I JUST GOT INTO A FIGHT! HOW MANY TROPHIES DO WE HAVE?!

[The Old Crow]

The time has passed for them to do that, and if they did that they have to do it for the Cardinals, the Rams, the Titans, the Redskins and the Raiders (to an extent). Yes I understand the historical impact the Colts had over everybody, but the history accounts to what the team is worth.

 

 

For an extended question what if Rosenbloom left, like he originally intended, before selling the team to Irsay.

 

 

There is no doubt that Rosenbloom was not happy with Baltimore for some of the same reasons Irsay was. They needed to build a new stadium for the Colts , and Baltimore bears that fault for not doing so. I liked Rosenbloom as a winning owner, but he was basically looking for a way to not pay taxes, which is why he swapped the Rams for the Colts, and got Irsay involved. Baltimore also had stupid Blue Laws in place at the time, where the kickoff times were at 2 PM EST, instead of 1 PM EST.

 

You also have to remember Baltimore in the 1970's and early 1980's was not doing well financially. For those who remember, New York City went bankrupt in the mid-1970's . Like many Northeast cities, Baltimore wasn't doing that well either. Irsay did so many horrible things, that many fans started not going to games, but many still watched. To answer your question, if Rosenbloom left, I would still feel the same way, but would have to acknowledge that at least Rosenbloom consistently put out a winning product on the field. When moves occur, the owners don't suffer, just the fans. By the way, the politicians in Baltimore and Maryland are as big of bunglers today, as they were in 1984. The only decent guy was Mayor Schaeffer, whom Bob Irsay just abused. On a side note, I don;t know if you guys know this, ex-Indianapolis mayor Hudnut lives in Maryland ! They did a story on him a few years ago. Very ironic.

[The Old Crow]

Hey Crow tell me some Irsay stories or your opinion of Johnny U leaving ?  got any good ones ? Or Old Colts stories ..

 

Were all Colts fans here lets hear what got your blood boiling blue besides the move .

 

 

I hated Johnny Unitas being traded to the San Diego Chargers in 1973. He was the best friend Baltimore ever had. GM Joe Thomas and Bob Irsay handled this horribly as usual, and Johnny should have been treated with deference like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are being treated currently by the Ravens. He should have retired as a Colt. The Colts did need a housecleaning at that time, but it was handled so heavy handed , and completely bungled.

 

 I used to very much dislike the Indy Colts, but now I like them, and think they have a great history. You can't help but like Peyton Manning, and you have a great city and stadium. I'm reconciled to the move, but still would like some better resolution to the heritage part.

 

We are like you guys on the blood boiling stuff. I'm sure we agree on a mutual dislike of the Pittsburgh Steelers and New England Patriots. With the Steelers, it's mainly the rivalry stuff. They have a good organization, but you can't help but dislike them. To me, the Patriots are the worst because of Spy-gate, the tuck rule, and the constant over protection of Brady by the NFL. He tried to "Ty Cobb ", Ed Redd, and received only a $10,000 dollar fine. If Reed had done the same thing, it would have been a $50,000 dollar fine, and two game suspension. Bellicheck walking off without giving an interview to CBS after the loss to the Ravens, tells you all you need to know about this organization.

[The Old Crow]

Hey Crow tell me some Irsay stories or your opinion of Johnny U leaving ?  got any good ones ? Or Old Colts stories ..

 

Were all Colts fans here lets hear what got your blood boiling blue besides the move .

 

 

On another note, you guys were very lucky to have been able to watch Peyton Manning. I felt the same way about Johnny U. These guys were once in a generation quarterbacks, and I believe, they are in the top 3, along with Montana. I would compare Brady to Bart Starr, both not as talented as Unitas and Manning, but had slightly better teams around them. I saw Peyton in that 2006 playoff game in Baltimore. That 15-6 loss was one of the more painful losses we had to endure. Yet, you can't help but like Manning, who always sets a good example, and is a total gentleman. His gesture towards Ray Lewis after a brutally painful loss to the Ravens in Denver, tell you all you need to know about the man. While he was doing this, no one could find Bellicheck !

[Fx Stryker]

I totally agree OC fans are the one who suffers. I enjoy hearing your input. Especially since you are from Baltimore. I've always tried to avoid the conversation with others from Baltimore because it just seem like it would go over well. Love hearing the stories from that time. Even if I heard them everyone else has their own way to tell it.

 

Enjoy picking your brain. I'm sure I'll find myself back in the conversation again in the future.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I hated Johnny Unitas being traded to the San Diego Chargers in 1973. He was the best friend Baltimore ever had. GM Joe Thomas and Bob Irsay handled this horribly as usual, and Johnny should have been treated with deference like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are being treated currently by the Ravens. He should have retired as a Colt. The Colts did need a housecleaning at that time, but it was handled so heavy handed , and completely bungled.

 

 I used to very much dislike the Indy Colts, but now I like them, and think they have a great history. You can't help but like Peyton Manning, and you have a great city and stadium. I'm reconciled to the move, but still would like some better resolution to the heritage part.

 

We are like you guys on the blood boiling stuff. I'm sure we agree on a mutual dislike of the Pittsburgh Steelers and New England Patriots. With the Steelers, it's mainly the rivalry stuff. They have a good organization, but you can't help but dislike them. To me, the Patriots are the worst because of Spy-gate, the tuck rule, and the constant over protection of Brady by the NFL. He tried to "Ty Cobb ", Ed Redd, and received only a $10,000 dollar fine. If Reed had done the same thing, it would have been a $50,000 dollar fine, and two game suspension. Bellicheck walking off without giving an interview to CBS after the loss to the Ravens, tells you all you need to know about this organization.

 

Insert being cut Peyton Manning  & his tearful goodbye   for me  ,  For you Johnny U - I feel the same now I hope to see Peyton Manning retire as a Colt if he wins a SB in Denver I wonder what happens ..

 

What did you think about Elway saying he would'nt play for the Colts ? Thoughts

 

And yes the Squeelers  a team ya love to hate .

 

 

                                              

                                             

 

The Hoodie & Brady I'v had many a lively conversation concerning these 2 over the years , Belicheck is a beavis & a sore loser , The Patriots have gotten used to winning at home as we both are aware so when he pouts you know he took it personal so it was a complete victory in my mind . Why might you ask simply put it takes a real man to face the cameras & be a good sport as usual his actions made him look worse .

 

Having said that Tom Brady a 6'th round pick has been phenomenal in New England & The Hoodie an outstanding coach whom most of us COLTS fans dislike but grudgingly admit have meant for many awesome Colts vs Patriots games .

[The Old Crow]

I totally agree OC fans are the one who suffers. I enjoy hearing your input. Especially since you are from Baltimore. I've always tried to avoid the conversation with others from Baltimore because it just seem like it would go over well. Love hearing the stories from that time. Even if I heard them everyone else has their own way to tell it.

 

Enjoy picking your brain. I'm sure I'll find myself back in the conversation again in the future.

 

 

I think you'll find many Baltimore fans are now over the Mayflower stuff. They are now putting Colts up on the scoreboard instead of Indy now at M & T Bank Stadium. It's a fascinating story of the Colts move from Baltimore to Indy, but you don't want to upset people too much, because there were alot of emotions all around. You also have to be fair, I think, and sincere. I remember when the Browns came to Baltimore, and I was happy we got an NFL team after 12 years, but I still don't feel clean about it because of the pain the Brown's fan felt. Their plight was brutal in the fact that the move was announced before the season, and the team had to endure a lame duck season. I think I'd rather have the Mayflower vans roll up, than to sit through a lame duck season.

 

I'm glad the NFL did the right thing and got Cleveland back in the NFL in 3 years, yet I know the franchise has never been the same since the move. I still disdain Taglibue and Jack Kent Cooke for keeping an NFL franchise out of Baltimore for 12 years. We were passed over for those great markets of Jacksonville and Charlotte. As we know now, those two clowns were wrong, and Baltimore was indeed, a great NFL town. I also didn't like when Orioles owner  Peter Angelos tried to keep a baseball team out of DC. These guys were all wrong, as DC and Baltimore are two distinctive markets. It would be like the Bears trying to keep a team out of Indy.

[The Old Crow]

Insert being cut Peyton Manning  & his tearful goodbye   for me  ,  For you Johnny U - I feel the same now I hope to see Peyton Manning retire as a Colt if he wins a SB in Denver I wonder what happens ..

 

What did you think about Elway saying he would'nt play for the Colts ? Thoughts

 

And yes the Squeelers  a team ya love to hate .

 

 

                                              

                                             

 

The Hoodie & Brady I'v had many a lively conversation concerning these 2 over the years , Belicheck is a beavis & a sore loser , The Patriots have gotten used to winning at home as we both are aware so when he pouts you know he took it personal so it was a complete victory in my mind . Why might you ask simply put it takes a real man to face the cameras & be a good sport as usual his actions made him look worse .

 

Having said that Tom Brady a 6'th round pick has been phenomenal in New England & The Hoodie an outstanding coach whom most of us COLTS fans dislike but grudgingly admit have meant for many awesome Colts vs Patriots games .

 

 

Since you brought it up, obviously I never liked spoiled Elway refusing to play for the Baltimore Colts. I would even go as far to say that it was a small factor in the move to Indy. Had Elway agreed to play for the Colts, some more fans would have come out, and maybe the stupid politicians in Baltimore would have built a stadium, and not dragged out the stupid Eminent Domain deal.

 

What was especially grating was that Elway used an offer to play baseball for the hated New York Yankees as leverage against Irsay. I believe Ernie Accorsi pleaded with Irsay to not trade Elway because it was a bluff, but Irsay gave in and traded him for Mark Herman , Chris Hinton , and a #1 pick, in one of the worst trades in NFL history. Once they moved to Indy, you guys got screwed too, thanks to good old George Steinbrenner. I have to tell you everytime the Ravens beat the Broncos, I get a special satisfaction seeing Elway in pain. I loved it when he lost three super bowls, and I can honestly tell you I wish he wouldn't have won the last two. I have similar feelings about Eli Manning, for the stunt he pulled with San Diego. The NFL draft is set up like this for a reason, and I think they should ban these guys for three years if they refuse to play for the teams that drafted them.

 

The other thing about the Patriots in that ludicrous Tuck Rule game, is when the snow plow came in to clear the path for Viniteri.Unbelieveable. The Raider's fans should always be rightfully upset about this. I've often wondered how Colt fans feel about Bellicheck, with his spy-gate advantages, when he won alot of close games over the Colts. These incidents, are like the steroid stooges, that have mucked up the history of baseball.

[NewEra]

I think you'll find many Baltimore fans are now over the Mayflower stuff. They are now putting Colts up on the scoreboard instead of Indy now at M & T Bank Stadium. It's a fascinating story of the Colts move from Baltimore to Indy, but you don't want to upset people too much, because there were alot of emotions all around. You also have to be fair, I think, and sincere. I remember when the Browns came to Baltimore, and I was happy we got an NFL team after 12 years, but I still don't feel clean about it because of the pain the Brown's fan felt. Their plight was brutal in the fact that the move was announced before the season, and the team had to endure a lame duck season. I think I'd rather have the Mayflower vans roll up, than to sit through a lame duck season.

I'm glad the NFL did the right thing and got Cleveland back in the NFL in 3 years, yet I know the franchise has never been the same since the move. I still disdain Taglibue and Jack Kent Cooke for keeping an NFL franchise out of Baltimore for 12 years. We were passed over for those great markets of Jacksonville and Charlotte. As we know now, those two clowns were wrong, and Baltimore was indeed, a great NFL town. I also didn't like when Orioles owner Peter Angelos tried to keep a baseball team out of DC. These guys were all wrong, as DC and Baltimore are two distinctive markets. It would be like the Bears trying to keep a team out of Indy.

Yeah I don't think you will hear to many or any Colts fan at all say we don't blame you or the Baltimore fans for the hurt feelings. Old Bob sounded like a real *. Glad I didn't have to suffer through those years. We all love his son to death though and know he would never pull that crap. It's almost sounded like he deliberately ran the team into the ground cause they didn't want to build a new stadium. Giving reason to bounce cause lack of support. The whole deal is crazy and wrong in so many ways and their is deep scares there that aren't healing over anytime soon. Pain is still there, you just learn to deal with it and move on.

If I wasn't a Colts fan the Ravens are a team I could really get behind and support. Have liked the team ever since 2000 when they were a defensive juggernaut. Regardless of what Lewis may have did or didn't do in the past you never heard a peep from him again. I am truly happy to get Pagano from you guys. A go who has brought that same hard nose football to the Colts. While I loved the manning days I always thought we was a soft powder puff team. Well after Edge left at least.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

As a Colts fans when I heard the Elway stuff I thought what a loser still do . I really hated seeing #18 sign with horse face & the bronc- ets .

 

I agree NewEra

 

I was happy with the hiring of Coach Pagano as well the Ravens D has always given teams fits including Manning & Brady with the Colts D  pretty much a joke for Peyton Mannings career we need someone to finally fix a D that resembles the Charlie Brown of the NFL . If the coach fixs our D Andrew Lucks career as a Colt QB could very well exceed #18's . No matter how many points #18 put up our D would find a way to fail . 

[The Old Crow]

Yeah I don't think you will hear to many or any Colts fan at all say we don't blame you or the Baltimore fans for the hurt feelings. Old Bob sounded like a real *. Glad I didn't have to suffer through those years. We all love his son to death though and know he would never pull that crap. It's almost sounded like he deliberately ran the team into the ground cause they didn't want to build a new stadium. Giving reason to bounce cause lack of support. The whole deal is crazy and wrong in so many ways and their is deep scares there that aren't healing over anytime soon. Pain is still there, you just learn to deal with it and move on.

If I wasn't a Colts fan the Ravens are a team I could really get behind and support. Have liked the team ever since 2000 when they were a defensive juggernaut. Regardless of what Lewis may have did or didn't do in the past you never heard a peep from him again. I am truly happy to get Pagano from you guys. A go who has brought that same hard nose football to the Colts. While I loved the manning days I always thought we was a soft powder puff team. Well after Edge left at least.

 

Bob was also a terrible owner for Indianapolis, minus perhaps the 1995 season. We had some nice years in 75-77 with the Colts, but that was about it. The low point was 0-8-1 in the strike filled 1982 season. I';m hoping the Angelos boys do as well as Jim Irsay as owner, because Peter Angelos of the Orioles is a bungler like Bob was. I'm glad he got Duquette and Showalter in there, much like Jim Irsay did with a pro in Polian. Dan Synder is another example of a hands on owner, who doesn't know much. When you get owners like these, it is a complete nitemare.

 

Coach Pagano is a good egg. I'm hoping Jim Caldwell gets another crack at coaching because he deserves it. I think the jury is still out on Jim Irsay's moves on Manning, Caldwell, and the Polians. This year worked out great, and Luck looks like the real deal, but dang that was cold getting rid of all those guys like that. It was a bold move to be sure. This year I think it worked out better than anyone expected. Denver was probably the best overall team in the league this year, but as we know , the best team doesn't always win. I think that Raven's team last year was better than this year's version. Had that bum Lee Evans held onto the ball, I am positive we would have beaten the Giants, as we matched up better against them than the Patriots. Those kind of games kill you, especially when non-performers like Evans and Cundiff break your back.

[The Old Crow]

As a Colts fans when I heard the Elway stuff I thought what a loser still do . I really hated seeing #18 sign with horse face & the bronc- ets .

 

I agree NewEra

 

I was happy with the hiring of Coach Pagano as well the Ravens D has always given teams fits including Manning & Brady with the Colts D  pretty much a joke for Peyton Mannings career we need someone to finally fix a D that resembles the Charlie Brown of the NFL . If the coach fixs our D Andrew Lucks career as a Colt QB could very well exceed #18's . No matter how many points #18 put up our D would find a way to fail . 

 

 

When you guys see Manning in Denver, it's like Johnny Unitas in San Diego. It should never happen. I know people have mixed feelings about Ray Lewis, but I'm glad he remained a Raven, just like Brooks, Cal, and Jim Palmer with the Orioles. The tough thing for the Colts, was that Luck and RG 3 were available when Peyton was coming off risky neck surgery. The cap and Bonus's were looming, but overall, it was a good problem to have. The painful part was parting with Manning, when he is still good, and did not want to retire. It was a painful situation. The Ravens have a plan for Ed Reed to play for a reduced rate, than become a coach, if he wants it. I guess it all depends on whether anyone else offers him a boatload of money, but the Ravens want him to retire as a Raven. I think Jim Irsay agonized over the Manning situation, but I don't think Joe Thomas or Bob Irsay gave one thought to the feelings of Unitas. The only positive was that he was able to tutor a young San Diego quarterback named Dan Fouts.

[The Old Crow]

As a Colts fans when I heard the Elway stuff I thought what a loser still do . I really hated seeing #18 sign with horse face & the bronc- ets .

 

I agree NewEra

 

I was happy with the hiring of Coach Pagano as well the Ravens D has always given teams fits including Manning & Brady with the Colts D  pretty much a joke for Peyton Mannings career we need someone to finally fix a D that resembles the Charlie Brown of the NFL . If the coach fixs our D Andrew Lucks career as a Colt QB could very well exceed #18's . No matter how many points #18 put up our D would find a way to fail . 

 

 

It was funny, when Bob irsay came in from Chicago, there was speculation from the first that he wanted to move the team to the midwest. I think he made his fortune selling air conditioners and heating in the Chicago area. He really knew nothing about running a team, and had no PR savvy whatsoever. He hired Joe Thomas in 1973, who was a pretty good football man with the Vikings and Dolphins, but was a brutal GM who went through five coaches in a five year time frame. I won't go as far as saying Irsay purposely ran the Colts into the ground, but he just didn't know what the heck he was doing. His drinking, and volitile relationship with the Baltimore press, especially Baltimore News American reporter John Steadman, was legendary. I don't profess to know the family dynamics, but I know his mother was quoted as calling Bob, the devil on earth, that one. That was in a SI article.

 

Here was an excert from Ted Patterson's book on the Baltimore Colts that gives you an idea what it was like with Bob Irsay at that time.  " After a 24-9 exhibition loss to Detroit in 1976, the press was kept outside the locker room while Irsay ranted and raved inside, critisizing the team's effort, and threatening to fire the coaches. On the bus to the airport, 15 year old Jimmy Irsay got up in tears and apologized for his father's actions. " Ted Marchibroda then had a showdown on Irsay's boat the Might I in Milwaukee, When Irsay told Marchibroda that Joe Thomas was in charge, Marchibroda quit. After the players threatened a boycott, Marchibroda was reinstated, and the Colts won Eastern Division titles in 1976 and 1977. Such was the world of the Baltimore Colts under Robert Irsay.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

It was funny, when Bob irsay came in from Chicago, there was speculation from the first that he wanted to move the team to the midwest. I think he made his fortune selling air conditioners and heating in the Chicago area. He really knew nothing about running a team, and had no PR savvy whatsoever. He hired Joe Thomas in 1973, who was a pretty good football man with the Vikings and Dolphins, but was a brutal GM who went through five coaches in a five year time frame. I won't go as far as saying Irsay purposely ran the Colts into the ground, but he just didn't know what the heck he was doing. His drinking, and volitile relationship with the Baltimore press, especially Baltimore News American reporter John Steadman, was legendary. I don't profess to know the family dynamics, but I know his mother was quoted as calling Bob, the devil on earth, that one. That was in a SI article.

 

Here was an excert from Ted Patterson's book on the Baltimore Colts that gives you an idea what it was like with Bob Irsay at that time.  " After a 24-9 exhibition loss to Detroit in 1976, the press was kept outside the locker room while Irsay ranted and raved inside, critisizing the team's effort, and threatening to fire the coaches. On the bus to the airport, 15 year old Jimmy Irsay got up in tears and apologized for his father's actions. " Ted Marchibroda then had a showdown on Irsay's boat the Might I in Milwaukee, When Irsay told Marchibroda that Joe Thomas was in charge, Marchibroda quit. After the players threatened a boycott, Marchibroda was reinstated, and the Colts won Eastern Division titles in 1976 and 1977. Such was the world of the Baltimore Colts under Robert Irsay.

Good stuff Crow I & I'm sure others as well would agree ,When it comes to the Colts & there history you have a insight & perspective that is interesting to all not just me .  All Colts fans are curious some are reluctant to broach the subject ,  I'v seen some down right hatred on other boards like CBS  that really just goes overboard .

 

There is common ground between all Colts fans & it starts with the Blue & the horse shoe . I 'm not the smartest pencil in the box Crow but thanks to

you & other Colts fans from where ever , I get a chance to read some

very interesting posts , Whether I agree or not the opportunity is

there for me to further my Colts knowledge & for this I just want to say thank you.

 

 

                                                                               

[The Old Crow]

Good stuff Crow I & I'm sure others as well would agree ,When it comes to the Colts & there history you have a insight & perspective that is interesting to all not just me .  All Colts fans are curious some are reluctant to broach the subject ,  I'v seen some down right hatred on other boards like CBS  that really just goes overboard .

 

There is common ground between all Colts fans & it starts with the Blue & the horse shoe . I 'm not the smartest pencil in the box Crow but thanks to

you & other Colts fans from where ever , I get a chance to read some

very interesting posts , Whether I agree or not the opportunity is

there for me to further my Colts knowledge & for this I just want to say thank you.

 

 

                                                                               

 

 

Thanks, I appreciate it. It's best to have a polite and civil football discussion on these matters. I've also enjoyed the many good points brought up by other forum members. They are fair arguments, and represent their views well. There have been some great facts presented on both sides that make it an interesting thread. Probably six years earlier, you'd just get a histerical argument about Mayflower, and the like, from many Baltimoreans, but much has changed. The whole franchise move is a very interesting piece of history between Baltimore and Indianapolis. It seems like when you're on the receiving end of a team, you don't really delve too much on what went on in the other city. You're just glad you got a team. I probably don't know the whole story about what happened in Cleveland that made Modell move, but I'm sure it's interesting.

 

The one thing we can agree upon is the Colts have been great in the Baltimore and Indy eras, and have represented the blue and white well. The Irsay years in Baltimore were very interesting. It was horrible football for the most part, but great theatre. I can only hope Peter Angelo's sons do a better job with the Orioles, than he has. Jim Irsay went through a heck of alot with the old man, but he's come out on top as a great NFL owner. When I walked out into the stands at M & T Bank Stadium for the Colts-Ravens game , I can't help but be transported by to an earlier time at old Memorial Stadium, when I see the old horseshoes. It's very wierd pulling against the uniforms you grew up cheering for. You have to have mixed feelings seeing Manning in that Denver uniform. All I know is usually whatever uniform he's in, he usually beats the Ravens. Thank god for Rhaim Moore daydreaming, for it would have been another painful loss to Manning again.