Pat Angerer?

[Coffeedrinker]

Excellent post. Sums it up quite nicely.

 

I will say, though, that I've seen Bethea get beat by tight ends more often this year than I am used to. And while he's never been great at covering receivers one on one, this year he's been terrible at tracking the ball in the air and making a play on it, either running himself out of the play or falling down. When you play a safety in the deep half or third of the field, and he can get himself into position, you expect him to affect the play. Bethea hasn't done a good job of that this year.

Could be.  I definitely do not get to rewatch games as much as I used to (kids and all).  But I remember in 2005, 2006 somewhere around there at least there was a game where Bethea got beat by a WR deep in the endzone, he mis timed his jump, let the WR get behind him etc. and the announcer said soemthing to the effect of "That doesn't happen often to Bethea."  And I remember thinking at the time, what is he talking about, it happens several times a year to Bethea.

 

As to his struggles against TE and I agree he has struggled a bit more against them this year.  I just don't think it's because he has "lost a step." or a "bit long in the tooth" or any of the cliches most fans use.  I think it's because the TE position is changing where there is getting to be more of the Tony Gonzalez/Jimmy Graham type TEs and fewer of the Dwayne Allen type.  It's still early enough in that transition where Bethea still covers 90% of the TEs effectively, IMO.

[Mameluc]

Could be.  I definitely do not get to rewatch games as much as I used to (kids and all).  But I remember in 2005, 2006 somewhere around there at least there was a game where Bethea got beat by a WR deep in the endzone, he mis timed his jump, let the WR get behind him etc. and the announcer said soemthing to the effect of "That doesn't happen often to Bethea."  And I remember thinking at the time, what is he talking about, it happens several times a year to Bethea.

 

As to his struggles against TE and I agree he has struggled a bit more against them this year.  I just don't think it's because he has "lost a step." or a "bit long in the tooth" or any of the cliches most fans use.  I think it's because the TE position is changing where there is getting to be more of the Tony Gonzalez/Jimmy Graham type TEs and fewer of the Dwayne Allen type.  It's still early enough in that transition where Bethea still covers 90% of the TEs effectively, IMO.

it was randy moss, vs the colts...deep pass that bethea had good coverage but just mistimed his jump ...also it was a perfect pass from brady..and is randy moss.

[Superman]

Could be.  I definitely do not get to rewatch games as much as I used to (kids and all).  But I remember in 2005, 2006 somewhere around there at least there was a game where Bethea got beat by a WR deep in the endzone, he mis timed his jump, let the WR get behind him etc. and the announcer said soemthing to the effect of "That doesn't happen often to Bethea."  And I remember thinking at the time, what is he talking about, it happens several times a year to Bethea.

 

As to his struggles against TE and I agree he has struggled a bit more against them this year.  I just don't think it's because he has "lost a step." or a "bit long in the tooth" or any of the cliches most fans use.  I think it's because the TE position is changing where there is getting to be more of the Tony Gonzalez/Jimmy Graham type TEs and fewer of the Dwayne Allen type.  It's still early enough in that transition where Bethea still covers 90% of the TEs effectively, IMO.

 

Against TEs, I'm not talking about the outstanding guys at the position. I'm talking about getting beat off the line by Ryan Griffin, a slow TE who was third on the depth chart at the beginning of the season and had five catches coming into Sunday's game. He blew right past Bethea on a seam route, and finished with 6 catches for 62 yards (not all on Bethea). He's much more Dwayne Allen than he is Jimmy Graham (probably less athletic than Allen, but about three inches taller).

 

When I think back, maybe I'm holding it against Bethea that he got beat by guys like Charles Clay and Julius Thomas, who are evidently better than anyone expected them to be.

 

Either way, we need our safeties to be able to cover TEs. No one can cover Jimmy Graham, but we shouldn't be susceptible to Ryan Griffin. Right now, Bethea is. So whether he's lost a step or not, whatever the reason is, he's not holding up his end in coverage. He's a long time Colt and has played well for us, so I don't mean to pick on him. But when the season is over and we're deciding who to keep and who to let go, I don't think I'd be in favor of keeping Bethea. We need more of a new generation safety.

[Coffeedrinker]

it was randy moss, vs the colts...deep pass that bethea had good coverage but just mistimed his jump ...also it was a perfect pass from brady..and is randy moss.

Very well could be.  Although did Moss play with the Pats in 2005/2006  I didn't think he joined the Pats until 2007 and Moss's TD catch in that game was a short one, inside the 5.  But yes that kind of shows my point, it's been happening to Bethea for years.

[Coffeedrinker]

Against TEs, I'm not talking about the outstanding guys at the position. I'm talking about getting beat off the line by Ryan Griffin, a slow TE who was third on the depth chart at the beginning of the season and had five catches coming into Sunday's game. He blew right past Bethea on a seam route, and finished with 6 catches for 62 yards (not all on Bethea). He's much more Dwayne Allen than he is Jimmy Graham (probably less athletic than Allen, but about three inches taller).

 

When I think back, maybe I'm holding it against Bethea that he got beat by guys like Charles Clay and Julius Thomas, who are evidently better than anyone expected them to be.

 

Either way, we need our safeties to be able to cover TEs. No one can cover Jimmy Graham, but we shouldn't be susceptible to Ryan Griffin. Right now, Bethea is. So whether he's lost a step or not, whatever the reason is, he's not holding up his end in coverage. He's a long time Colt and has played well for us, so I don't mean to pick on him. But when the season is over and we're deciding who to keep and who to let go, I don't think I'd be in favor of keeping Bethea. We need more of a new generation safety.

Completely disagree(not about Griffin beating him about signing him in the offseason).  I am glad we are not on the committee to make that decision, I doubt if we'd get a consensus.

[Mameluc]

Very well could be.  Although did Moss play with the Pats in 2005/2006  I didn't think he joined the Pats until 2007 and Moss's TD catch in that game was a short one, inside the 5.  But yes that kind of shows my point, it's been happening to Bethea for years.

cant remember the year but it was on a game we were losing fairly quickly and we started a come back...maybe it was the 4th and 2/3 game?

[GoColts8818]

Patty Ang to IR. Welp. A healthy scratch!?

I heard yesterday that "healthy scratch" was relative for Angerer because he always has something wrong with him it's just normally not enough to be thought of as an injury to have to go on the injury report.  Yeah I don't fully understand that one either.  The general feeling seemed to be he's just gotten beaten up in this league and he's not the same player he was just two years ago.  I think he'll be gone after this season. 

[Superman]

Completely disagree(not about Griffin beating him about signing him in the offseason).  I am glad we are not on the committee to make that decision, I doubt if we'd get a consensus.

 

That's why committees usually consist of more than two people.

 

It's fair to disagree. We have before; we will again. I just don't want you to think that I just enjoy criticizing Bethea. If he had another year on his deal, I wouldn't be advocating releasing him. But as he's a free agent, the decision is about whether we should recommit to him. That's a different story entirely.

[HtownColt]

So to prove the poing htown quotes and announcer? I totally agree that Landry and Bethea have a lot of similar skills and I agree the two together make the safety position a position of strength for the Colts. That does not mean they switch responsibilities. I am not trying to say it's like the old days where the SS has run responsibility and running back and that is it. But Bethea is the strong safety, his responsibilities are that of a strong safety, Landry is the FS, his responsibilities are that of a FS. They don't switch... just because both can do both things does not mean they switch. I will say because I don't really think it's worth arguing over, I am probably being too semantical (is that a word) that during the game sometimes both are asked to cover the run, cover WRs, cover TEs. Although I have not seen Landry on a blitz.

Lastly bleedblu, I agree 3-4 years ago Bethea's coverage was pretty good and it still is pretty good. He can cover most TEs and RBs but he has never been able to cover WRs well, especially fast WRs. Comparing his coverage skills with Doss does not really make your case. Doss, IMO was a good SS and I liked him a lot even though he was from Ohio State, 20 years ago he would have been a great SS but he did not have the speed and agility to cover TEs and RBs of the "modern" NFL. Bethea has been better than Doss at coverage from day one. But he has never been on an Ed Reed, Troy P., or even and Eric Weddle level of coverage.

Quoted Laron Landry as well straight from the horse's mouth, Rich Gannon just broke it down to you from a QB perspective

[Stephen]

^{so they were saving conner and mcnary for this very occasion.}