Pats TD shouldn't have counted

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Not that it would have mattered, but kind of discouraging to see refs at this stage getting calls wrong

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/160417/report-blandino-says-solders-touchdown-shouldnt-have-counted?ex_cid=sportscenterFB

[DougDew]

Don't blame the refs. As a matter of procedure, they don't take the time needed to sort things out. I'm all for the games lasting longer to make sure the rules are enforced.

[Superman]

Don't blame the refs. As a matter of procedure, they don't take the time needed to sort things out. I'm all for the games lasting longer to make sure the rules are enforced.

 

So why don't we blame the refs again?

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Don't blame the refs. As a matter of procedure, they don't take the time needed to sort things out. I'm all for the games lasting longer to make sure the rules are enforced.

 

I'm not blaming the refs for our loss, which is why I said "not that it would have mattered...".

 

My point is, it is just a bit discouraging to know in the AFC Championship Game that the refs are not enforcing the proper rules.  The week before, the Patriots were within the rules and confused the heck out of the Ravens by running very confusing formations which prompted John Harbaugh to take a 15 yard penalty to stop the game and get clarification as to what they were doing so that his defense could adjust.  Against us, they scored a TD on an illegal play, which should not have counted.  You would think, with the controversy stemming from the week before that the refs at this level (not just an NFL game, but one of the 3 biggest games in the entire NFL season) would have gone into the game knowing the rulebook inside and out, especially in terms of formations, eligible receivers, etc...

 

We got smoked anyway, so it wasn't like this TD was something that was the main reason we lost the game.  My reason for posting was exactly what I said in the first post -- it is a bit discouraging to know the refs dropped the ball on one of their TDs.  I would be furious to find this out had we lost that game by 1 score or if that was the key momentum changer in the game, but regardless of that TD we still deserved to lose that game.  It's hard enough to game plan for a team in the playoffs, let alone when they are running illegal plays that the refs aren't picking up on.

[DougDew]

So why don't we blame the refs again?

Because I strongly suspect that the 32 owners, including NE owner, have established procedures to keep the game moving. BB simply found a hole in the procedures and took advantage of it.

That's not really football competition. Its competing against the procedures established to televise your product for you and your colleagues to make multimillions of dollars.

If BB is going to reamin in the league, I say make every play challengeable and have the refs review every play. In the Ravens game, a first down catch by a concealed eligible receiver was almost as important as any TD play.

[Superman]

Because I strongly suspect that the 32 owners, including NE owner, have established procedures to keep the game moving. BB simply found a hole in the procedures and took advantage of it.

That's not really football competition. Its competing against the procedures established to televise your product for you and your colleagues to make multimillions of dollars.

If BB is going to reamin in the league, I say make every play challengeable and have the refs review every play. In the Ravens game, a first down catch by a concealed eligible receiver was almost as important as any TD play.

 

 

There's a play clock. There should be a play clock. The pace of the game is important, for a hundred reasons. Some of those are money reasons. That's not a bad thing.

 

However, the Pats substitution on that play had nothing to do with the pace of the game, and the refs may not have caught the problem if they had five minutes to review. They were confused. The refs, who are responsible for enforcing the rules during play, evidently weren't aware of a violation that was taking place right under their noses. They should have been, since they are, after all, the refs. 

 

This is their mistake. If a player goes from eligible to ineligible, he has to sit out a play. It's not that difficult. The refs dropped the ball. It's their fault. 

[coltsfanmurf]

If BB is going to reamin in the league, I say make every play challengeable and have the refs review every play. In the Ravens game, a first down catch by a concealed eligible receiver was almost as important as any TD play.

 

I don't know if I agree with challenging every play HOWEVER, I have always thought that IF you challenge and are right, it should not count against you.  You should not be penalized for a wrong call.  Give each coach 2 failed challenges for each game.  If they challenge and win, they still have that challenge.  Also, once the ref goes under the hood, they get 90 seconds.  If they can't decide for sure within that time frame, the call stands.  Reversal on challenge is just supposed to be for "irrefutable" evidence.  If you can't see it in 90 seconds, its not "irrefutable".  Just my dos pesos.

[DougDew]

I'm not blaming the refs for our loss, which is why I said "not that it would have mattered...".

 

My point is, it is just a bit discouraging to know in the AFC Championship Game that the refs are not enforcing the proper rules.  The week before, the Patriots were within the rules and confused the heck out of the Ravens by running very confusing formations which prompted John Harbaugh to take a 15 yard penalty to stop the game and get clarification as to what they were doing so that his defense could adjust.  Against us, they scored a TD on an illegal play, which should not have counted.  You would think, with the controversy stemming from the week before that the refs at this level (not just an NFL game, but one of the 3 biggest games in the entire NFL season) would have gone into the game knowing the rulebook inside and out, especially in terms of formations, eligible receivers, etc...

 

We got smoked anyway, so it wasn't like this TD was something that was the main reason we lost the game.  My reason for posting was exactly what I said in the first post -- it is a bit discouraging to know the refs dropped the ball on one of their TDs.  I would be furious to find this out had we lost that game by 1 score or if that was the key momentum changer in the game, but regardless of that TD we still deserved to lose that game.  It's hard enough to game plan for a team in the playoffs, let alone when they are running illegal plays that the refs aren't picking up on.

I see your point. What I was saying was that if the play before was not one of those conceal-who's eligible plays, then there is a good chance the refs would catch it.

They were simply trying to keep up with the situation.

I would describe the entire situation as BB competing against the refs, not competing against the Colts, IMO.

[DougDew]

I don't know if I agree with challenging every play HOWEVER, I have always thought that IF you challenge and are right, it should not count against you.  You should not be penalized for a wrong call.  Give each coach 2 failed challenges for each game.  If they challenge and win, they still have that challenge.  Also, once the ref goes under the hood, they get 90 seconds.  If they can't decide for sure within that time frame, the call stands.  Reversal on challenge is just supposed to be for "irrefutable" evidence.  If you can't see it in 90 seconds, its not "irrefutable".  Just my dos pesos.

But I think coaches like BB would determine which plays are not reviewable and scheme to take advantage of that..... how the rules are enforced.

I think most coaches gameplan against the other teams...not against the procedures established to enforce the rulebook.

I believe that's what 31 owners expect.

[DougDew]

 

There's a play clock. There should be a play clock. The pace of the game is important, for a hundred reasons. Some of those are money reasons. That's not a bad thing.

 

However, the Pats substitution on that play had nothing to do with the pace of the game, and the refs may not have caught the problem if they had five minutes to review. They were confused. The refs, who are responsible for enforcing the rules during play, evidently weren't aware of a violation that was taking place right under their noses. They should have been, since they are, after all, the refs. 

 

This is their mistake. If a player goes from eligible to ineligible, he has to sit out a play. It's not that difficult. The refs dropped the ball. It's their fault.

Fair enough, I'm getting my threads confused.

I believe the pace of the game is important, but, a coach should be punished for gameplanning against how the rules are enforced. Gameplanning against how the owners choose to enforce the pace of the game is like sticking the finger in your boss's face, IMO.

I just find it interesting that the refs blew an ineligible player call shortly after there was a similar play, after a game that was tainted by similar noncalls throughout a game winning drive. I just choose not top see this field goal as an isolated play.

I'm becoming repetitive. Carry on.....

[TKnight24]

So don't count it, still the score is 38-7...... Still got spanked

Cheated twice, but really wasn't necessary to win against the Colts

So, another irrelevant goof by the NFL

[AndreRison]

This idea that the cheating the Patriots did had no bearing on the outcome of the game is stupid. Why does everybody keep saying this.

Let's take the assumption that the Patriots did deflate the balls, illegally. Now let's say that cheating helped them stay on the field in their two TD drives in the first half. If both of those drives were punts and the Colts scored both times, or just once, the Patriots could have been down 14 to 21 points at half time. Now the Patriots have to play catch up. They don't get the luxury of running Blount every time. The Patriots would not have come out in the 3rd doing what ever they wanted, because their playbook shrinks. This would allow Pagano to call a more accurate defensive game. Maybe they make a run anyway, but not necessarily.

So to wrap this up...Everybody knows the nfl is a game of inches. A stop here, a turnover there, and the game is totally different. So this stupid idea that cheating couldn't account for the second half slaughter, makes no sense.

[TKnight24]

This idea that the cheating the Patriots did had no bearing on the outcome of the game is stupid. Why does everybody keep saying this.

Let's take the assumption that the Patriots did deflate the balls, illegally. Now let's say that cheating helped them stay on the field in their two TD drives in the first half. If both of those drives were punts and the Colts scored both times, or just once, the Patriots could have been down 14 to 21 points at half time. Now the Patriots have to play catch up. They don't get the luxury of running Blount every time. The Patriots would not have come out in the 3rd doing what ever they wanted, because their playbook shrinks. This would allow Pagano to call a more accurate defensive game. Maybe they make a run anyway, but not necessarily.

So to wrap this up...Everybody knows the nfl is a game of inches. A stop here, a turnover there, and the game is totally different. So this stupid idea that cheating couldn't account for the second half slaughter, makes no sense.

Makes perfect sense. They've spanked the THREE times prior to the AFCCG. People act like this is something new, they're the better team by a mile..... Maybe 4 miles

[southwest1]

This idea that the cheating the Patriots did had no bearing on the outcome of the game is stupid. Why does everybody keep saying this.

Let's take the assumption that the Patriots did deflate the balls, illegally. Now let's say that cheating helped them stay on the field in their two TD drives in the first half. If both of those drives were punts and the Colts scored both times, or just once, the Patriots could have been down 14 to 21 points at half time. Now the Patriots have to play catch up. They don't get the luxury of running Blount every time. The Patriots would not have come out in the 3rd doing what ever they wanted, because their playbook shrinks. This would allow Pagano to call a more accurate defensive game. Maybe they make a run anyway, but not necessarily.

So to wrap this up...Everybody knows the nfl is a game of inches. A stop here, a turnover there, and the game is totally different. So this stupid idea that cheating couldn't account for the second half slaughter, makes no sense.

You don't seriously believe that nonsense do ya? No disrespect intended AndreRison, but Patriots RB LeGarrette Blount demolished INDY like a mack truck running over a cardboard box. NE really didn't even need to throw the ball period at the Championship Game. You seriously think we could have scored twice? Look, I appreciate your INDY loyalty, but when you get your caboose kicked by another team just lick your wounds & take your lumps. Hades, NE could have beat us holding a cannon ball as opposed to a football man. 

[AndreRison]

Makes perfect sense. They've spanked the THREE times prior to the AFCCG. People act like this is something new, they're the better team by a mile..... Maybe 4 miles

they've been doing this since 07. Look at their fumble numbers.

[AndreRison]

You don't seriously believe that nonsense do ya? No disrespect intended AndreRison, but Patriots RB LeGarrette Blount demolished INDY like a mack truck running over a cardboard box. NE really didn't even need to throw the ball period at the Championship Game. You seriously think we could have scored twice? Look, I appreciate your INDY loyalty, but when you get your caboose kicked by another team just lick your wounds & take your lumps. Hades, NE could have beat us holding a cannon ball as opposed to a football man.

I understand people want to think these games have been pretty fair, but when your running back doesn't have to worry about being stripped he just needs to keep on churning. Even Jonas Gray had 200 yards against us. JONAS GRAY!!

Imagine the running backs in the league could run without the ball and their yards count. That's what NE was doing.

[RandomFan]

So irrelevant, who cares. I heard about this story and didn't even care enough to click the link.

[dgambill]

Didn't decide the game. Missed calls happen all the time..both ways. What I do think it shows is that the eligible/ineligible players will probably be a point of emphasis in the offseason and maybe even a rule change or two. I still think the easiest way for a player that is reporting eligible (or ineligible) is for them to tell the refs. Then the refs announce it. Then the refs stand over the ball and the player raises his hand once in formation. After that the player can motion/move or whatever...but this gives the other team a chance to see who it is and the other officials a chance to see who they are so they don't do something illegal....also the refs can identify if the player needs to report again or leave the game etc. 99% of the time this happens its a tackle uncovered or a blocker in the backfield. Well Bill has shown there are many more ways to use this and nothing wrong with that...but that doesn't meansome simple adjustments shouldn't be made.