Tim Williams (Edge Scout #3)

[Freeupfreeney]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Preface this with I'm no Bama hater.  I'm a Buckeye living in Bama with a daughter going to school there.  I admire what Saban is able to do each year.  I think in spite of their loss to Clemson, that could have been the best college football defense, maybe ever.

 

All that being said - PLEASE watch some Tim Williams tape against the better teams they played.  They killed USC, but he wasn't a factor.  There's a link to the 15 MSU game in this thread, he was routinely handled by their LT.  Watch the last two NCs.  

 

Bama had so many good players no team could gameplan for him.  They had too many weapons to worry about.  Yet he was hardly a factor in games against the good teams.

 

If I'm way off, I'll be happy to admit it if people can explain why.  Just MHO.

Here what I have to say about that.

 

I can't say, Dwight freeney isn't good if he had 3 games where he didn't have a sack.

 

That's not how I evaluate a defensive player.

 

I look and see how hard he is playing. If he is beat...what does he do the next play. How strong is he pushing to get a sack, a tackle.

 

If he cant be the first to the ball, how hard is he trying to assist on the tackle.

 

When he realizes he can't get the QB in time, does he recognize a screen forming, a TE open in the midfield. Does he realize that the QB is a scrambler and maintains good spy disciple. Is he actually a good spy and can close in on a scrambling QB.

 

A player to me can have 2 sacks and still look bad (maybe his sacks were lucky sacks)

 

And he could have zero sacks and looks incredible

 

I watched the USC film and the MSU Film. He looked darn good to me.

 

And Clemson...They get rid of the ball to fast and Watson runs to much...There isn't too much you can expect from an individual on the front 4. No matter how fast he is, Watson is gonna get away.  

[krunk]

They've posted an article on NFL.com with Tim Williams now admitting at the combine the previous failed drug tests he had in the past. So it was more than just rumors. It was true.

[Smonroe]

15 minutes ago, Freeupfreeney said:

I'm sorry dude,  are you blind.

 

How can a sack and a half and 2 pressure and 2 near pressures and 2 tackles be horrible. He didn't play that many downs, but he only had like 2 plays where he didn't have some kind of an impact.

 

What a Okay game to you? 6 sacks and 6 FF?

 

I'm not going to go back and watch it again but I believe he was unblocked on the sack, and cleanup for the half.  That LT had his way with him. 

 

Watch his game against USC, a team Bama blew out, he's invisible.  Watch the last two NC games and the Washington game.  He's fast and gets pushed right by the QB very fast too.  

 

Sorry, he had a lot of his numbers against bad teams.  He won't be seeing that in the NFL.  One thing you have to admit if you're watching as much tape on him as you claim - that Bama defense was awesome.  He had very little responsibility except to run into the backfield.  

 

The last four games, all top 20 teams - total of 2 half sacks, none in the NC.  One solo tackle in each game.  Two QB hurries, none in the playoffs. 

 

Still think I'm the blind one...dude...?

 

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

14 minutes ago, krunk said:

They've posted an article on NFL.com with Tim Williams now admitting at the combine the previous failed drug tests he had in the past. So it was more than just rumors. It was true.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000789873/article/tim-williams-acknowledges-failed-past-drug-tests-at-combine?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

I'd be fine with drafting Timmy in the 1st. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

9 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I'm not going to go back and watch it again but I believe he was unblocked on the sack, and cleanup for the half.  That LT had his way with him. 

 

Watch his game against USC, a team Bama blew out, he's invisible.  Watch the last two NC games and the Washington game.  He's fast and gets pushed right by the QB very fast too.  

 

Sorry, he had a lot of his numbers against bad teams.  He won't be seeing that in the NFL.  One thing you have to admit if you're watching as much tape on him as you claim - that Bama defense was awesome.  He had very little responsibility except to run into the backfield.  

 

The last four games, all top 20 teams - total of 2 half sacks, none in the NC.  One solo tackle in each game.  Two QB hurries, none in the playoffs. 

 

Still think I'm the blind one...dude...?

 

 

He had an amazing pass rushing grade. And apparently was the 2nd best LB at stopping the run per PFF.

He wasn't invisible in the USC tape, he had a lot of impressive plays in the Washington game. His LSU tape is good. Texas AM tape is good. Auburn tape is good. Really he has impressive plays in almost every game.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-tim-williams-olb-alabama/
I mean his only concern is that he didnt play a ton of snaps. Not a red flag to me. 

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000789873/article/tim-williams-acknowledges-failed-past-drug-tests-at-combine?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

I'd be fine with drafting Timmy in the 1st. 

He sounds mature in that article, but everybody does during this time of year. Having a Substance Abuse issue with the rules the NFL has in place could land us a player that is suspended more than playing.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, krunk said:

He sounds mature in that article, but everybody does during this time of year. Having a Substance Abuse issue with the rules the NFL has in place could land us a player that is suspended more than playing.

Sounds very mature. I don't believe he has a "substance abuse issue". I think he just smoked some pot through college. JMO. I hope Ballard spends some time with Tim.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Sounds very mature. I don't believe he has a "substance abuse issue". I think he just smoked some pot through college. JMO. I hope Ballard spends some time with Tim.

Majin you brushed the rumors aside and they are actually true. Now the second half of those rumors was that the problem was potentially as bad as Randy Gregory. That part is probably not being made up either. I'd have to have some strong convincing I think.

[Surge89]

17 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000789873/article/tim-williams-acknowledges-failed-past-drug-tests-at-combine?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

I'd be fine with drafting Timmy in the 1st. 

 

One of those rare times I disagree with you :-).  If you watch his tape he has a tendency to be swallowed.  I also believe he has some conditioning issues as his drive seems to fade if he plays a higher percentage of snaps. While he has flashes of brilliance it can be underwhelming when the next 3 or 4 snaps he gets pancaked into the ground.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

Majin you brushed the rumors aside and they are actually true. Now the second half of those rumors was that the problem was potentially as bad as Randy Gregory. That part is probably not being made up either. I'd have to have some strong convincing I think.

Because they were never a big deal to me in the first place. Did he fail a test at the combine like Mr Gregory? No. The opposite. Does he have mental issues like Mr Gregory? No.  Not even comparable at all to Gregory. Maybe Tyrann Matheiu? That comparison makes a lot more sense.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, Surge89 said:

 

One of those rare times I disagree with you :-).  If you watch his tape he has a tendency to be swallowed.  I also believe he has some conditioning issues as his drive seems to fade if he plays a higher percentage of snaps. While he has flashes of brilliance it can be underwhelming when the next 3 or 4 snaps he gets pancaked into the ground.

Hey atleast it doesn't happen often : )

But trust me ive watched his tape, mostly 2016, and I like what I see.. no he isn't perfect, but he is imo a good fit for us.

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Because they were never a big deal to me in the first place. Did he fail a test at the combine like Mr Gregory? No. Does he have mental issues like Mr Gregory? No. Not even comparable at all to Gregory. Maybe Tyrann Matheiu? That one makes a lot more sense.

Majin it is a big deal if true. If he's failing them in College with no money then what happens when he gets a ton and can buy the best available? If he really has a problem then that's going to end up being our problem. Just because he ain't failing them at the combine dont mean he doesn't have a problem. I'd have to be confident with my Vetting process. If they feel okay after doing all their homework that its okay, I mean there's no denying hes a good ball player.

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

He had an amazing pass rushing grade. And apparently was the 2nd best LB at stopping the run per PFF.

He wasn't invisible in the USC tape, he had a lot of impressive plays in the Washington game. His LSU tape is good. Texas AM tape is good. Auburn tape is good. Really he has impressive plays in almost every game.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-tim-williams-olb-alabama/
I mean his only concern is that he didnt play a ton of snaps. Not a red flag to me. 

 

Did you look at his tape or just read PFF?  He had 0 sacks and only two tackles against USC.  Half a sack against UW and one solo tackle.  0 sacks against Auburn,   half a sack against LSU.  Invisible in the NC.

 

Remember, except for the NC and LSU, Bama was blowing those teams out.  That's when they let the edge rushers loose.

 

I'm not saying he's bad, he has speed.  But I think he's way overrated based on his individual performance.   

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Majin it is a big deal if true. If he's failing them in College with no money then what happens when he gets a ton and can buy the best available? If he really has a problem then that's going to end up being our problem. Just because he ain't failing them at the combine dont mean he doesn't have a problem. I'd have to be confident with my Vetting process.

If our staff thinks he has a legit problem, then ya i'm with you. Stay away.

I'm just saying, IMO I dont think its a serious problem/i dont think he is an addict. Maybe he failed them at Bama because he knew he wouldnt be punished? I mean he never missed any playing time. I dont know. I just love Tims play and honestly love the way he carries himself. I agree on the vetting process, Ballard seems like a great guy for this. He picked Peters in the 1st even with his issues.(even though they were different)

[Andrew Luck fan club]

5 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Did you look at his tape or just read PFF?  He had 0 sacks and only two tackles against USC.  Half a sack against UW and one solo tackle.  0 sacks against Auburn,   half a sack against LSU.  Invisible in the NC.

 

Remember, except for the NC and LSU, Bama was blowing those teams out.  That's when they let the edge rushers loose.

 

I'm not saying he's bad, he has speed.  But I think he's way overrated based on his individual performance.   

 

Yes I watched his tape. I only sent the link so you can see all of his known "pro's" and "cons". And the cons are... well just not a very big deal imo. 

Just because you dont get sacks, doesnt mean you didnt have an impact. You dont judge a defenders game by his sack total. He does have great burst, he is good with his hands, has a great spin move, is good against the run. He has good size, he is strong. He actually dropped into coverage in games. He is a perfect fit for a 3-4 OLB.

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Yes I watched his tape. I only sent the link so you can see all of his known "pro's" and "cons". And the cons are... well just not a very big deal imo. 

Just because you dont get sacks, doesnt mean you didnt have an impact. You dont judge a defenders game by his sack total. He does have great burst, he is good with his hands, has a great spin move, is good against the run. He has good size, he is strong. He actually dropped into coverage in games. He is a perfect fit for a 3-4 OLB.

 

You could be right, but I just don't see a great player.  But the thing is, with how awesome that defense was, he didn't have to be great, just fit in and complement.  So in a way that works against him on tape, if you get my meaning. 

 

If you watch the games against good tackles, they seem to just run him up field.  He tore up some of the bad LTs.   

 

I've seen every Bama game but I had to go back and watch his games on YouTube. I wasn't really impressed, especially the last four games.  

 

Again, just my opinion.  

[krunk]

26 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

If our staff thinks he has a legit problem, then ya i'm with you. Stay away.

I'm just saying, IMO I dont think its a serious problem/i dont think he is an addict. Maybe he failed them at Bama because he knew he wouldnt be punished? I mean he never missed any playing time. I dont know. I just love Tims play and honestly love the way he carries himself. I agree on the vetting process, Ballard seems like a great guy for this. He picked Peters in the 1st even with his issues.(even though they were different)

I dont recall many drug guys on the Chiefs, or drafted really high by the Chiefs. Nor by the Bears. Both places Ballard was at. I could be wrong.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

You could be right, but I just don't see a great player.  But the thing is, with how awesome that defense was, he didn't have to be great, just fit in and complement.  So in a way that works against him on tape, if you get my meaning. 

 

If you watch the games against good tackles, they seem to just run him up field.  He tore up some of the bad LTs.   

 

I've seen every Bama game but I had to go back and watch his games on YouTube. I wasn't really impressed, especially the last four games.  

 

Again, just my opinion.  

Indeed....he did nothing impressive against Forrest Lamp of Western Kentucky too who projects as a guard in the NFL. No sacks 1 pressure. Fact is he kinda disappeared. He had one job primarily. He played on the best DL in football and often came in on clear passing downs on a team that was often playing with 2 or more score leads. I'm not saying he can't be a good player but I'm not seeing the risk reward on a 1st rd pick for a guy with this many question marks. If you give me the choice I several guys over him...including the prementioned Lamp.

[Freeupfreeney]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Did you look at his tape or just read PFF?  He had 0 sacks and only two tackles against USC.  Half a sack against UW and one solo tackle.  0 sacks against Auburn,   half a sack against LSU.  Invisible in the NC.

 

Remember, except for the NC and LSU, Bama was blowing those teams out.  That's when they let the edge rushers loose.

 

I'm not saying he's bad, he has speed.  But I think he's way overrated based on his individual performance.   

 

I posted the LSU Video, and he posted a sack in the First few minutes of the game. its was the first play on the video...soooo.

 

I mean, Taco Charlton is the guy you should be concerned about. The only reason he got as many sack as he did, is because it was like Michigan would never stop blitzing. I'd watch him lazily take off play just waiting for his buddies to open a lane for him.

 

The spread out wide for all in pass rush that he would sometimes get pressures on.

 

That's not the case with Williams. He made sacks and pressures when everybody else got stuffed.

 

Taco made some individual plays, but he benefited more from his teammates than Williams did.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

You draft off of potential, not their college stats.