3-4 D

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I like the 3-4 defense we play compared to the bend don't break 4-3 we used

to play. Except the year we won the Superbowl of course. That defense was

pretty solid, save the Patriots game though.

The D of that year sucked. Only in the playoffs did they show up.

[SteelCityColt]

The D of that year sucked. Only in the playoffs did they show up.

 

It's a pretty handy time to show up though!  

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

It's a pretty handy time to show up though!

That D of the playoffs stepped up! What took them so long? But I agree! Great timing.

[cm43sports]

A third, maybe a second round draft pick, I don't think it would take lot at his age.

A third or second round pick is much more than you seem to think it is. For comparisons sake, we traded a second round pick for Vontae Davis who is arguably a top five corner in the league. In the third round the Colts have recently drafted: TY Hilton, Dwayne Allen and Donte Moncrief. Under no circumstances should Grigson even consider trading a second or third round pick for a 34 year old pass rusher whom Grigson let walk away without an offer only two years ago. Andrew Luck is 25 which means the Colt's superbowl window is open for the next decade. Instead of having a knee-jerk reaction and wasting a second or third round pick for an old pass-rusher, it would be much wiser to use that pick to get a younger pass-rusher in the draft and continue building the defense that way.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

The D of that year sucked. Only in the playoffs did they show up.

I was referring to the playoff run but you are correct about the regular season defense.

[James Ducheteau]

I personally feel that the 3-4 defense is more suited to blitz packages than the 4-3. I think we run our 3-4 scheme with a 4-3 mentality, where its pretty predictable as to who is going to be doing what on any given play. I don't really believe you have to have that dominant rush line backer if your using the flexibility built into the 3-4 alignment. I've always felt that the true strength of the 3-4 comes from the NT and the play of your corners. With what we have in NT and corners i think we should be blitzing at a much higher rate, using overloads and safety blitz's. Of course this does open up the opportunity to get beat badly, but isn't that the whole point of the 3-4, pressure, pressure, pressure.... if we are worried about keeping it all in front then might as well be running the old Tampa 2 again...least that's my thoughts on it..

[Coffeedrinker]

I personally feel that the 3-4 defense is more suited to blitz packages than the 4-3. I think we run our 3-4 scheme with a 4-3 mentality, where its pretty predictable as to who is going to be doing what on any given play. I don't really believe you have to have that dominant rush line backer if your using the flexibility built into the 3-4 alignment. I've always felt that the true strength of the 3-4 comes from the NT and the play of your corners. With what we have in NT and corners i think we should be blitzing at a much higher rate, using overloads and safety blitz's. Of course this does open up the opportunity to get beat badly, but isn't that the whole point of the 3-4, pressure, pressure, pressure.... if we are worried about keeping it all in front then might as well be running the old Tampa 2 again...least that's my thoughts on it..

That's an interesting point.  I don't think it's quite the same as the Tampa 2 because the CBs play mostly man coverage with the safeties playing man or zone depending on the O formation.  But I do completely agree the Colts need to do a better job of disguising and bringing pressure from different people than just the 3 down lineman and 1 OLB.

[SOMDColtsfan]

It won't work without a rush LB which we don't have and Werner's not it. The secondary is playing fairly well but can be expected to cover 4 to 5+ seconds.  We better be looking for someone to fill that role if we are going to contend.

Robert Mathis is not replaceable. Going to have to dance with who we brought  

[Reddog]

Moving on then to your actual question...

 

My take is the predicament we find ourselves in is because we've relied on a pass rush from just one person, the rush backer in terms of position but more worrying in terms of players it's just been Matthis. 

 

We need, IMO, to see more pressure coming from the SAM (to his credit I think Walden has done a good jon), and also from the ILBs. Problem being I don't think we have the talent at ILB outside of Freeman. 

That's as good as answer as any, we have no quality rush LB but I particularly think Freeman could provide some pressure but that leaves Jackson in coverage which is a problem.  I'm not sure about Walden only because I haven't looked at him that way, I'll watch some video.  Thanks for the response, it's the first one I've gotten that made any sense.

[Reddog]

A third or second round pick is much more than you seem to think it is. For comparisons sake, we traded a second round pick for Vontae Davis who is arguably a top five corner in the league. In the third round the Colts have recently drafted: TY Hilton, Dwayne Allen and Donte Moncrief. Under no circumstances should Grigson even consider trading a second or third round pick for a 34 year old pass rusher whom Grigson let walk away without an offer only two years ago. Andrew Luck is 25 which means the Colt's superbowl window is open for the next decade. Instead of having a knee-jerk reaction and wasting a second or third round pick for an old pass-rusher, it would be much wiser to use that pick to get a younger pass-rusher in the draft and continue building the defense that way.

I understand your opinion, but I have seen many cases where a known veteran has been acquired for a high draft pick to fill a specific need.  Case in point, the Colts gave up a second round draft pick for an aging Booger McFarland who was absolutely instrumental in our Super Bowl season but not effective thereafter.  He, like Freeney, was a known quantity, as he played for Dungy in TB.  That pick up and Rob Morris moving to sam were huge reasons our D stepped up in the post season, as has been discussed on this post.  A draft pick is a gamble with high risk and reward.  But given the Trent deal, I have to wonder if the Colts value them as much as you and I do.

[cm43sports]

I understand your opinion, but I have seen many cases where a known veteran has been acquired for a high draft pick to fill a specific need.  Case in point, the Colts gave up a second round draft pick for an aging Booger McFarland who was absolutely instrumental in our Super Bowl season but not effective thereafter.  He, like Freeney, was a known quantity, as he played for Dungy in TB.  That pick up and Rob Morris moving to sam were huge reasons our D stepped up in the post season, as has been discussed on this post.  A draft pick is a gamble with high risk and reward.  But given the Trent deal, I have to wonder if the Colts value them as much as you and I do.

That's a win-now move and I don't believe the Colts are in the position to make that type of move right now. In five seasons, perhaps that will be something that should be explored but right now, the Colts are a young team and have plenty of time to develop and win the Lombardi. I think the most important thing for this season is that Luck takes a step forward and the defense finds some building blocks.

[Reddog]

That's a win-now move and I don't believe the Colts are in the position to make that type of move right now. In five seasons, perhaps that will be something that should be explored but right now, the Colts are a young team and have plenty of time to develop and win the Lombardi. I think the most important thing for this season is that Luck takes a step forward and the defense finds some building blocks.

I agree that bringing on Freeney would only be a smart move if we think that will put us over the top.  Luck is in the 3rd year of a 4 year deal (5th optional) which means our cap $'s are going to go up in his 2nd contract.  We will have less money for free agency and will have to rely on draft pics/rookie contracts. But it's a double edge sword, if we bring in rookies now, we will have them for the duration of their contract at those salaries, which helps in the future.  I appreciate your comments, they are thought provoking and it boils down, in my mind, do you think we can win this year and can a veteran help us.

[cm43sports]

I agree that bringing on Freeney would only be a smart move if we think that will put us over the top.  Luck is in the 3rd year of a 4 year deal (5th optional) which means our cap $'s are going to go up in his 2nd contract.  We will have less money for free agency and will have to rely on draft pics/rookie contracts. But it's a double edge sword, if we bring in rookies now, we will have them for the duration of their contract at those salaries, which helps in the future.  I appreciate your comments, they are thought provoking and it boils down, in my mind, do you think we can win this year and can a veteran help us.

I think the keys to keeping a successful championship team that has a franchise quarterback revolve around a few points. The first point is to avoid overpaying players especially receivers. Nowadays talented receivers are rather commonplace and a franchise quarterback can make those receivers look even better. The second point is to build a talented defense to keep you competitive even if your quarterback is struggling. The third point is to adjust to whatever talent is on the team and successfully game plan for it.

[Jason_]

I understand your opinion, but I have seen many cases where a known veteran has been acquired for a high draft pick to fill a specific need. Case in point, the Colts gave up a second round draft pick for an aging Booger McFarland who was absolutely instrumental in our Super Bowl season but not effective thereafter. He, like Freeney, was a known quantity, as he played for Dungy in TB. That pick up and Rob Morris moving to sam were huge reasons our D stepped up in the post season, as has been discussed on this post. A draft pick is a gamble with high risk and reward. But given the Trent deal, I have to wonder if the Colts value them as much as you and I do.

Freeney is 34. McFarland was 29 when the colts traded for him. That's a pretty significant difference imo.

[Jason_]

I agree that bringing on Freeney would only be a smart move if we think that will put us over the top.  Luck is in the 3rd year of a 4 year deal (5th optional) which means our cap $'s are going to go up in his 2nd contract.  We will have less money for free agency and will have to rely on draft pics/rookie contracts. But it's a double edge sword, if we bring in rookies now, we will have them for the duration of their contract at those salaries, which helps in the future.  I appreciate your comments, they are thought provoking and it boils down, in my mind, do you think we can win this year and can a veteran help us.

 

I'll throw a different name out there though.  Now I'm not saying this team would have any interest but if I'm told, as GM, to trade for an experienced, proven vet pass rusher, then Tamba Hali would be near the top of my list of considerations.  He's 30, so 4 years younger than Freeney and KC just spent a 1st round pick on Dee Ford.  Looks like he only has one more year on his contract so trading him away wouldn't totally blow up KC's cap with dead money.  

[cm43sports]

I'll throw a different name out there though.  Now I'm not saying this team would have any interest but if I'm told, as GM, to trade for an experienced, proven vet pass rusher, then Tamba Hali would be near the top of my list of considerations.  He's 30, so 4 years younger than Freeney and KC just spent a 1st round pick on Dee Ford.  Looks like he only has one more year on his contract so trading him away wouldn't totally blow up KC's cap with dead money.  

I'd trade a second round pick for Justin Houston. He's in the last year of his contract and reportedly were not close to a new contract. In addition, as pointed out, they have Hali and Ford. He's a younger player and is rather versatile. He's a premier pass-rusher at the age of 25. He is also adept at dropping back into coverage and plays the run well.

[Jason_]

I'd trade a second round pick for Justin Houston. He's in the last year of his contract and reportedly were not close to a new contract. In addition, as pointed out, they have Hali and Ford. He's a younger player and is rather versatile. He's a premier pass-rusher at the age of 25. He is also adept at dropping back into coverage and plays the run well.

 

I could be wrong here, but I'm thinking a 25 year old, premiere pass rusher that can also drop into coverage and play the run well is going to command a bit more than just a 2nd round pick.

[Reddog]

Freeney is 34. McFarland was 29 when the colts traded for him. That's a pretty significant difference imo.

Understood, but McFarland only played 11 games for us in 2006 and was done.  He was an "old" 29, but worth the draft pick because of his contributions to a world championship.

[cm43sports]

I could be wrong here, but I'm thinking a 25 year old, premiere pass rusher that can also drop into coverage and play the run well is going to command a bit more than just a 2nd round pick.

Perhaps but he's a free agent at the end of the season. At that point, the Chiefs would have to franchise him, which I can't imagine they would like to do, given the fact they have Hali and just drafted Ford.

[mintor]

Is there a defense that works without a pass rush?

 

I think we might need to win a couple of games if we are going to contend. The D hasn't been the problem IMO

 

 

Jags off wait to we play better teams have win against them .  one win think it's the superbowl .