Question(s) about small interior defensive lineman

[Finball]

Right now, maybe half of the top 15 (or so) interior defensive lineman are 6'1 or less and about 300 lbs or less and arm lenght of around 32 inches (Donald, Atkins, Casey, Daniels, Jarrett/Kyle Williams). Only Donald was a day one 1 pick or drafted in the first two rounds. Casey went in the 3rd round. No one else was picked in the top 100. I don't think there is an other position were so many top players share similar trait and most of them were picked late in the draft.

 

Are teams that afraid of having a small team that they automatically give worse grade for smaller defensive lineman? If Aaron Donald, for example, had Geno Atkins besides him instead of Michael Brockers, would that line be as effective as one would expect just from the player talent level upgrade from Brockers to Atkins or even worse? I mean, Brockers is a good player but Atkins is on another level. And individually these players are great but would they work as well together on the same line? Not sure if it's as much about the size itself as these players can use it to their advantage in quickness and leverage but maybe two dlineman with short arms would create some issues?

 

Just wondering why so many of them have fallen late in the draft. I understand that some teams want bigger, physical players (like BB, Parcells etc) but what about those teams that had already gotten steals later in the draft with small interior lineman would jump at the chance to select a player who had great tape and showed similar traits as their best defensive player. Like Grady Jarrett in 2015. Both the Bengals and Titans drafted a dlinemen in the 4th, Jarrett went with first pick in the 5th round Bengals pick was actually two picks before Jarrett was taken.

 

Though the Bengals did take Billings last year and he might be next to Atkins but he was another 4th round pick. And Titans did draft Mike Martin to be their nose tackle a year after taking Casey but he didn't pan out. And I maybe haven't looked at closely enough at bust/success rate for smaller defensive lineman so these guys could be sort of outliers and teams just missed on these guys for other reasons.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

 

Part of the issue with smallish D-lineman is which defense do you play?

 

You can have a 6'1" 300 pound DT in a 4-3...     because with 4 DL, 3 of the 4 are likely to face only 1 blocker.   One guy may get double-teamed.

 

But in a 3-4,  multiple DL's could face being double teamed.     If you have a smallish DL getting double teamed,  you run the risk of getting him effectively removed from making any plays,  plus he'll likely get worn down over the course of time in any given game and or season.      

 

My comments here are a broad over-simplification,  but it's probably a good place to start a discussion...  others here will likely want to expand on my thoughts.....

 

 

[Finball]

Yeah that has to play a role, especially if at least one DE is two-gapping in a 3-4, There small size and arm length could definitely be an issue.

 

And actually, Bills (Kyle Williams), Titans (Casey) and Packers (Daniels), were using or going to use 3-4 as their base D in 2015, when Jarrett was drafted..

[chad72]

It is all about the role the defensive lineman plays, that calls for certain attributes.

 

Here is a good read for the same:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/

 

This second article might talk about shorter defenders more:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2669199-not-to-be-overlooked-a-pass-rushers-natural-advantage-to-being-short

 

 

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

On 5/29/2017 at 6:47 AM, Finball said:

Right now, maybe half of the top 15 (or so) interior defensive lineman are 6'1 or less and about 300 lbs or less and arm lenght of around 32 inches (Donald, Atkins, Casey, Daniels, Jarrett/Kyle Williams). Only Donald was a day one 1 pick or drafted in the first two rounds. Casey went in the 3rd round. No one else was picked in the top 100. I don't think there is an other position were so many top players share similar trait and most of them were picked late in the draft.

 

Are teams that afraid of having a small team that they automatically give worse grade for smaller defensive lineman? If Aaron Donald, for example, had Geno Atkins besides him instead of Michael Brockers, would that line be as effective as one would expect just from the player talent level upgrade from Brockers to Atkins or even worse? I mean, Brockers is a good player but Atkins is on another level. And individually these players are great but would they work as well together on the same line? Not sure if it's as much about the size itself as these players can use it to their advantage in quickness and leverage but maybe two dlineman with short arms would create some issues?

 

Just wondering why so many of them have fallen late in the draft. I understand that some teams want bigger, physical players (like BB, Parcells etc) but what about those teams that had already gotten steals later in the draft with small interior lineman would jump at the chance to select a player who had great tape and showed similar traits as their best defensive player. Like Grady Jarrett in 2015. Both the Bengals and Titans drafted a dlinemen in the 4th, Jarrett went with first pick in the 5th round Bengals pick was actually two picks before Jarrett was taken.

 

Though the Bengals did take Billings last year and he might be next to Atkins but he was another 4th round pick. And Titans did draft Mike Martin to be their nose tackle a year after taking Casey but he didn't pan out. And I maybe haven't looked at closely enough at bust/success rate for smaller defensive lineman so these guys could be sort of outliers and teams just missed on these guys for other reasons.

 

 

 

In part, I would say it's because a lot of people are kinda married to the "measureables" - height/weight/strength/speed, etc.  Taller guys with longer arms "should" be better at swatting down passes at the line.  Really heavy/strong guys "should" be better at anchoring a spot and taking on double-teams.  If they don't "check off all the boxes" then they can't be "elite".

 

But interior DLine is one of those positions where "want-to" can go a long, LONG way for someone without all the "measureables".  Especially when it comes to getting into the other teams' backfield.  You can't make yourself taller, or your arms longer, but you can improve your footwork and your handwork.

 

Sometimes, they end up with a chip on their shoulder because they're not the biggest, and they just will not be denied once the ball is snapped.  While a guy that has always been, and still is the biggest, may never develop that chip and that attitude.  Bottom line is that results talk and everyone else walks.