Polian/Dungy vs Ballard/Reich defense

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Running a scheme that I think fits our team that we can scout for...

 

You and I might have a different interpretation of that, but that quote doesn't give me indication that this is Eberflus defense. This is Ballard's vision of a defense that he knows he, Dodds and company can best scout for and build up from scratch... and Eberflus bought in on. Obviously Eberflus is going to have influence on the defense as he is the one that is going to be coaching it up and gameplanning every week. But that doesn't mean Ballard didn't lay out his vision of a Seattle-like defense, knowing he and Dodds could scout the players needed for it, and Eberflus thought it sounded like the stepping stone to head coaching job in the next 4 or 5 years. 

 

So, what kind of defense will the Colts’ new coach be inheriting? Ballard made several references to the Tampa 2-style defense the Colts and the Chicago Bears – one of his former teams – used with great success in the 2000s. But, further reporting has clarified what the Colts really are going for is a style similar to that of the Dallas Cowboys, who have been running a modified version of the system. Eberflus was Dallas’ linebackers coach, working under defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli, whom Ballard has known for years.

 

Here is the full article-

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2018/02/09/colts-dont-have-coach-but-they-do-have-brand-new-defense/323577002/

 

This story was done after the McDaniels fiasco, but before Reich was hired. Yes there will be twists to the Tampa 2 as teams long ago figured ways to beat the Dungy version (I documented one play in Nickel vs. 11 personnel)

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

29 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

So, what kind of defense will the Colts’ new coach be inheriting? Ballard made several references to the Tampa 2-style defense the Colts and the Chicago Bears – one of his former teams – used with great success in the 2000s. But, further reporting has clarified what the Colts really are going for is a style similar to that of the Dallas Cowboys, who have been running a modified version of the system. Eberflus was Dallas’ linebackers coach, working under defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli, whom Ballard has known for years.

 

Here is the full article-

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2018/02/09/colts-dont-have-coach-but-they-do-have-brand-new-defense/323577002/

 

This story was done after the McDaniels fiasco, but before Reich was hired. Yes there will be twists to the Tampa 2 as teams long ago figured ways to beat the Dungy version (I documented one play in Nickel vs. 11 personnel)

 

 

"Though the 68-year old Marinelli is a Dungy disciple, NFL offenses became adept at beating basic Cover 2 coverages long ago. It certainly still works situationally, but to deploy it full-time is not an option."

 

I read that article also back in February. Again, different perspectives apparently. Very little chance their base secondary coverage is Tampa 2. The front 7 might be similar style but this secondary especially sub packages will be mixing up coverages and using cover two sparingly. It talks about that in that very article. 3 receiver sets carve up cover two defense today. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

44 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

"Though the 68-year old Marinelli is a Dungy disciple, NFL offenses became adept at beating basic Cover 2 coverages long ago. It certainly still works situationally, but to deploy it full-time is not an option."

 

I read that article also back in February. Again, different perspectives apparently. Very little chance their base secondary coverage is Tampa 2. The front 7 might be similar style but this secondary especially sub packages will be mixing up coverages and using cover two sparingly. It talks about that in that very article. 3 receiver sets carve up cover two defense today. 

 

"what the Colts really are going for is a style similar to that of the Dallas Cowboys, who have been running a modified version of the system. Eberflus was Dallas’ linebackers coach, working under defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli, whom Ballard has known for years."

 

This is what the Cowboys have run in a recent season before-

 

Base (4 DB's) -  16%

Nickel (5 DB's) -  58%

Dime (6 DB's) -  26%  (and Ruby)

 

Seahawks run a Cover 3,  with a  4 - 2 - 5 Nickel formation around 60% of snaps.  Earl Thomas middle deep, corners cover hash to sidelines deep.  2 linebackers cover short and flats and Kam Chancellor stops the run and ruins slants.

 

Cowboys have even played Cover 1 Man Free.  And Marinelli has even rolled out the Ruby; a 3  - 2 - 6 scheme. BTW, the Cover 2 Man is still a viable formation as well.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6b10KOIqd0

 

Once scrimmages/games begin, I'll know more about what we will run.

 

[NewColtsFan]

10 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Didn't Ballard hire Eberflus and then vouch strongly for him when his HC bailed? He basically forced Reich to inherit him as a DC... possibly because Eberflus vision was in line with what Ballard's vision on defense was?  He had his first draft as GM in which he brought in practically a new defensive secondary, pass rusher and inside linebacker before Eberflus was even mentioned... I think you are weighing too heavily on Eberflus' influence on how this defense will be run, and too lightly on Ballard's vision and influence on it. Ballard knew what defense he wanted to put together before he took this job and he brought Dodds in long before Eberflus. 

 

 

So,  first things first...

 

It doesn't matter that Ballard brought in Dodds first...   that's only because he was available first.    Ballard couldn't bring in Eberflus in 17 because Pagano was the HC and he had his own DC.    Ballard was not going to interfere there.     This is only an issue of timing.     It doesn't reveal anything one way or the other.

 

As soon as he could bring in Eberflus,  Ballard did just that.

 

5 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes. Please allow me to make the connections here.  Ballard was at the Bears from 2001-2011 as a Scout, and 2012 as Dir. of Pro Player Personnel. Who was head coach in that time? Lovie Smith, who learned his D craft under Tony Dungy.  Riverboat Ron was DC, until he left, then the Babich fail, that's when Rod Marinelli was brought in; who also worked with Lovie Smith under Tony Dungy in Tampa!  Eberflus learned under Rod Marinelli!  Ballard scouted for players for this HC / DC's in this base scheme.  Ballard is not only familiar with the scheme, but the type players necessary to make it work.  He knows Eberflus was the product of Marinelli, a branch (like Lovie Smith) off the Dungy coaching tree.

 

Reich played for the Bills under Levy and Polian.  When Polian started with the Colts in 1998, he called Reich to join them. Reich refused and left football for 8 years, then called Polian mid 2000's... he wanted in.  He was intern, QC coach then became Manning's QB coach, and the Dungy Tampa 2 was the defense during that time. Reich knows Dungy, and the Tampa 2 as well. It all fits. 

 

So Dodds, Hogan, Eberflus, and all of the scouts report to Ballard.  But who designs and runs the D show every Sunday? Who can make Ballard look good... or... not so good in the W or L column?  Who designs D schemes?  Who is responsible for coaching them?  Yes, I think Eberflus has solid input.  And all of this is stuff Jim Irsay is also very familiar with.  And I'll wager he had some say as well.

 

 

Hmmm....

 

“I got to know Matt Eberflus a few years ago and was blown away by Matt,” Ballard said. “Matt was a coveted coach. He’s a very talented defensive coordinator. I feel very lucky to have Matt Eberflus in the building running a scheme that I think fits our team that we can scout for.”

 

 

 

 

Agreed, I want to see if our corners do press/bump and run or jam and drop into zone more consistently.  I can see them running either depending upon the situation...

 

3 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Running a scheme that I think fits our team that we can scout for...

 

You and I might have a different interpretation of that, but that quote doesn't give me indication that this is Eberflus defense. This is Ballard's vision of a defense that he knows he, Dodds and company can best scout for and build up from scratch... and Eberflus bought in on. Obviously Eberflus is going to have influence on the defense as he is the one that is going to be coaching it up and gameplanning every week. But that doesn't mean Ballard didn't lay out his vision of a Seattle-like defense, knowing he and Dodds could scout the players needed for it, and Eberflus thought it sounded like the stepping stone to head coaching job in the next 4 or 5 years. 

 

I have no idea why you would think ANY of this?      Why do you think Ballard had to "sell" his vision of a defense to Eberflus?    You've seen the quote from Ballard about Eberflus.    One meeting and he was sold.     Why wouldn't you think these two men share a vision.   Share principles and values.     Have common ideas about what they want to run.     I'm at a complete loss why you're taking this viewpoint and not that Ballard and Eberflus are closer to being philosophical twins than they are Boss and Employee and that the boss had to explain what he wanted the employee to do.

 

This is baffling to me.....

 

CS13....

 

I should say that you've quickly become one of my favorite posters,  so I'm not at all comfortable  reading your exchanges here and not understanding your point of view at all.    This almost never happens to me when I read your posts,  but it sure has here.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself here...   If you've already done so and I've somehow missed them,  my apologies,  just my eyes playing tricks on me...    Thanks again for your help.

 

P.S. --- I tried to put some of this at the very top but the system is not allowing me to.

 

[ColtStrong2013]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So,  first things first...

 

It doesn't matter that Ballard brought in Dodds first...   that's only because he was available first.    Ballard couldn't bring in Eberflus in 17 because Pagano was the HC and he had his own DC.    Ballard was not going to interfere there.     This is only an issue of timing.     It doesn't reveal anything one way or the other.

 

As soon as he could bring in Eberflus,  Ballard did just that.

 

 

 

I have no idea why you would think ANY of this?      Why do you think Ballard had to "sell" his vision of a defense to Eberflus?    You've seen the quote from Ballard about Eberflus.    One meeting and he was sold.     Why wouldn't you think these two men share a vision.   Share principles and values.     Have common ideas about what they want to run.     I'm at a complete loss why you're taking this viewpoint and not that Ballard and Eberflus are closer to being philosophical twins than they are Boss and Employee and that the boss had to explain what he wanted the employee to do.

 

This is baffling to me.....

 

CS13....

 

I should say that you've quickly become one of my favorite posters,  so I'm not at all comfortable  reading your exchanges here and not understanding your point of view at all.    This almost never happens to me when I read your posts,  but it sure has here.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself here...   If you've already done so and I've somehow missed them,  my apologies,  just my eyes playing tricks on me...    Thanks again for your help.

 

P.S. --- I tried to put some of this at the very top but the system is not allowing me to.

 

Boss and employee's can work together well if the employee buys in on the vision... I own a business and I can tell you for a fact that not one employee tells me how they are going to things if it doesn't align with my vision. If Ballard knew what type of defense he wanted this team to instill based on what he was comfortable scouting, personnel wise, then he is going to lay that out for defensive coordinators to buy into. I doubt very seriously their meeting was Eberflus laying out his defensive plans and Ballard buying it. Ballard contacted him for a reason, and it was because he liked certain aspects of the Cowboys defense and he knows Eberflus is a great coach. I have no doubts in Eberflus only that he won't be here very long if things go well... and I certainly hope that is the case. I think they are probably very similar in philosophies, as Eberflus wouldn't have agreed if not. He was in a good spot in Dallas, this was just too good of an opportunity to pass up. I also don't believe Ballard will interfere in the coaching side of things like Grigson did. But Ballard clearly had his idea of defensive scheme when he came in. To not assume that, is to discredit his organization and planning, which many executives say is unparalleled. I apologize for not explaining that. I do not believe this is Ballard's way or the highway, and know that Eberflus is going to do the coaching/planning. But from a defensive scheme standpoint, I firmly believe Ballard laid his vision out based on what he was comfortable drafting, what he has already drafted (particularly the secondary) and it isn't a Tampa 2 foundation from the secondary standpoint... I could be completely wrong and surprised, but I don't see Hooker and Geathers being a Tampa 2 base defense or variation. I think Hooker is an Earl Thomas like centerfielder and Geathers is a Kam Chancellor type safety, and that is where Ed Dodds comes into play. Time will tell with that assumption... and it is just that at this point. 

[ColtStrong2013]

@NewColtsFan I appreciate your post. We can disagree on things or need clarification (and still disagree) without being blatantly rude about it like some tend to be on here. I'm happy to explain my thought process, and never claim to know anything in absolute terms. I enjoy this forum for quality discussions on the specifics of schemes and aspects of the game the casual fan refuse to discuss. This is one of those posts, that we all can take away other perspectives and learn something from. I constantly learn things about the game on this forum.