Greg Salas WR

[YOUR GM]

???

It can't just be a discussion? Who's arguing? Who is speaking as if their opinion is absolute?

All I said is that I don't think either of them have the potential to be our future #1 receiver. I could very easily be wrong; it would be awesome if either of those guys turned into a star player. I personally really, really like TY Hilton, and did even before the draft. I'm a fan of his. He can be awesome. Kris Adams has great size and athleticism, and if he can develop the attributes of a big time receiver (like good route running and reliable hands, two attributes that I don't think he has right now), we'd have one heck of a player. I'm not rooting against either of them. I'm just saying I don't think either of them is #1 material.

And I'm also saying I don't think either of them has the pedigree at this point in their career that Reggie had as a rookie. Draft position does matter; Reggie had proven talent and was a consensus #1 pick. Neither Adams nor Hilton can say that. It doesn't mean I think they they're bums. I'm NOT writing either of them off.

You're putting me in a box. I'm just saying I don't think either of them is #1 material, not that I don't think they can be good players. Wes Welker has led the Pats in catches several years now, but he's not a #1 receiver, not like what we're talking about. That's all I'm saying.

I guess I just don't get your point. There's been plenty of players with college pedigree who have failed at the next level. When I watch TY play, I see a player who is fast and good in space. I see no reason why he can't turn into a Percy Harvin/ Desean Jackson caliber player. Kris Adams has the physical tools to be a number 1 receiver. He is still young and raw enough that (with some good coaching & a little opportunity) he could very well end up as our top receiver.

Reggie had under 300 yards (and change) receiving, no TD's and plenty of drops in his rookie season. He did not look the part early on. He worked hard and got good coaching in order to become the player he is today. The only thing his pedigree got him was more money in his pocket initially. If draft position and a case of the dropsies are your only reasons for thinking neither player can become #1 targets, so be it. As I said, there's plenty of receivers who didn't have 'pedigree' entering the league and have gone on to become pro bowlers. As for the drops, that's called being a rookie. It happens to the best of them.

[Superman]

I guess I just don't get your point. There's been plenty of players with college pedigree who have failed at the next level. When I watch TY play, I see a player who is fast and good in space. I see no reason why he can't turn into a Percy Harvin/ Desean Jackson caliber player. Kris Adams has the physical tools to be a number 1 receiver. He is still young and raw enough that (with some good coaching & a little opportunity) he could very well end up as our top receiver.

Reggie had under 300 yards (and change) receiving, no TD's and plenty of drops in his rookie season. He did not look the part early on. He worked hard and got good coaching in order to become the player he is today. The only thing his pedigree got him was more money in his pocket initially. If draft position and a case of the dropsies are your only reasons for thinking neither player can become #1 targets, so be it. As I said, there's plenty of receivers who didn't have 'pedigree' entering the league and have gone on to become pro bowlers. As for the drops, that's called being a rookie. It happens to the best of them.

Going back to your post I first quoted, you were responding to a poster that was saying that if we look at another receiver, it would be a big one in the draft. I took that to mean a guy with a lot of size and potential who could be groomed into a #1 receiver. To be honest, I don't think even Reggie fits that part. He was drafted as a supplement to Harrison who would help our offense blossom, and that's what he was for the first eight years of his career. But he's not the kind of receiver I assumed the other poster was talking about.

The receiver I thought the other poster was talking about, I don't think is on our roster. I'd love to have him, but I'm not excited about the prospect of spending a draft spot on him next year. We agree there, absolutely.

For Hilton and Adams, I'm not down on either. I'm just saying I don't anticipate either of them becoming the kind of #1 receiver we're looking for to replace Reggie. They obviously could, and that would be awesome. But like I said originally, that's a very optimistic outlook. It's pretty high optimism for Hilton to turn into a Harvin-type player, and I don't view Harvin as the kind of #1 receiver we're talking about. Very good player, but not of the mold we're talking about that would be worthy of a high draft pick. Same for Desean Jackson.

Earlier in this thread, I compared Kris Adams to JJ Stokes, who had some pretty good years. That would be a very good return for a player we got for essentially nothing, someone that three other teams have already parted ways with. Nothing against him, and that doesn't mean he can't turn into a good player with coaching and the right circumstances. But, again, that's highly optimistic. I don't think pointing out that he's not exactly a shoo-in to be a top notch receiver is pessimism.

I really like Hilton. I'm not as high on Adams, but I like his size and athleticism. Not worried about the drops either; it goes with the territory. But I wouldn't necessarily forgo spending a high draft pick on a potentially game-breaking receiver because of either Hilton or Adams, not unless one or both of them explodes this season. However, because of them (Hilton, more than Adams), I don't see receiver as a position of particular need for us after this season. Like I said, we agree there.

[Gavin]

I cant say what kind of receiver Arians is looking for in this system, it would appear smaller faster jitter bug type receivers but then you look at Adams and he is anything but small but he does offer plenty of speed and to me says deep threat who can go up and get the ball and he certainly deserves some packages that include him, so far Arians has shown a tendency to want to throw the ball down field, in Lucks completions he is averaging 12.3 yards per completion but 7.0 yards per attempt otherwise, Im hoping he targets Fleener and Allen more on those short to intermediate attempts, Allen to me does not see enough targets, that would certainly help to get those Linebackers to peel off and not stack the box, I think they should both get 3-4 for attempts a game depending on how aggressive the opposing defense is for example Chicago is an aggressive defense and Fleener got 8 catches becase the middle of the field was exposed sometimes

[YOUR GM]

Going back to your post I first quoted, you were responding to a poster that was saying that if we look at another receiver, it would be a big one in the draft. I took that to mean a guy with a lot of size and potential who could be groomed into a #1 receiver. To be honest, I don't think even Reggie fits that part. He was drafted as a supplement to Harrison who would help our offense blossom, and that's what he was for the first eight years of his career. But he's not the kind of receiver I assumed the other poster was talking about.

The receiver I thought the other poster was talking about, I don't think is on our roster. I'd love to have him, but I'm not excited about the prospect of spending a draft spot on him next year. We agree there, absolutely.

For Hilton and Adams, I'm not down on either. I'm just saying I don't anticipate either of them becoming the kind of #1 receiver we're looking for to replace Reggie. They obviously could, and that would be awesome. But like I said originally, that's a very optimistic outlook. It's pretty high optimism for Hilton to turn into a Harvin-type player, and I don't view Harvin as the kind of #1 receiver we're talking about. Very good player, but not of the mold we're talking about that would be worthy of a high draft pick. Same for Desean Jackson.

Earlier in this thread, I compared Kris Adams to JJ Stokes, who had some pretty good years. That would be a very good return for a player we got for essentially nothing, someone that three other teams have already parted ways with. Nothing against him, and that doesn't mean he can't turn into a good player with coaching and the right circumstances. But, again, that's highly optimistic. I don't think pointing out that he's not exactly a shoo-in to be a top notch receiver is pessimism.

I really like Hilton. I'm not as high on Adams, but I like his size and athleticism. Not worried about the drops either; it goes with the territory. But I wouldn't necessarily forgo spending a high draft pick on a potentially game-breaking receiver because of either Hilton or Adams, not unless one or both of them explodes this season. However, because of them (Hilton, more than Adams), I don't see receiver as a position of particular need for us after this season. Like I said, we agree there.

All I said was Reggie's replacement was already on the roster. I didn't say the next Calvin Johnson was on our roster. I think Arians drafted Hilton, envisioning Mike Wallace/Antonio Brown potential, and was planning on grooming he and/or Brazil to be Reggie's eventual replacement. Kris Adams generated buzz at training camp and has impressed the coaches to the point that he's made his way into the rotation now. It is just my opinion that 1 of those young receivers will end up emerging as our top target. Arians is a guru at developing receivers, so it's not a stretch to think he could coach our young guys into stardom. The only way I see the Colts going after a receiver in the draft is if Collie ends up retiring. Even still, I don't expect it to be a high draft pick at all.

I don't know what your definition of a top target is, but I simply look at it as a guy that can run any type of route and is able to get open consistently. I don't care if that guy is 5'4 or 7'2, so long as he can make plays. Any one of our young players could emerge into that role. With the way Avery is playing, he may end up in our long term plans at receiver, as well.

[Superman]

All I said was Reggie's replacement was already on the roster. I didn't say the next Calvin Johnson was on our roster. I think Arians drafted Hilton, envisioning Mike Wallace/Antonio Brown potential, and was planning on grooming he and/or Brazil to be Reggie's eventual replacement. Kris Adams generated buzz at training camp and has impressed the coaches to the point that he's made his way into the rotation now. It is just my opinion that 1 of those young receivers will end up emerging as our top target. Arians is a guru at developing receivers, so it's not a stretch to think he could coach our young guys into stardom. The only way I see the Colts going after a receiver in the draft is if Collie ends up retiring. Even still, I don't expect it to be a high draft pick at all.

I don't know what your definition of a top target is, but I simply look at it as a guy that can run any type of route and is able to get open consistently. I don't care if that guy is 5'4 or 7'2, so long as he can make plays. Any one of our young players could emerge into that role. With the way Avery is playing, he may end up in our long term plans at receiver, as well.

Cool deal. I think I understand you better, and I hope you understand me better.

[YOUR GM]

Cool deal. I think I understand you better, and I hope you understand me better.

Yeah, I get what you're saying now