Who Will Fetch More In A Trade - Luck Or Peyton?

[chad72]

My friend and I were having this conversation in the break room. He was telling me that if Carson Palmer could potentially get the Bengals 2 first round picks and Cutler was traded for 2 first round picks, imagine what Manning would get us.

I responded by saying "first, it is subject to a physical and second, both Palmer and Cutler were at least 4-5 years or more younger than Peyton at the time of the trade and none of them came off 3 surgeries to their neck; so Luck will fetch just as much as Peyton in a trade if not more due to his hyped potential and age/health factors".

Don't you think that is very much reasonable, that Luck would fetch at least as much as Peyton, if not more in a trade?? Discuss.

Edited November 7, 2011 by chad72

[HotSauce87]

Manning is worth two 1st rounders and a 2nd plus 2 players easily.

[HotSauce87]

Manning is worth two 1st rounders a 2nd plus 2 players easily.

[chad72]

Manning is worth two 1st rounders and a 2nd plus 2 players easily.

He is probably worth 2 first rounders at best right now with his age and the risk another team is taking with his salary and health.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Manning has zero trade value. 28 million option due, 35million in base salaries due. Nobody else is going to pay that on top of giving up something we would be happy with in actually trading him.

There are 3 options.

He retires

He is a Colt next year,

His option is not picked up and he's a free agent free to sign anywhere.

That is it.

[jackbutton96]

Manning has zero trade value. 28 million option due, 35million in base salaries due. Nobody else is going to pay that on top of giving up something we would be happy with in actually trading him.

There are 3 options.

He retires

He is a Colt next year,

His option is not picked up and he's a free agent free to sign anywhere.

That is it.

Not true, there is another option. We could renegotiate his contract and then trade him. With the way that Peyton has handled his business in the past, I see every indication he would be willing to do such a thing. That way, he'd allow the Colts to get something out of him instead of taking a total loss, and he'd have more options as far as which teams he could go to. A real class move would be to see Irsay go ahead and pay him that enourmous bonus, then go ahead and trade him. Peyton deserves it, plus it'd take a bit of the heat off of Irsay for trading him.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Not true, there is another option. We could renegotiate his contract and then trade him. With the way that Peyton has handled his business in the past, I see every indication he would be willing to do such a thing. That way, he'd allow the Colts to get something out of him instead of taking a total loss, and he'd have more options as far as which teams he could go to. A real class move would be to see Irsay go ahead and pay him that enourmous bonus, then go ahead and trade him. Peyton deserves it, plus it'd take a bit of the heat off of Irsay for trading him.

He's already going to count 16 million against the cap if he's traded or released. Paying him the bonus would only increase that cap hit.

[KyFan18]

Not true, there is another option. We could renegotiate his contract and then trade him. With the way that Peyton has handled his business in the past, I see every indication he would be willing to do such a thing. That way, he'd allow the Colts to get something out of him instead of taking a total loss, and he'd have more options as far as which teams he could go to. A real class move would be to see Irsay go ahead and pay him that enourmous bonus, then go ahead and trade him. Peyton deserves it, plus it'd take a bit of the heat off of Irsay for trading him.

Irsay: Hey, we don't want you anymore. We're going with this kid who has never thrown a pass. You cool with that?

Peyton: I understand. So I guess I'm free to go talk with other teams and negotiate a contract?

Irsay: Actually, we'd like to restructure your contract so that we can set your salary to make you more attractive to other teams so that we can squeeze even more out of you than you've already given us. I know we never did anything like this to build a team while you were here, but we really want to put some solid pieces in place for this unproven kid.

That wouldn't be an awkward conversation at all.

[jackbutton96]

Irsay: Hey, we don't want you anymore. We're going with this kid who has never thrown a pass. You cool with that?

Peyton: I understand. So I guess I'm free to go talk with other teams and negotiate a contract?

Irsay: Actually, we'd like to restructure your contract so that we can set your salary to make you more attractive to other teams so that we can squeeze even more out of you than you've already given us. I know we never did anything like this to build a team while you were here, but we really want to put some solid pieces in place for this unproven kid.

That wouldn't be an awkward conversation at all.

Hey man, Peyton is no fool. He fully understands all of the angles concerning the situation that is transpiring between himself, his injury, the Colts, and the future of the Colts. He understands that no other team is going to be willing to pay him his current contract considering the neck problems. More than anything, Peyton wants to play and he wants to win. If his chances of doing that are better elsewhere, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if he were the one to bring up the conversation. If we picked up the option, there would be virtually no chance that any team would be willing to trade for him and pick up that contract. He knows that, even if he shows us that he is healthy and whatnot, there's still a good chance that we draft Luck, which further cripples our ability to put a good team around him. Plus then he'll have to look over his shoulder anytime he isn't up to his usual form. Unless Peyton shows that he's fully healed before the deadline (for his big bonus), and we give him all assurances that we won't be drafting Luck, then Indy isn't the best option for him. Peyton is very loyal, but I think he should and will do what is best for him. If that means working out a deal that will enable him to go to another team where he will be the undisputed #1 QB and have a legitimate chance at getting another Super Bowl ring, then that's what I believe he will try to get done. If we just let him walk, it's likely that he'll only get offers with lots of out clauses in them in case his neck becomes a problem. The last thing he wants is to get picked up by some team, be a little rusty over the course of the preseason (which should be expected from any QB that just missed an entire season), then get cut before the season by his new team because they aren't sure about him and decide to cut him lose before they have to really pay him. If we renegotiate a deal with him, let's say a one year guaranteed deal with an option for the second year, with the first year being around $10 mil, then he'd have the assurance that whatever team ends up with him would be fully invested for at least that whole first season, and would thusly be more patient with whatever bumps in the road he might have along the way while trying to regain his old form. I think it makes sense for both sides, but maybe that's just me...

[KyFan18]

Hey man, Peyton is no fool. He fully understands all of the angles concerning the situation that is transpiring between himself, his injury, the Colts, and the future of the Colts. He understands that no other team is going to be willing to pay him his current contract considering the neck problems. More than anything, Peyton wants to play and he wants to win. If his chances of doing that are better elsewhere, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if he were the one to bring up the conversation. If we picked up the option, there would be virtually no chance that any team would be willing to trade for him and pick up that contract. He knows that, even if he shows us that he is healthy and whatnot, there's still a good chance that we draft Luck, which further cripples our ability to put a good team around him. Plus then he'll have to look over his shoulder anytime he isn't up to his usual form. Unless Peyton shows that he's fully healed before the deadline (for his big bonus), and we give him all assurances that we won't be drafting Luck, then Indy isn't the best option for him. Peyton is very loyal, but I think he should and will do what is best for him. If that means working out a deal that will enable him to go to another team where he will be the undisputed #1 QB and have a legitimate chance at getting another Super Bowl ring, then that's what I believe he will try to get done. If we just let him walk, it's likely that he'll only get offers with lots of out clauses in them in case his neck becomes a problem. The last thing he wants is to get picked up by some team, be a little rusty over the course of the preseason (which should be expected from any QB that just missed an entire season), then get cut before the season by his new team because they aren't sure about him and decide to cut him lose before they have to really pay him. If we renegotiate a deal with him, let's say a one year guaranteed deal with an option for the second year, with the first year being around $10 mil, then he'd have the assurance that whatever team ends up with him would be fully invested for at least that whole first season, and would thusly be more patient with whatever bumps in the road he might have along the way while trying to regain his old form. I think it makes sense for both sides, but maybe that's just me...

What I'm saying is that if the Colts are going to draft Luck, they should decline Peyton's option and allow him to work out his own contract with whatever team he wants rather than sticking him with a contract before he even negotiates with other teams.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Not true, there is another option. We could renegotiate his contract and then trade him. With the way that Peyton has handled his business in the past, I see every indication he would be willing to do such a thing. That way, he'd allow the Colts to get something out of him instead of taking a total loss, and he'd have more options as far as which teams he could go to. A real class move would be to see Irsay go ahead and pay him that enourmous bonus, then go ahead and trade him. Peyton deserves it, plus it'd take a bit of the heat off of Irsay for trading him.

If he was a free agent he could go anywhere he wants too. In a trade he is restricted by the colts.

[Ramblinwreck7]

And Andrew Luck is easily worth more in a trade, so don't even suggest trading Peyton Manning.

[GoGoColts]

Manning has zero trade value. 28 million option due, 35million in base salaries due. Nobody else is going to pay that on top of giving up something we would be happy with in actually trading him.

There are 3 options.

He retires

He is a Colt next year,

His option is not picked up and he's a free agent free to sign anywhere.

That is it.

Yup, until he plays a season, a trade ain't happening.

[jackbutton96]

If he was a free agent he could go anywhere he wants too. In a trade he is restricted by the colts.

Sorry, I'm sick as a dog and not thinking straight. I should have clarified... I meant he'd have more options as far as teams interested in him if we renegotiated his contract and traded him as opposed to picking up his current contract and then trading him.

[jackbutton96]

I just can't imagine that we'd ever just let him walk.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Sorry, I'm sick as a dog and not thinking straight. I should have clarified... I meant he'd have more options as far as teams interested in him if we renegotiated his contract and traded him as opposed to picking up his current contract and then trading him.

He's already going to cost 16 million against our cap if he's released or traded. I'm not sure if he can rework it that way. I know Carson Palmer re-worked his, but I thought that after he was traded.

Edited November 8, 2011 by firejimcaldwell

[jackbutton96]

I'm not sure either, but wouldn't you think that if a player opts to renegotiate his contract, that the previous contract would become totally null and void? Which would then erase that $16 mil cap hit and adjust it to whatever the new contract specifies... ????

[FireJimCaldwell]

I'm not sure either, but wouldn't you think that if a player opts to renegotiate his contract, that the previous contract would become totally null and void? Which would then erase that $16 mil cap hit and adjust it to whatever the new contract specifies... ????

When he signed the deal in training camp, he was paid a 20 million signing bonus. For cap purposes, that is divided by the 5 years of the contract.

His Salary cap # for this year is made up of:

Signing Bonus: 4,000,000

Base Salary: 3,400,000

Workout/Roster Bonus: 8,600,000.

Total of 16,000,000,

If we do not pick up that option then the remainder of the 16,000,000 of the signing bonus accelerates into the next year. Or if we are lucky it can be divided into 8 million in 2012, and 8 million in 2013, if the June 1 clause made it into the new CBA.

The only thing wiped clean is 28 million option bonus dollars, and the remainder of the 34million he was to earn as a base salary over the next 4 years.

If teams could rework a contract to remove a cap hit they would do it all the time, that is why i don't believe anything can be done. If we were to pay him the 28 million and he were done after a year, we would then be on the hook for the 12 remaining and then 21 from the option bonus, so we will need to know before paying that 28 million whether or not he can play or not.

That is why i said he's not going to be traded. I'm not 100% sure, but I think his bonus is due prior to trades being an option for next year anyway.

[jackbutton96]

When he signed the deal in training camp, he was paid a 20 million signing bonus. For cap purposes, that is divided by the 5 years of the contract.

His Salary cap # for this year is made up of:

Signing Bonus: 4,000,000

Base Salary: 3,400,000

Workout/Roster Bonus: 8,600,000.

Total of 16,000,000,

If we do not pick up that option then the remainder of the 16,000,000 of the signing bonus accelerates into the next year. Or if we are lucky it can be divided into 8 million in 2012, and 8 million in 2013, if the June 1 clause made it into the new CBA.

The only thing wiped clean is 28 million option bonus dollars, and the remainder of the 34million he was to earn as a base salary over the next 4 years.

If teams could rework a contract to remove a cap hit they would do it all the time, that is why i don't believe anything can be done. If we were to pay him the 28 million and he were done after a year, we would then be on the hook for the 12 remaining and then 21 from the option bonus, so we will need to know before paying that 28 million whether or not he can play or not.

That is why i said he's not going to be traded. I'm not 100% sure, but I think his bonus is due prior to trades being an option for next year anyway.

Right on, I gotcha man. Good information there :thmsup:

[doogansquest]

I think it becomes a question of which QB gets us more to help the one that stays.

ie: would trading Manning net pieces that help Luck make the Colts a contender? Not if the team us as bad as you all say.

Trading Luck, however, may net us some helpful pieces to push Manning over the hump. We know Manning is a Super Bowl contender on his own.

[KyFan18]

I think it becomes a question of which QB gets us more to help the one that stays.

ie: would trading Manning net pieces that help Luck make the Colts a contender? Not if the team us as bad as you all say.

Trading Luck, however, may net us some helpful pieces to push Manning over the hump. We know Manning is a Super Bowl contender on his own.

Agree 100%

[oldunclemark]

My friend and I were having this conversation in the break room. He was telling me that if Carson Palmer could potentially get the Bengals 2 first round picks and Cutler was traded for 2 first round picks, imagine what Manning would get us.

I responded by saying "first, it is subject to a physical and second, both Palmer and Cutler were at least 4-5 years or more younger than Peyton at the time of the trade and none of them came off 3 surgeries to their neck; so Luck will fetch just as much as Peyton in a trade if not more due to his hyped potential and age/health factors".

Don't you think that is very much reasonable, that Luck would fetch at least as much as Peyton, if not more in a trade?? Discuss.

Luck would get MUCH more because he's never lost an NFL game and he;s never been hurt..

You can talk people (read: Miami/SF) into believing Luck is Johnny Unitas and get 5 picks for him...

[MTC]

Andrew Luck.. no question

[mr. football]

I think it becomes a question of which QB gets us more to help the one that stays.

ie: would trading Manning net pieces that help Luck make the Colts a contender? Not if the team us as bad as you all say.

Trading Luck, however, may net us some helpful pieces to push Manning over the hump. We know Manning is a Super Bowl contender on his own.

i gotta agree with this. good post!

[super8todd]

Luck is worth more in a trade because he is a long future for a franchise. Peyton is amazing, but is limited by his clouded future.. possibly only a 2-3yr span to play, and whether he recovers completely is a mystery. It would be foolish to trade either for next year, we will have the most amazing amount of bargaining chips come next year.