Trade for Hopkins? (Merge)

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Fans here don’t know this, but Roseman has missed three times on high round wide receivers.   
 

Missing on Reagor is the biggest and worst.   But he also missed on JJ Arceaga Whiteside, a second round pick, and Nelson Agalor,  a first round pick. 
 

Roseman has clearly done a great job,  but WR is a position he has struggled with drafting. 

Oh I know this, I pay attention to the draft. I was telling one of my best friends the Eagles could have had Jefferson, Brown, and Smith if they would have taken the higher ranked WR in Jefferson over Reagor. That one was truly a stunner. 

[Nate!]

19 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Oh I know this, I pay attention to the draft. I was telling one of my best friends the Eagles could have had Jefferson, Brown, and Smith if they would have taken the higher ranked WR in Jefferson over Reagor. That one was truly a stunner. 

They get Jefferson instead of Reagor, whole dynamics of the team changes and likely don’t get Smith or maybe even Brown.   Hard to sub in likely future hall of famer Jefferson and expect nothing to change

[NewColtsFan]

56 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Oh I know this, I pay attention to the draft. I was telling one of my best friends the Eagles could have had Jefferson, Brown, and Smith if they would have taken the higher ranked WR in Jefferson over Reagor. That one was truly a stunner. 

I know you know this, but the majority of fans here don’t.   Fans see the great success the Eagles have had and assume they haven’t had many failures.  That’s not the case.    Every team has misses,  even the successful ones.   

[VikingsFanInChennai]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

There is a reason O'Brien traded him for so little . The market dictates your value. If O'Brien could have gotten more  than a 2nd, he would have. It tells me that the league has a lot of knowledge with  regards to Hopkins and his supposed issues.

Two things.

 

O'Brien is not a good example to cite for anything other than, maybe, his offensive system. Texans didn't really handle lot of contract, draft or free agency moves well even while drafting a franchise QB in Watson and an elite pass rusher in JJ Watt. Still getting second round pick is high enough with offloading contract for an elite receiver. 

 

Secondly, whatever Hopkins' issues supposedly were, his production has always been solid so teams would go for him until he can bring them elite production.

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Two things.

 

O'Brien is not a good example to cite for anything other than, maybe, his offensive system. Texans didn't really handle lot of contract, draft or free agency moves well even while drafting a franchise QB in Watson and an elite pass rusher in JJ Watt. Still getting second round pick is high enough with offloading contract for an elite receiver. 

 

Secondly, whatever Hopkins' issues supposedly were, his production has always been solid so teams would go for him until he can bring them elite production.

Eh maybe, look at AB and OBJ… 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Fans here don’t know this, but Roseman has missed three times on high round wide receivers.   
 

Missing on Reagor is the biggest and worst.   But he also missed on JJ Arceaga Whiteside, a second round pick, and Nelson Agalor,  a first round pick. 
 

Roseman has clearly done a great job,  but WR is a position he has struggled with drafting. 

Agholor was hand picked by Chip Kelly, Roseman was not having control over that draft, IIRC.

 

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I know you know this, but the majority of fans here don’t.   Fans see the great success the Eagles have had and assume they haven’t had many failures.  That’s not the case.    Every team has misses,  even the successful ones.   

Yeah, everyone will have misses. What separates Roseman from all other GMs and puts him in rarefied air is he doesn't restrict himself from getting high priced free agents to build a strong contending team even with unstable QB position, while being willing to Max out all the cap space he could. Hurts was not a proven quality QB last off-season, but their GM still had every other position fortified with quality starters and depth. He replenishes  RB room for cheap and with quality depth, and spends money on impact positions while drafting trenches 8 out of 10 times in the first round and mostly drafting there well. He fleeces other GMs very well on offloading contracts and getting great free agents at right time from right team. So many moves just don't work out by luck year after year. He's a very good grip on where to spend money and how to keep the roster a championship contender even with unanswered questions at QB position for last decade. 

 

He does so much so well that his misses are negligible in the larger picture. He missed on Jefferson, but he got AJ and Smith, and now they're not going to lose sleep over that miss.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Eh maybe, look at AB and OBJ… 

Hopkins is a million times better team player than AB. OBJ just got drafted by a bad team with a fading QB, and has been great apart from the recent injury and time-off. My point is, Hopkins has not shown any signs of being slowed down yet.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Agholor was hand picked by Chip Kelly, Roseman was not having control over that draft, IIRC.

 

Yeah, everyone will have misses. What separates Roseman from all other GMs and puts him in rarefied air is he doesn't restrict himself from getting high priced free agents to build a strong contending team even with unstable QB position, while being willing to Max out all the cap space he could. Hurts was not a proven quality QB last off-season, but their GM still had every other position fortified with quality starters and depth. He replenishes  RB room for cheap and with quality depth, and spends money on impact positions while drafting trenches 8 out of 10 times in the first round and mostly drafting there well. He fleeces other GMs very well on offloading contracts and getting great free agents at right time from right team. So many moves just don't work out by luck year after year. He's a very good grip on where to spend money and how to keep the roster a championship contender even with unanswered questions at QB position for last decade. 

 

He does so much so well that his misses are negligible in the larger picture. He missed on Jefferson, but he got AJ and Smith, and now they're not going to lose sleep over that miss.

You don’t have to convince me Roseman is good at his job.   I literally said so in the post you felt necessary to respond to. 
 

He’s very good at his job.   But he makes mistakes too as all GMs do.   That’s something that many here don’t understand.   

[VikingsFanInChennai]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You don’t have to convince me Roseman is good at his job.   I literally said so in the post you felt necessary to respond to. 
 

He’s very good at his job.   But he makes mistakes too as all GMs do.   That’s something that many here don’t understand.   

I don't think that's the case.. when people here say Ballard is good at drafting especially, it doesn't mean he has no misses in his draft picks. 

 

I was not trying to convince anyone about anything. My point was Roseman does have a knack of fixing his mistakes, like he missed on QB and WR, but did get top notch players at these positions very soon, while still keeping the rest of the roster a championship material, especially in the trenches.

 

Most of the GMs including Ballard struggle to fix some position groups while few others break down. I think that's where Roseman has differentiated himself from the rest of the crowd. He's got some far sighted vision and execution. 

 

Anyway, I can't recall how we got here discussing this in Hopkins trade, probably from Vikings drafting Jefferson. I was not trying to get any point across to you, I just try to add points to the discussion and sometimes it would elicit response from the comment I choose to reply. 

[Moosejawcolt]

18 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Agholor was hand picked by Chip Kelly, Roseman was not having control over that draft, IIRC.

 

Yeah, everyone will have misses. What separates Roseman from all other GMs and puts him in rarefied air is he doesn't restrict himself from getting high priced free agents to build a strong contending team even with unstable QB position, while being willing to Max out all the cap space he could. Hurts was not a proven quality QB last off-season, but their GM still had every other position fortified with quality starters and depth. He replenishes  RB room for cheap and with quality depth, and spends money on impact positions while drafting trenches 8 out of 10 times in the first round and mostly drafting there well. He fleeces other GMs very well on offloading contracts and getting great free agents at right time from right team. So many moves just don't work out by luck year after year. He's a very good grip on where to spend money and how to keep the roster a championship contender even with unanswered questions at QB position for last decade. 

 

He does so much so well that his misses are negligible in the larger picture. He missed on Jefferson, but he got AJ and Smith, and now they're not going to lose sleep over that miss.

Roseman has done a good job but lets remember that cup cake schedule last year. I expect them to fall and when they do everyone is going to ask "whats wrong with the Eagles"? They are playing a much harder schedule this year and last year it was like Alabama playing Alabama  State all year long lol

[Moosejawcolt]

18 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Hopkins is a million times better team player than AB. OBJ just got drafted by a bad team with a fading QB, and has been great apart from the recent injury and time-off. My point is, Hopkins has not shown any signs of being slowed down yet.

You are so right. 31 years old and still has it as you sayl. No takers for trades and no one breaking down the door to acquire him. Plus, Arizona was willing to take a 22 million dead cap hit this year. You are so right nothing to see here lol. They couldnt wait to get rid of him, much like O'Brien, and I suspect mostly because of all the off the field stuff and he is not worth the head ache anymore. 

[DougDew]

18 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Two things.

 

O'Brien is not a good example to cite for anything other than, maybe, his offensive system. Texans didn't really handle lot of contract, draft or free agency moves well even while drafting a franchise QB in Watson and an elite pass rusher in JJ Watt. Still getting second round pick is high enough with offloading contract for an elite receiver. 

 

Secondly, whatever Hopkins' issues supposedly were, his production has always been solid so teams would go for him until he can bring them elite production.

I think the negative opinion of O'Brien came from his elevation to GM, and then trading away players for compensation that seemed laughable.  Most people thought O'Brien was some out of touch * for making those moves, not considering that he may have been extremely in-touch with certain things in the locker room or other aspects that he may have seen as detrimental.  Also, JJ Watt had what I would call some uppity mouthy episodes during that time.  I think O'Brien traded for Tunsil, the supposed bong-head from that draft video, and paid a good price for him...so its not like "cultural" issues were the driving force behind O'Brien making trades.  Tunsil turned out great for HOU while Hopkins and Watt probably were getting to the point of being overpaid (or wanting to be) when O'Brien was GM.  

[Boss7894]

Discuss…

[NewColtsFan]

He’s been officially cut.   He’s a free agent now.   So, no need to trade anything for him.   
 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

i dont know but I have pushed back on those saying how good he still is. Its crickets out there. One GM said his legs are gone and I have heard he brings a lot of baggage. There is a reason why a 31 year old receiver is still not signed.  If he is worth it, he would have been gobbled up by now, The fact that he remains unsigned tells me that he is not worth it

[Boss7894]

So he’s not good… hmmm

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

i dont know but I have pushed back on those saying how good he still is. It’s crickets out there. One GM said his legs are gone and I have heard he brings a lot of baggage. There is a reason why a 31 year old receiver is still not signed.  If he is worth it, he would have been gobbled up by now, The fact that he remains unsigned tells me that he is not worth it

The reason he is still not signed is because he’s asking for more from the playoff quality teams than they have money to pay.  
 

Hopkins wants a deal like OBJ.    But Beckham got that deal in Mid April when a few good teams had money to offer.   Now the Calendar says June and the only teams that have that kind of money are the bottom 10 teams.   The top 10 teams don’t have that kind of money.   Hopkins has to decide which is more important….  Money or playing in the post-season?   Getting both is going to be very hard.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Boss7894 said:

So he’s not good… hmmm

He’s not as good as he used to be and he wants a lot of money.   June, July and August are bad months to be asking for a lot of money.  

[azcolt]

This thread isn’t very consistent with all chips in.

[NewColtsFan]

47 minutes ago, azcolt said:

This thread isn’t very consistent with all chips in.

Fair point.    So I’ll ask this question….   Do you think all our chips are in this year?  
 

Objectively….   We traded away Gilmore, our best corner, we didn’t bring back McCloud, our best safety by far.   We’ve made zero major moves to address the offense other than the draft.   No big FA moves.   So the Colts are a young team that’s going even younger.
 

So based on what we’ve done and haven’t done I don’t see all our chips being in this year.  
 

That said….  No owner wants to say that publicly — it’s bad for business.   The Colts are trying to sell an exciting future.   The quiet part is that the future is very likely not happening this year.   
 

Just some food for thought.