5 Sacks and no answers from the "Coach"

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 minutes ago, will426 said:

Yeah I remember him saying that too but I haven't seen it much or if any at all lol Im just basing it off what I've seen and if we are running zone it's a horrible version 

I agree

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, will426 said:

Yeah I remember him saying that too but I haven't seen it much or if any at all lol Im just basing it off what I've seen and if we are running zone it's a horrible version 

 

Not sure why it's a "horrible version"....

 

In the 5 years of the Luck/Grigson/Pagano group,  this is the best running attack we've had --- by far!

 

If this is horrible,  then I'll take more please!

 

[will426]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Not sure why it's a "horrible version"....

 

In the 5 years of the Luck/Grigson/Pagano group,  this is the best running attack we've had --- by far!

 

If this is horrible,  then I'll take more please!

 

Lol I mean it's horrible compared to others zone schemes but it's the best it's been... Just wish they'd run gore more I get they wanna keep him fresh but man let that man run wild  when he's hot  if he wants to be taken out that's different but don't pull him out

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, will426 said:

Lol I mean it's horrible compared to others zone schemes but it's the best it's been... Just wish they'd run gore more I get they wanna keep him fresh but man let that man run wild  when he's hot  if he wants to be taken out that's different but don't pull him out

 

I hear you on Gore....    I love the guy.

 

But the Colts are trying to make sure that not only is he available for all 16 games,  but for the playoffs too.

 

Old guys have a tendency to get really old, really fast and suddenly --- almost overnight --- their play can fall off a map.     I mean, just up and disappear.

 

Clearly,  we don't want that to happen.....    

 

Believe me,  I'd like nothing more than 100 yards on 20-something carries.....     but if we do that,  we're likely not to get much out of Gore come December/January.

 

 

[JPFolks]

On 10/10/2016 at 2:28 PM, bababooey said:

If the run blocking is so good why do we take Gore out so early? I know we are usually playing catch up towards the end of the game so throwing more but it seems lately that Gore is on his way to breaking the 100 yard mark early on and then they throw Ferguson out there or in short yardage situations they underutilize him.

Because he's ancient and likely is out of gas.  Sure, we don't know for sure except for that age old cliche about Father Time.   I think the real shame is they don't mix in more RB dump offs with a real running back in the game.  Ferguson has shown no rushing viability so every defense knows that as well.  Sure he catches some dump downs but he's no rushing threat.  Put one of the other 3 backs in and throw the same dump downs while making play action legitimate to the defense.  

[JPFolks]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Not sure why it's a "horrible version"....

 

In the 5 years of the Luck/Grigson/Pagano group,  this is the best running attack we've had --- by far!

 

If this is horrible,  then I'll take more please!

 

You want more of 0 100 yard rushing games? We are averaging 90 team rushing yards per game good for 19th in the league.  Gore  is rushing well, however, but he is either too brittle to risk rushing him a real NFL running back, or the coaches are blowing it.   He's averaging a good number (around 4.5 yards per carry) but they seem unwilling to have him rush it 22 times a game.  

 

I get the argument that he's on a pitch count.  But if we're losing along the way, there's nothing TO save him for later.  You have to do anything you can to win each game, especially now.  I am hoping we'll see Gore break the 100 yard in a game drought on our way to winning the most important regular season game of Luck's career.  This is essentially a playoff game (as I have broken down on another post).  Run Gore to his max potential this game or why bother? 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

You want more of 0 100 yard rushing games? We are averaging 90 team rushing yards per game good for 19th in the league.  Gore  is rushing well, however, but he is either too brittle to risk rushing him a real NFL running back, or the coaches are blowing it.   He's averaging a good number (around 4.5 yards per carry) but they seem unwilling to have him rush it 22 times a game.  

 

I get the argument that he's on a pitch count.  But if we're losing along the way, there's nothing TO save him for later.  You have to do anything you can to win each game, especially now.  I am hoping we'll see Gore break the 100 yard in a game drought on our way to winning the most important regular season game of Luck's career.  This is essentially a playoff game (as I have broken down on another post).  Run Gore to his max potential this game or why bother? 

 

Because the team is convinced that Gore can't last the 16 games plus the playoffs with him running wild.

 

He doesn't have a history that suggest more than 300 touches is a good thing for him.

 

by the way,  I'm expecting this 0-line to get better as the season progresses,  so I think Gore will also get better as the season goes.      I think our run game will be better.....     at least,  that's the hope.      The lack of the 100 yard rusher is not so much on Gore as it is on the back-up.     If we had a better back-up to go along with a better line the Colts would be rushing for more than 100 yards.

 

My comment was only trying to compare what we have this year with what we've had the last 4 years.    And I think what we've had this year has been much better.

 

 

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

You want more of 0 100 yard rushing games? We are averaging 90 team rushing yards per game good for 19th in the league.  Gore  is rushing well, however, but he is either too brittle to risk rushing him a real NFL running back, or the coaches are blowing it.   He's averaging a good number (around 4.5 yards per carry) but they seem unwilling to have him rush it 22 times a game.  

 

I get the argument that he's on a pitch count.  But if we're losing along the way, there's nothing TO save him for later.  You have to do anything you can to win each game, especially now.  I am hoping we'll see Gore break the 100 yard in a game drought on our way to winning the most important regular season game of Luck's career.  This is essentially a playoff game (as I have broken down on another post).  Run Gore to his max potential this game or why bother? 

I concur

[JPFolks]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Because the team is convinced that Gore can't last the 16 games plus the playoffs with him running wild.

 

He doesn't have a history that suggest more than 300 touches is a good thing for him.

 

by the way,  I'm expecting this 0-line to get better as the season progresses,  so I think Gore will also get better as the season goes.      I think our run game will be better.....     at least,  that's the hope.      The lack of the 100 yard rusher is not so much on Gore as it is on the back-up.     If we had a better back-up to go along with a better line the Colts would be rushing for more than 100 yards.

 

My comment was only trying to compare what we have this year with what we've had the last 4 years.    And I think what we've had this year has been much better.

 

 

 

You have to give the back ups (and here I mean Turbin and Todman) more than a couple carries a game at most for them to have any chance to get into the game and produce.  When they run Ferguson, it's like watching Trent Richardson run... 1 yard and done often.  Turbin and Todman can catch AND run.. why not give them Ferguson's plays, to either one, and get them in the game?  I'd be fine with giving Gore his 14 measly carries if we also gave Turbin 14 as well.  

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

You have to give the back ups (and here I mean Turbin and Todman) more than a couple carries a game at most for them to have any chance to get into the game and produce.  When they run Ferguson, it's like watching Trent Richardson run... 1 yard and done often.  Turbin and Todman can catch AND run.. why not give them Ferguson's plays, to either one, and get them in the game?  I'd be fine with giving Gore his 14 measly carries if we also gave Turbin 14 as well.  

 

I'd like to give Turbin more,  but not as many as Gore.....      your mileage may vary....

 

I'd like to throw it just a little bit less.

 

I love Ferguson....    I don't like it when we run to him, because he's clearly not comfortable that way.    I think he'll be much, much better next year.

 

But I think he can be a weapon in the passing game.     I'm not sure we're using him effectively and I think a number of Luck's passes to him have been very poor.      I think he's had more poor throws to Ferguson than to any other receiver.      It's like he lobs the ball to him and the pass runs out of energy and dies just at Ferguson's finger-tips.      Drives me crazy.       Throw him the damn ball and let him catch it.      Enough with these creme puff passes.

 

And if it's still a problem,  then get Todman in there for him.

I"m just happy we have even a little bit of a running game.     I hope we see some of it tomorrow night.

 

 

[chrisfarley]

We will protect Andrew in Houston.  There are paychecks on the line for some.  You keep letting him get hit/sacked, heads will roll but not AC.  They'll use other scape-goats if it happens, but I think it will be a marked improvement for this game.

[JPFolks]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd like to give Turbin more,  but not as many as Gore.....      your mileage may vary....

 

I'd like to throw it just a little bit less.

 

I love Ferguson....    I don't like it when we run to him, because he's clearly not comfortable that way.    I think he'll be much, much better next year.

 

But I think he can be a weapon in the passing game.     I'm not sure we're using him effectively and I think a number of Luck's passes to him have been very poor.      I think he's had more poor throws to Ferguson than to any other receiver.      It's like he lobs the ball to him and the pass runs out of energy and dies just at Ferguson's finger-tips.      Drives me crazy.       Throw him the damn ball and let him catch it.      Enough with these creme puff passes.

 

And if it's still a problem,  then get Todman in there for him.

I"m just happy we have even a little bit of a running game.     I hope we see some of it tomorrow night.

 

 

If we want to win, we better see some run game.  This really should be the game to turn Gore loose to the best of his ability.  Obviously if he's too tired or whatever, you take him out, like any other starting RB, but if you could justify holding him back in other games, this is not the one to do it.  If he has 150 yards on 26 carries in him, we need it.. desperately.  

[A8bil]

Re Gore:

 

Ponder this:  the Colts right now are 6th in the league in total offensive plays with just over 67 plays per game.  In terms of running plays, the Colts are 26th in the league at 22.4 attempts per game, with Luck taking 3 per game.  That means a total of 19.4 carries per game for all RBs. The idea that Gore or the RBs should be given 10 more touches with the ball just ignores what is happening in the game.  These stats reflect a team that cannot sustain drives early on, and then falls behind and needs to play catch up, which dictates a rotation to passing.   

 

If the Colts can sustain more drives early on and have more success early in the games, they should get more in balance, where there are closer to 30+ running plays per game.  If that happens, you'll see Gore get more carries, as well as Turbin and Ferguson.

 

Some other thoughts:  (1) No NFL team is going to not run because they think their back is incapable.  They'll simply put in someone who can.  If the game situation calls for a run, they'll run. (2) I think you guys don't realize that there is little difference between Gore running the ball and just running plays.  When he doesn't get the ball, he is picking up blitzing linebackers, crashing into the line as a decoy, or going into pattern and laying downfield blocks.  All of that wears on him just as running the ball does.  It's not like he's lying on a featherbed when he's not running the ball.  If he's on the field, he can run many more plays that what he is currently doing.  

 

And no, the posters here trying to draw conclusions off of the number of runs Gore was getting in SF are not correct.  Gore was not on any run count there.  They were running a read option so Kaepernick was getting a lot of carries Gore might get.    Then...they just started to get worse as a team, as they lost linemen in free agency and to injury.  In 2011, 49er RBs had 423 carries between them.  In 2013 they were down to 393, a drop of 30 carries (2 per game), and by 2014, RBs were down to 340 carries.  That's 83 less carries than in 2011, a drop of over 5 carries per game.  That's why Gores carries were down, not some perception he couldn't handle the load.  You guys are pulling stuff out of your nether regions.

[A8bil]

43 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

 I'd be fine with giving Gore his 14 measly carries if we also gave Turbin 14 as well.  

There aren't 28 carries for the RBs in this offense.  19 carries is what they are producing now.

[JPFolks]

8 hours ago, A8bil said:

There aren't 28 carries for the RBs in this offense.  19 carries is what they are producing now.

Well, Gore averages 4.5 yards per carry, so really there is no reason at all there isn't 28 carries available.  Especially if you want to use ball control to protect our weakling defense. 

[King Colt]

Pagano always sounds like he is arid to say something his bosses will not like. Parcels and Ditka spoke their minds and temperaments which is rare these days.

[A8bil]

6 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Well, Gore averages 4.5 yards per carry, so really there is no reason at all there isn't 28 carries available.  Especially if you want to use ball control to protect our weakling defense. 

In theory. I have not looked at the stats, but my guess is that the Colts have a fairly balanced  offense in the first half, with equal run/pass plays--there just aren't that many because they are not sustaining drives.  However, in the second half, the plays are skewed toward passing because they've fallen behind.  

 

All teams need a balanced attack of running and passing to have success in either area.  No team can simply impose its will in a running game and get 4.5 YPC every play.  The last team who tried was the 1983 Redskins, but the most they could achieve with Riggins was 3.6 YPC. If a defense knows you're running the ball, they can shut it down.  Look at Gurley this year.  He's a great back but he's getting crushed because they have no passing game.

 

The Colts need a better passing game early in games to sustain drives and keep defenses honest, IMO.  

 

 

[JPFolks]

5 hours ago, A8bil said:

In theory. I have not looked at the stats, but my guess is that the Colts have a fairly balanced  offense in the first half, with equal run/pass plays--there just aren't that many because they are not sustaining drives.  However, in the second half, the plays are skewed toward passing because they've fallen behind.  

 

All teams need a balanced attack of running and passing to have success in either area.  No team can simply impose its will in a running game and get 4.5 YPC every play.  The last team who tried was the 1983 Redskins, but the most they could achieve with Riggins was 3.6 YPC. If a defense knows you're running the ball, they can shut it down.  Look at Gurley this year.  He's a great back but he's getting crushed because they have no passing game.

 

The Colts need a better passing game early in games to sustain drives and keep defenses honest, IMO.  

 

 

The stats don't bear out balance.  

 

112 Rushes or just over 24 per game. 

205 Passes or 41 per game

 

I was calling for Gore and company (excluding Ferguson who can't rush) to run more. Gore has had 78 attempts which is only 15.6 carries.  He needs over 21-25 and the rest need a solid 10-14 or so for real balance. I would suggest every third drive you put in Turbin, or for a couple plays mid drive to give Gore a break if he's tired. 

 

The team altogether averages 4.0 but much of that loss from Gores ave, comes from ineffective Ferguson who gets 1 yard per carry.  Luck gets over 5 to bring the average back up and is our 2nd leading rusher. 

 

Look, it isn't difficult, the back-up needs enough carries to get into the flow of the game. One carry now and then is ineffective.  Use them!.