nothing until both sides know (or can reasonably assume) Peyton will be able to play in September...

[mmcrazylikeafox]

To the OP, Manning probably has had some progress in his rehab but with a nerve injury, that progress could plateau at anytime.

I agree 100% that it could plateau! If it does or doesn't we need to be prepared for football without PM but it would be nice to have him back and healthy

[Peyton and Eli fan]

The basic problem is that it's likely neither Manning nor Irsay will have enough info by 3/8, but Peyton will not want to make a final decision on his abilities until he gives it longer to regenerate.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

You know the old saying: "No news is good news." Hopefully it is! But still draft a QB and more D! Colts need to be prepared this season and Orlovsky needs to keep improving or we might end up with no option or a lousy one at best, at 2nd QB.