Most Useless player on each team for 2012

[Qwiz]

I think Sanchez makes it to week 9-10 before the change is made but his days are numbered

[southwest1]

Everybody say what they want but the most useless player in the entire NFL is still a better player than anyone sitting at home blogging about who is the most useless......

I know I'd love to make that "end of the pine" money.......

[Superman]

If they wait that long they better kiss their playoff chances goodbye hahaha.

How do you figure that? They've gone to the playoffs twice with Sanchez, and for all his faults, he's still a better quarterback than Tebow.

[Gammadoom]

A better *quarterback*? Maybe. Then again, using the playoffs as a measuring stick probably isn't the best way to make your argument since Tebow took his team last year as well. Demaryus Thomas just abused Ike Taylor in that playoff game, so I'm not giving Tebow all of the credit, but he certainly had some flashes there as well.

[Superman]

A better *quarterback*? Maybe. Then again, using the playoffs as a measuring stick probably isn't the best way to make your argument since Tebow took his team last year as well. Demaryus Thomas just abused Ike Taylor in that playoff game, so I'm not giving Tebow all of the credit, but he certainly had some flashes there as well.

I'm not comparing Sanchez's playoff appearances to Tebow's. I'm saying that the Jets have been to the playoffs twice with Sanchez, so the suggestion that they can't make the playoffs with him is curious to me.

Me saying that Sanchez is a better quarterback has nothing to do with whether he's been to the playoffs or not. Cam Newton is a better quarterback. Colt McCoy is a better quarterback. Sam Bradford is a better quarterback.

[Gammadoom]

I'm not comparing Sanchez's playoff appearances to Tebow's. I'm saying that the Jets have been to the playoffs twice with Sanchez, so the suggestion that they can't make the playoffs with him is curious to me.

Me saying that Sanchez is a better quarterback has nothing to do with whether he's been to the playoffs or not. Cam Newton is a better quarterback. Colt McCoy is a better quarterback. Sam Bradford is a better quarterback.

I wasn't saying that I disagree with you, I was just a little mistaken in what I thought you meant with your playoff reference and wanted more clarification on how you were measuring these guys.

Would you say that those guys are better "football players"? Or (with the exception of Cam obviously) "athletes"? Better prototypical quarterbacks for sure, but I can't say that I wouldn't want Tebow behind the line of scrimmage with the ball in his hands with the game on the line.

I just realized how much my argument sounds like the Vince Young argument from many years ago and how much that invalidates almost everything that I've just typed...

[Qwiz]

How do you figure that? They've gone to the playoffs twice with Sanchez, and for all his faults, he's still a better quarterback than Tebow.

Eh, better passer, yes, better leader and natural-born winner, not really. He's sort of like Big Ben Roethlisberger...His defense makes him look good. Plus the dude was already a * when it came to dedication and effort, and now that Tebow's in town, he's going to be looking over his shoulder even more and throwing passes that should not be thrown and committing turnovers...Wow that was a long sentence. Lol but yeah, he now has unwanted pressure on his shoulders, and every little mistake he makes will lead to a Tebow Uprising. I'd rather have Tebow in the playoffs than Sanchez, but maybe that's just me.

[Superman]

I wasn't saying that I disagree with you, I was just a little mistaken in what I thought you meant with your playoff reference and wanted more clarification on how you were measuring these guys.

Would you say that those guys are better "football players"? Or (with the exception of Cam obviously) "athletes"? Better prototypical quarterbacks for sure, but I can't say that I wouldn't want Tebow behind the line of scrimmage with the ball in his hands with the game on the line.

I just realized how much my argument sounds like the Vince Young argument from many years ago and how much that invalidates almost everything that I've just typed...

I don't know how to quantify what makes one quarterback a better "football player" than another quarterback. Tebow might be able to play tight end, so maybe that makes him a better football player. But he's a quarterback, and he's not as good at it as Sanchez. Tebow is a better athlete than Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and so on. He's not as good a quarterback, and since that's his position, the "football player" designation is really moot. At least to me.

Your Vince Young comparison is telling, but I do think Tebow is better than Vince Young.

Also, I don't mean to discount the intangibles that Tebow brings, but I think they're overblown. In the NFL, your quarterback needs to be able to complete more than 50% of his passes, particularly in the playoffs. He has to be able to stand in the pocket and make intermediate throws through tight windows. Tebow can't do that. Intangibles through the roof, but he can't make the throws, and that's what quarterbacking boils down to.

[Superman]

Eh, better passer, yes, better leader and natural-born winner, not really. He's sort of like Big Ben Roethlisberger...His defense makes him look good. Plus the dude was already a * when it came to dedication and effort, and now that Tebow's in town, he's going to be looking over his shoulder even more and throwing passes that should not be thrown and committing turnovers...Wow that was a long sentence. Lol but yeah, he now has unwanted pressure on his shoulders, and every little mistake he makes will lead to a Tebow Uprising. I'd rather have Tebow in the playoffs than Sanchez, but maybe that's just me.

I don't get it.

Sanchez in the playoffs: 6 games, 60.5% completions, 192.5 yards/game, 9 touchdowns, 3 interceptions, 94.3 passer rating, 0 rushing touchdowns.

Tebow in the playoffs: 2 games, 40.4% completions, 226 yards/game, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, 90.0 passer rating, 1 rushing touchdown.

And you talk about how Sanchez's defense made him look better, but give no credit to the Broncos defense in those wins last season. Especially the comebacks.

[Qwiz]

I don't get it.

Sanchez in the playoffs: 6 games, 60.5% completions, 192.5 yards/game, 9 touchdowns, 3 interceptions, 94.3 passer rating, 0 rushing touchdowns.

Tebow in the playoffs: 2 games, 40.4% completions, 226 yards/game, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, 90.0 passer rating, 1 rushing touchdown.

And you talk about how Sanchez's defense made him look better, but give no credit to the Broncos defense in those wins last season. Especially the comebacks.

You just said it yourself...Sanchez has 3 interceptions in the playoffs, whereas Tebow has none. Sanchez will naturally have more touchdowns because he has played in more playoff games...but his 192.5 yard average is still lower than Tebow's 226. Their passer rating is darn near identical...Tebow's stats actually look kind of better than Sanchez's. The Broncos defense was, if I'm not mistaken, 1-4 before Tebow came in on offense. No, Tebow is not perfect, but he knows how to win games.

[Gammadoom]

I don't know how to quantify what makes one quarterback a better "football player" than another quarterback. Tebow might be able to play tight end, so maybe that makes him a better football player. But he's a quarterback, and he's not as good at it as Sanchez. Tebow is a better athlete than Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and so on. He's not as good a quarterback, and since that's his position, the "football player" designation is really moot. At least to me.

Your Vince Young comparison is telling, but I do think Tebow is better than Vince Young.

Also, I don't mean to discount the intangibles that Tebow brings, but I think they're overblown. In the NFL, your quarterback needs to be able to complete more than 50% of his passes, particularly in the playoffs. He has to be able to stand in the pocket and make intermediate throws through tight windows. Tebow can't do that. Intangibles through the roof, but he can't make the throws, and that's what quarterbacking boils down to.

That's exactly what you want of a quarterback in a typical NFL offense. I think we saw that modifying your plan to fit his skill set is a recipe for some sort of success. The guys that play the other side of the ball certainly had something to do with it, so don't take this as me giving him credit for more than he did.

I just wonder if, once (if ever) he achieves the 50%+ completion mark, whether it then becomes a case of him needing to get to 60%. I'm drawing lose comparisons to some of the talking heads and football fans saying "Peyton Manning has a ring, but he needs another to really cement his legacy". From my point of view, Tim Tebow is probably the most polarizing player in the NFL since Jim McMahon. I can't say that I've had a football conversation with a fan from any team that didn't have a strong opinion of Tebow one way or the other. What do you think he would have to accomplish in order for people to consider him a real quarterback?

[Gammadoom]

You just said it yourself...Sanchez has 3 interceptions in the playoffs, whereas Tebow has none. Sanchez will naturally have more touchdowns because he has played in more playoff games...but his 192.5 yard average is still lower than Tebow's 226. Their passer rating is darn near identical...Tebow's stats actually look kind of better than Sanchez's. The Broncos defense was, if I'm not mistaken, 1-4 before Tebow came in on offense. No, Tebow is not perfect, but he knows how to win games.

Those stats are pretty misleading though. Demaryus Thomas made Ike Taylor look like a high school player in the Steelers game and I'm pretty sure Curtis Painter could have put up the same stat line. It also seems that you've also kind of skewed the stats to fit your argument:

"Of course he's going to have more touchdowns because he's played in more games" is a statement that you made, but you didn't apply that to the interceptions as well.

There's no arguing that Tebow wins games. Keep in mind that's also one of the main things people said about Vince Young (that's the last VY reference, I promise).

[Superman]

You just said it yourself...Sanchez has 3 interceptions in the playoffs, whereas Tebow has none. Sanchez will naturally have more touchdowns because he has played in more playoff games...but his 192.5 yard average is still lower than Tebow's 226. Their passer rating is darn near identical...Tebow's stats actually look kind of better than Sanchez's. The Broncos defense was, if I'm not mistaken, 1-4 before Tebow came in on offense. No, Tebow is not perfect, but he knows how to win games.

So, more games means more touchdowns, but it doesn't mean more interceptions?

The Broncos defense wasn't anything, they were one unit of a team.

The whole line that Tebow knows how to win games is a cute throwaway line, but it doesn't mean anything. If your quarterback can't complete more than 40.4% of his passes in the playoffs, you are not going to have success in the postseason.

And again, my original objection was to the idea that the Jets can't make the playoffs with Sanchez, even though they've been to the playoffs with him twice. That kind of conclusion flies in the face of logic.

[Qwiz]

Those stats are pretty misleading though. Demaryus Thomas made Ike Taylor look like a high school player in the Steelers game and I'm pretty sure Curtis Painter could have put up the same stat line. It also seems that you've also kind of skewed the stats to fit your argument:

"Of course he's going to have more touchdowns because he's played in more games" is a statement that you made, but you didn't apply that to the interceptions as well.

There's no arguing that Tebow wins games. Keep in mind that's also one of the main things people said about Vince Young (that's the last VY reference, I promise).

True, but Tebow had only 4 interceptions this past season...He's just someone who is either very careful with the ball or someone who can use his legs to get wins without passing...or a combination of both lol. He just isn't an interception-thrower. Sanchez, however, has been akin to Tony Romo when it comes to messing things up at the worst time. And the Curtis Painter thing....No, no. Hahaha that guy probably couldn't win a game if his life depended on it, even with wide open receivers. People have been wary about Young's attitude as wel...The guy is not all there. That is one of the many reasons that Houston did not draft him in 2006. Tebow is something else entirely.

[Qwiz]

So, more games means more touchdowns, but it doesn't mean more interceptions?

The Broncos defense wasn't anything, they were one unit of a team.

The whole line that Tebow knows how to win games is a cute throwaway line, but it doesn't mean anything. If your quarterback can't complete more than 40.4% of his passes in the playoffs, you are not going to have success in the postseason.

And again, my original objection was to the idea that the Jets can't make the playoffs with Sanchez, even though they've been to the playoffs with him twice. That kind of conclusion flies in the face of logic.

Were the Vikings able to make the Super Bowl with Favre, even though he had already been once? And on a less talented team? Playing Sanchez when you have Tebow is like driving your Volkswagen Beetle when you have a Ford Mustang. There is a reason that Tebow is still in the league. If the Patriots did not have such an explosive offense, then I believe Tebow would have had a chance. Give the guy an offseason to improve and then judge him. Everyone can get better. If he gets his passing skill up and couples that with what he does best, which is ball, then he will be likened to a sort of Cam Newton or Michael Vick of the AFC, something we have never seen before. And if you want to say that the Broncos defense won them games when Tebow was playing, you have to also remember that it is the exact same defense that was on the field when Kyle Orton, a much better prototypical passer, was playing.

[Superman]

That's exactly what you want of a quarterback in a typical NFL offense. I think we saw that modifying your plan to fit his skill set is a recipe for some sort of success. The guys that play the other side of the ball certainly had something to do with it, so don't take this as me giving him credit for more than he did.

I just wonder if, once (if ever) he achieves the 50%+ completion mark, whether it then becomes a case of him needing to get to 60%. I'm drawing lose comparisons to some of the talking heads and football fans saying "Peyton Manning has a ring, but he needs another to really cement his legacy". From my point of view, Tim Tebow is probably the most polarizing player in the NFL since Jim McMahon. I can't say that I've had a football conversation with a fan from any team that didn't have a strong opinion of Tebow one way or the other. What do you think he would have to accomplish in order for people to consider him a real quarterback?

I don't have strong feelings for or against Tebow. I dislike the media characterization of him as someone who "wins football games." I think that's nonsense. Maybe not you, but tons of people do give him too much credit. Teams win games. He definitely has intangible qualities that help his team win, but especially during their streak last season, the defense came up big, special teams came up big, the other team made stupid mistakes, etc., things that had nothing to do with Tebow. I don't take things like win/loss records in a vacuum.

As for my 50% comment, that's not the magic mark. Actually, if I was putting a number on it, it would probably be higher than 50%, but the fact that 50% would be an improvement for Tebow is telling. Alex Smith is at 53% through two playoffs games, with five touchdowns and no interceptions. Better than Tebow. Joe Flacco is at 54%. Both of them still have tons of work to do to be the kind of quarterback their team can rely on in the playoffs. So does Tebow. The difference is that I don't think Tebow has the tools -- particularly with regard to the way he throws -- to be that kind of quarterback. I simply don't think he can make the throws.

I'm not interested in moving the goalposts on him. I really don't care whether he's "a winner" or just an overrated media sensation. But what I would look for from him would be the ability to consistently make the intermediate throws that NFL offenses rely on. He can throw the ball deep, especially when the line gives him a little time. He can make the short throws and the slants, provided he's not going through progressions. But the deep ins or deep outs, the post, the hook, the seam route, those are the throws that NFL quarterbacks have to make, especially against good defenses in the playoffs, and Tebow hasn't shown the ability to make them.

[Superman]

True, but Tebow had only 4 interceptions this past season...He's just someone who is either very careful with the ball or someone who can use his legs to get wins without passing...or a combination of both lol. He just isn't an interception-thrower. Sanchez, however, has been akin to Tony Romo when it comes to messing things up at the worst time. And the Curtis Painter thing....No, no. Hahaha that guy probably couldn't win a game if his life depended on it, even with wide open receivers. People have been wary about Young's attitude as wel...The guy is not all there. That is one of the many reasons that Houston did not draft him in 2006. Tebow is something else entirely.

Tebow had 6 interceptions, but his low interceptions are partly due to the fact that he didn't throw the ball very much. The Broncos ran a run-heavy offense to take the pressure off his arm. His interception rate was good, though, 2.2%. Sanchez's interception rate was 3.3% (that drops down to 1.9% in the playoffs). But, generally speaking, the more you throw, the higher your interception rate goes. Still, Tebow did take better care of the ball than Sanchez did.

[Superman]

Were the Vikings able to make the Super Bowl with Favre, even though he had already been once? And on a less talented team?

???

I'm missing your point.

Playing Sanchez when you have Tebow is like driving your Volkswagen Beetle when you have a Ford Mustang.

Oh my.

There is a reason that Tebow is still in the league. If the Patriots did not have such an explosive offense, then I believe Tebow would have had a chance.

That's exactly why you need your quarterback to complete passes at a higher percentage than 40.4%, because you face teams like the Patriots in the playoffs.

Give the guy an offseason to improve and then judge him. Everyone can get better. If he gets his passing skill up and couples that with what he does best, which is ball, then he will be likened to a sort of Cam Newton or Michael Vick of the AFC, something we have never seen before.

I'm not clairvoyant. I don't know whether he'll get better or worse, or stay the same. If he gets better -- and that's a significant IF -- I'll have no problem acknowledging his improvement. As for right now, he has serious limitations to his game. And they are basically the same limitations he had as a freshman at Florida, and when he was drafted. So I'm not exactly dropping money on the prospect that he's going to develop into an effective passer going forward, although he very well could.

As for the comparison to Vick and Newton, no one ever questioned whether those guys could make the intermediate throws.

And if you want to say that the Broncos defense won them games when Tebow was playing, you have to also remember that it is the exact same defense that was on the field when Kyle Orton, a much better prototypical passer, was playing.

If you can't understand the impact the defense -- and special teams, and mistakes from the other team -- had on the Broncos' run last season, then I don't know what to say. I can't imagine that you can honestly disagree that without the defense making big plays to turn those games, "Tebow Time" wouldn't have existed.

[Qwiz]

???

I'm missing your point.

Oh my.

That's exactly why you need your quarterback to complete passes at a higher percentage than 40.4%, because you face teams like the Patriots in the playoffs.

I'm not clairvoyant. I don't know whether he'll get better or worse, or stay the same. If he gets better -- and that's a significant IF -- I'll have no problem acknowledging his improvement. As for right now, he has serious limitations to his game. And they are basically the same limitations he had as a freshman at Florida, and when he was drafted. So I'm not exactly dropping money on the prospect that he's going to develop into an effective passer going forward, although he very well could.

As for the comparison to Vick and Newton, no one ever questioned whether those guys could make the intermediate throws.

If you can't understand the impact the defense -- and special teams, and mistakes from the other team -- had on the Broncos' run last season, then I don't know what to say. I can't imagine that you can honestly disagree that without the defense making big plays to turn those games, "Tebow Time" wouldn't have existed.

[Superman]

The Favre reference was a response to you assuming that the Jets could make the playoffs with Sanchez again just because they have done it before.

The Vikings did make the playoffs with Favre. No one said anything about the Super Bowl for the Jets and Sanchez, but while we're at it, they've made the AFC Championship twice with him, something the Broncos didn't do with Tebow. And the Jets beat the Patriots in 2010 on the strength of Sanchez's best playoff performance, the same team that trounced the Broncos, while Tebow went 9/26.

Tebow became the legend that he is while he was a player at Florida...those were some great years. If your quarterback can run with the ball in the playoffs as well, then you have nothing to worry about.

You do if he struggles making the staple throws of an NFL offense. Let him run all he wants. What is the offense going to do in the red zone?

With Tebow acting like a big fullback or something, you can get more options with the long ball, something Tebow is good at. When you have a 9-man front on every play, it will not matter whether you are in a 3rd and long situation or 4th and 2...Either way, the pass will get you the yardage needed. And if the defense decides to spread the secondary, then Tebow is more than capable of outrunning any lineman or backer. Corner blitzes are also out of question, as Tebow has proven that he can run over DBs.

So then how did the Patriots hold them to 10 points, with Tebow completing 34.6% of his throws for an average of 5.2 yards per attempt? You're painting a picture of the Tebow Offense as unstoppable, and it's clearly anything but. His physical attributes are impressive, but he is lacking in the qualities that you need from an NFL quarterback.

Newton was questioned severely when it came to passing...People said he was the next Vince Young, or Michael Vick without the passing skills...And we all see what he made those who criticized him look like.

People stereotyped Newton, for a variety of reasons, but not many questioned whether he could make the intermediate throws in the NFL. Furthermore, he's shown that he can, in the NFL. Tebow has been in the NFL for two years, has played in 23 games, and has attempted 399 passes. And the consensus is that he CANNOT make those intermediate throws that you need to make in the NFL.

He's not a rookie with question marks. The question has largely been answered to this point: he can't make those throws. It's up to him to change the answer, and he can't do that with is legs or with his personality.

And if all these mistakes from the other team and special plays were what made Tebow win, then someone of higher power is apparently on his side, and whatever that force may be, it wants him to win, and that may be all that matters. Luck does not come to a 1-4 team out of the blue when they decide to start another, non-passing quarterback.

That higher power wants him to win, up until the divisional round. At least Mark Sanchez's higher power doesn't run out of juice until the conference championship.

[Qwiz]

The Vikings did make the playoffs with Favre. No one said anything about the Super Bowl for the Jets and Sanchez, but while we're at it, they've made the AFC Championship twice with him, something the Broncos didn't do with Tebow. And the Jets beat the Patriots in 2010 on the strength of Sanchez's best playoff performance, the same team that trounced the Broncos, while Tebow went 9/26.

You do if he struggles making the staple throws of an NFL offense. Let him run all he wants. What is the offense going to do in the red zone?

So then how did the Patriots hold them to 10 points, with Tebow completing 34.6% of his throws for an average of 5.2 yards per attempt? You're painting a picture of the Tebow Offense as unstoppable, and it's clearly anything but. His physical attributes are impressive, but he is lacking in the qualities that you need from an NFL quarterback.

People stereotyped Newton, for a variety of reasons, but not many questioned whether he could make the intermediate throws in the NFL. Furthermore, he's shown that he can, in the NFL. Tebow has been in the NFL for two years, has played in 23 games, and has attempted 399 passes. And the consensus is that he CANNOT make those intermediate throws that you need to make in the NFL.

He's not a rookie with question marks. The question has largely been answered to this point: he can't make those throws. It's up to him to change the answer, and he can't do that with is legs or with his personality.

That higher power wants him to win, up until the divisional round. At least Mark Sanchez's higher power doesn't run out of juice until the conference championship.

Of course the Vikings made the playoffs with Favre. But that was not my point. Say what you want about Sanchez and the Patriots, but it was a one-score game, and if not for Brady's interception at the start of the game, more than likely he would have won it. Again, Sanchez gets his momentum behind a monster defense. He is a subpar quarterback. And you're kidding me about the redzone part, right? Tebow in the redzone is what offensive coordinators want. There are so many options there, though I admit that it does narrow down the passing opportunities. His offense is not unstoppable, but it is different, and defenses get headaches when they think about facing dual-threat quarterbacks, something that Tebow is. This past season was Tebow's first one as a full-time starter, and he was, if you will, a rookie. Like all rookies, he will improve, but the facade of Sanchez being the starter will hinder him in training camp. If he gets the reps with the starters, and he continues on his mechanics, then, like every other person who has played quarterback, he will be able to make the right throws. Mark Sanchez's higher power kept him out of the playoffs this season and influenced his head coach to make a pull for another quarterback, who is sure to be his downfall. Tebow's higher power got him celebrity status, a playoff win against a defensive power, and another chance to start in the NFL. And we both know that that is exactly what is going to happen by the end of this season.

[Superman]

Of course the Vikings made the playoffs with Favre. But that was not my point. Say what you want about Sanchez and the Patriots, but it was a one-score game, and if not for Brady's interception at the start of the game, more than likely he would have won it. Again, Sanchez gets his momentum behind a monster defense. He is a subpar quarterback.

You're parsing details. Tebow "is a winner," but the Jets only won because the defense played well and Brady threw a pick. Come on, you're playing both sides here.

And you're kidding me about the redzone part, right? Tebow in the redzone is what offensive coordinators want. There are so many options there, though I admit that it does narrow down the passing opportunities. His offense is not unstoppable, but it is different, and defenses get headaches when they think about facing dual-threat quarterbacks, something that Tebow is.

No way. Coaches want quarterbacks who can throw accurate passes to open receivers, who can make reads, who can go through their progressions, and who don't have to scramble. Especially in the red zone.

This past season was Tebow's first one as a full-time starter, and he was, if you will, a rookie.

No, he was not. No more than Aaron Rodgers was a rookie in 2008. Tebow was a second year player, one with a ton of experience to gain, and a ton of improvement to make. A second year player is not by any means a finished product, so he gets plenty of leeway there. But stop trying to push him off as a rookie. He wasn't.

Like all rookies, he will improve,

All rookies don't improve.

but the facade of Sanchez being the starter will hinder him in training camp. If he gets the reps with the starters, and he continues on his mechanics, then, like every other person who has played quarterback, he will be able to make the right throws. Mark Sanchez's higher power kept him out of the playoffs this season and influenced his head coach to make a pull for another quarterback, who is sure to be his downfall. Tebow's higher power got him celebrity status, a playoff win against a defensive power, and another chance to start in the NFL. And we both know that that is exactly what is going to happen by the end of this season.

I don't know what is going to happen by the end of this season, and unless you're especially gifted, neither do you. I know that Sanchez is the starter, he just got a $40 million extension, and he's the quarterback that was taking the snaps the last time the Jets had any postseason success.

[Qwiz]

You're parsing details. Tebow "is a winner," but the Jets only won because the defense played well and Brady threw a pick. Come on, you're playing both sides here.

No way. Coaches want quarterbacks who can throw accurate passes to open receivers, who can make reads, who can go through their progressions, and who don't have to scramble. Especially in the red zone.

No, he was not. No more than Aaron Rodgers was a rookie in 2008. Tebow was a second year player, one with a ton of experience to gain, and a ton of improvement to make. A second year player is not by any means a finished product, so he gets plenty of leeway there. But stop trying to push him off as a rookie. He wasn't.

All rookies don't improve.

I don't know what is going to happen by the end of this season, and unless you're especially gifted, neither do you. I know that Sanchez is the starter, he just got a $40 million extension, and he's the quarterback that was taking the snaps the last time the Jets had any postseason success.

Brady is a winner as well. When he does not play well, his team suffers. Surely you of all people know what it is like for a team to have a single, major piece go down, and then, inexplicably, the entire team goes down as well. Most offenses, contrary to the pass-happy times of this NFL era, will run in the redzone, especially teams like the 2011 Broncos. What are you going to read 5 yards from the endzone? The corner is backpedaling, the receiver is covered...the second receiver is also covered...there are two safeties on your tight end, and the linebackers are dropping back in coverage as well? Passing is not a very easy thing to do in the redzone, and even if it was, having a quarterback like Newton, Tebow, or Griffin will definitely open things up. The D will not know whether to play the pass or the run, and it will result in one team's success and the other's chaos. A lot of rookies, quarterbacks anyway, do not play until year two or three, whereas some will be lucky enough to see at least a few downs in a few games in their rookie year. Is that not what happened with Tebow? He played, what, three games, and at the end of the season? No, not all rookies improve, but the ones with the intangibles do. The ones with perserverance do. The ones with dedication and attention to the task at hand do. Tebow fits into that category as well, even if he is a third-year player. The last time the Broncos had postseason success Tebow was taking snaps...Now it is Manning. He has replaced him. It happens sometimes. It wouldn't be coincidental that the man the fans love and who was replaced himself will be doing some replacing this season. Tebow has had the most recent playoff success, while Sanchez was on his couch eating a hotdog somewhere in New York or California. But we will just have to wait and see what happens. After those first three interceptions in one or two games are caught, Tebow will be beaming and knowing that his chance is, again, coming.

[Superman]

Brady is a winner as well. When he does not play well, his team suffers. Surely you of all people know what it is like for a team to have a single, major piece go down, and then, inexplicably, the entire team goes down as well.

You'll find any reason why the Jets won that game, other than the three touchdowns and zero interceptions that Sanchez was responsible for. And you refuse to acknowledge the 10 points the Broncos were held to against the Patriots.

Most offenses, contrary to the pass-happy times of this NFL era, will run in the redzone, especially teams like the 2011 Broncos.

Maybe that explains why the Broncos were scoring a blistering 19 points every week, while those silly pass happy teams like the Packers, Pats and Saints were scoring a paltry 30+ per game. The 2011 Broncos are the standard by which offensive excellence is measured.

What are you going to read 5 yards from the endzone? The corner is backpedaling, the receiver is covered...the second receiver is also covered...there are two safeties on your tight end, and the linebackers are dropping back in coverage as well? Passing is not a very easy thing to do in the redzone, and even if it was, having a quarterback like Newton, Tebow, or Griffin will definitely open things up. The D will not know whether to play the pass or the run, and it will result in one team's success and the other's chaos.

Again, the Broncos scored 19.3 points per game.

The bold is precisely my point. Show me a quarterback who struggles making intermediate throws, and I'll show you a 19 point per game offense.

A lot of rookies, quarterbacks anyway, do not play until year two or three, whereas some will be lucky enough to see at least a few downs in a few games in their rookie year. Is that not what happened with Tebow? He played, what, three games, and at the end of the season?

Irrelevant. He wasn't a rookie last season.

No, not all rookies improve, but the ones with the intangibles do. The ones with perserverance do. The ones with dedication and attention to the task at hand do. Tebow fits into that category as well, even if he is a third-year player. The last time the Broncos had postseason success Tebow was taking snaps...

The last time the Jets had postseason success, Sanchez was taking the snaps, and they had more success than the Broncos did last season. You refuse to acknowledge that. And that's the only reason I said anything, because of your comment that the Jets can't make the playoffs with Sanchez. It's silly, given the historical facts.

Now it is Manning. He has replaced him. It happens sometimes. It wouldn't be coincidental that the man the fans love and who was replaced himself will be doing some replacing this season. Tebow has had the most recent playoff success, while Sanchez was on his couch eating a hotdog somewhere in New York or California. But we will just have to wait and see what happens. After those first three interceptions in one or two games are caught, Tebow will be beaming and knowing that his chance is, again, coming.

You know, you keep playing this angle, everything from your posts to your avatar. Tell me, what's a Texans fan doing on a Colts board with a denigrating Manning avatar?

[Qwiz]

You'll find any reason why the Jets won that game, other than the three touchdowns and zero interceptions that Sanchez was responsible for. And you refuse to acknowledge the 10 points the Broncos were held to against the Patriots.

Maybe that explains why the Broncos were scoring a blistering 19 points every week, while those silly pass happy teams like the Packers, Pats and Saints were scoring a paltry 30+ per game. The 2011 Broncos are the standard by which offensive excellence is measured.

Again, the Broncos scored 19.3 points per game.

The bold is precisely my point. Show me a quarterback who struggles making intermediate throws, and I'll show you a 19 point per game offense.

Irrelevant. He wasn't a rookie last season.

The last time the Jets had postseason success, Sanchez was taking the snaps, and they had more success than the Broncos did last season. You refuse to acknowledge that. And that's the only reason I said anything, because of your comment that the Jets can't make the playoffs with Sanchez. It's silly, given the historical facts.

You know, you keep playing this angle, everything from your posts to your avatar. Tell me, what's a Texans fan doing on a Colts board with a denigrating Manning avatar?

19 points still got them to the playoffs, and a win in the playoffs as well. I honestly would not care if my offense scored 4 points, as long as the opposing team only scores three. And who cares if I'm a Texans fan? There are Patriots fans and Chargers fans here as well, sticking up for their team just as much as I do. And how in the world is my avatar degenerating? It is no different than the guy who has a picture of Manning holding up a Broncos jersey...I like the Broncos and Manning is now a Bronco. My avatar is just a creative way of showing it.

[GoPats]

I was never sold on McCourty. What gives for his off year? Was he battling an injury and didn't tell anyone? Was he under too much pressure having to face the opponent's number 1 WR?

I think there were maybe three factors:

1. Teams sort of honed in on an apparent weakness of his. He seemed to get a little lost on corner routes and deep outs, and opposing WRs did a nice job of getting him turned around with his back to the QB. It was frustrating to watch at times... position-wise, he'd be OK, but he wouldn't get his hands up or turn his head to track the ball. Once this started happening it seemed like every team was taking three or four shots a game in his direction. It got better toward the end of the season and in the playoffs when he started taking snaps at safety.

2. I think, as a second-year guy, the lockout hurt his development badly.

3. He separated his shoulder early in the season and didn't seem like the same player again until later in the year.

I don't think McCourty is a top-tier CB, an elite guy. I think he's a pretty solid corner, more suited for a zone scheme.

Definitely not useless, but he does need to get past that sophmore slump!

[21isSuperman]

I think there were maybe three factors:

1. Teams sort of honed in on an apparent weakness of his. He seemed to get a little lost on corner routes and deep outs, and opposing WRs did a nice job of getting him turned around with his back to the QB. It was frustrating to watch at times... position-wise, he'd be OK, but he wouldn't get his hands up or turn his head to track the ball. Once this started happening it seemed like every team was taking three or four shots a game in his direction. It got better toward the end of the season and in the playoffs when he started taking snaps at safety.

2. I think, as a second-year guy, the lockout hurt his development badly.

3. He separated his shoulder early in the season and didn't seem like the same player again until later in the year.

I don't think McCourty is a top-tier CB, an elite guy. I think he's a pretty solid corner, more suited for a zone scheme.

Definitely not useless, but he does need to get past that sophmore slump!

I agree with you. I don't see an elite corner in McCourty, but I also don't see a guy who is useless.