Dwight Freeney, John Abraham to meet Broncos; Dumervil looks elsewhere , nothing definitive

[bayone]

On Thursday, the Broncos will visit with Dwight Freeney and John Abraham, according to an NFL source.
 

Dumervil was not overwhelmed with the Broncos' latest offer, according to two NFL sources. He is expected to line up visits with teams in the next 48 hours.

Read more:Dwight Freeney, John Abraham to meet Broncos; Dumervil looks elsewhere - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22832924/dwight-freeney-john-abraham-meet-broncos-dumervil-looks#ixzz2O7DzfNA1
 

[chad72]

John Abraham might be the next retirement candidate along with Champ Bailey. They might be better off going with a combo of those, Abraham for the run, Freeney for the pass.

 

Win one for Champ, I can see it from a distance

[DILLIGAFER]

Adios Chief.. Hello Freeney!

[IcEWoLF]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152320/article/elvis-dumervil-unimpressed-by-denver-broncos-offer

 

Looks like Dumervil is on his way outta Denver.

 

If Dumervil leaves then Von Miller numbers will drop.

 

It would be funny if Dumervil joins the Texans...

[southwest1]

Adios Chief.. Hello Freeney!

Preach Broncolt! Preach! No contest. I want #93 the human tornado in Denver now! "We're not in Kansas anymore Toto." No, Dorothy from "The Wizard Of Oz" we are not. 

 

http://youtu.be/5YLW2MeZCks

 

 

[bayone]

John Abraham might be the next retirement candidate along with Champ Bailey. They might be better off going with a combo of those, Abraham for the run, Freeney for the pass.

 

Win one for Champ, I can see it from a distance

 

good idea if can afford, but if no doom they will take 1 and draft 1, am supervised OSI not visisting 

 

also if take both 1 for run & 1 for pass the issue arises if cant sub do to pace of offense one of these older guys wont fit and will tire out

 

Not having doom forces the issue of a DE in r the draft , changes draft philosyphy, and possible priority list in highest order

 

RB is needed too

 

Center position is weak depth wise, 1 rookie coming of IR never got to play and Denver never loved Walton also mir after bad ankle brake, Knoppen still a free agent

 

BTW Dooms old agent Hired a lawyer just encase its needed, sorry lost link

[bayone]

actualy  Freeney may already have visited wed night, Abe will  on thursday

 

from last night

 

Adam Schefter        

✔ @AdamSchefter

Colts free-agent DE Dwight Freeney scheduled to visit Denver tonight, per@Edwerderespn. Broncos also plan to host visit with John Abraham.

7:47 PM - 20 Mar 13

 

Adam Schefter        ✔ @AdamSchefter

John Abraham is scheduled to visit the Broncos on Thursday.

7:53 PM - 20 Mar 13

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/3/20/4128782/report-dwight-freeney-and-john-abraham-visiting-the-broncos

[bayone]

I read it as a lable to u tube with Dorothy saying the wizard of Oz Tweeter instead of twister and i dont even tweet

 

 

Preach Broncolt! Preach! No contest. I want #93 the human tornado in Denver now! "We're not in Kansas anymore Toto." No, Dorothy from "The Wizard Of Oz" we are not. 

 

http://youtu.be/5YLW2MeZCks

[amfootball]

Freeney would help but he is not the player he used to be. Doom is in his prime. Hopefully he does not land in Texan. Pats are also interested and Ravens.

[bayone]

 

 

Freeney would help but he is not the player he used to be. Doom is in his prime. Hopefully he does not land in Texan. Pats are also interested and Ravens.

 I read in 1 post comment freeney better for 4-3 rush, but abs for run support, doom wsnt great iun run support  but better than feeney who over persues and abe had more sacks than freeney, at this point guess its they feel is best fit

 

If teams concentrate on Von on passiong downs may free the DE they get up & make it easier for him to sack, just an hypothesis

======================================================

 

Denver reportedly has an offer out to Dumervil, who became a free agent last week after the now infamous fax machine fiasco. Denver may be trying to put pressure on Dumervil, who also has interest from Baltimore and Pittsburgh, to make up his mind.

The Denver Post reports Dumervil is not thrilled with Denver’s offer and he will make some visits. The risk is that the other offers may not be as large as Denver’s.

Dumervil is a better player than Freeney, 33, and Abraham, 35, at this point. Abraham had a better year than Freeney last season. Regardless Denver is exploring other options. Unless Dumervil and the Broncos come back together, a new pass-rusher will be in Denver.

 

((((    Personally I am surprised not looking at Osi too , i would think check out all options', admittingly i am not an expert here on him  ))))

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/56398/broncos-taking-steps-away-from-dumervil&ex_cid=MyESPNToday_Team

[amfootball]

 I read in 1 post comment freeney better for 4-3 rush, but abs for run support, doom wsnt great iun run support  but better than feeney who over persues and abe had more sacks than freeney, at this point guess its they feel is best fit

 

If teams concentrate on Von on passiong downs may free the DE they get up & make it easier for him to sack, just an hypothesis

======================================================

 

Denver reportedly has an offer out to Dumervil, who became a free agent last week after the now infamous fax machine fiasco. Denver may be trying to put pressure on Dumervil, who also has interest from Baltimore and Pittsburgh, to make up his mind.

The Denver Post reports Dumervil is not thrilled with Denver’s offer and he will make some visits. The risk is that the other offers may not be as large as Denver’s.

Dumervil is a better player than Freeney, 33, and Abraham, 35, at this point. Abraham had a better year than Freeney last season. Regardless Denver is exploring other options. Unless Dumervil and the Broncos come back together, a new pass-rusher will be in Denver.

 

((((    Personally I am surprised not looking at Osi too , i would think check out all options', admittingly i am not an expert here on him  ))))

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/56398/broncos-taking-steps-away-from-dumervil&ex_cid=MyESPNToday_Team

I think Doom feels like Welker at this point. He will most likely go somewhere for less as long as it is not substantially less.

 

I think Freeney is an adequate substitue just not for long given his age...

[bayone]

I think Doom feels like Welker at this point. He will most likely go somewhere for less as long as it is not substantially less.

 

I think Freeney is an adequate substitue just not for long given his age...

 

he nor abe are long term solutions , stop gap measures also meant to help teach a new draftee, Freeney oner pursues so runners like charles in his division can get buy him r too easily

 

as i previously noted

 

 

Not having doom forces the issue of a DE in  the draft , changes draft philosyphy, and   priority list in highest order

 

RB is needed too

 

Center position is weak depth wise, 1 rookie coming of IR never got to play and Denver never loved Walton also mir after bad ankle brake, Knoppen still a free agent

[southwest1]

Freeney would help but he is not the player he used to be. Doom is in his prime. Hopefully he does not land in Texan. Pats are also interested and Ravens.

Yes, Freeney is a little older & not a young rookie anymore, but he doesn't have a history of extensive injury prone physical issues & if you limit his reps in practice & incorporate rotation of him on game day. He will be just fine & drop the sack hammer on QBs just like always. Youth is overrated; But knowledge, experience, & speed are always lethal opposition drive killers in my opinion. I know precisely what I am getting with #93=results every single down. 

[bayone]

Both Freeney and Abraham, though, are speed rushers who are leaving teams that played indoors on an artificial surface. The Broncos play outside and on grass at Sports Authority Field at Mile High.

 

Before the Ravens entered negotiations with Dumervil, the Broncos had submitted a new three-year offer Monday night. Dumervil's camp, though, was not happy with the discounted salary in the second year of the Broncos' proposal. If the Broncos and Dumervil finally part ways, Denver is expected to sign Freeney or Abraham.

 

 

the Baltimore Ravens made a strong push for Elvis Dumervil.

Perhaps this dragged-out Dumervil pay-cut saga is nearing its end.

 

The Ravens have delivered a contract offer to Dumervil, according to two NFL sources. However, the sources say the Broncos have offered slightly more money in the early portion of the deal.

 

The Broncos' money has tightened because of a $4.89 million dead-money, salary cap hit they absorbed while releasing Dumervil last week, so re-signing the defensive end likely would mean releasing a player or two off their roster.

 

The Miami Dolphins and Tennessee Titans are talking with Dumervil's agent, Tom Condon, but have not made formal offers, according to the two sources.

 

Read more:Elvis Dumervil mulls Ravens' offer; Freeney, Abraham visit Broncos - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22843423/elvis-dumervil-mulls-ravens-offer-freeney-abraham-visit#ixzz2OG8If0Pp

 

Maybe the Broncos could even get Urlacher and Freeney for roughly the price of Dumervil. Everybody loves a bargain.

 

Urlacher Would at least bring the mean, u still dont want him mad at u

Read more:Mark Kiszla: Brian Urlacher could turn Broncos into mean machine - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_22845127/mark-kiszla-brian-urlacher-could-turn-broncos-into#ixzz2OGAAi2QK
 

 

Tom Condon, the agent for the NFL stars, represents three of the four free-agent pass-rushing defensive ends who are currently in play.

 

It seems that of the Broncos, Ravens and Falcons, only the Broncos have interest in Freeney as a backup plan.

 

A home run for Condon, then, would be to sign Dumervil with the Ravens, Freeney with the Broncos and Umenyiora with the Falcons. Condon, of course, has always said it’s about clients’ interests not his.

 

And he has told the Broncos the problem with their latest three-year proposal to Dumervil is year two. He has asked them to tweak it but as of Wednesday night the Broncos had not budged.

 

 http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/03/21/tom-condon-factor-in-elvis-dumervil-saga-3-horses-in-4-horse-pass-rush-race/18967/

Edited March 23, 2013 by Nadine
excessive bold, color, and font highlighting

[southwest1]

Both Freeney and Abraham, though, are speed rushers who are leaving teams that played indoors on an artificial surface. The Broncos play outside and on grass at Sports Authority Field at Mile High.

 

Before the Ravens entered negotiations with Dumervil, the Broncos had submitted a new three-year offer Monday night. Dumervil's camp, though, was not happy with the discounted salary in the second year of the Broncos' proposal. If the Broncos and Dumervil finally part ways, Denver is expected to sign Freeney or Abraham.

 

 

the Baltimore Ravens made a strong push for Elvis Dumervil.

Perhaps this dragged-out Dumervil pay-cut saga is nearing its end.

 

The Ravens have delivered a contract offer to Dumervil, according to two NFL sources. However, the sources say the Broncos have offered slightly more money in the early portion of the deal.

 

The Broncos' money has tightened because of a $4.89 million dead-money, salary cap hit they absorbed while releasing Dumervil last week, so re-signing the defensive end likely would mean releasing a player or two off their roster.

 

The Miami Dolphins and Tennessee Titans are talking with Dumervil's agent, Tom Condon, but have not made formal offers, according to the two sources.

 

Read more:Elvis Dumervil mulls Ravens' offer; Freeney, Abraham visit Broncos - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpos...t#ixzz2OG8If0Pp

 

Maybe the Broncos could even get Urlacher and Freeney for roughly the price of Dumervil. Everybody loves a bargain.

 

Urlacher Would at least bring the mean, u still dont want him mad at u

Read more:Mark Kiszla: Brian Urlacher could turn Broncos into mean machine - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpos...o#ixzz2OGAAi2QK

 

 

Tom Condon, the agent for the NFL stars, represents three of the four free-agent pass-rushing defensive ends who are currently in play.

 

It seems that of the Broncos, Ravens and Falcons, only the Broncos have interest in Freeney as a backup plan.

 

A home run for Condon, then, would be to sign Dumervil with the Ravens, Freeney with the Broncos and Umenyiora with the Falcons. Condon, of course, has always said it’s about clients’ interests not his.

 

And he has told the Broncos the problem with their latest three-year proposal to Dumervil is year two. He has asked them to tweak it but as of Wednesday night the Broncos had not budged.

 

 http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/03/21/tom-condon-factor-in-elvis-dumervil-saga-3-horses-in-4-horse-pass-rush-race/18967//tom-condon-factor-in-elvis-dumervil-saga-3-horses-in-4-horse-pass-rush-race/18967/

Why is Dwight Freeney getting only moderate to luke warm interest among owners, GMs, & front office executive personnel in the league? I just don't get it...    He's a premier pass rusher who is healthy with experience. This makes no sense at all to me. I'd grab him in an instant without hesitation if I had the cap space to do so personally. 

[bayone]

Many basing him on last years work when he played in 3-4 and fell off

 

Abraham is also better at run stopping, Freeney over pursues to much many times

 

Finally Osi best / younger , though can be outspoken  but costs more

 

Still I would consider him and his veteran presenmce to teach a draftee

 

Condon has conflict of interest, now he makes a ton off Peyton, So has Peyton said take my friend Freeney and tell doom go elshere  , --- doubt that has been said but Peyton would like freeney,

 

give doom a touch more that 2nd year & it gives u a solid d, great free agency aquisitions, and MOST IMPORTANT more flexibility in draft

 

Plus if in Win Now Mode, then a draftee may take a while to develop, u never know even if first rounder, finally u need a good RB too & some other needs so why make drafting Dooms replacement a top priority

 

Anyway no Dr too day but must go to accountant soon , mine & moms got complicated highly this year with all her bills I can deduct from medical stuff and many other errands , so maybe when i get back something would have g happened, dont waant doom to be a Raven, that would bother me, shouldnt but does

 

God Bless my mother, i never knew but from all the receipts I think she donated money to every worthy organization  there is, some keep writing now , as I do all bills, where are u , u have been a sponsor since 1970, etc etc, Well some are ok but not so many when u have such bills yoursellf

 

Why is Dwight Freeney getting only moderate to luke warm interest among owners, GMs, & front office executive personnel in the league? I just don't get it...    He's a premier pass rusher who is healthy with experience. This makes no sense at all to me. I'd grab him in an instant without hesitation if I had the cap space to do so personally. 

[lollygagger8]

I hope the pick up Freeney so when we meet the Broncos in the playoffs, Ballard can just run left and get 200 yards rushing.

[bayone]

I hope the pick up Freeney so when we meet the Broncos in the playoffs, Ballard can just run left and get 200 yards rushing.

 

as I wrote

 

Abraham is also better at run stopping, Freeney over pursues to much many times

 

 

I can just see Charles of KC twice a year running wild, Peyton will feel like old times

[House]

Why is Dwight Freeney getting only moderate to luke warm interest among owners, GMs, & front office executive personnel in the league? I just don't get it... He's a premier pass rusher who is healthy with experience. This makes no sense at all to me. I'd grab him in an instant without hesitation if I had the cap space to do so personally.

I think teams around the league saw the writhing on the wall these past few years with Dwight.

My other guess would be that he, and his agent, still think he should be payed big bucks and I can't see anyone shelling out much at all for Freeney.

[amfootball]

Yes, Freeney is a little older & not a young rookie anymore, but he doesn't have a history of extensive injury prone physical issues & if you limit his reps in practice & incorporate rotation of him on game day. He will be just fine & drop the sack hammer on QBs just like always. Youth is overrated; But knowledge, experience, & speed are always lethal opposition drive killers in my opinion. I know precisely what I am getting with #93=results every single down. 

I have to ask you given your intense passion for Welker remaining a Patriot, where is your outrage over the Colts not offering Freeney a deal? I mean shouldn't he of all defensive players that played for them retire a Colt?

[bayone]

I have to ask you given your intense passion for Welker remaining a Patriot, where is your outrage over the Colts not offering Freeney a deal? I mean shouldn't he of all defensive players that played for them retire a Colt?

 

 

He should retire a Colt yes, he just isnt a 3-4 LB, if he doesnt find a team and decides to retire , then his only team would be the colts, to officially retire him as a colt guess then can do like did with saturday, right now freeney wants to play and needs a 4-3 team defense

[Fx Stryker]

Freeney does provide concern in the running.

 

The Broncos can pick up Urlacher, and that would solve it right away. They have the two young MLBs, and bringing in Urlacher can provide help and mentoring. 

[southwest1]

I have to ask you given your intense passion for Welker remaining a Patriot, where is your outrage over the Colts not offering Freeney a deal? I mean shouldn't he of all defensive players that played for them retire a Colt?

A fair question amfootball. Peyton Manning was the enormous salary on the offensive side & Dwight Freeney was the enormous salary on the defensive side. With a new staff coming in to Lucas Oil Stadium & a new approach & mindset, the Colts couldn't afford new contracts for both men or either man actually. Consider them both casualities of the salary cap & a desire to put that money elsewhere. Besides, I knew it was coming in both cases. A dual pick slip that is. But, I am surprised that it is taking Freeney so long to find work.  

[bayone]

Freeney does provide concern in the running.

 

The Broncos can pick up Urlacher, and that would solve it right away. They have the two young MLBs, and bringing in Urlacher can provide help and mentoring. 

 

 

i said simlarv somewhere, just get him mad and he'll step up and bring the mean tough atmosphree a team needs 

 

, at MID he Vs Nate Irving or steve Johnson, they are plan c & d yet were elevated too compete for starting job as of now at mid

[amfootball]

A fair question amfootball. Peyton Manning was the enormous salary on the offensive side & Dwight Freeney was the enormous salary on the defensive side. With a new staff coming in to Lucas Oil Stadium & a new approach & mindset, the Colts couldn't afford new contracts for both men or either man actually. Consider them both casualities of the salary cap & a desire to put that money elsewhere. Besides, I knew it was coming in both cases. A dual pick slip that is. But, I am surprised that it is taking Freeney so long to find work.  

Manning is gone. You have Luck on the rookie and deal and a bunch of other rookies. You could more than afford to sign Freeney right now. He would not command a big contract because of his age, the market, and flat cap.

 

But to be honest, I am somewhat perplexed by your lack of outrage over him not retiring as a Colt and equally stunned by your ability to see the financial issues related to Freeney that would make the Colts want to cut bait but not with Welker. You feel the Pats should have retained Welker no matter what even when I brought up the above market contract they offered him last year at 2 years for 16m which he turned down and the $9.5 he banked on the franchise tag. Then when the Pats offered him another fair market contract this year he bolted for 2mil more. You can't have it both ways.

 

I mean the Colts didn't even offer him a deal at all unlike the Pats with Welker. Again, where is the outrage? Freeney was basically kicked to the curb.

[chad72]

I mean the Colts didn't even offer him a deal at all unlike the Pats with Welker. Again, where is the outrage? Freeney was basically kicked to the curb.

 

The issue here was Freeney was paid a boat load of money while he was with the Colts in the last year (about $19 mil., Welker's was nothing compared to this), and did not produce anywhere close to a quarter of what Welker produced for their respective positions. So, the fact that the 3-4 glove didn't fit him compounded by his salary made him a logical cut. I personally felt that Irsay was a big part of Freeney not being traded or cut last year, much like his generosity towards Peyton being paid $23 mil. plus for sitting on his butt in 2011, that was Irsay's way of thanking them for what they had done for the Colts all these years.  That last year salary of $19 mil. would probably be what Freeney would be making, tops over the next 3-4 years, even with a 4-3 team, that is why it never made sense to pay him that much and not cut him unless it was Irsay.

 

Thus, I think that not offering him a contract is not that big a deal because Freeney has gotten paid what he would have been for the 3-4, if we truly offered him 3-4 OLB money, for the next 3 years at least. The Colts want Freeney to test the market and get what he can with a 4-3 team and not make him feel lowballed because that is what he would feel, if they offered him anything at all for his role as a 3-4 OLB. They normally do that with players they cut.

[amfootball]

The issue here was Freeney was paid a boat load of money while he was with the Colts in the last year (about $19 mil., Welker's was nothing compared to this), and did not produce anywhere close to a quarter of what Welker produced for their respective positions. So, the fact that the 3-4 glove didn't fit him compounded by his salary made him a logical cut. I personally felt that Irsay was a big part of Freeney not being traded or cut last year, much like his generosity towards Peyton being paid $23 mil. plus for sitting on his butt in 2011, that was Irsay's way of thanking them for what they had done for the Colts all these years.  That last year salary of $19 mil. would probably be what Freeney would be making, tops over the next 3-4 years, even with a 4-3 team, that is why it never made sense to pay him that much and not cut him unless it was Irsay.

 

Thus, I think that not offering him a contract is not that big a deal because Freeney has gotten paid what he would have been for the 3-4, if we truly offered him 3-4 OLB money, for the next 3 years at least. The Colts want Freeney to test the market and get what he can with a 4-3 team and not make him feel lowballed because that is what he would feel, if they offered him anything at all for his role as a 3-4 OLB. They normally do that with players they cut.

I am not suggesting the Freeney and Welker are necessarrily an apples to apples comparison, although I could argue Welker was also paid a boat load last year given he was franchised, but my argument was more about a team's decision to release or resign players. Southwest was pretty adamant that the Pats should have not only resigned Welker but that he should have retired a Patriot. There were many financial implications to resigning him just like Freeney, with the most important one being he turned down an above market value contract last year and another fair market value contract this year to go to Denver for 2 mil more. While I certainly understand's southwest's passion wanting to see Welker retire a Patriot, he does not to seem to have nearly the same passion for Freeney who was the cornerstone of the Colts D for years and helped them win a SB unlike Welker. Just wondering why he is not more outraged.

[bayone]

I  stand by what I said earlier

 

He should retire a Colt yes, he just isnt a 3-4 LB, if he doesnt find a team and decides to retire , then his only team would be the colts, to officially retire him as a colt guess then can do like did with Saturday, right now freeney wants to play and needs a 4-3 team defense,

-------------------------------

to add

 

Freeney Knows this well, He also almost refused last year to play and was quite VOCAL saying i have never not hand my hand on the ground and dont see any reasoin why I should have to now play from a stand up position , this went on quite awhile and he's lucky he wasnt cut last year & he didnt want to give up that money so he played & Irsay was gracious enough to keep him

 

But I am sure he & irsay with an entire new staff and new Defensive philosophy didint in some way discuss this all  , the cut was expected by all , no contract was expected, last year he was given a thankyou by not being cut for all the years of great work

 

Its totally different than welker who still  fits the system

 

Freeney new this was coming

 

 

 

A fair question amfootball. Peyton Manning was the enormous salary on the offensive side & Dwight Freeney was the enormous salary on the defensive side. With a new staff coming in to Lucas Oil Stadium & a new approach & mindset, the Colts couldn't afford new contracts for both men or either man actually. Consider them both casualities of the salary cap & a desire to put that money elsewhere. Besides, I knew it was coming in both cases. A dual pick slip that is. But, I am surprised that it is taking Freeney so long to find work.  

 

 

Manning is gone. You have Luck on the rookie and deal and a bunch of other rookies. You could more than afford to sign Freeney right now. He would not command a big contract because of his age, the market, and flat cap.

 

But to be honest, I am somewhat perplexed by your lack of outrage over him not retiring as a Colt and equally stunned by your ability to see the financial issues related to Freeney that would make the Colts want to cut bait but not with Welker. You feel the Pats should have retained Welker no matter what even when I brought up the above market contract they offered him last year at 2 years for 16m which he turned down and the $9.5 he banked on the franchise tag. Then when the Pats offered him another fair market contract this year he bolted for 2mil more. You can't have it both ways.

 

I mean the Colts didn't even offer him a deal at all unlike the Pats with Welker. Again, where is the outrage? Freeney was basically kicked to the curb.

 

 

The issue here was Freeney was paid a boat load of money while he was with the Colts in the last year (about $19 mil., Welker's was nothing compared to this), and did not produce anywhere close to a quarter of what Welker produced for their respective positions. So, the fact that the 3-4 glove didn't fit him compounded by his salary made him a logical cut. I personally felt that Irsay was a big part of Freeney not being traded or cut last year, much like his generosity towards Peyton being paid $23 mil. plus for sitting on his butt in 2011, that was Irsay's way of thanking them for what they had done for the Colts all these years.  That last year salary of $19 mil. would probably be what Freeney would be making, tops over the next 3-4 years, even with a 4-3 team, that is why it never made sense to pay him that much and not cut him unless it was Irsay.

 

Thus, I think that not offering him a contract is not that big a deal because Freeney has gotten paid what he would have been for the 3-4, if we truly offered him 3-4 OLB money, for the next 3 years at least. The Colts want Freeney to test the market and get what he can with a 4-3 team and not make him feel lowballed because that is what he would feel, if they offered him anything at all for his role as a 3-4 OLB. They normally do that with players they cut.

 

 

I am not suggesting the Freeney and Welker are necessarrily an apples to apples comparison, although I could argue Welker was also paid a boat load last year given he was franchised, but my argument was more about a team's decision to release or resign players. Southwest was pretty adamant that the Pats should have not only resigned Welker but that he should have retired a Patriot. There were many financial implications to resigning him just like Freeney, with the most important one being he turned down an above market value contract last year and another fair market value contract this year to go to Denver for 2 mil more. While I certainly understand's southwest's passion wanting to see Welker retire a Patriot, he does not to seem to have nearly the same passion for Freeney who was the cornerstone of the Colts D for years and helped them win a SB unlike Welker. Just wondering why he is not more outraged.

[bayone]

Thought u would like this

 

PS I THOUGHT U WOULD LIKE THIS

Patriots
12-4

Danny Amendola for Wes Welker is an upgrade as long as the former Rams slot receiver can stay healthy. (Hensley)

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/74371/espn-coms-nfl-pre-draft-power-rankings-2

 

 

I am not suggesting the Freeney and Welker are necessarrily an apples to apples comparison, although I could argue Welker was also paid a boat load last year given he was franchised, but my argument was more about a team's decision to release or resign players. Southwest was pretty adamant that the Pats should have not only resigned Welker but that he should have retired a Patriot. There were many financial implications to resigning him just like Freeney, with the most important one being he turned down an above market value contract last year and another fair market value contract this year to go to Denver for 2 mil more. While I certainly understand's southwest's passion wanting to see Welker retire a Patriot, he does not to seem to have nearly the same passion for Freeney who was the cornerstone of the Colts D for years and helped them win a SB unlike Welker. Just wondering why he is not more outraged.

[amfootball]

Yes, two different situations but the Pats were phasing out Welker last year or at least reducing his role which they then had to abandon due to injuires to the TEs. So, it is not as different as you might believe. And Welker was offered an above market deal last year that he turned down so again my point is more on the sentimental value here not the business side as I completely understand why both orgs let the players go. I am just wondering why there is not more outrage over Freeney from southwest. That's it.

I  stand by what I said earlier

 

He should retire a Colt yes, he just isnt a 3-4 LB, if he doesnt find a team and decides to retire , then his only team would be the colts, to officially retire him as a colt guess then can do like did with Saturday, right now freeney wants to play and needs a 4-3 team defense,

-------------------------------

to add

 

Freeney Knows this well, He also almost refused last year to play and was quite VOCAL saying i have never not hand my hand on the ground and dont see any reasoin why I should have to now play from a stand up position , this went on quite awhile and he's lucky he wasnt cut last year & he didnt want to give up that money so he played & Irsay was gracious enough to keep him

 

But I am sure he & irsay with an entire new staff and new Defensive philosophy didint in some way discuss this all  , the cut was expected by all , no contract was expected, last year he was given a thankyou by not being cut for all the years of great work

 

Its totally different than welker who still  fits the system

 

Freeney new this was coming

[southwest1]

 You could more than afford to sign Freeney right now. 

 

But to be honest, I am somewhat perplexed by your lack of outrage over him not retiring as a Colt and equally stunned by your ability to see the financial issues related to Freeney that would make the Colts want to cut bait but not with Welker. You feel the Pats should have retained Welker no matter what even when I brought up the above market contract they offered him last year at 2 years for 16m which he turned down and the $9.5 he banked on the franchise tag. Then when the Pats offered him another fair market contract this year he bolted for 2mil more. You can't have it both ways.

 

I mean the Colts didn't even offer him a deal at all unlike the Pats with Welker. Again, where is the outrage? Freeney was basically kicked to the curb.

 

 

 Southwest was pretty adamant that the Pats should have not only resigned Welker but that he should have retired a Patriot. There were many financial implications to resigning him just like Freeney, with the most important one being he turned down an above market value contract last year and another fair market value contract this year to go to Denver for 2 mil more. While I certainly understand's southwest's passion wanting to see Welker retire a Patriot, he does not to seem to have nearly the same passion for Freeney who was the cornerstone of the Colts D for years and helped them win a SB unlike Welker. Just wondering why he is not more outraged.

Look amfootball, Dwight Freeney is a put your hand in the dirt & bear down on the QB DE. He's not well suited as an OLB. That's not his specialty or forte. With new coaches, come new schemes & Freeney is not a drop back in coverage kind of player. It's as simple as that. Pagano's scheme is not what Freeney excels at. I'm never gonna tell a guy when he should retire. Only the athlete & his body can determine that. Salary isn't the issue here capatibility is. 

 

Wes Welker is completely different because no significant coaching changes have taken place. Bill Belichick is still running football operations in Foxboro, Welker can execute the routes blindfolded, & Welker can still move the 3rd down chains into 1st downs without any significant drop off at all. A completely different situation from Dwight Freeney. Why would I be outraged over #93's dismissal from INDY when the new scheme does not fit his natural gifts as a pass rusher? Scheme can make or break any veteran NFL player. I admire Freeney's loyal years of service to the Colts organization sure, but he does suit or system now. It's as simple as that amfootball. There really is no need to be perplexed by my acceptance of Dwight's departure from LOS at all. It makes perfect sense actually. Scheme is the issue not age, experience, or money. 

[amfootball]

Look amfootball, Dwight Freeney is a put your hand in the dirt & bear down on the QB DE. He's not well suited as an OLB. That's not his specialty or forte. With new coaches, come new schemes & Freeney is not a drop back in coverage kind of player. It's as simple as that. Pagano's scheme is not what Freeney excels at. I'm never gonna tell a guy when he should retire. Only the athlete & his body can determine that. Salary isn't the issue here capatibility is. 

 

Wes Welker is completely different because no significant coaching changes have taken place. Bill Belichick is still running football operations in Foxboro, Welker can execute the routes blindfolded, & Welker can still move the 3rd down chains into 1st downs without any significant drop off at all. A completely different situation from Dwight Freeney. Why would I be outraged over #93's dismissal from INDY when the new scheme does not fit his natural gifts as a pass rusher? Scheme can make or break any veteran NFL player. I admire Freeney's loyal years of service to the Colts organization sure, but he does suit or system now. It's as simple as that amfootball. There really is no need to be perplexed by my acceptance of Dwight's departure from LOS at all. It makes perfect sense actually. Scheme is the issue not age, experience, or money. 

I got you on that. But how come you don't see the business side of it to Welker? He turned down two contracts that the Pats offered him. One that was well above market value last year and than this year which was fair market value. If anything, I would think you would be just as accepting of why Welker left as Freeney.

[amfootball]

test

[southwest1]

I got you on that. But how come you don't see the business side of it to Welker? He turned down two contracts that the Pats offered him. One that was well above market value last year and than this year which was fair market value. If anything, I would think you would be just as accepting of why Welker left as Freeney.

With Wes Welker, it's all about usefulness & respect & NE was phasing him out of the offense, basically saying we think that your field production has diminished & that the front office doesn't agree with Welker's assessment of what Welker thinks he is worth...a $2 million dollar drop in the bucket minor discrepency to Robert Kraft=pocket change. And another thing, I have no problem with a well respected owner like Kraft acknowledging Wes's marvelous contributions to the Patriots organization, in fact I welcome that & appreciate that. But, what I am vehemently opposed to is an NFL owner bringing up figures, money, & contract offers publicly to the media & the 4th estate. You never, never bring up business transactions outside the football complex. That crosses a dangerous line of ethics, program protocol, & team solidarity behind closed doors. Kraft let his emotions get the better of his judgment here IMO. 

 

I was not in the room when Welker was offered his 2 contracts by the Pats. I have no real idea what was said & neither does anyone else besides Welker, his agent, & NE front office management. Yes, Brady made Welker more productive than when he played in Miami & Tom had already won 3 SB's before Wes landed in Foxboro, but Welker was instrumental in getting NE to 2 more SB's in 2007 & 2012 & he also helped smooth Matt Cassel's transition into the starting QB lineup in 2008 when Brady had his knee injury & Cassel went 11-5 that season. Wes deserved to be handsomely compensated for all that sacrifice & hardwork as a member of the NE Patriots. Obviously, Robert Kraft & Bill Belichick did not see it that way. 

 

I still respect Kraft, Belichick, & the NE franchise tremendously, but if the Broncos get to the SB with Welker & the Pats struggle in the post season for any reason the venomous outcry in Boston, Massachusetts is gonna be heated, intense, & erupt like an active volcano spewing hot lava & lethal ash. Disrespect can be a powerful player motivator to prove your former bosses wrong & that's exactly what Welker will do...Make Kraft & Belichick pay dearly for letting him go IMO.

 

Wes Welker can forgive, but he won't forget. "Success is the best revenge" --Frank Sinatra.

[amfootball]

With Wes Welker, it's all about usefulness & respect & NE was phasing him out of the offense, basically saying we think that your field production has diminished & that the front office doesn't agree with Welker's assessment of what Welker thinks he is worth...a $2 million dollar drop in the bucket minor discrepency to Robert Kraft=pocket change. And another thing, I have no problem with a well respected owner like Kraft acknowledging Wes's marvelous contributions to the Patriots organization, in fact I welcome that & appreciate that. But, what I am vehemently opposed to is an NFL owner bringing up figures, money, & contract offers publicly to the media & the 4th estate. You never, never bring up business transactions outside the football complex. That crosses a dangerous line of ethics, program protocol, & team solidarity behind closed doors. Kraft let his emotions get the better of his judgment here IMO. 

 

I was not in the room when Welker was offered his 2 contracts by the Pats. I have no real idea what was said & neither does anyone else besides Welker, his agent, & NE front office management. Yes, Brady made Welker more productive than when he played in Miami & Tom had already won 3 SB's before Wes landed in Foxboro, but Welker was instrumental in getting NE to 2 more SB's in 2007 & 2012 & he also helped smooth Matt Cassel's transition into the starting QB lineup in 2008 when Brady had his knee injury & Cassel went 11-5 that season. Wes deserved to be handsomely compensated for all that sacrifice & hardwork as a member of the NE Patriots. Obviously, Robert Kraft & Bill Belichick did not see it that way. 

 

I still respect Kraft, Belichick, & the NE franchise tremendously, but if the Broncos get to the SB with Welker & the Pats struggle in the post season for any reason the venomous outcry in Boston, Massachusetts is gonna be heated, intense, & erupt like an active volcano spewing hot lava & lethal ash. Disrespect can be a powerful player motivator to prove your former bosses wrong & that's exactly what Welker will do...Make Kraft & Belichick pay dearly for letting him go IMO.

 

Wes Welker can forgive, but he won't forget. "Success is the best revenge" --Frank Sinatra.

I suppose we will never agree on this but the fact that you see Freeney's situation completely on the up and up and have no issue with his release and yet you think the Pats somehow have disrepected Welker and don't necessarily believe them when they say they offered him the contracts they did even though his camp/agent never denied the contracts were offered is mind boggling. Perhaps you are letting your passion of the situation get the best of you which I completely understand.

 

Orgs talk about contracts all the time as there is a salary cap and fans, especially season ticket holders want to know how the team is being built. Kraft's comments were PR control and you can dislike them if you want but again, he is concerned with his paying customers. And to pretend that we know for a second how the Pats value Welker one way or the other is complete speculation. I can tell you from watching him the past two years, his drops have increased significantly and his speed has declined. He is 32 years old and who is to say that 2 mil more would have kept him? Funny that you believe the Pats did offer him the 2 years at 10 but not the 2 years at 16 mil last year. Again, neither offer was disputed by his agent. In the end, Welker wanted money and probably more of an increased role in Denver, which is similar to Freeney. I don't blame Welker one bit but to suggest the Pats disrepected him when they paid him the franchise tender last year and offered him another contract this year makes no sense. And the Colts talked at nauseam about Freeney's contract last year but I suppose that was ok?

[southwest1]

I suppose we will never agree on this but the fact that you see Freeney's situation completely on the up and up and have no issue with his release and yet you think the Pats somehow have disrepected Welker and don't necessarily believe them when they say they offered him the contracts they did even though his camp/agent never denied the contracts were offered is mind boggling. Perhaps you are letting your passion of the situation get the best of you which I completely understand.

 

Orgs talk about contracts all the time as there is a salary cap and fans, especially season ticket holders want to know how the team is being built. Kraft's comments were PR control and you can dislike them if you want but again, he is concerned with his paying customers. And to pretend that we know for a second how the Pats value Welker one way or the other is complete speculation. I can tell you from watching him the past two years, his drops have increased significantly and his speed has declined. He is 32 years old and who is to say that 2 mil more would have kept him? Funny that you believe the Pats did offer him the 2 years at 10 but not the 2 years at 16 mil last year. Again, neither offer was disputed by his agent. In the end, Welker wanted money and probably more of an increased role in Denver, which is similar to Freeney. I don't blame Welker one bit but to suggest the Pats disrepected him when they paid him the franchise tender last year and offered him another contract this year makes no sense. And the Colts talked at nauseam about Freeney's contract last year but I suppose that was ok?

You covered a lot of ground there in your response. Yes, I have always liked Wes Welker even when he was a WR in Miami & his career skyrocketed in NE. Am I letting my passion for Wes blur my objectivity? Perhaps a little, but despite his age he can still deliver on the intelligence & field production front IMO. I don't give a darn what other football organizations do & Dwight Freeney has zero relevancy in a Wes Welker contract discussion. Other than to say they are 2 veteran players who contributed a lot to their franchises & both were not signed to a new contract with their most familiar clubs. A completely different situation in both cases. 

 

Nope. I disagree 100%. Mentioning that status of contract negotiations with a player is one thing, but discussing how much you offered a player to the media is completely out of bounds. You don't do that under any circumstances ever. And another thing, Wes Welker's contract was driven by incentives not guaranteed money. So, when Robert Kraft says NE offered Welker a better contract with more money than Denver did, that's not entirely accurate. Again, Kraft can talk about Wes Welker's loyal years of service to the Patriots organization, how much his team mates & the coaching staff loved him on the field & in the locker room, & he can wish him success down the road with his new team, but the fans never need to know what the Pats offered Wes ever. Very non "Patriot Way" if you ask me personally. The only thing Robert Kraft & Bill Belichick is obligated to do for the fans is put a Championship caliber team on the field every single season. If Robert & Bill does that, ticket & jersey sales will remain high, the stadium still makes a handsome product, & fans & ownership are happy & content. 

 

I also disagree with you on Welker's dropped balls & level of production. Sometimes a change of scenery does a veteran player wonders in the long run. Wes is gonna fit like a glove in Denver. "1 person's trash is another person's treasure." 

[southwest1]

1 final clarification from my previous Wes Welker response. Once a contract between a player & an NFL franchise has been finalized & signed by all the parties involved, you can discuss a contract line by line to your heart's content for all I care. However, in the middle of contract discussions or if talks break down & fall apart completely, ownership, coaches, & agents need to shut the bleep up & say nothing period.

Plus with Denver WRs Decker & Thomas & Welker in the slot, Peyton Manning is gonna have a field day moving the chains & scoring TDs almost at will IMHO. Wes is a vital cog in Denver & he won't be expected to carry the whole offense load for the Broncos either.

Yes, amfootball I guess we will never see eye to eye on the Wes Welker situation. That's fine. Friends see eye to eye on everything right? Nice chatting with you.

[southwest1]

Since Dumervil signed with Baltimore, does that mean Freeney is bound for Denver? Man, I hope so. Come Elway, don't disappoint me man. Bring on #93 baby!!!

[bayone]

Since Dumervil signed with Baltimore, does that mean Freeney is bound for Denver? Man, I hope so. Come Elway, don't disappoint me man. Bring on #93 baby!!!

SCOUTING FREENEY

Dwight failed to transition from a 4-3 rush defensive end to an outside linebacker last season. In fairness to Dwight, he did everything asked of him and, despite having his worst statistical season of his career, he never complained. He played hard. He played through pain (injured his foot in Week One against the Bears, and the injury lingered all season). He led by example. More importantly, when he lined up and teed off on the quarterback last season, he consistently required a double-team from the opponent's blocking scheme. Freeney is now much better suited as a situational pass rusher in a 4-3 scheme. He cannot drop into coverage, which makes Denver a great fit because they won't ask him to do that. The ideal situation is for Freeney to start, but rotate in and out on plays depending on down and distance. He is still explosive. He can still spin, twirl, and bull rush people. It makes all the sense in the world for Denver to sign him after losingElvis Dumervil

 

Yet despite his lingering injury and change of position, Freeney came on strong and finished with a sack in each of his last 3 games. Denver didn't ask Elvis to drop back into coverage or pick up the run all that frequently, so it isn't exactly a leap to assume that Freeney will be used in the exact same way, which is perfect because that is the type of player that Freeney is, and that is the type of situation that earned him 7 pro bowls and 3 all pro honors! To wrap this piece up nicely, think of it like this, Elvis was no longer the focal point of the pass rush or the defense; Von Miller is. Because offenses need to scheme more for Miller than Dumervil, Dumervil saw less double teams than in years past. Freeney will enter into the same situation that Dumervil has enjoyed. No longer will Freeney be the focal point of the defense, so for the first time in his entire career, he'll see more 1 on 1 schemes and be able to wreak havoc on opposing QBs.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/3/25/4145198/possible-dumervil-replacement-scouting-dwight-freeney

[southwest1]

SCOUTING FREENEY

Dwight failed to transition from a 4-3 rush defensive end to an outside linebacker last season. In fairness to Dwight, he did everything asked of him and, despite having his worst statistical season of his career, he never complained. He played hard. He played through pain (injured his foot in Week One against the Bears, and the injury lingered all season). He led by example. More importantly, when he lined up and teed off on the quarterback last season, he consistently required a double-team from the opponent's blocking scheme. Freeney is now much better suited as a situational pass rusher in a 4-3 scheme. He cannot drop into coverage, which makes Denver a great fit because they won't ask him to do that. The ideal situation is for Freeney to start, but rotate in and out on plays depending on down and distance. He is still explosive. He can still spin, twirl, and bull rush people. It makes all the sense in the world for Denver to sign him after losingElvis Dumervil

 

Yet despite his lingering injury and change of position, Freeney came on strong and finished with a sack in each of his last 3 games. Denver didn't ask Elvis to drop back into coverage or pick up the run all that frequently, so it isn't exactly a leap to assume that Freeney will be used in the exact same way, which is perfect because that is the type of player that Freeney is, and that is the type of situation that earned him 7 pro bowls and 3 all pro honors! To wrap this piece up nicely, think of it like this, Elvis was no longer the focal point of the pass rush or the defense; Von Miller is. Because offenses need to scheme more for Miller than Dumervil, Dumervil saw less double teams than in years past. Freeney will enter into the same situation that Dumervil has enjoyed. No longer will Freeney be the focal point of the defense, so for the first time in his entire career, he'll see more 1 on 1 schemes and be able to wreak havoc on opposing QBs.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/3/25/4145198/possible-dumervil-replacement-scouting-dwight-freeney

I love this statement below: Preach Baby Preach!   Exactly...

 

"Denver didn't ask Elvis to drop back into coverage or pick up the run all that frequently, so it isn't exactly a leap to assume that Freeney will be used in the exact same way, which is perfect because that is the type of player that Freeney is, and that is the type of situation that earned him 7 pro bowls and 3 all pro honors!"