Fleener -- cool stat

[Indygal1218]

but god that drop may have cost is that game. .... I still remember it the chargers all but gave us a touchdown b4 the half.. However love fleener just reminiscing

I remember that drop. I was so po'd at him for weeks. I rarely yell at my TV, but I cussed at it for that one. I think there was some stomping involved, too.

[Jason_]

So a player who has nearly every single one of his counterparts who he competes with for catches out, is supposed to play worse?...Ty Hilton disagrees with that argument....Harry Douglas, Keenan Allen do as well.....Why are guys like Josh Gordon/Jordan Cameron able to perform, even tho the opposing team know its just those 2, and "tougher coverage made passes more difficult to catch"?.... 

 

If you wanted to make the claim that Cobys YPR would go up with Wayne/Allen, perhaps I'd get behind that statement. 

 

 

who said anything about "supposed to play worse?"  that makes no sense at all.  I was saying that with Wayne and Allen out, and DHB not being able to catch the ball, that allowed defenses to focus their coverage on Fleener and Hilton.  That would make it more difficult for Fleener and Hilton to get open and even when they did briefly get open, having extra coverage focused on them meant there was always going to be a defender nearby to try to swat the ball away.  It had nothing to do with Fleener or Hilton playing worse, but rather the defense being able to make their jobs much more difficult with no other true threats to worry about at the time.

 

And as crazycolt mentioned, the OL didn't do any favors either by generally allowing instant pressure on Luck.

[lollygagger8]

Or line up in a single back formation, just to change the play and have Fleener or Allen shift over to the slot, having a LBer covering. Luck can make it a pass or run play.

Or line up in Trips, with Allen, Fleener, and T.Y. in the bunch. There's some nice possibilities with bubble screens in that.

Agreed!

 

BOOYAH!!! 

[IndyTrav]

who said anything about "supposed to play worse?"  that makes no sense at all.  I was saying that with Wayne and Allen out, and DHB not being able to catch the ball, that allowed defenses to focus their coverage on Fleener and Hilton.  That would make it more difficult for Fleener and Hilton to get open and even when they did briefly get open, having extra coverage focused on them meant there was always going to be a defender nearby to try to swat the ball away.  It had nothing to do with Fleener or Hilton playing worse, but rather the defense being able to make their jobs much more difficult with no other true threats to worry about at the time.

 

And as crazycolt mentioned, the OL didn't do any favors either by generally allowing instant pressure on Luck.

 

Again, why are other players able to excel when "defenses focus their coverage". Why was Hilton able to take his game to the next level, in the exact same situation that Fleener was in? 

 

Why do other players in the NFL succeed when the players competing for receptions are lost for the season? Why was Harry Douglas able to have a career year after Julio/Roddy were lost or hobbled? Why was a rookie Keenan Allen able to do the exact same thing? Why are Gordon/Cameron able to flourish with a garbage team, as the only 2 options on a team of misfits? 

[Jason_]

Again, why are other players able to excel when "defenses focus their coverage". Why was Hilton able to take his game to the next level, in the exact same situation that Fleener was in? 

 

Why do other players in the NFL succeed when the players competing for receptions are lost for the season? Why was Harry Douglas able to have a career year after Julio/Roddy were lost or hobbled? Why was a rookie Keenan Allen able to do the exact same thing? Why are Gordon/Cameron able to flourish with a garbage team, as the only 2 options on a team of misfits? 

 

Just off the top of my head, those teams have far better offensive lines that allow the QB a little more time to scan the field, and a little more time for receivers to actually run their routes.

 

Fleener was also targeted 87 times versus 132 targets for Harry Douglas, 118 for Jordan Cameron and 159 for Gordon.  He can't make the catches if he doesn't get thrown to.  And before you reply with "well the fewer targets show that he couldn't get open"...yes that's true.  But without going through each individual game again no one can say WHY he was unable to get open.  Is it because he's a bad route runner?  Is it because more coverage was focused on him to take him out of the game?  Is it because teams were jamming him at the LOS knowing that pressure would get to the QB long before he could disengage and get out on a route?  Or is it because he was asked to stay in to help block more often than the other guys on the list?

[Coffeedrinker]

Again, why are other players able to excel when "defenses focus their coverage". Why was Hilton able to take his game to the next level, in the exact same situation that Fleener was in? 

 

Why do other players in the NFL succeed when the players competing for receptions are lost for the season? Why was Harry Douglas able to have a career year after Julio/Roddy were lost or hobbled? Why was a rookie Keenan Allen able to do the exact same thing? Why are Gordon/Cameron able to flourish with a garbage team, as the only 2 options on a team of misfits? 

 

 

Just off the top of my head, those teams have far better offensive lines that allow the QB a little more time to scan the field, and a little more time for receivers to actually run their routes.

You both are looking at the wrong things to base improvement upon.  Yes, his number improved as they should have...2nd year, Wayne and Allen being out, Luck's improvement, etc.  But the areas to look at for improvement are finding the open area in the zone, reading things the same at the QB, gaining separation from LBers or safeties in man coverage, blocking, etc.

 

To me, Fleener showed a lot of improvement in finding the soft spots in zone coverage, his blocking got a lot better throughout the course of the year although he is still mainly just a shield type blocker and he seemed to be on the same page as Luck but that is hard to tell just by watching the games.  The areas where I still think he is weak are in route getting separtation when being man covered, he still lumbers a bit in his break and gives away when he is going to break. 

 

But if you guys want to keep arguing back and forth about his catch improvement and the reasons for it, then carry on.

[throwing BBZ]

Fleener and Allen will be a lethal combo next year. There's no defense in the league that could cover Fleener, Allen, Wayne, T.Y. and ______ (Rogers, Whalen, Brazil) all at the same time. 

 

 

They don`t have to cover more than 2.

Andrew STRUGGLES looking past his primary receiver. Hopefully he adds seeing and throwing more accurately to that 2nd progression in year 3.

Then in year 4...

[lollygagger8]

They don`t have to cover more than 2.

Andrew STRUGGLES looking past his primary receiver. Hopefully he adds seeing and throwing more accurately to that 2nd progression in year 3.

Then in year 4...

 

Cmon man....... Really? 

 

 

Second Season Stats: Andrew Luck vs. Peyton Manning  

                        Comp. %      YDS     YPA      TD    INT    RAT

Andrew Luck       59.5         3,776    6.64     23     10     86.0

Peyton Manning  62.1         4,135    7.76     26     15     90.7