Where will Ray Rice end up?

[DougDew]

You seem to over look that the judicial system failed in this case. As far as your comment about mob stoning, it's call having an opinion and feeling strong about it. Hitting and knocking a woman out is not acceptable. Primitive is exactly what Rice faced when being punished. He should be in jail, not thinking about playing football.

How do you know it failed....because you have more facts than the judge did...by watching a video?

[DougDew]

That's an intertesing comment.......

Knocking your wife out is an intentional act. It could be manslaughter..

The only legal difference between OJ and ray is the way their wife's head hit the floor...and the result

If Mrs. Rice dies hitting her head after being knocked out...Ray's in jail

OMG, its not even remotely close to OJ. OJ planned and intended to slit his wife's throat. Rice didn't even intend to knock her out. He intended to punch her, for about 2 seconds right before he did, because they were arguing, and accidentally knocked her out.

Ok. How about the other way. How about if she didn't get knocked out, should we treat the situation that he could've knocked her out?

If someone is driving 100 mph, should they be treated like they lost control and wiped out 4 people?

Its pretty obvious that most on this forum are not qualified to administer law.....but they try anyway...which is the essence of my point.

And to the broader point....people that actually DO commit manslaughter get to pursue meaningful lives after they serve their time...they should not be shunned by the public.

This forum is crazy.

[crazycolt1]

so, its worse because it was on camera?

Is that what I said? The camera makes no difference as he is guilty.

[crazycolt1]

So if it isn't on tape, its ok to sign him?

Why are you putting words into peoples mouths?

[crazycolt1]

How do you know it failed....because you have more facts than the judge did...by watching a video?

It failed because he is not sitting in jail. The judge in this case took into account he was a NFL player and even took witness from the abused. That is unheard of in most court systems. But if you choose to defend Rice that's on you. IMO the Colts need to stay as far away as possible from Rice. If you feel different so be it.

[Yoshinator]

How do you know it failed....because you have more facts than the judge did...by watching a video?

The video shows it's fact that he hit her and not speculation. There is only one fact that needs to be known, did he hit her? The tape unquestionably proves that he did just that and that the story wasn't made up. That's all the judge should need to know to lay down the law on Rice.

[jvan1973]

Is that what I said? The camera makes no difference as he is guilty.

there are many players in the league that have been found guilty of domestic abuse and have continued playing

[Darryl C. Patrick]

OMG, its not even remotely close to OJ. OJ planned and intended to slit his wife's throat. Rice didn't even intend to knock her out. He intended to punch her, for about 2 seconds right before he did, because they were arguing, and accidentally knocked her out.

Ok. How about the other way. How about if she didn't get knocked out, should we treat the situation that he could've knocked her out?

If someone is driving 100 mph, should they be treated like they lost control and wiped out 4 people?

Its pretty obvious that most on this forum are not qualified to administer law.....but they try anyway...which is the essence of my point.

And to the broader point....people that actually DO commit manslaughter get to pursue meaningful lives after they serve their time...they should not be shunned by the public.

This forum is crazy.

Hey, how about it everyone just calm down and stop the name calling. No one in the forum, or the entire forum, isn't "crazy' just because they differ in opinions from someone elses'. That's what happens in democracies. For instance, you aren't crazy for your comments about O.J. due to the fact that O.J. was actually EXONERATED of the Murders he was charged with, so by the law of the land, he didn't plan or intend to slit his wife's or anyone else's throat. Only PUBLIC OPINION allowed people such as yourself to make those comments and state them as fact, which was never proven. So, lets just keep this conversation civil and about Ray Rice's possible football career in reference to the Colts. JS  

[crazycolt1]

there are many players in the league that have been found guilty of domestic abuse and have continued playing

That has zero to do with my not wanting him playing for the Colts. If you don't care that's fine. This back and forth is childish at most.

[jvan1973]

That has zero to do with my not wanting him playing for the Colts. If you don't care that's fine. This back and forth is childish at most.

The thread is where will he end up. You haven't mentioned him playing for the colts. The topic you were quoting was referring to him playing in the nfl again. Also, there is an accused domestic violence offender on the colts right now, and others n the past

[crazycolt1]

The thread is where will he end up. You haven't mentioned him playing for the colts. The topic you were quoting was referring to him playing in the nfl again. Also, there is an accused domestic violence offender on the colts right now, and others n the past

I really don't care. I said I didn't want Rice playing for the Colts. What is so hard to understand? Enough already. If you want to debate with some other poster that's fine. I have no more to discuss about Ray Rice. Jeez.

[jvan1973]

I really don't care. I said I didn't want Rice playing for the Colts. What is so hard to understand? Enough already. If you want to debate with some other poster that's fine. I have no more to discuss about Ray Rice. Jeez.

Then why continue to respond?

[DougDew]

Hey, how about it everyone just calm down and stop the name calling. No one in the forum, or the entire forum, isn't "crazy' just because they differ in opinions from someone elses'. That's what happens in democracies. For instance, you aren't crazy for your comments about O.J. due to the fact that O.J. was actually EXONERATED of the Murders he was charged with, so by the law of the land, he didn't plan or intend to slit his wife's or anyone else's throat. Only PUBLIC OPINION allowed people such as yourself to make those comments and state them as fact, which was never proven. So, lets just keep this conversation civil and about Ray Rice's possible football career in reference to the Colts. JS

You're absolutely right. No one is crazy simply because their opinions differ from someone else's. They are crazy when the explanation of their opinion makes no sense.

The crime Rice committed and the one OJ committed are not in the same universe. I can make that statement. There is enough documentation in the public arena, including the actual broadcast of the OJ trail, for a person to logically conclude that both committed their crimes.

But what is NOT logical, is to conclude that the punishment, (not the verdict), given to Rice was too light... because the only thing anybody has seen is the video. We did not see any defense testimony like we did in the OJ trial, so our basis for criticizing the judicial system's (light) punishment is not supported.

We have plenty of evidence to conclude that the punishment (and even the verdict) for OJ was too light. We don't have enough evidence to conclude that the punishment for Rice was too light.

Yet many ignore that and continue to pass judgment on the adequacy of Rice's punishment. The degree of punishment was the basis of the chatter for weeks. Its not logical.

Yes, I stand by my original post. Many in the public arena are more concerned about grandstanding for a social cause than they are about being fair to an individual.

[pacolts56]

You're absolutely right. No one is crazy simply because their opinions differ from someone else's. They are crazy when the explanation of their opinion makes no sense.

The crime Rice committed and the one OJ committed are not in the same universe. I can make that statement. There is enough documentation in the public arena, including the actual broadcast of the OJ trail, for a person to logically conclude that both committed their crimes.

But what is NOT logical, is to conclude that the punishment, (not the verdict), given to Rice was too light... because the only thing anybody has seen is the video. We did not see any defense testimony like we did in the OJ trial, so our basis for criticizing the judicial systems (light) punishment is not supported.

We have plenty of evidence to conclude that the punishment (and even the verdict) for OJ was too light. We don't have enough evidence to conclude that the punishment for Rice was too light.

Yet many ignore that and continue to pass judgment on the adequacy of Rice's punishment. The degree of punishment was the basis of the chatter for weeks. Its not logical.

Yes, I stand by my original post. People are more concerned about their grandstanding to send a social message than they are about being fair to an individual.

Under the law in NJ, you're right....his lawyer played the available options to the best possible outcome.

 

Personally, I happen to think the both of them should have been electrocuted in the balls if they actually did what they allegedly did....but unfortunately, I don't know exactly what happened and I don't make the law.

[Valpo2004]

You seem to over look that the judicial system failed in this case. As far as your comment about mob stoning, it's call having an opinion and feeling strong about it. Hitting and knocking a woman out is not acceptable. Primitive is exactly what Rice faced when being punished. He should be in jail, not thinking about playing football.

 

When you treat someone like a primative being they only act in a more primative manner.  

 

Josh Brent got a man killed because he drank and drove and he's back in the NFL.  But I guess that's ok since it was a man that died.

 

This is why this is a moral panic. . . we lose all sense of balance.  A woman got hit and knocked out.  Yes there should be centure for that, and the law should have done more, not prison but more then just a class.  But when a person who hits another person is considered more evil then a person who gets someone killed, primarily because of the gender of the victims it's a moral panic.

 

Also it's a moral panic because no one stops and considers things from all angles.  If you watch the video she attempted to elbow him and then charged him, that's when she got hit.  Did he over react. . . yeah. . . but she wasn't charging him to give him a hug.

[Valpo2004]

It failed because he is not sitting in jail. The judge in this case took into account he was a NFL player and even took witness from the abused. That is unheard of in most court systems. But if you choose to defend Rice that's on you. IMO the Colts need to stay as far away as possible from Rice. If you feel different so be it.

 

Putting someone in prison with other violent people only causes them to become more violent.  Is it sometimes necessary to lock someone up. . . yes.  Is this one of those times. . . no

[Valpo2004]

No, we have more crime, because the unevolved among us react emotionally and want quick actions to satisfy their anger. ..

The judicial system investigates and weighs evidence.

Most everybody was willing to form a conclusive and extreme position just by watching a video...see what I mean?

 

I don't disagree, but the Judicial system is subject to the law which is ultimately in the hands of voters.  

 

A judge can only punish in the ways that the law allows him to do so.  If the law tells him this person must be sent to prison where he will face violence on a daily basis, then he has to send that person to prison, even if he knows that doing so only increases the chances that he will re-offend.

 

Also prosecutors are elected and juries come from the general public.  So people who react to crime with anger as opposed to logic have a lot of sway on the judicial system.

 

I trust the judicial system for the most part in terms of weighing evidence and determining guilt or innocence.  It's not perfect but it's a good system.  But when it comes to other things, overcharging, punishment, etc, the public has a great deal of control here and the public demands that the law satisfy it's anger and not attempt to fix the problem. 

 

And then there is the whole bit about those with histories not being able to find employment or stable living conditions afterwards which only serves to encourage them to re-offend.

[Darryl C. Patrick]

You're absolutely right. No one is crazy simply because their opinions differ from someone else's. They are crazy when the explanation of their opinion makes no sense.

The crime Rice committed and the one OJ committed are not in the same universe. I can make that statement. There is enough documentation in the public arena, including the actual broadcast of the OJ trail, for a person to logically conclude that both committed their crimes.

But what is NOT logical, is to conclude that the punishment, (not the verdict), given to Rice was too light... because the only thing anybody has seen is the video. We did not see any defense testimony like we did in the OJ trial, so our basis for criticizing the judicial system's (light) punishment is not supported.

We have plenty of evidence to conclude that the punishment (and even the verdict) for OJ was too light. We don't have enough evidence to conclude that the punishment for Rice was too light.

Yet many ignore that and continue to pass judgment on the adequacy of Rice's punishment. The degree of punishment was the basis of the chatter for weeks. Its not logical.

Yes, I stand by my original post. Many in the public arena are more concerned about grandstanding for a social cause than they are about being fair to an individual.

Understood, and I get that. However, I referenced the O.J trial only because perception is in the eyes of the beholder.  There was logical evidence presented that cast doubt as to the guilt of O.J. But, most people in America CHOSE not to even consider any of that evidence because they wanted to believe in their own preconceived notions, etc. And in our system, you're innocent until proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt. If you CHOSE to consider ALL of the evidence, and not just the circumstantial evidence presented, most rational people would say there was reasonable doubt, which the jury agreed upon.  So, according to the system, who were the crazy ones? The ones that factored in ALL the evidence like they were supposed to? Or the ones who wanted SO BADLY to believe in their own prejudices and NOT the system? Its all a matter of perception. Or opinion. So, you are free to have and stand by your statement or opinion. Anyone else is free to do the same for theirs. I was just stating that the name calling wasn't particularly necessary. Have a great day and lets root for the Colts to take the AFC South this weekend.  

[oldunclemark]

If a convicted wife beater..ever in cleared play in the NFL....

....its much more of a PR blow to the league than anything that's occurred..

.....Every game..every play will bring back that knockout moment again and again