Why the Saints suck

[dw49]

Brady has not had good protection.

Let's try not even try to compare the Colt line to the Pat's line. We have one good starter LT Castonzo ,then  Cherlius who's been horrible at RT(hurt all year) a guy thats been released about 6 times and a free agent rookie at C , 2 -3 horrible , horrendous performers at RG and a decent rookie at LG. Plus we lost Bradshaw who was our best at blitz pick up. Then add in that we have no run game so not much respect for play action. That all makes for what is more often than not utter chaos

[BloodyChamp]

I was ready to rip into Superman that they were good with Jim Mora, who I'm a huge fan of, but he mentioned him lol!

Best coach to never win a Superbowl and the best coach Peyton Manning ever had. I wish he would have swallowed his pride that last year and just let Peyton carry him to a ring eventually if nothing else to get 1.

[Synthetic]

I was ready to rip into Superman that they were good with Jim Mora, who I'm a huge fan of, but he mentioned him lol!

Best coach to never win a Superbowl and the best coach Peyton Manning ever had. I wish he would have swallowed his pride that last year and just let Peyton carry him to a ring eventually if nothing else to get 1.

 

 

Mora deserves respect. The Dome Patrol defensive unit was amazing.

 

Sadly, he never had much of an offense to work with. But that linebackers core was amazing in their prime, like 1992. Sam Mills has a statue in Carolina, I hope one day he is in the Hall of Fame. If I had to pick an all time favorite Saint, it comes between Sam Mills and Deuce McAllister.

[Coltsince4]

I Love the name of this thread!! And I BELIEVE!!! And by the way Bogie, When did you first start liking the saints?

[southwest1]

I Love the name of this thread!! And I BELIEVE!!! And by the way Bogie, When did you first start liking the saints?

The Saints will bounce back. I don't watch too many NFC teams except GB, the NY Giants, the Saints, & now the Vikings under HC Mike Zimmer. I don't watch hopeless teams.

 

New Orleans & the Big Easy will rise again...

 

Okay, if I'm being honest, I do peak in on RW in Seattle from time to time given his college roots & mine. 

[southwest1]

Mora deserves respect. 

Jim is so awesome. I just love the guy as a head coach because he was always gonna give you an honest answer no matter what. His body language spoke volumes & his voice left no room for doubt or ambiguity. 

 

Mora laid it all out on the table but be careful what you asked him as a reporter because he had no filter. His press conferences, especially the angry ones, were great. He was Dennis Green before Dennis Green blew up in front of a microphone on national TV. I'm not slamming Jim as a clown BTW; I respected his brutal honesty. The man was incapable of sugarcoating anything & you always knew where he stood on a question because he dodged nothing. 

 

Just the INDY rant alone is legendary man...Playoffs?! Playoffs?! Are you freaking kidding me? I just wanna win a darn game." 

[Synthetic]

Jim is so awesome. I just love the guy as a head coach because he was always gonna give you an honest answer no matter what. His body language spoke volumes & his voice left no room for doubt or ambiguity. 

 

Mora laid it all out on the table but be careful what you asked him as a reporter because he had no filter. His press conferences, especially the angry ones, were great. He was Dennis Green before Dennis Green blew up in front of a microphone on national TV. I'm not slamming Jim as a clown BTW; I respected his brutal honesty. The man was incapable of sugarcoating anything & you always knew where he stood on a question because he dodged nothing. 

 

Just the INDY rant alone is legendary man...Playoffs?! Playoffs?! Are you freaking kidding me? I just wanna win a darn game." 

 

 

The rants I do not miss, they were embarrassing back in the day. People still laugh at that today.

 

Some of his rants were totally uncalled for. When Morten Andersen missed the field goal against the 49ers in 1987, I may have been a little kid at the time but I remember talking about that for years.Andersen rarely missed field goals too, which is only reason I say that. I never forget that Mora let Andersen go, and then he kicked game winning field goals against us in OT for years with the Falcons, including that epic one in Mora's last year where we lost to Jeff friggin' George.

 

His rant about fans cheering an injury in the Superdome on Wade Wilson speaks volumes. It's ammo for anyone in sociology (or any other field of analyzing culture) looking for a good shot at talking about the love of violence, especially in a sport centered around it. That specific rant don't get a lot of mention, but it's probably his best, and not really funny at all cause the subject matter is serious.

 

The worst thing Mora did was walk out on us half way in a season, and even worse than that was letting key players go. Rickey Jackson, I don't blame him, cause Jackson played for us for years, and he managed to get a ring in San Francisco. But he let Pat Swilling go to Detroit, Sam Mills has a statue in Carolina, worst of all was letting Craig Heyward and Bobby Hebert go to the Falcons of all teams. And Hebert came into the superdome and beat the crap out of us and did the dirty bird dance. It was humiliating to experience. 

 

Too bad we got Jim Everett at the end of his career, I always loved that guy. Class act too. He was the only Saints player I recall from back in the day that ever sent my friend an autographed card. If anyone remembers writing before internet, you could mail all the NFL teams and they always sent you something back. The Chiefs always sent back the most stuff I remember; posters, cards, stickers, schedules, print photos. The Packers also sent really cool stuff, along with autographs. I had an autographed poster of the 1996 team when I wrote to them professing as a huge Favre fan, shame it got lost when my folks moved. All the Saints ever sent back was a schedule, yet Everett was a class act. As far as fan mail goes, I'll still say the Chiefs sent the coolest stuff just for writing to them, I got the autographed the Pack poster from my fan letter that had my picture of myself in my Favre jersey.

 

Sorry for getting off topic there, but have to appreciate what little memories of writing letters we have today, internet is so much quicker.

[southwest1]

The rants I do not miss, they were embarrassing back in the day. People still laugh at that today.

 

Some of his rants were totally uncalled for. When Morten Andersen missed the field goal against the 49ers in 1987, I may have been a little kid at the time but I remember talking about that for years.Andersen rarely missed field goals too, which is only reason I say that. I never forget that Mora let Andersen go, and then he kicked game winning field goals against us in OT for years with the Falcons, including that epic one in Mora's last year where we lost to Jeff friggin' George.

 

His rant about fans cheering an injury in the Superdome on Wade Wilson speaks volumes. It's ammo for anyone in sociology (or any other field of analyzing culture) looking for a good shot at talking about the love of violence, especially in a sport centered around it. That specific rant don't get a lot of mention, but it's probably his best, and not really funny at all cause the subject matter is serious.

 

The worst thing Mora did was walk out on us half way in a season, and even worse than that was letting key players go. Rickey Jackson, I don't blame him, cause Jackson played for us for years, and he managed to get a ring in San Francisco. But he let Pat Swilling go to Detroit, Sam Mills has a statue in Carolina, worst of all was letting Craig Heyward and Bobby Hebert go to the Falcons of all teams. And Hebert came into the superdome and beat the crap out of us and did the dirty bird dance. It was humiliating to experience. 

 

Too bad we got Jim Everett at the end of his career, I always loved that guy. Class act too. He was the only Saints player I recall from back in the day that ever sent my friend an autographed card. If anyone remembers writing before internet, you could mail all the NFL teams and they always sent you something back. The Chiefs always sent back the most stuff I remember; posters, cards, stickers, schedules, print photos. The Packers also sent really cool stuff, along with autographs. I had an autographed poster of the 1996 team when I wrote to them professing as a huge Favre fan, shame it got lost when my folks moved. All the Saints ever sent back was a schedule, yet Everett was a class act. As far as fan mail goes, I'll still say the Chiefs sent the coolest stuff just for writing to them, I got the autographed the Pack poster from my fan letter that had my picture of myself in my Favre jersey.

 

Sorry for getting off topic there, but have to appreciate what little memories of writing letters we have today, internet is so much quicker.

I remember the world before e-mail, the internet, & computers. Hades, I even took typing on a typewriter in high school not a word processor, but the machine that went ding at the end of a sentence & footnotes were the work of the devil before computers made corrections & moving paragraphs around so much easier. Cool. I had no idea that teams sent such intriguing photos back in the day with just a simple handwritten or typed letter. Sorry that I get so angry with Brett Favre sometimes. He's tough as nails & he's a 1st ballot lock for the NFL HOF. It's just that in WI his retirement/non retirement got old, really, really quick. But I will watch his induction ceremony & pay him his proper dues. He was like Rocky Balboa vs your Saints in 2009. He just refused to quit. 

 

No problem getting off topic Bogie. I'm the 1 who went way off the reservation bringing up the new Michael Mann picture. You've got nothing to apologize for trust me. 

 

Your point is well taken though regarding Jim Mora. It's harder to live with a coach's antics when your team is losing & his rants make player contributions sometimes feel insignificant & small. No one wants to be a national joke over a HC's emotional outbursts. I can't speak with any real authority on his tenure with the Saints only the Colts because Mora knew we were a work in progress with Peyton Manning & he wasn't gonna let the local INDY press get ahead of where our squad really was right then & there. 

 

Proximity & your level of direct distance from seasonal woes does make a huge difference. Good point. 

 

I should check out his best rants for historical purposes alone. Ouch, Losing to Jeff George really hurts. Sorry man. I wonder how QB Archie Manning views Jim Mora today? Just curious. 

[Jules]

Stats do not tell the entire story. It's very easy to be misguided by them.

 

Defense is bad, but my entire point of this thread was to aim my targets at the offense cause offense has problems too.

 

For a team that ranks #1 in yardage stats, it's no excuse as to why they can't score more than 14 points at home against division rivals.

 

The defense does accumulate turnovers from time to time too. They at least try. The offense does not. It's frustrating when they can shoot up stats all day but don't know how to score points. Stats only tell one side of the story.

 

The clock stopped for the Saints in 2011. They still run an identical offense to that year, and defense still, always gets all the blame. They will scapegoat Rob Ryan and probably boot him after this season is over with, but Brees turnovers, Payton's poor play calling, that will never come under the microscope for questioning.

 

 

Jules is right too, 2009 was a long time ago. We've all changed quite a lot since then, and the older I get, the more I realize we were incredibly lucky that year too. Take away one fumble or just that one interception from Favre, and Vikings go to the Super Bowl. Statistically, they beat the crap out of us in that game. Had that game been in Minnesota, no question about it, they would have blown us out.

 

 

Naturally.

 

Anyway I love this thread. It's like a Saints Q&A. Someone from some Saints magazine or blog is here to write out responses to us. We can't really do this with Pats fans over the years. It will turn into a "BUT, Peyton never had the coaching!!!!!!!!!!! He is the coach!!!!!!!!." "3 ringz.....makes talent out of nothing. And has better hair." 

 

I do like this thread as a good read too.

 

 

lol you probably went 14-2 or 15-1 with Saints game predictions this year anyway. I am still in denial, I still think they can win the division by default on Sunday as the Panthers/Falcons tie? Just kidding.

 

And to be fair, there is more then likely no Andrew Luck on the horizon waiting for you anytime soon too. Sigh, there is only one well cultured, intellectual, athletically inclined nerd and he belongs to us.

 

No way the Saints dump Brees right now. No way. He is still a good QB. A tad arrogant and underwhelming in terms of passion this year to me? Absolutely. But, I would bet Texans fans would give him a hard look and many many teams if you sent him packing. It won't happen, at least right now.

 

Not sure what to think about Payton either. You all don't run the ball. You know this. It is arrogance at times to me there too. Hell if the Colts could run the ball consistently I would be ecstatic. 

 

And the consistent TE fetish thing only seems to work with NE a lot. 

[southwest1]

I guess I just like authority figures from coaches, to teachers, to people in positions of powers who have that 1 moment of clarity where they let it fly with both barrels. 

 

On the 1 side mothers typically say "There is a time & a place for everything" vs fathers who say "Enough of this crap. I've bit my tongue long enough." 

 

In the world of coaching & even in politics when the key guy goes off script it's fascinating to watch because secretly a lot of silent supporters admire them for having the courage to say what needs to be said everyone else is thinking. I just admire people who take their lumps & speak their mind like Jim Mora did as a football coach. 

 

When Mora went off, embarrassing or not, no fan in New Orleans or INDY ever called him fake or a phony. No J.D. Salinger "Catcher In The Rye" here right Jimmy? Nope. 

[southwest1]

Naturally.

 

Anyway I love this thread. It's like a Saints Q&A. Someone from some Saints magazine or blog is here to write out responses to us. We can't really do this with Pats fans over the years. It will turn into a "BUT, Peyton never had the coaching!!!!!!!!!!! He is the coach!!!!!!!!." "3 ringz.....makes talent out of nothing. And has better hair." 

 

I do like this thread as a good read too.

 

 

lol you probably went 14-2 or 15-1 with Saints game predictions this year anyway. I am still in denial, I still think they can win the division by default on Sunday as the Panthers/Falcons tie? Just kidding.

 

And to be fair, there is more then likely no Andrew Luck on the horizon waiting for you anytime soon too. Sigh, there is only one well cultured, intellectual, athletically inclined nerd and he belongs to us.

 

No way the Saints dump Brees right now. No way. He is still a good QB. A tad arrogant and underwhelming in terms of passion this year to me? Absolutely. But, I would bet Texans fans would give him a hard look and many many teams if you sent him packing. It won't happen, at least right now.

 

Not sure what to think about Payton either. You all don't run the ball. You know this. It is arrogance at times to me there too. Hell if the Colts could run the ball consistently I would be ecstatic. 

 

And the consistent TE fetish thing only seems to work with NE a lot. 

A running game in INDY is like a clear picture of the yeti Big Foot. I think I saw it years ago under Edgerrin James & early in Joseph Addai's career, but I can't really recall anymore. LOL! 

 

Other than Gronk in NE & maybe Tony Gonzalez & Shannon Sharpe; no other TE revolutionized that position in my lifetime. So yes, I concur with that conclusion Jules. 

 

Yep, Brees isn't departing jazz central or the French Quarter anytime soon since the Saints organization went nowhere without him in this league.

 

You dance with the girl or guy who took you to the prom. Translation: Never forget what things were like before your franchise QB arrived. I couldn't agree more. 

[amfootball]

Technically no. He was let go because his defensive tendencies didn't fair well with owner Jerry Jones who wanted to bring in Monte Kiffin who later got dismissed. Jerry even said it had nothing to do with Rob's skills as a DC just a difference in NFL philosophies that's all. 

 

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/10367651/monte-kiffin-loses-dallas-cowboys-defensive-coordinator-title-rod-marinelli

 

Besides, there's been so many coordinator changes in Dallas that Rob Ryan can hardly be blamed for any coordinator woes in Cowboys country. Until the HC Jason Garret decided to run the ball consistently, this organization was a walking joke of incompetence. Rob Ryan is not the only coaching casualty in Dallas AMF & Bill Belichick hired Rob too if I'm not mistaken as well from 2000-2003. He's not an a foolish DC who has no idea what he's doing okay. 

 

Could Ryan be let go? Sure, but if you look at his whole tenure at New Orleans, he deserves at least 1 more year minimum with a healthy group of LBs & DBs at his disposal. 

 

I will concede though that as much as I respect Rob Ryan, if I had an opportunity to slide Rex his brother in there as DC, I'd do it immediately with no hesitation whatsoever. I won't lie. 

 

Safety Jairus Byrd going down didn't help either. My point here is this: Rob Ryan has extenuating circumstances that play a crucial role in his evaluation as DC for 2014 AMF. 1 that cannot be ignored.

He did a good job for New Orleans last year. But recently he said the following when asked why the Saints defense struggled so much this year:

 

"Obviously we drank the Kool-Aid a little bit too much, I think. And if they don't think so, I think that's wrong. I think that's an honest opinion," Ryan said. "I think we forgot how we had success [last year]. You know, the 'Nola' defense, where nobody likes our butt. That's how we played better, when our backs were against the wall, when we had a lot to prove.

"I think we didn't get soft in a year's time, but certainly we could have played better and started faster. And it cost us early in some games, and then we're treading uphill the rest of the year."  http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12081975/new-orleans-saints-rob-ryan-defense-forgot-how-success

 

That sounds like to me that he was unable to coach his players expectations week to week and as a result they were too arrogant and thought they could just ride last year's success. That admission would make me questions Ryan's approach and ability to get the best from his players.

[amfootball]

Let's try not even try to compare the Colt line to the Pat's line. We have one good starter LT Castonzo ,then  Cherlius who's been horrible at RT(hurt all year) a guy thats been released about 6 times and a free agent rookie at C , 2 -3 horrible , horrendous performers at RG and a decent rookie at LG. Plus we lost Bradshaw who was our best at blitz pick up. Then add in that we have no run game so not much respect for play action. That all makes for what is more often than not utter chaos

Are you serious? First, to start the season, the Pats lost their long time offensive line coach, Dante Scarnecchia as he retired. He was an offensive line mastermind and had been with the team for over 30 years. He was easily the Pats best position coach on the team. Second, they traded their all pro guard Logan Mankins on August 26 just 12 days before the start of the season.

 

For the first four weeks of the season the offensive line was a merry go round of players being inserted and pulled and moved around. Their line is made up of a rookie at center, Bryan Stork, another rookie in Cameron Fleming, three undrafted FAs in Ryan Wendell, Josh Kline and Jordan Devey. The only vets are Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer and Dan Connolly with Connolly being the only one that has been consistently good all season and of course he did not play vs the Jets due to injury and the line went back to looking like a turnstile. This has easily been the worst offensive line of Brady’s career. They were ranked dead last in the NFL after the first four weeks of the season. And as of mid-Oct they were ranked 27th while the Colts were ranked 9th. I can’t find the Dec. rankings for some reason. Maybe you can. But suffice to say, this is NOT the season to try to say Brady has benefited from solid O line play. Just the opposite actually which is why he said earlier in the season he had worked on his footwork so much. His ability to slip and slide in the pocket this year and actually scramble for a few first downs something we have not seen him do in years has saved this line easily 2-3 negative plays a game.

[dw49]

Are you serious? First, to start the season, the Pats lost their long time offensive line coach, Dante Scarnecchia as he retired. He was an offensive line mastermind and had been with the team for over 30 years. He was easily the Pats best position coach on the team. Second, they traded their all pro guard Logan Mankins on August 26 just 12 days before the start of the season.

 

For the first four weeks of the season the offensive line was a merry go round of players being inserted and pulled and moved around. Their line is made up of a rookie at center, Bryan Stork, another rookie in Cameron Fleming, three undrafted FAs in Ryan Wendell, Josh Kline and Jordan Devey. The only vets are Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer and Dan Connolly with Connolly being the only one that has been consistently good all season and of course he did not play vs the Jets due to injury and the line went back to looking like a turnstile. This has easily been the worst offensive line of Brady’s career. They were ranked dead last in the NFL after the first four weeks of the season. And as of mid-Oct they were ranked 27th while the Colts were ranked 9th. I can’t find the Dec. rankings for some reason. Maybe you can. But suffice to say, this is NOT the season to try to say Brady has benefited from solid O line play. Just the opposite actually which is why he said earlier in the season he had worked on his footwork so much. His ability to slip and slide in the pocket this year and actually scramble for a few first downs something we have not seen him do in years has saved this line easily 2-3 negative plays a game.

 

 

Didn't even read the above . I do see that 9th sticking out. That's ludicrous and I'd love to know where you are digging that up. Probably something like taking the drop backs and dividing the sacks into it. They've had 2 games where they've averaged less than .3 yards per carry.  Anyway , here's the only one I can find that is somewhat up to date. They seem to rate the Pats a little higher than 27th. More like #1 to me.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

[amfootball]

Didn't even read the above . I do see that 9th sticking out. That's ludicrous and I'd love to know where you are digging that up. Probably something like taking the drop backs and dividing the sacks into it. They've had 2 games where they've averaged less than .3 yards per carry.  Anyway , here's the only one I can find that is somewhat up to date. They seem to rate the Pats a little higher than 27th. More like #1 to me.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Of course you didn't read the above because it refuted your non-sense.

 

The link you posted seems to rank pass protection based on sacks given up. That may be the worst indicator. Check out pressures, hurries, knock downs, etc. No way the Pats are anywhere close to the top of the league in pass protection.

[Synthetic]

Naturally.

 

Anyway I love this thread. It's like a Saints Q&A. Someone from some Saints magazine or blog is here to write out responses to us. We can't really do this with Pats fans over the years. It will turn into a "BUT, Peyton never had the coaching!!!!!!!!!!! He is the coach!!!!!!!!." "3 ringz.....makes talent out of nothing. And has better hair." 

 

I do like this thread as a good read too.

 

 

lol you probably went 14-2 or 15-1 with Saints game predictions this year anyway. I am still in denial, I still think they can win the division by default on Sunday as the Panthers/Falcons tie? Just kidding.

 

And to be fair, there is more then likely no Andrew Luck on the horizon waiting for you anytime soon too. Sigh, there is only one well cultured, intellectual, athletically inclined nerd and he belongs to us.

 

No way the Saints dump Brees right now. No way. He is still a good QB. A tad arrogant and underwhelming in terms of passion this year to me? Absolutely. But, I would bet Texans fans would give him a hard look and many many teams if you sent him packing. It won't happen, at least right now.

 

Not sure what to think about Payton either. You all don't run the ball. You know this. It is arrogance at times to me there too. Hell if the Colts could run the ball consistently I would be ecstatic. 

 

And the consistent TE fetish thing only seems to work with NE a lot. 

 

 

Well, TE fetish works for NE since they can masterfully stomp all over their cupcake division and those easy schedules they get. Sorry Pats fans but you know I'm right, your team benefits from a weak schedule every year since the AFC East is so bad, and well overrated this year thanks to Miami and Buffalo. Your team is not underrated when everyone always picks them as a SB favorite.

 

 

The Falcons used (and abused) Tony Gonzalez for years. The Saints sorta became the Falcons when they made Graham into Gonzalez. Other than that, the Saints and Falcons both have always ran the same offense, and sometimes their play calling can seem identical. Sean Payton and Mike Smith have a lot in common. They both even go for it on 4th down when they shouldn't.

 

I was right at least half the time when I spoke to you about the Saints. Predicting them to struggle against Atlanta, Cleveland, Minnesota, Tampa, and Dallas. The ones I failed on that I remember glaringly are Pittsburgh and Carolina. I did not expect them to win in Pittsburgh, nor did I expect them to lay down and get beat down to a bloody pulp from the Panthers.

 

 

I would make a decent Saints writer perhaps, though I'd be widely hated amongst Saints fans, like I already am since I don't buy into the Goodelluminatti playing Dungeons & Dragons with my team. I do get along pretty well with every fan base except for my own. Falcons and Panthers fans are great for these type of discussions.

 

 

Brees problems could be fixed with better offensive line play and far better play calling. The solution was in their faces early in the season, and they refused to take advantage of a strong running game, opting to play Marino Ball all day.

 

I do not want Rob Ryan gone. He gets scapegoated but I don't think he is the problem. Is the defense bad? Yeah, but they do try from time to time, and people that are high up on our safeties must not watch them much. Before Byrd got injured, his biggest play was that one fumble against Atlanta in week 1. He got burned BAD by Miles Austin against Cleveland. Romo had a field day picking on him and Patrick Robinson.

Kennan Lewis is arguably our best corner in the secondary and he has been playing with an injury since S.F., and still, he's not very much. Before his injury, he was getting burned too.

 

But they do at least try from time to time. I don't like to be overly hard on Patrick Robinson even though he gets burned worse than anybody, cause he's a little guy, and from time to time, he makes interceptions happen.

 

People forget that last year, this secondary had Malcolm Jenkins and Roman Harper. Harper, was our worst player on defense for years. Jenkins, was arguably just as bad, though he had some lucky interceptions in Philly this year that turned some heads.

 

While the Saints defense was good last year, they struggled too. They stopped getting turnovers after the 49ers game (losing Jabari Greer hurt them) and they had some games where they absolutely could not stop anything. The Seahawks exposed all their weaknesses,and the Rams with a second string QB, had a field day on them.

[amfootball]

Well, TE fetish works for NE since they can masterfully stomp all over their cupcake division and those easy schedules they get. Sorry Pats fans but you know I'm right, your team benefits from a weak schedule every year since the AFC East is so bad, and well overrated this year thanks to Miami and Buffalo. Your team is not underrated when everyone always picks them as a SB favorite.

 

 

 

For the love of ... the Pats had one of the toughest schedules in the NFL this season which includes playing 10 teams with winning records and blow out victories against every single division leader they played other than GB. In terms of the East, both the Bills and Fins could finish at 9-7 which would make the East the second best division in the conference second only to the North.

[MJD42]

Well, TE fetish works for NE since they can masterfully stomp all over their cupcake division and those easy schedules they get. Sorry Pats fans but you know I'm right, your team benefits from a weak schedule every year since the AFC East is so bad, and well overrated this year thanks to Miami and Buffalo. Your team is not underrated when everyone always picks them as a SB favorite.

 

What TE fetish? Gronk, Lafells and Edelman could all finish with 1,000 yards receiving. Two of those players are WRs.

NE has had one of the toughest schedules this season of any team and the East has three teams with winning records.

 

Not sure what your deal is but you are better off sticking to commenting on your lousy Saints ...

[Synthetic]

What TE fetish? Gronk, Lafells and Edelman could all finish with 1,000 yards receiving. Two of those players are WRs.

NE has had one of the toughest schedules this season of any team and the East has three teams with winning records.

 

Not sure what your deal is but you are better off sticking to commenting on your lousy Saints ...

 

 

Tough schedule? Right, playing the Jets, Dolphins and Bills twice a year is tough when none of those teams will win 10 games. That is what you call a winning record, not teams that will be lucky to go 9-7. This is not the AFC North, where 3 teams may actually reach the playoffs unlike the AFC East where no one has any offense.

 

Toughest games they played were Denver, Green Bay, and arguably San Diego...yeah you guys have it so rough playing cupcakes every year. The last time they had a "tough" schedule was 2009, and they barely went 10-6. Let's not forget when this Pats team made it to the SB in 2011 and went 1-3 against teams above .500, before losing to a 9-7 Giants team in the big one.

[dw49]

Of course you didn't read the above because it refuted your non-sense.

 

The link you posted seems to rank pass protection based on sacks given up. That may be the worst indicator. Check out pressures, hurries, knock downs, etc. No way the Pats are anywhere close to the top of the league in pass protection

 

 

Your the best. What I said was this was the only one I can find that was recent. This is through week 16. You're probably pulling up stuff that was calculated in November. Anyway .. here's how the pass blocking was calculated . Much more than sack rate as you say. If you had just looked at the QB ratings which are very easily pulled up , you would have seen that what "seemed" to you was not the case at all. God... I always find theses things so interesting with you. I really can't ever remember you posting anything that was even close to backing up your ......

 

Anyway , I have no idea of how accurate this really was in rating offensive lines. You were the one that challenged me to look and I would find the Colts at 9 and the Pats at 27. I googled and saw 4-5 that were dated from July to November 1st. This one was late December which I thought would make sense to use as the others don't reflect more than probably 5-6 games. I can't help it if it showed the Pats with the #1 offensive line when it comes to rating run blocking with pass protection. It was YOU... YOU ... YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that brought up ratings. Not me. I so I'm stupid because I pulled up one of these things that said prove your point ?

 

Now just go find me something from middle December that ranks the Colts "AROUND" 9th and the Pats "AROUND " 27th.God sakes alive. You quote the ridiculous O line ratings and then call me stupid because the one I post doesn't suit you. MY GOD IN HEAVEN !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Anyway ... here's what that site said they used to rate pass protection. Appears to be far more than what you pooped out.

 

 

 

"Stats in blue represent pass blocking. Teams are ranked according to "ADJUSTED" Sack Rate, which gives sacks(plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down distance and opponent . Pass blocking stats are explained further here. Our pass blocking stats may differ slightly from official NFL totals depending on the leagues retroactive statistical adjustments.

[southwest1]

He did a good job for New Orleans last year. But recently he said the following when asked why the Saints defense struggled so much this year:

 

"Obviously we drank the Kool-Aid a little bit too much, I think. And if they don't think so, I think that's wrong. I think that's an honest opinion," Ryan said. "I think we forgot how we had success [last year]. You know, the 'Nola' defense, where nobody likes our butt. That's how we played better, when our backs were against the wall, when we had a lot to prove.

"I think we didn't get soft in a year's time, but certainly we could have played better and started faster. And it cost us early in some games, and then we're treading uphill the rest of the year."  http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12081975/new-orleans-saints-rob-ryan-defense-forgot-how-success

 

That sounds like to me that he was unable to coach his players expectations week to week and as a result they were too arrogant and thought they could just ride last year's success. That admission would make me questions Ryan's approach and ability to get the best from his players.

This is why I like Rob Ryan: ""If I get a chance, that'd be awesome. But, hey, the numbers are what they are. They don't look good," Ryan said. "But hell, it is what it is. This is a win business. And, hey, this is a 'tough-people' business, too. So I'll be great with whatever happens."

 

Ryan insisted, however, "If I'm back, I'm gonna start [the improvement] with me."

 

"Whatever I can do better, whatever we can do better ... if I have that opportunity," Ryan said. "If I don't, then I'm still gonna look in the mirror and make sure I do things right. But I've been coaching a long time. The best way for me is to be myself, and usually that works." 

 

You know exactly what your getting with Rob--Accountability, no nonsense, & a guy who always lands on his feet & is a survivor. Sean Payton is not immune from criticism & Drew Brees definitely had an off year. There's plenty of internal, self reflection to go around AMF. Also, you can be the best teacher of the game around, but if your players don't listen or execute your instructions to the letter it means absolutely nothing. 

 

I'm not absolving Rob by any means, but I'm not blindly burning him at the stake for all New Orleans defensive & secondary breakdowns either. A DC is supposed to stop another team from scoring & an HC is supposed to get 6 points not 0 points is he not? Let's look at the whole picture not just 1 corner of the mosaic stained glass window shall we. Thank you. 

[amfootball]

 

This is why I like Rob Ryan: ""If I get a chance, that'd be awesome. But, hey, the numbers are what they are. They don't look good," Ryan said. "But hell, it is what it is. This is a win business. And, hey, this is a 'tough-people' business, too. So I'll be great with whatever happens."

 

Ryan insisted, however, "If I'm back, I'm gonna start [the improvement] with me."

 

"Whatever I can do better, whatever we can do better ... if I have that opportunity," Ryan said. "If I don't, then I'm still gonna look in the mirror and make sure I do things right. But I've been coaching a long time. The best way for me is to be myself, and usually that works." 

 

You know exactly what your getting with Rob--Accountability, no nonsense, & a guy who always lands on his feet & is a survivor. Sean Payton is not immune from criticism & Drew Brees definitely had an off year. There's plenty of internal, self reflection to go around AMF. Also, you can be the best teacher of the game around, but if your players don't listen or execute your instructions to the letter it means absolutely nothing. 

 

I'm not absolving Rob by any means, but I'm not blindly burning him at the stake for all New Orleans defensive & secondary breakdowns either. A DC is supposed to stop another team from scoring & an HC is supposed to get 6 points not 0 points is he not? Let's look at the whole picture not just 1 corner of the mosaic stained glass window shall we. Thank you. 

 

Sure. I never said Ryan should be fired but as he said the stats don't lie. The defense has been horrible on a team that has not played well in any area. I am interested to see what the GM does this off-season.

[amfootball]

Your the best. What I said was this was the only one I can find that was recent. This is through week 16. You're probably pulling up stuff that was calculated in November. Anyway .. here's how the pass blocking was calculated . Much more than sack rate as you say. If you had just looked at the QB ratings which are very easily pulled up , you would have seen that what "seemed" to you was not the case at all. God... I always find theses things so interesting with you. I really can't ever remember you posting anything that was even close to backing up your ......

 

Anyway , I have no idea of how accurate this really was in rating offensive lines. You were the one that challenged me to look and I would find the Colts at 9 and the Pats at 27. I googled and saw 4-5 that were dated from July to November 1st. This one was late December which I thought would make sense to use as the others don't reflect more than probably 5-6 games. I can't help it if it showed the Pats with the #1 offensive line when it comes to rating run blocking with pass protection. It was YOU... YOU ... YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that brought up ratings. Not me. I so I'm stupid because I pulled up one of these things that said prove your point ?

 

Now just go find me something from middle December that ranks the Colts "AROUND" 9th and the Pats "AROUND " 27th.God sakes alive. You quote the ridiculous O line ratings and then call me stupid because the one I post doesn't suit you. MY GOD IN HEAVEN !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Anyway ... here's what that site said they used to rate pass protection. Appears to be far more than what you pooped out.

 

 

 

"Stats in blue represent pass blocking. Teams are ranked according to "ADJUSTED" Sack Rate, which gives sacks(plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down distance and opponent . Pass blocking stats are explained further here. Our pass blocking stats may differ slightly from official NFL totals depending on the leagues retroactive statistical adjustments.

It is difficult to rate OLs in general but sack rate or adjusted sack rate is not very comprehensive. You want a ranking that takes into account QB pressures and looks at sacks, hurries, knockdowns, batted balls, grounding, etc.  I had a great one from Rotoworld but it would not give me the whole list unless I paid for a subscription. Maddening! Perhaps our friend Dustin can help us as he is king of the stats.

 

In terms of the Pats Oline, they were dreadful the first four games of the season, got better at the mid-point and have struggled again late in the year. I do think if the Pats bow out this year it will be because of the Oline play. Just not good enough and consistent enough all year. I was not a fan of the Mankins trade. I get why they did it for business reasons but the timing was horrible. To lose your center piece two weeks before the start of the season is very difficult to overcome.

[MJD42]

Tough schedule? Right, playing the Jets, Dolphins and Bills twice a year is tough when none of those teams will win 10 games. That is what you call a winning record, not teams that will be lucky to go 9-7. This is not the AFC North, where 3 teams may actually reach the playoffs unlike the AFC East where no one has any offense.

 

Toughest games they played were Denver, Green Bay, and arguably San Diego...yeah you guys have it so rough playing cupcakes every year. The last time they had a "tough" schedule was 2009, and they barely went 10-6. Let's not forget when this Pats team made it to the SB in 2011 and went 1-3 against teams above .500, before losing to a 9-7 Giants team in the big one.

They played ten teams above .500 this season and yes two of those teams are in their division. I am not sure what you are even arguing. They played the divisional leaders of all the AFC divisions and BLEW them all out. They played Detroit when they were leading the NFC North and blew them out. They lost by 6 to GB in GB another divisional leader at the time they played. They have had one of the toughest schedules of any team in the league this year. I don't know why you are even trying to argue against it?

[dw49]

It is difficult to rate OLs in general but sack rate or adjusted sack rate is not very comprehensive. You want a ranking that takes into account QB pressures and looks at sacks, hurries, knockdowns, batted balls, grounding, etc.  I had a great one from Rotoworld but it would not give me the whole list unless I paid for a subscription. Maddening! Perhaps our friend Dustin can help us as he is king of the stats.

 

In terms of the Pats Oline, they were dreadful the first four games of the season, got better at the mid-point and have struggled again late in the year. I do think if the Pats bow out this year it will be because of the Oline play. Just not good enough and consistent enough all year. I was not a fan of the Mankins trade. I get why they did it for business reasons but the timing was horrible. To lose your center piece two weeks before the start of the season is very difficult to overcome.

 

 

I'm very aware that the Pat line was bad the first few weeks. They righted the ship. The Colt line was decent the first few games but has been horrible the past 7-8 games. If you go to any site that covers the Colts and read , you will find that it's in a state of disaster. We have a good LT and a LG with some promise. We are on our 3rd center and Thornton and Cherlius have been injured. Their replacements have been disaster s and the problem is those two guys were terrible all year when they were on the field. We have multiple games where the running game averages less than 1/2 yard per carry. I do realize that the Pats do still struggle vs elite defensive lines but it's still a better unit than the Colts are sending out there. We have been dominated by the Jags , Texans , Cleveland and just last week Dallas. Texans have Watt and little else , Cowboys and Cleveland are bad. 

[amfootball]

I'm very aware that the Pat line was bad the first few weeks. They righted the ship. The Colt line was decent the first few games but has been horrible the past 7-8 games. If you go to any site that covers the Colts and read , you will find that it's in a state of disaster. We have a good LT and a LG with some promise. We are on our 3rd center and Thornton and Cherlius have been injured. Their replacements have been disaster s and the problem is those two guys were terrible all year when they were on the field. We have multiple games where the running game averages less than 1/2 yard per carry. I do realize that the Pats do still struggle vs elite defensive lines but it's still a better unit than the Colts are sending out there. We have been dominated by the Jags , Texans , Cleveland and just last week Dallas. Texans have Watt and little else , Cowboys and Cleveland are bad. 

Yeah, I am not trying to say that the Colts are better or worse but was more arguing against your notion that Brady has put up an MVP caliber year on the strength of his Oline. He has succeeded despite it. The Pats have also been dominated by bad teams including the Jets twice and the Raiders. Any team with a stout front will given this unit issues.

 

BTW, here is that link to that listing from Oct. It was from PFF, https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/

 

I can't find a December one for some reason.

[dw49]

Yeah, I am not trying to say that the Colts are better or worse but was more arguing against your notion that Brady has put up an MVP caliber year on the strength of his Oline. He has succeeded despite it. The Pats have also been dominated by bad teams including the Jets twice and the Raiders. Any team with a stout front will given this unit issues.

 

BTW, here is that link to that listing from Oct. It was from PFF, https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/

 

I can't find a December one for some reason.

 

 

Jets are a bad team but the defensive front is considered by many tho be elite. 

 

As for that link , I don't want to say I told you so , but it's written after the week 5 games. I never said you were lying about the 27th and 9th , I just said I was sure it would be something written the first 4-5 weeks of the season. We all know that both lines went in the opposite direction as the season progressed. I didn't mean to say that the O line was the strong point of that team. Just saying that it's a little easier to be a good QB when you have some balance. If you watch Colt games now , it's just ignore the run , send blitzes at the weak middle and left side of the O line and hit Luck about on every play.

 

Brady no doubt had a very good year , we all are aware of that.

[southwest1]

Sure. I never said Ryan should be fired but as he said the stats don't lie. The defense has been horrible on a team that has not played well in any area. I am interested to see what the GM does this off-season.

"You are what your record says you are"--Bill Parcells 

 

I wasn't angry with you or anything like that AMF. True, it may look bleak right now for Rob Ryan returning as DC in Louisiana next year. You're not wrong in saying that. But, given Rob's outstanding 1st year there, he deserves one more season to see what he can do with healthy bodies because I honestly don't think what he did for the Saints last year was a fluke. Why do I say that? Because Rob beat the Patriots as the DC for the Browns under HC Eric Mangini in either 2009 or 2010 I can't remember which off the top of my head. 

 

I will admit that I have no idea what Rob's coaching style or demeanor is like behind closed doors so I will acknowledge that perhaps Rob's an intense guy who burns players out quickly. But, I also know that you don't survive as long as Rob does in this league if you suck either. His longevity suggests that there is a method to his madness & that madness continues to be sought after & employed by other NFL franchises. 

 

Like players if other head coaches think your techniques are obsolete DCs disappear from the football landscape. Rob's not going incognito or fading anytime soon. JMO. 

 

Just a shout out to Bogie, Cs4, & other Saints followers: What do Bayou fans think of Rob Ryan right now? Are they demanding his head on a silver platter or are they saying everybody stuck in the dome this year can we give Rob another chance? What is the consensus on sports radio? I'm asking because I don't know...I just wanna get the lay of the landscape that's all. 

[amfootball]

Jets are a bad team but the defensive front is considered by many tho be elite. 

 

As for that link , I don't want to say I told you so , but it's written after the week 5 games. I never said you were lying about the 27th and 9th , I just said I was sure it would be something written the first 4-5 weeks of the season. We all know that both lines went in the opposite direction as the season progressed. I didn't mean to say that the O line was the strong point of that team. Just saying that it's a little easier to be a good QB when you have some balance. If you watch Colt games now , it's just ignore the run , send blitzes at the weak middle and left side of the O line and hit Luck about on every play.

 

Brady no doubt had a very good year , we all are aware of that.

There is talk here that Denver should hire Rex Ryan when he is fired on Monday to be a "defensive consultant." Kind of like how the Patriots hired Josh McDaniels two years ago when the Rams fired him. For whatever reason, he is able to scheme so well vs the Pats. And you are right, he as the personnel to do it as well with that front. I am happy we won't see him again with the Jets.

 

In terms of Brady, I think his great year was propelled in part to having a legit QB behind him for the first time in his career. It was interesting to me that he decided this off-season to work so hard on his footwork. Could it be because it is the weakest part of his game and one of the biggest strengths for Jimmy? I think Brady feels pressure from this kid and that is a good thing for him to keep pushing. I do think some things may have been said to him the first four games and he responded along with the rest of the offensive because there was a marked changed not only in performance but attitude in week 5 vs the Bengals.

[southwest1]

There is talk here that Denver should hire Rex Ryan when he is fired on Monday to be a "defensive consultant." Kind of like how the Patriots hired Josh McDaniels two years ago when the Rams fired him. For whatever reason, he is able to scheme so well vs the Pats. And you are right, he as the personnel to do it as well with that front. I am happy we won't see him again with the Jets.

I can't see Rex as a "consultant" to any team. I'm curious to see if other owners view Ryan as a DC only now for awhile or HC material still. 

 

Tom & Bill probably breathed a sigh of relief over that division relocation too AMF. Bring him into INDY. Just for a chat at least. I'm not inciting a coordinator mutiny here; I'm just saying listen to Rex's sales pitch & what he brings to the Colts table that's all. Cross every T dot every i--Just being thorough. 

[amfootball]

I can't see Rex as a "consultant" to any team. I'm curious to see if other owners view Ryan as a DC only now for awhile or HC material still. 

 

Tom & Bill probably breathed a sigh of relief over that division relocation too AMF. Bring him into INDY. Just for a chat at least. I'm not inciting a coordinator mutiny here; I'm just saying listen to Rex's sales pitch & what he brings to the Colts table that's all. Cross every T dot every i--Just being thorough. 

Don't you guys like your DC? He has done a good job this year in light of Mathis' absence, right?

 

I am not sure Rex wants a demotion. I think he is looking for another HC job based on his comments this past week. He has never had a good QB in NY so I think with a good QB and his defensive mind, he could be successful. But he has to get better at developing QBs which was his biggest failing in NY IMO. There is also some noise that he will go into broadcasting.

[Shane Bond]

I will break it down nice and simple.

 

 

Defense gets all the blame, and yeah they're bad, but that don't mean the offense is innocent. Yep I'm talking about Drew Brees bad play, lack of deep throws, Sean Payton's inane play calling, and much much more.

 

Anyone that watches the Saints for more than a month will not disagree with me on this cause it's a fact - offense is nothing but short pass, ala dink and donk offense. Much like what the Patriots and Broncos run due to their aging QB's not being able to hit deep throws. For the Saints, the excuse I believe is stats. They don't care, as long as Brees gets his stats.

 

Did you know the Saints offense is ranked #1 in terms of yardage, yet they can't put more than 14 points on the board at home in their last two games?

 

I don't want to hear them complaining about lack of fan support either. As high as ticket prices are when we're in some of the worst economic conditions, I'm quite sure loud fans that leave while their team is sitting around doing nothing isn't the problem here.

 

 

Everything I hear about is how Rob Ryan needs to be fired and how the defense is so bad, so I am going to tell people, why the Saints shouldn't fire Rob Ryan and instead should be pointing fingers at Sean Payton and Drew Brees.

 

 

The Saints offense is stoppable. This has been proven all year, weather it be dumb turnovers or the fact they just do not score in the red zone period.

 

The short dink and donk offense may work for other teams, but with the Saints, it consists of long drives where they eat up 7 minutes on the clock, get to the red zone and then go for it on 4th down and come back with nothing.

 

The Pats also run this offense but there is a difference. They actually run the ball when their quarterback is struggling. They're not scared to get creative with pounding the ball. The Saints are the opposite. Earlier in the season we averaged over 150 rushing yards a game, in loses where Payton gave up on the run and Brees padded his stats.

 

You want to know the easy way to stopping Drew Brees? It's very simple. Run a Nickel defense, bringing up the safeties up front to shut down that pass to slot receivers. It comes down to short passes that never go beyond 10 yards and then the receiver doing the rest of the work.

If you want to make him feel pain, fine, blitz all you want. Brees (like the other "elite" quarterbacks, not named Aaron Rodgers) does not have any pocket awareness whatsoever. He never sees the hit coming from the side or behind, one of the main reasons he gets the ball knocked loose from his hand so often.

The Falcons came into the dome with just 16 sacks total. They proved that wasn't a problem cause Brees did not see them coming at all last sunday.

 

Oh yeah I forgot, cover Jimmy Graham. Don't care if you put 2 or 3, or even 4 guys on him, Brees will still force that ball to him....see the 49ers game for example. I am willing to bet and do math on all his interceptions in the last 2 years cause I'm sure over 3/4's of them came from balls he forces to Graham.

 

If the Saints get a good run game going thanks to great play by their running backs, don't worry. No matter how well the run works, they will give up on it and go back to the short dink and donk passes.

 

I noticed all year long, this team does not play anyone with real effort. Sure, they beat up Green Bay and Pittsburgh, but that's 2 games out of 15. They got lucky in those games too cause despite all the flack this defense catches, they did give Rodgers and Ben some problems with interceptions. Rodgers is having an MVP year and we lucked into getting two rare interceptions from him.

I give the defense praise cause they do get turnovers from time to time, they do at least try. That's something the offense does not do in crunch time.

 

Other than that, I'll admit it - Tampa Bay and Minnesota proved from the start this team had massive issues. It took a roughing the passer penalty against Minnesota (that almost was off set thanks to Brees wanting to brawl) and against Tampa Bay, I can go in long detail how my team needed 15 penalties to barely come back and beat a sorry Bucs team after our quarterback threw 3 bad interceptions.

 

At the end of the day, no one wants to talk about how screwed up our offense is. No one except me, amongst Saints fans, which isn't surpsing how hated I am among them for my honesty.

 

I can't remember the last time our offense came in and beat a top ranked defense. We get utterly destroyed by teams that know how to shut down the short pass dink and donk offense. Even Atlanta who's defense is ranked dead last, came in and sacked Brees 4 or 5 times last sunday and recorded 3 turnovers...OPPS! They did it again! Brees turnovers aren't that innocent!

 

The sad thing is, I know people of other fan bases that would do anything to have our run game. The Colts would be in heaven if Luck could hand the ball off and let Ingram/Thomas/Robinson run 120-130 yards on the ground and he not have to throw it so often. Imagine the Chargers with our run game.

 

This season was a lost cause. The Saints could have easily, limited their millioniare quarterback and made him take the back seat and forced the run game to be the premium of our offense, with the pass only there to carry the run, nope, not gonna happen with these egos on board. At least they get their stats. At least they have their passing stats to remind me of when I see that 6-9 record.

 

If there is such thing as karma, then Tampa Bay will extract revenge on this team in a few days. Revenge from what? Revenge from getting screwed in the superdome when they were up by 2 scores. Anyone that watched that game, you know what I'm talking about where the inane penalties on Tampa's offense backed them up from the 20 yardline all the way to the goal line where Glennon got sacked for a safety and that turned the game around.

As a fan, yeah, you don't mind getting calls like that. But I overanalyze this stuff and it bothered me when I watched it, and still does to this day. I don't even care if they win Sunday. They showed how much they really cared when they Atlanta trounce them and then blamed the fans for leaving the dome early. Of all the Jazz clubs in N.O., oh hell yeah I'd leave early instead of watching them lose like that. So if Tampa wants to come out and make them pay, I'm all for it. We deserve it, we deserved our pain and suffering this year that's for sure.

 

Last but not least - if this year proved anything to me in terms of quarterbacks, it's that I have been wrong. I am wrong for when I was overly hard on Aaron Rodgers for his playoff struggles. Of the 4 "elite" quarterbacks, and for the love of everything, do I hate using that word, but at the end of the day, Rodgers is the only one that deserves that title. He's the only one that can handle pressure and move around, not limiting himself to the pocket, and he's the only one that can still launch a bomb and actually complete it. I don't see the same quarterback I used to see in the other 3 golden boys.

Because they cant cheat anymore

[Shane Bond]

I can't see Rex as a "consultant" to any team. I'm curious to see if other owners view Ryan as a DC only now for awhile or HC material still. 

 

Tom & Bill probably breathed a sigh of relief over that division relocation too AMF. Bring him into INDY. Just for a chat at least. I'm not inciting a coordinator mutiny here; I'm just saying listen to Rex's sales pitch & what he brings to the Colts table that's all. Cross every T dot every i--Just being thorough. 

The best defensive co-ordinator in the NFL today is Rex Ryan. Colts should get him.

[Synthetic]

Because they cant cheat anymore

 

 

Define "cheating", without sounding like a sore loser your golden boy gave us a Super Bowl.

 

Or just stick to arrogant one liners like you always do.

[Shane Bond]

Define "cheating", without sounding like a sore loser your golden boy gave us a Super Bowl.

 

Or just stick to arrogant one liners like you always do.

Look who is using the word arrogant

 

I got 2 words for you. No its not Zack Efron. Its Bounty Gate.

[BloodyChamp]

Nick Toon just got owned, threw away and reowned.

The Saints cheated in 2009 and everybody kmows it. There's no shame in being sore about losing like that.