My Crack at a final 53 (Way Too Early)

[Coffeedrinker]

I havent rewatched any of the games from last year except the first game vs Texans but Im not sold Reitz by a long shot, the left side of that line was terrible in that game at best, I would start Hayworth Hicks over Reitz, he absolutely demolishes nearly every defensive tackle or linebacker he touches

You came to this conclusion based on the highlight reel of a college player vs the game of a player who is playing in his first ever NFL game against a pretty good defense?

I'm sure your bias didn't play any part in that evaluation. :rolleyes:

[KarlKuffs]

Fortunately no other team in the NFL needed a guard that demolishes every DT and LB he comes in contact with.

Since you won't get an answer from the person to whom the question was posed; the best I can tell from his highlight reel is because he's a bit slow footed, once he's engaged he seems oblivious to what is going on around him and his mobility is poor because he keeps his feet too far apart. Judging, again only by the highlight reel, Hicks has some potential but he's a good year perhaps two from being able to provide consistent snaps.

Good response.

Given what you said, I can only conclude that:

1) Hicks seems to be a perfect practice squad type player

2) Any projection that has Hicks penciled in as a starting guard game 1 of this season is patently absurd, and any person who makes said projection has a questionable at best football IQ

[Coffeedrinker]

Good response.

Given what you said, I can only conclude that:

1) Hicks seems to be a perfect practice squad type player

I think so. About like Mike Tepper was last year... PS until the injuries really piled up, then move to the active squad only to let people see why he was on the practice squad.

2) Any projection that has Hicks penciled in as a starting guard game 1 of this season is patently absurd, and any person who makes said projection has a questionable at best football IQ

Well, I don't know about that (since big brother is watching) but I played offensive line for 8 years, coached offensive line (pop warner level) for another numerous years and one of the few people who purchase NFL game rewind just so I can watch the offensive line and grade out the players; and I don't see anything even from his highlights that would indicate he has the potential to be a day one starter.

But I could very well be wrong. It has happened, albeit rarely, in the past.

[KarlKuffs]

I think so. About like Mike Tepper was last year... PS until the injuries really piled up, then move to the active squad only to let people see why he was on the practice squad.

Well, I don't know about that (since big brother is watching) but I played offensive line for 8 years, coached offensive line (pop warner level) for another numerous years and one of the few people who purchase NFL game rewind just so I can watch the offensive line and grade out the players; and I don't see anything even from his highlights that would indicate he has the potential to be a day one starter.

But I could very well be wrong. It has happened, albeit rarely, in the past.

You mean besides the absolute demolition of nearly every defensive tackle or linebacker he touches, of course.

[Gavin]

You came to this conclusion based on the highlight reel of a college player vs the game of a player who is playing in his first ever NFL game against a pretty good defense?

I'm sure your bias didn't play any part in that evaluation. :rolleyes:

No actually Im not sold on Reitz because he was Center for Western Michigan basketball team and was signed as an undrafted free agent to play Tight End by the Ravens and now we expect him to be a Guard in the National Football League after playing in 11 games and starting 9? seriously? he also gave up two sacks

[Coffeedrinker]

You mean besides the absolute demolition of nearly every defensive tackle or linebacker he touches, of course.

Well, yeah, beside that.

[Coffeedrinker]

No actually Im not sold on Reitz because he was Center for Western Michigan basketball team and was signed as an undrafted free agent to play Tight End by the Ravens and now we expect him to be a Guard in the National Football League after playing in 11 games and starting 9? seriously?

Actually he was signed by the Ravens as a tackle prospect. And actually he is a guard in the NFL, played and started at that position in 2011. Lastly, he spent two years on the Ravens PS, spent another year on the Colts PS and then a year as a starter. That is pretty amazing for a guy who did not play football in college.

It's funny though... Reitz didn't play college football and he was an UDFA. Hicks played college football and he was an UDFA. of course the difference is that Reitz has worked hard and paid his dues at the NFL level. Hicks has not. If he, Hicks, proves the have the desire and work ethic and ability to take the teachings of the coaches and translate it on the field, he very well could have a good NFL career. But that is yet to be determined.

[Gavin]

its really simple, if you want the best shot to win games and do good then you draft players from college to play their natural positions for the most part, not to switch them around on the line or a undrafted player that was brought into a team in the first place to play Tight End and then say oh we will stick you at Guard good luck learning buddy do the best you can, let me be clear their are exception, Antonio Gates for one I know but he is a Tight End, he came into the league being able to jump at catch besides Guard is a whole other animal especially for a former basketball player

[Gavin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Reitz he was brought in to play Tight End but groomed to play tackle, he played 9 games as a starter and we are ready to crown him the starter at Guard? Hicks played 4 years at Guard, Ill take the guy who played 4 years of it even if it was in college over a guy who played 9 games

[Coffeedrinker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Reitz he was brought in to play Tight End but groomed to play tackle, he played 9 games as a starter and we are ready to crown him the starter at Guard? Hicks played 4 years at Guard, Ill take the guy who played 4 years of it even if it was in college over a guy who played 9 games

Woo hoo, wikapedia. The place to go when you want to know what might be true and accurate. Like I stated he was groomed to play tackle. And that is what he was listed as for the two years he spent on the the Ravens PS. And he was listed as a tackle for his year on the Colts practice squad.

As far as crowning him the starter at guard.... since Reitz and McGlynn are the only guards on the Colts roster that have, you know, started an NFL game, I'd say that gives both of them the edge as the starters. Because guess what, what either did in college does not matter... it is what they do in the NFL. So far Reitz has proven he has what it takes to play in the NFL. Hicks has yet to prove that.

I know you have a man-crush on Hicks and that's cool we all get a player that we see something and get head over heels about it. But answer karlKuffs question; if Hicks is so good why was he not drafted?

[Gavin]

Woo hoo, wikapedia. The place to go when you want to know what might be true and accurate. Like I stated he was groomed to play tackle. And that is what he was listed as for the two years he spent on the the Ravens PS. And he was listed as a tackle for his year on the Colts practice squad.

As far as crowning him the starter at guard.... since Reitz and McGlynn are the only guards on the Colts roster that have, you know, started an NFL game, I'd say that gives both of them the edge as the starters. Because guess what, what either did in college does not matter... it is what they do in the NFL. So far Reitz has proven he has what it takes to play in the NFL. Hicks has yet to prove that.

I know you have a man-crush on Hicks and that's cool we all get a player that we see something and get head over heels about it. But answer karlKuffs question; if Hicks is so good why was he not drafted?

small college and poor footwork likely same reason Reitz wasnt that and their is the former basketball player thing, although we are still comparing apples to oranges considering Hicks actually has played Guard before he got to the NFL

[Gavin]

In other words I will take the guy with poor foot work who played the position in college against 300 plus pound D Lineman vs a guy with poor footwork who didnt get that experience in college

[KarlKuffs]

small college and poor footwork likely same reason Reitz wasnt that and their is the former basketball player thing, although we are still comparing apples to oranges considering Hicks actually has played Guard before he got to the NFL

Small college? Iowa State University from the Big 12 is a small college?

And I might be wrong here, but wasn't Reitz, being that he WAS a former bball player, brought into the NFL to be groomed on the practice squad to be an OL in large part BECAUSE of his excellent footwork?

[Coffeedrinker]

small college and poor footwork likely same reason Reitz wasnt that and their is the former basketball player thing, although we are still comparing apples to oranges considering Hicks actually has played Guard before he got to the NFL

Small college? Iowa state in the Big 12 is a small college? Not a football powerhouse that is true, but not a small school. Plus that excuse doesn't fly.

Joe Looney is from as small a school and has poor footwork and he was drafted.

Gino Gradowski is from a small school and he was drafted... and he didn't demolish every DT and LB he touched.

Andrew Tiller is from as small a school and has poor footwork and he was drafted.

And yes we are comparing apples and oranges. Reitz actually has played guard in the NFL.

[Gavin]

if you want to take a former basketball player to play Guard be my guest, I will take Hicks any day

[Coffeedrinker]

Small college? Iowa State University from the Big 12 is a small college?

And I might be wrong here, but wasn't Reitz, being that he WAS a former bball player, brought into the NFL to be groomed on the practice squad to be an OL in large part BECAUSE of his excellent footwork?

That's what it said in his wikipedia link. Well it stated athleticism which for olineman usually means footwork.

[Coffeedrinker]

if you want to take a former basketball player to play Guard be my guest, I will take Hicks any day

That is the big point you are missing... Who cares what they did in college, Reitz has been in the NFL for 4 years, he has started games in the NFL at guard and did pretty well. Hicks could not convince teams as a two year starter in college that is a good enough player to be drafted.

[Gavin]

That is the big point you are missing... Who cares what they did in college, Reitz has been in the NFL for 4 years, he has started games in the NFL at guard and did pretty well. Hicks could not convince teams as a two year starter in college that is a good enough player to be drafted.

giving up 2 sacks in 11 games is good? granted its not atrocious compared to how Linkenbach did but I dont consider it good

[KarlKuffs]

That is the big point you are missing... Who cares what they did in college, Reitz has been in the NFL for 4 years, he has started games in the NFL at guard and did pretty well. Hicks could not convince teams as a two year starter in college that is a good enough player to be drafted.

Yeah, i'm still not grasping why I should take a guy who played guard in college but was not identified by any of the 32 NFL franchises as someone who should be drafted in any of the 7 rounds, and who has yet to play guard in the NFL, nor even make an NFL roster.....over a guy who HAS started at guard in the NFL.....only becuase the former played guard in college?

There's got to be several hundred guys who played guard in college last year. Should we take any of them over Reitz for no reason other than they played guard in college and he didn't?

[ztboiler]

if you want to take a former basketball player to play Guard be my guest, I will take Hicks any day

I'm a fan of Hicks as well, but you seem to be really confident in projecting a player that every GM was suspicious would not make a roster. Since most 7th round draft choices are cut, it is a fair bet that all 32 teams, Colts included, would've drafted Hicks if they were confident he'd make the squad.

[Gavin]

Comparing the same thing in Reitz and Hicks as far as not being drafted so that hold no water and yes I will start a guy at Guard whos played more games at Guard who is by far more nasty and physical who despite the footwork appeared to be a good pass blocker as well over a guy who only played barely over a handful of games

[Coffeedrinker]

giving up 2 sacks in 11 games is good? granted its not atrocious compared to how Linkenbach did but I dont consider it good

It is, like I said, playing pretty well. That is averaging 1 sack every 5.5 games. Carl Nicks, one of the best guards in the NFL has averaged 1 sack every 4.92 games.

Ben Grubbs, whom I wanted the Colts to sign this offseason, gave up 2.5 sacks in 10 games last season.

Davin Joseph, arguably a top 5 guard have up 2.5 sacks in 16 games last season.

So yes, 2 sacks in 11 games for a first time NFL starter is playing pretty well.

[Gavin]

The only thing I know is we will wait to see what happens this season, Im not puttin all my money on Reitz I didnt like what I saw

[Coffeedrinker]

Comparing the same thing in Reitz and Hicks as far as not being drafted so that hold no water and yes I will start a guy at Guard whos played more games at Guard who is by far more nasty and physical who despite the footwork appeared to be a good pass blocker as well over a guy who only played barely over a handful of games

You're willing to start him because you saw his highlight reel from college? To you it doesn't matter what he does in OTAs, Minicamp or preseason?

If Reitz and Hicks were both rookie UDFA I would completely agree that Hicks has the advantage over Reitz. But you want to act like an UDFA rookie has an advantage over a 4 year NFL veteran. That is not based in reality no matter how you try to say it.

[Coffeedrinker]

The only thing I know is we will wait to see what happens this season,

How come you never respond to the points you tried to make but get shot down.

Im not puttin all my money on Reitz

Neither am I. I don't bet on players

I didnt like what I saw

That really doesn't mean much.

[Gavin]

We couldnt run the ball between the tackles well unless we used a fullback or in the biggest run of Donald Browns case a play broke down and he bounced outside

[Gavin]

You're willing to start him because you saw his highlight reel from college? To you it doesn't matter what he does in OTAs, Minicamp or preseason?

If Reitz and Hicks were both rookie UDFA I would completely agree that Hicks has the advantage over Reitz. But you want to act like an UDFA rookie has an advantage over a 4 year NFL veteran. That is not based in reality no matter how you try to say it.

I actually agree but I do certainly like Hicks physicality much more then Reitz thats needed on our line

[Coffeedrinker]

I actually agree but I do certainly like Hicks physicality much more then Reitz thats needed on our line

I like certain things about Hicks as well, not the least of which is his upper and lower body strength. And the little I've seen and read about him, I think he will pay dividends for the Colts... in a year or two, perhaps take over for McGlynn.

[Gavin]

I like certain things about Hicks as well, not the least of which is his upper and lower body strength. And the little I've seen and read about him, I think he will pay dividends for the Colts... in a year or two, perhaps take over for McGlynn.

I honestly expect Reitz to start I just remember whatchimg him get bullied especially on bull rushes, i wish I had kept the games I recorded last year on my DVR, I just see Hicks bringing physicality to the game that I havent seen in Reitz

[NewColtsFan]

why do people think Whalen is horrible? He started the season off sluggish and then came alive in the last 9 or so games. Almost all of his 740+ yards cam in the last 9 games. He had a good stretch of 470+ yards in 5 games. He was underused at Stanford becuase they are a power running team that rarely fell behind. When you watch "Andrew Luck vs. (team name here)" games on youtube, its hard not to notice him

As a long time Stanford fan and someone who thinks Whalen won't make the roster please don't misunderstand me. To be clear, Whalen is definitely NOT horrible. Far from it. He's a talented kid that *might* make the roster. I just think it's more of a long shot than likely. I just think there's a big difference between being a good college WR and being a good NFL WR. I think Whalen did fine against zone coverage.... but less well against man-to-man. Let's just say he's limited. And he's surprisingly athletic. But only up to a point. Could he make the roster? Yes. Will he? I wouldn't bet on it. Again, he's NOT terrible.

[NewColtsFan]

Good to know, coming from someone who's seen him a lot. I assume you're a new Colts fan because of the Stanford connections.

Welcome to the team and the forum!

Thanks, Smonroe for the welcome. Yes, the Stanford connections clearly bring me here. But I also like the new hires of GM and HC. I think both come from exceptionally good franchises. So, I think they both know how to build a winning program. So, I'm optimistic the Colts have the right people in the right places. And I'm patient -- almost to a fault. And I think patience will be needed here. This is more a tear-down then a rebuild. Think there will be lots of new pieces needed to get over a .500 record. I see roughly 5-6 wins this year. But we got the right piece in the right place with Andrew. He IS the Real Deal. You won't regret taking him!

NCF