this new emphasis on defensive holding and pass interference is destroying the game

[TAPLOOK]

The only ejection in that game was Sergio being ejected out da club

 

 

Get out da the club Sergio Gronk wanna dance. That was great.

[GoPats]

I did catch the smiley face. Still...

 

 

Still... what?

 

The days of the good-spirited, playful jabs are over huh? 

[Superman]

Still... what?

The days of the good-spirited, playful jabs are over huh?

You co-signed the nonsense of others in that post. I know that you were being playful, but still, I find the aggressive and demeaning nature of some of the posts in this thread off-putting, not to mention factually incorrect. It's hard to smile about the whole thing, personally, even though someone makes a joke about it.

[GoPats]

You co-signed the nonsense of others in that post. I know that you were being playful, but still, I find the aggressive and demeaning nature of some of the posts in this thread off-putting, not to mention factually incorrect. It's hard to smile about the whole thing, personally, even though someone makes a joke about it.

 

I co-signed what?

 

All I did was respond to Doug's comment:

 

Then I'm sure he or pats fans must be whining to the refs about being the most penalized team, because the Pats should have had 5 more plus an ejection during the Colts game and the Colts should have had 2 fewer.

 

 

A comment that I found ironic, given the history between our teams...

[Superman]

Yes and no because they can't possibly throw a flag every other play. They know they can't turn the game into flags while drawing out the game to complete boredom.

If there's a penalty every other play, why shouldn't it be called?

The truth is that the vast majority of coverage is legal, and the flag is thrown when there's a penalty. Sometimes bad calls happen, but that doesn't mean that you demonize the good calls in the name of "there's too many flags!" If there's too many flags, it's because there's too many penalties, and DBs need to learn how to cover without grabbing and holding.

I don't think the league should loosen the rules just because players keep breaking them. The players need to adjust, especially on this. Because, again, if you can't cover a guy, you can't just grab and hold him all up and down the field. Same for a receiver, if you can't beat your man, you can't just push him away. For linemen, if you can't block your man, you can't just hold him. That's not football.

[Superman]

I co-signed what?

All I did was respond to Doug's comment:

A comment that I found ironic, given the history between our teams...

Your question again makes me wonder if you're ignoring the posts by other Pats fans in this thread. There's a long diatribe a page up, complaining about Bill Polian and Peyton Manning, and taking shots at Colts fans. There are other similar posts in this thread.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Oh, there was a point to your basketball analogy? My bad then.

 

After 5 yards they want no contact but the emphasis is not the issue but the way the calls are being made - inconsistent because it is football and there is always going to be some grabbing, holding, pushing just like how the Oline could get called for holding most plays but don't because it would be a flag parade. You have to be able to judge what is impeding the play and what is not, this new emphasis takes the judgement away from the refs and is giving the offense free yards and plays.

 

Watch this video about ALL of the rule changes of 1978!  The owners mandated to the competition committee that the rules be changed to stop the near lethal antics of the dominant defenses, But they also changed the rules for offensive linemen in blocking.  That rule more than the illegal contact/defensive holding opened up the passing game more than anything else.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d8111333a/Top-Ten-Things-that-Changed-the-Game-1978-rule-changes

 

as mentioned before and in the video, the O line blocking rule is tha main cause, but fans (mainly NE fans) blame the defensive backfield rules and Polian specifically.  It was well before Polian and on the new O line blocking rule in 1978 was this quote from Raymond Berry-

 

*** Another important rule change in 1978 allowed offensive linemen to block with their arms fully extended and their palms open, or as Hall of Fame Baltimore Colts wide receiver and former Patriots coach Raymond Berry called it: “legalized holding.”

This allowed quarterbacks more time to pass in the pocket. ***

 

From there, it took 35+ plus years to get here and now. Watching that vid you see why the NFL will never ever go back to the 'old way when the NFL was fun' that gladiator fans clamor for.

[GoPats]

Your question again makes me wonder if you're ignoring the posts by other Pats fans in this thread. There's a long diatribe a page up, complaining about Bill Polian and Peyton Manning, and taking shots at Colts fans. There are other similar posts in this thread.

 

I didn't read through all of the posts in the thread. If I see things going south and starting to lack in civility, I try to stay out of it, unless I see something that's waaaayyyyy over the top like the post I responded to. 

 

When you said I "co-signed" I started looking for any posts I "liked" and didn't see any. 

[-JJ-]

all they have to do is call it early and often and the players would adjust. But I agree it works....the tactic has been utilized quite well in basketball too.

yes they could but players/coaches will still see it and adjust once they stop.

That's what they did in preseason and first cpl games.

[BOTT]

yes they could but players/coaches will still see it and adjust once they stop.That's what they did in preseason and first cpl games.

I mean at the start of individual games. Refs know which players/teams straddle the line. You get 3 PI's in the first quarter you will stop.

[sportsworld33]

The only people who defend the 5 yard penalty are Colts fans.  You can't go on any other team's website and find their fans defending what Polian did.

 

And it's not because Colts fans believe in their hearts it's the right thing to do, it's just a defense mechanism to defend it because it was Polian who pushed it.

 

But then you read other posts on here by Colts fans saying they hope a Colts' player or anyone takes out Gronk's legs and injures him.

[sportsworld33]

Colts fans believe in their heads still that the only team that could possibly benefit from the 5 yard rule is the Colts.  It's psychological during the Manning/Polian years of believing Manning/Harrison/Wayne can exploit it and no one else could.  That's all it was, it was to try to benefit the Colts and no one else.  You won't find many Colts fans courageous enough to publicly admit it but they will admit it privately.

 

The 5 yard rule was only put in place after the Pats beat the Colts.  Colts fans used silly terminology like "mugging" and all that.

 

But when ever the issue of Gronkowski is brought up here the Colts fans act like gang banging thugs carrying pipes looking to take out his legs.  lol  Or they'll mention something about hoping LaRon Landry knocks someone out.  The Colts might have the most hypocritical fanbase in sports, almost as bad as the Montreal Canadiens.

 

They need to get rid of that rule and totally come up with a new more common sense rule.  Also to stop pandering to the "Fantasy Sports" nonsense of wanting games to have high scores to satisfy all the fantasy sports obsessors.

 

Put Brady, Manning and Rodgers in the NFL back in the 1970's and 80's and their stats wouldn't be nearly as good as they are today.  Those QB's wouldn't get up from the hits that Ron Jaworski took.

[sportsworld33]

There's also another ridiculous conspiracy on here by Colts' fans about "Revis getting too much leeway."  lol  They focus on Revis because he's with the Pats, that's it and only it.  If he played for the Colts he'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread and no Colts fan would say anything about it.

 

Someone prove with official stats from the NFL that Revis gets more "leeway" than other top CB's.

 

Revis gets no more leeway than Davis or Sherman.

[Superman]

I didn't read through all of the posts in the thread. If I see things going south and starting to lack in civility, I try to stay out of it, unless I see something that's waaaayyyyy over the top like the post I responded to.

When you said I "co-signed" I started looking for any posts I "liked" and didn't see any.

Need further evidence?

Not a shot at you, but you can probably see why I'd be weary of the "Colts fans complain" meme, right?

[Bobbycovert]

Colts fans believe in their heads still that the only team that could possibly benefit from the 5 yard rule is the Colts.  It's psychological during the Manning/Polian years of believing Manning/Harrison/Wayne can exploit it and no one else could.  That's all it was, it was to try to benefit the Colts and no one else.  You won't find many Colts fans courageous enough to publicly admit it but they will admit it privately.

 

The 5 yard rule was only put in place after the Pats beat the Colts.  Colts fans used silly terminology like "mugging" and all that.

 

But when ever the issue of Gronkowski is brought up here the Colts fans act like gang banging thugs carrying pipes looking to take out his legs.  lol  Or they'll mention something about hoping LaRon Landry knocks someone out.  The Colts might have the most hypocritical fanbase in sports, almost as bad as the Montreal Canadiens.

 

They need to get rid of that rule and totally come up with a new more common sense rule.  Also to stop pandering to the "Fantasy Sports" nonsense of wanting games to have high scores to satisfy all the fantasy sports obsessors.

 

Put Brady, Manning and Rodgers in the NFL back in the 1970's and 80's and their stats wouldn't be nearly as good as they are today.  Those QB's wouldn't get up from the hits that Ron Jaworski took.

 

It's been awhile since I've seen a post so packed with inaccuracies, generalizations, and ignorance.  You'll do well around here.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Colts fans believe in their heads still that the only team that could possibly benefit from the 5 yard rule is the Colts.  It's psychological during the Manning/Polian years of believing Manning/Harrison/Wayne can exploit it and no one else could.  That's all it was, it was to try to benefit the Colts and no one else.  You won't find many Colts fans courageous enough to publicly admit it but they will admit it privately.

 

 

 

The 5 yard rule was only put in place after the Pats beat the Colts.  Colts fans used silly terminology like "mugging" and all that.

 

{snipped}

 

Just two statements in and both are complete and utter fabrications with no supporting proof. I believe you may intentionally be trying to incite a flame war between Pats and Colts fans an fabricating false claims in order to do so.  Support your claims with some evidence or subsequent claims and statements of the like will be handled appropriately without further notification.

 

It is most apparent you read none of my posts, watched none of the video clips, nor read any of the web sites I attached that dispel these false claims.  You don't like the modern game, then go watch the NHL.  They (NFL) are not going back to MMA on the gridiron type of defense and the ensuing 9 - 3 snooze fests. If you want to complain about today's NFL, join the large group here that can complain about it  without baiting and lying.

[MJD42]

It's been awhile since I've seen a post so packed with inaccuracies, generalizations, and ignorance.  You'll do well around here.

That post is nothing. Go over to the NE/GB thread for a real treat ....

[MJD42]

Need further evidence?

Not a shot at you, but you can probably see why I'd be weary of the "Colts fans complain" meme, right?

I would hope that you do not take the posts of "some" posters as representative of the Patriots fan base as a whole. In general our fan base respects the Colts and the rivalry the teams have had over the years.

[DougDew]

Getta outta here with that junk DD... we don't complain. That's the specialty of Indy fans. We wouldn't try to steal your schtick.  ;)

 

Interestingly enough, the last couple of SB winners have been among the league's most penalized teams during their championship seasons. Some penalties have no benefit at all (say, a false start) but others can work to intimidate an opponent or set a physical tone. Browner is a good example... he gets flagged fairly often but most of the time he's smart about it. There's a fine line and the best teams seem to toe it pretty well. 

Its not surprising to me that the last few SB winners break the rules more often than others, and for some, why that is viewed and accepted as being the key to success.

[DougDew]

The only ejection in that game was Sergio being ejected out da club

?  Sorry, I only speak english.

 

But I retract my statement about Kraft having refs in his back pocket.  After hearing your statements, he probably just gets up on his step stool and looks the ref in the eye and whines about how many times his team gets caught breaking the rules during a game.

[sportsworld33]

Just two statements in and both are complete and utter fabrications with no supporting proof. I believe you may intentionally be trying to incite a flame war between Pats and Colts fans an fabricating false claims in order to do so.  Support your claims with some evidence or subsequent claims and statements of the like will be handled appropriately without further notification.

 

It is most apparent you read none of my posts, watched none of the video clips, nor read any of the web sites I attached that dispel these false claims.  You don't like the modern game, then go watch the NHL.  They (NFL) are not going back to MMA on the gridiron type of defense and the ensuing 9 - 3 snooze fests. If you want to complain about today's NFL, join the large group here that can complain about it  without baiting and lying.

 

Talk about complete nonsense, overreaction and living in a extreme black and white world.

 

First, you lost all credibility when you compared the NFL to the MMA.  LOL!  When you got a steroid guy on your team (Laron Landry) who looks like he should be in the MMA instead of the NFL.  Hypocrisy there.

 

Then claimed games were 9-3 snooze fests before the rules were enforced.   Most games in the 1970's and 1980's were not "9-3 snooze fests."  lol   Yeah, those Montana/Rice 49ers teams were "snooze fests" barely scoring points, sure.  lol  They actually played real football and had to play outside and not in climate controlled arenas.

 

And nothing I said is a lie.  There is no other team forum where their fans support today's NFL and what Polian did.

 

And what is a complete lie is to use the word and term: "mugging" to describe a D-Back playing a little more physical with a WR.

 

lol  Talk about a disingenuous way to use a word: "mugging" which is a criminal act where someone on the street is robbed and had their belongings (wallet, watch, shoes etc) stolen.

 

Now go watch your Bob Sanders and Landry youtube videos of them "mugging" people which you loved so much.  Or maybe we can search back on this forum to the Gronkowski thread of Colts fans here talking about how they hoped someone injured Gronk.

[sportsworld33]

But I retract my statement about Kraft having refs in his back pocket.  After hearing your statements, he probably just gets up on his step stool and looks the ref in the eye and whines about how many times his team gets caught breaking the rules during a game.

 

Just two statements in and both are complete and utter fabrications with no supporting proof. Support your claims with some evidence or subsequent claims and statements of the like will be handled appropriately without further notification.

[TAPLOOK]

Colts fans believe in their heads still that the only team that could possibly benefit from the 5 yard rule is the Colts.  It's psychological during the Manning/Polian years of believing Manning/Harrison/Wayne can exploit it and no one else could.  That's all it was, it was to try to benefit the Colts and no one else.  You won't find many Colts fans courageous enough to publicly admit it but they will admit it privately.

 

The 5 yard rule was only put in place after the Pats beat the Colts.  Colts fans used silly terminology like "mugging" and all that.

 

But when ever the issue of Gronkowski is brought up here the Colts fans act like gang banging thugs carrying pipes looking to take out his legs.  lol  Or they'll mention something about hoping LaRon Landry knocks someone out.  The Colts might have the most hypocritical fanbase in sports, almost as bad as the Montreal Canadiens.

 

They need to get rid of that rule and totally come up with a new more common sense rule.  Also to stop pandering to the "Fantasy Sports" nonsense of wanting games to have high scores to satisfy all the fantasy sports obsessors.

 

Put Brady, Manning and Rodgers in the NFL back in the 1970's and 80's and their stats wouldn't be nearly as good as they are today.  Those QB's wouldn't get up from the hits that Ron Jaworski took.

 

Talk about complete nonsense, overreaction and living in a extreme black and white world.

 

First, you lost all credibility when you compared the NFL to the MMA.  LOL!  When you got a steroid guy on your team (Laron Landry) who looks like he should be in the MMA instead of the NFL.  Hypocrisy there.

 

Then claimed games were 9-3 snooze fests before the rules were enforced.   Most games in the 1970's and 1980's were not "9-3 snooze fests."  lol   Yeah, those Montana/Rice 49ers teams were "snooze fests" barely scoring points, sure.  lol  They actually played real football and had to play outside and not in climate controlled arenas.

 

And nothing I said is a lie.  There is no other team forum where their fans support today's NFL and what Polian did.

 

And what is a complete lie is to use the word and term: "mugging" to describe a D-Back playing a little more physical with a WR.

 

lol  Talk about a disingenuous way to use a word: "mugging" which is a criminal act where someone on the street is robbed and had their belongings (wallet, watch, shoes etc) stolen.

 

Now go watch your Bob Sanders and Landry youtube videos of them "mugging" people which you loved so much.  Or maybe we can search back on this forum to the Gronkowski thread of Colts fans here talking about how they hoped someone injured Gronk.

 

 

Great post. I love the Canadians part...so true. As for QB's i don't think you can compare one era against others. Guys who were great in their time deserve complete recognition as all-time greats of the game. Today's QB's would dominate the league of yesteryear's with physicality alone. Today's QB's are tough but play a very different much evolved game. Some myself included think many rules are crossing the line at this point and hurting more than helping the game.       

[sportsworld33]

Great post. I love the Canadians part...so true. As for QB's i don't think you can compare one era against others. Guys who were great in their time deserve complete recognition as all-time greats of the game. Today's QB's would dominate the league of yesteryear's with physicality alone. Today's QB's are tough but play a very different much evolved game. Some myself included think many rules are crossing the line at this point and hurting more than helping the game.       

 

That's why QB's like Dan Marino and Dan Fouts were ahead of their time.  They put up BIG fantasy numbers in a time where defenses were allowed to play.

 

If Marino and Fouts were playing in the 2000's in their prime they'd be averaging at least 45 td's a season IMO.

[sportsworld33]

If anyone thinks that the NFL was a "snooze fest" before Polian's 5 yard rule was enforced must be under 30 years old and didn't start watching football till Manning entered the NFL and isn't knowledgeable on history of sports.

 

"Former San Diego Chargers QB Dan Fouts led the NFL in passing yards four straight years from 1979 to 1982, and became the first player in history to throw for 4,000 yards in three consecutive seasons."

 

"Fouts was the first NFL player to surpass 4,000 passing yards in three consecutive seasons (1979–81), led the NFL in passing yards in four consecutive seasons(1979–1982) and six times eclipsed the 20-touchdown mark with a career high 33 in 1981. His career high of 4,802 passing yards during the 1981 season was an NFL record at the time."

 

"Fouts set NFL season passing yardage records in three consecutive seasons from 1979 to 1981 with totals of 4,082, 4,715, and 4,802 yards. He broke Joe Namath's record of 4,007 set in 1967, and Dan Marino broke Fouts' record in 1984 with 5,084 yards."

 

 

The bottom line is in that supposed mythical time of "muggings" in the NFL in the 1970's and 1980's there were QB's and offenses breaking NFL records putting up amazing fantasy sports type numbers.  (Fouts, Tarkenton, Montana, Marino, Elway).  And the mid 1990's of the Favre and Bledsoe years of stats galore.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Fouts

[ColtsBlueFL]

If anyone thinks that the NFL was a "snooze fest" before Polian's 5 yard rule was enforced must be under 30 years old and didn't start watching football till Manning entered the NFL and isn't knowledgeable on history of sports.

 

"Former San Diego Chargers QB Dan Fouts led the NFL in passing yards four straight years from 1979 to 1982, and became the first player in history to throw for 4,000 yards in three consecutive seasons."

 

"Fouts was the first NFL player to surpass 4,000 passing yards in three consecutive seasons (1979–81), led the NFL in passing yards in four consecutive seasons(1979–1982) and six times eclipsed the 20-touchdown mark with a career high 33 in 1981. His career high of 4,802 passing yards during the 1981 season was an NFL record at the time."

 

"Fouts set NFL season passing yardage records in three consecutive seasons from 1979 to 1981 with totals of 4,082, 4,715, and 4,802 yards. He broke Joe Namath's record of 4,007 set in 1967, and Dan Marino broke Fouts' record in 1984 with 5,084 yards."

 

 

The bottom line is in that supposed mythical time of "muggings" in the NFL in the 1970's and 1980's there were QB's and offenses breaking NFL records putting up amazing fantasy sports type numbers.  (Fouts, Tarkenton, Montana, Marino, Elway).  And the mid 1990's of the Favre and Bledsoe years of stats galore.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Fouts

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d8111333a/Top-Ten-Things-that-Changed-the-Game-1978-rule-changes

 

Fouts was after the rule changes.  Watch the  whole video.  Particularly sections at 58 seconds to 1:01, and 1:18 seconds to 1:21.  Learn definition of Metaphor:

 

Metaphor

[met-uh-fawr, -fer]

 

noun

1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance

 

and thus can be used in conversation regarding above.

 

Also in video, from 1970 through 1977, not a single QB in the leagues threw more than 30 TD's in a season. After these Rule changes were instituted in 1978, 30 TD's a season has been eclipsed more than 39 times!

 

As for your Fouts reference, thank you for making my point!  Look at his results before the rules change (1973 -1977).  Then look at the results from 1978 on when the rules were changed.

 

 

This was the exact result Pete Rozelle wanted got from the rules changes implemented for 1978. Marino, Elway, and Montana all benefitted. And it is considered the Offensive lineman blocking rule change had as much or more influence than the no contact beyond 5 yards rule. Your insistence that these rule were put in place only after Manning-Polian are false and you know this to  be true. For you to continue to insist this is is a false claim already proven as such, and you cannot continue to claim otherwise unless you bring verifiable facts to the table to dispute the evidence already put forth.

[ColtsBlueFL]

That's why QB's like Dan Marino and Dan Fouts were ahead of their time.  They put up BIG fantasy numbers in a time where defenses were allowed to play.

 

If Marino and Fouts were playing in the 2000's in their prime they'd be averaging at least 45 td's a season IMO.

 

They received benefit to the same rules changes implemented in 1978 that tipped the balance of the game that exists to this day.  to me, Roger Staubach, Bob Griese, and Kenny Stabler (and Fran Tarkenton) were the guys ahead of their time. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Great post. I love the Canadians part...so true. As for QB's i don't think you can compare one era against others. Guys who were great in their time deserve complete recognition as all-time greats of the game. Today's QB's would dominate the league of yesteryear's with physicality alone. Today's QB's are tough but play a very different much evolved game. Some myself included think many rules are crossing the line at this point and hurting more than helping the game.       

 

Second quoted post is full of falsehoods and have been proven false. They know better and insisted continuance of posting proven falsehoods may be removed as being inflammatory to reasonable discussion. And for further reference, many Colts fans aren't in favor of the changes to the NFL game play that the 1978 rules have created in the NFL.  But they also know it wasn't Polian in 2004 that created it, and did it solely for the Colts benefit as well. (why would a competition committee and other owners of all other teams agree to rules that benefit only the Colts? They wouldn't!  It's his biggest falsehood).  For the record, 2004 was a "point of emphasis", just like what was imposed again this year.  No rules change, just a directive to better enforce what rules were put in place back in 1978.  Period.

 

For grins I took the stats of prime years of a QB I hated, yet admired in the middle 1970's the snake Kenny Stabler. Even though he was quite awesome before the 1978 rules changes, even he saw an immediate increase in his passing productivity (like Dan Fouts shown above) after the 1977 season.

 

[BOTT]

The only people who defend the 5 yard penalty are Colts fans.  You can't go on any other team's website and find their fans defending what Polian did.

 

And it's not because Colts fans believe in their hearts it's the right thing to do, it's just a defense mechanism to defend it because it was Polian who pushed it.

 

But then you read other posts on here by Colts fans saying they hope a Colts' player or anyone takes out Gronk's legs and injures him.

Would you paranoid patriots fans stop acting like Polian was a one man rules committee. You really think a guy like Jeff Fisher, who had to face Manning 2x per year, hated the idea but went along with it just because Polian said so? Who knew Bill could be so charming.....

[BOTT]

That's why QB's like Dan Marino and Dan Fouts were ahead of their time.  They put up BIG fantasy numbers in a time where defenses were allowed to play.

 

If Marino and Fouts were playing in the 2000's in their prime they'd be averaging at least 45 td's a season IMO.

They were great, but it also helped they, along with Joe Montana in SF, played in offenses that would go on to shape the modern nfl. The rules changes have helped, but the real explanation for the offensive explosion is the evolution and sophistication of offenses. I'm hopeful the nfl will tinker with the rules to help defenses....one day.

[House]

In other news. The NFL is still alive and thriving.

It's also being reported that fans that "Won't watch the NFL anymore because of rule changes" are in fact still watching.

Details to follow as this story develops.