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Heat's on Welker, too


amfootball

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No I do not think the replacements were up to they veterans' level on almost all positions. The young guys are all significantly worse, especially at DBs. Belichick has better eyes on LBs and they are OK, but you can not compare the current group with the unit of Mike Vrabel and Tedy Bruschi.

 

The team play in a huge mess of AFC east which hands them 5-6 wins automatically (to this standard I think Colts are also blessed to play Titans and Jags twice each and thus very overrated even with a 11-5 record). After making the playoff Pats were lucky to play a Tebow-led Broncos, an overrated Texans, and an inexperienced Colts teams in the past three years. Otherwise Pats could easily be one-and-done if they had to play Ravens and Steelers or this year's Bengals had they survived Chargers.

 

Trying to compare divisions and which division is better and how it effects a team's success can be said for ALL NFL teams.  It all goes in cycles.  For years the NFC East was the beast of the NFL and the NFC West was horrible.   Its reversed now.  I could say if the Colts played in the NFC West or AFC North this season they would have 7 losses this year too.

 

Patriots have OWNED the AFC North since 2001.  It's since 2009 the Ravens gave the Patriots some struggles but earlier this season the Pats blew out the Ravens.  I doubt the Ravens will be the same since Lewis, Reed and Pollard are gone and Suggs is getting older.  Looks like the Steelers are in rebuild mode and that defense lead by Troy Polamalu is aging and is not the same.  Bengals look like the most consistent AFC North team now.

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You're right Talib is 27, I thought he was older.  His birthday is in February so he'll be 28 soon.  He should get a 4 to 5 year deal which will keep him till 32 or 33.

 

Did the Patriots let Danny Woodhead go or did the Chargers offer him more money?  If the Patriots treat Edelman like they did to Woodhead then I think he's gone.  But the difference is both play different positions and Edelman caught 100+ receptions and the Patriots don't want to lose another good slot receiver like they did to Welker.  Plus, the Patriots running game is better with Blount and Ridley.  They better resign Blount!

Pats never made an offer to Woodhead because they had Vareen to take this spot. They have no one (at least that I know of) to replace Endelman who has been more then just a slot WR as he has lined up out wide 51 percent of his snaps this season. I think they have to  get him done. Same with Blount too.

 

Talib may be tough as I think he will have a lot of suitors. Still, I want them to sign him.

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I have said this many times. Without Bill Belichick, NE is zero.

 

Sure, Tom Brady is a great QB but Belichick is the reason the coaches and other 52 players are drafted, trained and conditioned. Heck Belichick is the one who gave Brady a chance in the NFL.

 

Sure, Belichick makes mistakes too ( Haynesworth, Chad Johnson etc ) but i love him coz he is not afraid to take chances.

 

NE is not ready without BB today. They will be a chicken without head.

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I have said this many times. Without Bill Belichick, NE is zero.

 

Sure, Tom Brady is a great QB but Belichick is the reason the coaches and other 52 players are drafted, trained and conditioned. Heck Belichick is the one who gave Brady a chance in the NFL.

 

Sure, Belichick makes mistakes too ( Haynesworth, Chad Johnson etc ) but i love him coz he is not afraid to take chances.

 

NE is not ready without BB today. They will be a chicken without head.

 

Tom Brady could be a pro bowler on any team he plays with.  If Brady was the QB of the Texans this year they would have made the playoffs.

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Tom Brady could be a pro bowler on any team he plays with.  If Brady was the QB of the Texans this year they would have made the playoffs.

I know a lot of Pro bowlers without a SB.

 

You need a "TEAM". Thats where Belichick comes in. I mean if you discount Belichick's importance to Patriots, more power to you.

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I have said this many times. Without Bill Belichick, NE is zero.

 

Sure, Tom Brady is a great QB but Belichick is the reason the coaches and other 52 players are drafted, trained and conditioned. Heck Belichick is the one who gave Brady a chance in the NFL.

 

Sure, Belichick makes mistakes too ( Haynesworth, Chad Johnson etc ) but i love him coz he is not afraid to take chances.

 

NE is not ready without BB today. They will be a chicken without head.

No one discounts Bill but hard not to see his success without Brady as well. Kind of a chicken and the egg thing. He does not get away with losing so much offensive talent this year without Brady not to mention all the comebacks Brady led. For sure they need each other but this year I think the credit is pretty equal between the two.

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I think the old "Patriots way" can easily * most veterans off. At the end for even a little difference Pats do not like to negotiate since they want to show their toughness. Players generally have already compromised a lot to stay with the team but at this kind of moments they'd take the pride and leave.

 

It has nothing to do with "showing their toughness" and everything to do with managing their cap. Welker and his agent vastly over estimated his value on the open market and in actuality what the Patriots had offered him the year before he became a free agent ended up being more than he received from Denver, so he actually lost money by holding out for Free Agency.  This whole idea that the Patriots were cheap or just didn't work with him to spite him is totally false, they offered him a very fair deal, he overestimated his value and then was angry at them for not paying him what he wanted, so he took his ball and went to the Broncos.

 

Looks like they were smart in their decision, because they got 105 receptions out of Edelman (I guessed around 90-100 in preseason) so he basically matched Welker's production for a fraction of the salary, plus he is younger.

 

The Patriots don't make decisions based on emotion like fans do, they evaluate a player and what he will do for the team in the FUTURE, not what they did in the past.  It looks like it worked out for them in the end.  There is a good chance that Denver doesn't even honor the 2nd year of Welker's deal and he may hit Free Agency again.  If the Patriots retain, Edelman, they will not be interested in Welker's services.. the team has moved on.

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It has nothing to do with "showing their toughness" and everything to do with managing their cap. Welker and his agent vastly over estimated his value on the open market and in actuality what the Patriots had offered him the year before he became a free agent ended up being more than he received from Denver, so he actually lost money by holding out for Free Agency.  This whole idea that the Patriots were cheap or just didn't work with him to spite him is totally false, they offered him a very fair deal, he overestimated his value and then was angry at them for not paying him what he wanted, so he took his ball and went to the Broncos.

 

Looks like they were smart in their decision, because they got 105 receptions out of Edelman (I guessed around 90-100 in preseason) so he basically matched Welker's production for a fraction of the salary, plus he is younger.

 

The Patriots don't make decisions based on emotion like fans do, they evaluate a player and what he will do for the team in the FUTURE, not what they did in the past.  It looks like it worked out for them in the end.  There is a good chance that Denver doesn't even honor the 2nd year of Welker's deal and he may hit Free Agency again.  If the Patriots retain, Edelman, they will not be interested in Welker's services.. the team has moved on.

 

Edelman was never planned as the replacement for Welker. It was Amendola at the beginning.

 

I do not think they saved anything by signing Amendola to replace Welker. Amendola is younger but he's never had a healthy season and Pats signed him for 5 yrs with 10M guaranteed. This only showed they did not want to give veterans any edge in the negotiation.

 

Plz remember they did not have a plan for Edelman to replace Welker, and the original plan did not work when Amendola did not show enough reliability, and as expected by everyone outside Pats he went down early in the season. As they had nobody to catch the ball they started to feed Edelman who was the only receiver understanding the system.

 

Nothing here showed they were proactive at the beginning. Had they been smart they'd sign a different type of receiver to work on the outside, instead of leaving two rookies there and signing another slot WR whose skill set overlaps with their own guy but cannot stay healthy ever since he entered the league.

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I think the Patriots should either trade or not resign Amendola and use the space to bring in another TE or another WR.  Pats still haven't found anyone to take the spot of Aaron Hernandez.

 

I would trade Gronk for a 1st round draft pick.  Gronk's contract is back loaded so he's going to make more in the next upcoming years.  Gronk has now had around 9 surgeries.

 

If the Pats can get a draft pick for Gronk I would use that pick on a defensive lineman.

 

 

The team that is under the most pressure is the Broncos.  They went all out to bring in Peyton and Welker.  They broke offensive records in the NFL.  Peyton is most likely the MVP.  They were the favorite to win it all going into this year.  Vegas has them favorites over the Pats.  If the Broncos don't win it all then they fall the furthest.  The expectations were the highest for the Broncos this season.

 

Peyton and Welker are under more pressure than anyone on the Patriots are.

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I think the Patriots should either trade or not resign Amendola and use the space to bring in another TE or another WR.  Pats still haven't found anyone to take the spot of Aaron Hernandez.

 

I would trade Gronk for a 1st round draft pick.  Gronk's contract is back loaded so he's going to make more in the next upcoming years.  Gronk has now had around 9 surgeries.

 

If the Pats can get a draft pick for Gronk I would use that pick on a defensive lineman.

 

 

The team that is under the most pressure is the Broncos.  They went all out to bring in Peyton and Welker.  They broke offensive records in the NFL.  Peyton is most likely the MVP.  They were the favorite to win it all going into this year.  Vegas has them favorites over the Pats.  If the Broncos don't win it all then they fall the furthest.

 

Peyton and Welker are under more pressure than anyone on the Patriots are.

 

Good call on Amendola and Gronk, but it will take a team like the Raiders to make the trade. Everybody knows Amendola cannot stay on the field, and for Gronk if you are trading your most talented receiver off major injuries people are going to question it or the return won't be pleasant (a late round pick maybe?).

 

Regarding the pressure yes it will be on the Broncos, but it won't be even close to last week's pressure when they were questioned by almost all talking heads in this country. After getting the first win it will only be easier.

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Good call on Amendola and Gronk, but it will take a team like the Raiders to make the trade. Everybody knows Amendola cannot stay on the field, and for Gronk if you are trading your most talented receiver off major injuries people are going to question it or the return won't be pleasant (a late round pick maybe?).

 

Regarding the pressure yes it will be on the Broncos, but it won't be even close to last week's pressure when they were questioned by almost all talking heads in this country. After getting the first win it will only be easier.

 

The best way to maximize Gronk's worth or any player's worth and value is to make sure he comes back healthy and play him a few games and then trade him.  Sort of like what the Celtics I believe are going to do with Rajon Rondo when he comes back.

 

I would trade Gronk at this point for a high 2nd round pick too if I couldn't first get a 1st rounder.

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The best way to maximize Gronk's worth or any player's worth and value is to make sure he comes back healthy and play him a few games and then trade him.  Sort of like what the Celtics I believe are going to do with Rajon Rondo when he comes back.

 

I would trade Gronk at this point for a high 2nd round pick too if I couldn't first get a 1st rounder.

 

Then it will take the team gut to make the decision if he is playing well. They will need to have a plan for his replacement and better hope the replacement lives up to the expectation. Not gonna be easy.

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The best way to maximize Gronk's worth or any player's worth and value is to make sure he comes back healthy and play him a few games and then trade him.  Sort of like what the Celtics I believe are going to do with Rajon Rondo when he comes back.

 

I would trade Gronk at this point for a high 2nd round pick too if I couldn't first get a 1st rounder.

I don't think you trade Gronk as he is the best TE in the game when healthy. But I think the Pats have to play him like a more traditional TE and stop all the seam routes so he is able to protect himself. My biggest issue with this team for years has been the shift in focus off of the big time WR ala Moss to the TEs. At this point, Gronk needs to have the legit WR so he can work the underneath. I do think they did address that with Dobson and Thomkins and Boyce but not sure what to expect out of any of them next year. Dobson probably has the biggest upside but I think the Pats need to make a FA move or trade for a legit guy on the outside.

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Good call on Amendola and Gronk, but it will take a team like the Raiders to make the trade. Everybody knows Amendola cannot stay on the field, and for Gronk if you are trading your most talented receiver off major injuries people are going to question it or the return won't be pleasant (a late round pick maybe?).

 

Regarding the pressure yes it will be on the Broncos, but it won't be even close to last week's pressure when they were questioned by almost all talking heads in this country. After getting the first win it will only be easier.

I would agree with you on the bolded it they were not playing the Pats. I think the fact that Manning is playing an undermanned Pats team adds more pressure then last week. But that being said, Denver won't lose because of nerves or pressure, if they do lose it will be because the Pats outplayed them unless Manning throws some picks which I am not anticipating. In fact, I think it will be a clean game unlike the TO fest in Nov in Foxboro.

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I would agree with you on the bolded it they were not playing the Pats. I think the fact that Manning is playing an undermanned Pats team adds more pressure then last week. But that being said, Denver won't lose because of nerves or pressure, if they do lose it will be because the Pats outplayed them unless Manning throws some picks which I am not anticipating. In fact, I think it will be a clean game unlike the TO fest in Nov in Foxboro.

 

Yes I also anticipate the game to be "normal" this time.

 

I cannot agree on the pressure part, since can you imagine the pressure if Manning is playing a "red hot" Andrew Luck who Colts brought in to replace him and the guy were supposed to have beaten Brady in Pats house to get there in his second year as a pro, which Manning cannot do until now his 16th season?

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Yes I also anticipate the game to be "normal" this time.

 

I cannot agree on the pressure part, since can you imagine the pressure if Manning is playing a "red hot" Andrew Luck who Colts brought in to replace him and the guy were supposed to have beaten Brady in Pats house to get there in his second year as a pro, which Manning cannot do until now his 16th season?

Ah, I see what you are saying. Perhaps more pressure with Luck in that regard had Luck beaten Brady in NE for the playoffs which Manning never did. But I think if you asked Manning, he would rather have faced the Colts for this game then the Pats just in terms of match ups.

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Ah, I see what you are saying. Perhaps more pressure with Luck in that regard had Luck beaten Brady in NE for the playoffs which Manning never did. But I think if you asked Manning, he would rather have faced the Colts for this game then the Pats just in terms of match ups.

 

Technically yes. But emotionally he is more comfortable playing Pats than Colts I bet.

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Technically yes. But emotionally he is more comfortable playing Pats than Colts I bet.

Yes, you are probably right but I am not sure Indy would have bothered him that much at home in Denver. But for sure more emotional then Pats which is like old hat at this point I am sure.

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Heat is on every player not to make any turnovers.

 

Denver had 8 dropped passes at San Diego game. Peyton was 25/36 after the dropped passes.

 

2 turnovers ( Fumble and INT ).

 

Decker gaffed an onside kick which essentially is a turnover.

 

If they do the same against Patriots, it will be a long day.

 

Patriots had one mistake the entire game ( the safety play ).

 

I think they will learn from the game and going to take care of it. Good news is Moreno and Ball are on fire. Offensive Line is on fire.

 

Lof of people questioned Denver against Chargers and i see the same against Patriots. They will be fired up.

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Heat is on every player not to make any turnovers.

 

Denver had 8 dropped passes at San Diego game. Peyton was 25/36 after the dropped passes.

 

2 turnovers ( Fumble and INT ).

 

Decker gaffed an onside kick which essentially is a turnover.

 

If they do the same against Patriots, it will be a long day.

 

Patriots had one mistake the entire game ( the safety play ).

 

I think they will learn from the game and going to take care of it. Good news is Moreno and Ball are on fire. Offensive Line is on fire.

 

Lof of people questioned Denver against Chargers and i see the same against Patriots. They will be fired up.

 

Yeah they missed a lot of opportunities. And Decker had another stumble on the way for a punt return TD, which eventually caused a fruitless driving ending up with Manning's INT to him. I was thinking they should run on 2nd and 3rd downs, and at least get a FG if they could not punch it in. In playoffs all pts count.

 

The amazing thing about Bill Belichick is he almost never let opportunities slip away. They do not shoot in their own feet while Denver do at least a couple of dumb things every week.

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I don't think you trade Gronk as he is the best TE in the game when healthy. But I think the Pats have to play him like a more traditional TE and stop all the seam routes so he is able to protect himself. My biggest issue with this team for years has been the shift in focus off of the big time WR ala Moss to the TEs. At this point, Gronk needs to have the legit WR so he can work the underneath. I do think they did address that with Dobson and Thomkins and Boyce but not sure what to expect out of any of them next year. Dobson probably has the biggest upside but I think the Pats need to make a FA move or trade for a legit guy on the outside.

 

 

"best TE in the game when healthy"

 

He's not effective when injured obviously and it's a waste of money.  If the Pats make it back to the Super Bowl this will be the 2nd time they did it without Gronk being a full contributor or contributor at all.  Pats proved they can make the playoffs without Gronk.  At this point Gronk is just a nice compliment to the offense.  Blount is more important to the Patriots now than Gronk is.  Resigning Blount should be at a higher priority than keeping Gronk in the off season.  A running game is more important than having a injury prone TE.  Pats, 49ers, Seahawks proved that a running game matters.  This running game the Pats have is making the Patriots more dangerous and more dimensional.  It takes the load off Brady's shoulders like when they won their 3 Super Bowls.

 

I agree that the Pats should use Gronk a little differently.  Gronk needs to be kept around the line of scrimmage to block and then to catch some short 5 to 10 yard passes.  It's best to use Gronk in the red zone.  They need to stop sending Gronk full speed down the field where he seems to get hurt the most.

 

I'm willing to give another year or two to Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce.  Heck, they haven't had enough time to play since they been injured.  Having those 3 guys on the field means a lot even if they aren't super stars.  They can be used as decoys.  We saw what one of them did against the Saints in the end.  They were effective against the Steelers too.

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Heat is on every player not to make any turnovers.

 

Denver had 8 dropped passes at San Diego game. Peyton was 25/36 after the dropped passes.

 

2 turnovers ( Fumble and INT ).

 

Decker gaffed an onside kick which essentially is a turnover.

 

If they do the same against Patriots, it will be a long day.

 

Patriots had one mistake the entire game ( the safety play ).

 

I think they will learn from the game and going to take care of it. Good news is Moreno and Ball are on fire. Offensive Line is on fire.

 

Lof of people questioned Denver against Chargers and i see the same against Patriots. They will be fired up.

 

And the Chargers came to life when Chris Harris left the game.  No Harris in this game.

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The Patriots as of now are the more balanced team than the Broncos are.  Broncos are just a passing team.  Their running game isn't that good.  Their defense can't stop the run or pass consistently.  Is Harris left the game in the 1st quarter against the Chargers then the Chargers I think could have won the game.

 

Patriots have a versatile power running game, a passing game and a pretty good defense that is getting better.  I believe the Patriots defense is ranked #1 in turnovers and is the highest scoring defensive team.

 

The Patriots defense now is more designed and setup to stop the pass now that Collins is in at LB who had an excellent game against the Colts with an INT.  The guy plays like a strong safety. Hightower had an INT too I believe against the Colts.

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And the Chargers came to life when Chris Harris left the game.  No Harris in this game.

 

But no Keenan Allen this time as well. Don't see which Pats receiver can cause that much trouble.

 

Same as you I think the running games of these teams will have larger impact on the outcome of the game.

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But no Keenan Allen this time as well. Don't see which Pats receiver can cause that much trouble.

 

Same as you I think the running games of these teams will have larger impact on the outcome of the game.

 

"But no Keenan Allen this time as well. Don't see which Pats receiver can cause that much trouble."

 

 

 

If Dobson and Thompkins play then it's bad for the Broncos.  Patriots' D as of now is a better D than the Broncos' D.

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"best TE in the game when healthy"

 

He's not effective when injured obviously and it's a waste of money.  If the Pats make it back to the Super Bowl this will be the 2nd time they did it without Gronk being a full contributor or contributor at all.  Pats proved they can make the playoffs without Gronk.  At this point Gronk is just a nice compliment to the offense.  Blount is more important to the Patriots now than Gronk is.  Resigning Blount should be at a higher priority than keeping Gronk in the off season.  A running game is more important than having a injury prone TE.  Pats, 49ers, Seahawks proved that a running game matters.  This running game the Pats have is making the Patriots more dangerous and more dimensional.  It takes the load off Brady's shoulders like when they won their 3 Super Bowls.

 

I agree that the Pats should use Gronk a little differently.  Gronk needs to be kept around the line of scrimmage to block and then to catch some short 5 to 10 yard passes.  It's best to use Gronk in the red zone.  They need to stop sending Gronk full speed down the field where he seems to get hurt the most.

 

I'm willing to give another year or two to Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce.  Heck, they haven't had enough time to play since they been injured.  Having those 3 guys on the field means a lot even if they aren't super stars.  They can be used as decoys.  We saw what one of them did against the Saints in the end.  They were effective against the Steelers too.

I am not sure I follow. Gronk is under contract so to release him would be a huge cap hit. I don't foresee Blount being difficult to sign as his numbers were modest this year. No reason you can't have Gronk and Blount too. The key guy is Endleman as they are already paying Amedola 6 mil a year and I think Endleman will command some money after leading the lead in receptions. Still, the Pats have the money to sign him long-term. It depends what shape they see their team taking. I agree about the rooks too. All of them are on rookie deals and will be back so worries on that position. They do need another pass catching TE though with AH gone and Gronk rehabbing.

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I am not sure I follow. Gronk is under contract so to release him would be a huge cap hit. I don't foresee Blount being difficult to sign as his numbers were modest this year. No reason you can't have Gronk and Blount too. The key guy is Endleman as they are already paying Amedola 6 mil a year and I think Endleman will command some money after leading the lead in receptions. Still, the Pats have the money to sign him long-term. It depends what shape they see their team taking. I agree about the rooks too. All of them are on rookie deals and will be back so worries on that position. They do need another pass catching TE though with AH gone and Gronk rehabbing.

 

Do the Pats still take a cap hit if they trade Gronk?  I never said to release him.  I'd like to see if they can trade him for a high draft pick.

 

Blount had such a MASSIVE last month that his stock climbed.  Teams also look to sign other team's players away from them to try to take them away from their rivals to weaken them.

 

Why do you keep calling him "Endleman" ?

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Do the Pats still take a cap hit if they trade Gronk?  I never said to release him.  I'd like to see if they can trade him for a high draft pick.

 

Blount had such a MASSIVE last month that his stock climbed.  Teams also look to sign other team's players away from them to try to take them away from their rivals to weaken them.

 

Why do you keep calling him "Endleman" ?

Not sure what they would get for Gronk this off-season given he will be rehabbing and teams would figure he is damaged goods as why else would the Pats move on from him? I think they are going to stay with him until 2015 when all of his big bonuses will kick in. If he is still injury prone at the point then I think they look to rework his contract or trade.

 

Much may depend on how Blount performs Sunday and in the SB if the Pats make it. If he continues to be the main reason why they are winning then I agree that his stock will rise and may make other teams offer him big money.

 

lol on Endleman. It is Edleman. Not sure why I keep typing that extra "n." It seems to me like his name should be spelled that way for some reason.

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"But no Keenan Allen this time as well. Don't see which Pats receiver can cause that much trouble."

 

 

 

If Dobson and Thompkins play then it's bad for the Broncos.  Patriots' D as of now is a better D than the Broncos' D.

 

OK but I only know Keenan Allen is a candidate for rookie of year, along with Eddy lacy, Gio Bernard, Alonso and Patterson, while neither Thompkins or Dobson is on the list. And Thompkins had one catch last week?

 

But you are right they are still capable of making some damage if you completely ignore them.

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Not sure what they would get for Gronk this off-season given he will be rehabbing and teams would figure he is damaged goods as why else would the Pats move on from him? I think they are going to stay with him until 2015 when all of his big bonuses will kick in. If he is still injury prone at the point then I think they look to rework his contract or trade.

 

Much may depend on how Blount performs Sunday and in the SB if the Pats make it. If he continues to be the main reason why they are winning then I agree that his stock will rise and may make other teams offer him big money.

 

lol on Endleman. It is Edleman. Not sure why I keep typing that extra "n." It seems to me like his name should be spelled that way for some reason.

 

Still wrong. It is "Julian Edelman".

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Maybe I should just call him the little tough guy. ;)

 

Considering this little guy almost single-handedly carried your passing game when your Gronk, Amendola, and Vereen were all on the slideline and the two rookie WRs were running everywhere and shouted at by Brady, you need to get his name right :)

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Only thing Chandler Jones does and will do is pass rush and try to stop the run.  You might be confusing Jones with Jamie Collins?  Linebacker Collins will be the one falling back playing more pass coverage like he did against the Colts where he had an excellent game!

 

In some ways with Brandon Spykes out and Jamie Collins in that makes the Patriots pass defense better and not as many mismatches now.  But "IF" the Patriots make it to the super bowl they will need Spykes more since the Seahawks and 49ers are more a running smash mouth team.

I apologize...your right. I was rewatching the first game and I had seen Jones covering Tamme on a play and assumed he was doing it all game...probably just a wierd play where they dropped him in coverage or something.

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