S2 test: Stroud

[Solid84]

The Athletic made an article on the S2 test relating to Stroud - Link

 

Here's an interesting quote:  

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The league executives contacted for this story made it clear they didn't put much stock in Stroud's result from last spring, believing from the beginning that the score was suspect. Several confirmed that S2 flagged the result after it came in and that teams were informed it was "unreliable". (As part of its confidentiality agreement with teams, S2 does not publicly release scores and woould not comment on Stroud for the story).

 

And another quote relating to the above:

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The sense around the league: Stroud didn't give full effort. It's more plausible than it sounds. For top prospects like Stroud, the draft process is a day-in, day-out grind - four long months filled with on-field training, physical tests, written tests, a media gauntlet, the Senior Bowl in Mobile, the scouting combine in Indianapolis, private workouts with team and top-30 visits.

 

Seems several league execs were interviewed as well and they questioned the validity of the result because it didn't match watch the tape showed. They also said it's just ONE tool among many and a small part of the entire process.

[stitches]

To me all this sounds like revisionist history. There were TONS of reports at the time about how much teams valued the S2 test, how some execs were worried about his S2 scores... how he took it MULTIPLE TIMES in attempt to get better score(very far from the assumption that he didn't give full effort). 

 

It's OK if a test doesn't 100% predict performance. It's on those GMs and execs that they put so much weight on it. At the end of the day Stroud is just another datapoint in the dataset of 1000s players that took that test. And the discrepancy between his score and his performance might help further improve the correlation matrix. Maybe the certainty last year wasn't warranted and from now on teams and execs will read more carefully into what that test is saying and what it isn't saying and how much they should value it. 

 

My guess is... the pendulum might swing the other way too much(into completely devaluing the test). 

 

BTW I heard on a podcast that this year's QBs have been refusing to take the test precisely because of how Stroud was treated last year and teams are now * off because that test is not only used for evaluation purposes, but also for planning of future development. 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

To me all this sounds like revisionist history. There were TONS of reports at the time about how much teams valued the S2 test, how some execs were worried about his S2 scores... how he took it MULTIPLE TIMES in attempt to get better score(very far from the assumption that he didn't give full effort). 

 

It's OK if a test doesn't 100% predict performance. It's on those GMs and execs that they put so much weight on it. At the end of the day Stroud is just another datapoint in the dataset of 1000s players that took that test. And the discrepancy between his score and his performance might help further improve the correlation matrix. Maybe the certainty last year wasn't warranted and from now on teams and execs will read more carefully into what that test is saying and what it isn't saying and how much they should value it. 

 

My guess is... the pendulum might swing the other way too much(into completely devaluing the test). 

 

BTW I heard on a podcast that this year's QBs have been refusing to take the test precisely because of how Stroud was treated last year and teams are now * off because that test is not only used for evaluation purposes, but also for planning of future development. 

 

I don't think I agree that it's revisionist. Last year, some scores leaked, and then Stroud's scores got aggregated and the story was sensationalized. But all along, there was pushback about the scores -- were they accurate, was there missing context, was there an incomplete leak designed to make people discount Stroud, was someone trying to gain leverage for a trade, etc. There was skepticism from reputable people, and even though it was noted that many teams value the S2 test, I don't think anyone ever expected or predicted that Stroud's draft stock was significantly affected by whatever his score was. 

 

I don't remember reading that he took the test multiple times. That's an interesting variable, if it's true.

 

There can be value in the test, but like with any other piece of information, how do you apply what's learned to your evaluation process? Like you said, there's a lot of work to figure out how this testing correlates to a player's ability to perform in the NFL, same as with any other datapoint. I don't know if it should be dismissed, but I don't think any team is letting S2 scores rule over their scouting process. Not even for QBs. 

 

I haven't heard that any QBs are refusing to take the test, but I have read that agents are recommending that they don't. I think that's alarmist; Stroud went #2, which is basically what most people expected. Is it established that the scores hurt him? I'd say they did not. But I might not want a player I represent to be subjected to the media/Internet scrutiny, especially since it's clear that players pay attention to what's being said about them, and sometimes react to it.

 

To the bolded, if a team wants to use S2 results for planning, why can't they draft their QB, and then ask him to take the test? Now there's no pressure, he can test under controlled circumstances, and the team can use the data to help develop their player. 

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think I agree that it's revisionist. Last year, some scores leaked, and then Stroud's scores got aggregated and the story was sensationalized. But all along, there was pushback about the scores -- were they accurate, was there missing context, was there an incomplete leak designed to make people discount Stroud, was someone trying to gain leverage for a trade, etc. There was skepticism from reputable people, and even though it was noted that many teams value the S2 test, I don't think anyone ever expected or predicted that Stroud's draft stock was significantly affected by whatever his score was. 

 

It's very telling that nobody actually came out and said that Stroud's published test score was inaccurate. Yes there was pushback about the scores, but they all were very general and non-specific. "I've seen published scores that aren't correct", "Those scores miss a lot of context", etc. 

 

And especially when Stroud himself was asked about those scores. Do you remember what his answer was? He didn't dispute any of it. He just said he's not a test-taker, he's a football player. 

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

I don't remember reading that he took the test multiple times. That's an interesting variable, if it's true.

I think several big time reporters/analysts reported it. I think I first heard it from Zierlein. But can't find the original. Here's Pelissero reporting on it too:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-rank-and-evaluate-the-qb-class

 

 

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The Buckeyes lost just four of Stroud’s 25 starts, though two of those defeats came against rival Michigan. Stroud took the S2 Cognition test multiple times and posted low scores, but coaches who have watched the tape and put Stroud on the board were impressed with his processing ability. 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

There can be value in the test, but like with any other piece of information, how do you apply what's learned to your evaluation process? Like you said, there's a lot of work to figure out how this testing correlates to a player's ability to perform in the NFL, same as with any other datapoint. I don't know if it should be dismissed, but I don't think any team is letting S2 scores rule over their scouting process. Not even for QBs. 

There have been some suggestions that the Panthers took Bryce Young over Stroud partially because of the S2 test, because they valued it highly. 

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

I haven't heard that any QBs are refusing to take the test, but I have read that agents are recommending that they don't. I think that's alarmist; Stroud went #2, which is basically what most people expected. Is it established that the scores hurt him? I'd say they did not. But I might not want a player I represent to be subjected to the media/Internet scrutiny, especially since it's clear that players pay attention to what's being said about them, and sometimes react to it.

Yeah, I don't remember if it was reported as players refusing it or their agents not allowing them to take it, but this is what one of the podcasts I listen to reported. Not 100% sure which one it is because I consume a lot of those draft podcasts. 

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

To the bolded, if a team wants to use S2 results for planning, why can't they draft their QB, and then ask him to take the test? Now there's no pressure, he can test under controlled circumstances, and the team can use the data to help develop their player. 

They probably can... not sure if the players would do it. But if the teams knew it in advance they might have better idea of whether development in certain areas is even possible. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

It's very telling that nobody actually came out and said that Stroud's published test score was inaccurate. Yes there was pushback about the scores, but they all were very general and non-specific. "I've seen published scores that aren't correct", "Those scores miss a lot of context", etc. 

 

I read something that said the leaked scores were only partial. And now that I'm thinking about it more, I think they were saying the low score that was published was from his first attempt, and he might have retaken the test and done better. It's kind of fuzzy, but that might be the case. 

 

Either way, my point was that I remember notable pushback against the leaked scores, and their importance. So if certain people are now saying that they didn't care about the S2 scores a year ago, that doesn't sound like revisionist history to me. One of those unnamed execs could be Ballard, who was very vocal about not liking how Stroud was talked about. And we know the Colts subscribe to S2...

 

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There have been some suggestions that the Panthers took Bryce Young over Stroud partially because of the S2 test, because they valued it highly. 

 

Some suggestions... basically unsubstantiated rumors that get repeated enough that they begin to be accepted as fact. Who knows what the Panthers were doing last year, but if they let the S2 test decide which QB to draft, they deserve all the dysfunction they've experienced. I don't think even the Panthers are that lost. More likely, Bryce Young was the guy they decided on, and maybe the higher S2 was in his favor, but would have just been one of several factors that they used. 

 

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They probably can... not sure if the players would do it. But if the teams knew it in advance they might have better idea of whether development in certain areas is even possible. 

 

The way it's described, there's potentially value in the S2 testing. But using Stroud as the example, if you watch him play, and then look at a low S2 score, and can't figure out how to reconcile the disparity between the tape and the test score, then you don't know how to evaluate. Overall, I think way too much is being made of the S2 thing, similar to how way too much was made of Wonderlic scores. It's just one piece of info, and probably carries a small amount of importance overall. 

 

But if a team wants to use S2 testing to prepare a development plan, especially for a QB, there's no real reason they can't have him take the test after the draft. If that's really part of the value, and the player declines the test before the draft because he doesn't want to be scrutinized over it, then ask him to take it once you've drafted him.

[sb41champs]

You can put information and/or data out there - for public consumption - and - the information will be over-analyzed and/or criticized ad nauseum.

 

The FACT is that CJ Stroud had an outstanding rookie season - AND - the Houston Texans made the RIGHT decision for their franchise QB.

[stitches]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I read something that said the leaked scores were only partial. And now that I'm thinking about it more, I think they were saying the low score that was published was from his first attempt, and he might have retaken the test and done better. It's kind of fuzzy, but that might be the case. 

 

Either way, my point was that I remember notable pushback against the leaked scores, and their importance. So if certain people are now saying that they didn't care about the S2 scores a year ago, that doesn't sound like revisionist history to me. One of those unnamed execs could be Ballard, who was very vocal about not liking how Stroud was talked about. And we know the Colts subscribe to S2...

Huge part of the pushback came from the people who do the test themselves. They were doing damage control after supposedly confidential information was leaked to the public and in this case one of the highest profile players in the draft was affected by it. At the time the prevailing sentiment seemed to be that teams actually value that test highly, especially the teams that actually have access to it. IMO it's very convenient and self serving to only come out with skepticism about it after the highest profile prospect in the draft exceeded expectations. And BTW I love that Ballard took that stand and I hated how Stroud was being treated too. But that's different from trying to rewrite history about Strouds results and trying to come with post hoc rationalizations about how he didn't really put effort into the test. And yes, the reports I saw actually said that he took the test multiple times and his scores didn't improve.

 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Some suggestions... basically unsubstantiated rumors that get repeated enough that they begin to be accepted as fact. Who knows what the Panthers were doing last year, but if they let the S2 test decide which QB to draft, they deserve all the dysfunction they've experienced. I don't think even the Panthers are that lost. More likely, Bryce Young was the guy they decided on, and maybe the higher S2 was in his favor, but would have just been one of several factors that they used. 

We will never really know for sure what happened with the Panthers and what part of their evaluation was the S2 score, but we know their owner is big fan of new age metrics and analytics and we know Bryce had one of the highest scores ever while Stroud had one of the lowest scores ever from top prospects. If I had to guess that score had some impact on their decision. 

 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

The way it's described, there's potentially value in the S2 testing. But using Stroud as the example, if you watch him play, and then look at a low S2 score, and can't figure out how to reconcile the disparity between the tape and the test score, then you don't know how to evaluate. Overall, I think way too much is being made of the S2 thing, similar to how way too much was made of Wonderlic scores. It's just one piece of info, and probably carries a small amount of importance overall. 

It's hard for me to decide if too much or too little is being made of the score. I guess by some people - too little and by others too much. For example, even though I think this test probably has some utility, I still had Stroud as my QB2 in same tier with AR and I had the S2 superstar Bryce Young as my 4th QB... So I think I very much agree with you that it should be just a small piece of the overall evaluation. But at the same time I think it should probably has higher weight than the Wonderlic scores. Where does that put me? I don't know...I guess somewhere in the middle.

 

2 hours ago, Superman said:

But if a team wants to use S2 testing to prepare a development plan, especially for a QB, there's no real reason they can't have him take the test after the draft. If that's really part of the value, and the player declines the test before the draft because he doesn't want to be scrutinized over it, then ask him to take it once you've drafted him.

Yes, but players might not want anybody to have that information including their own team, because even seemingly irrelevant information might be used against them in the future - for example in contract negotiations... Or in case they change their team and now their rival has information about their weakest and strongest processing sides. Those are just a few examples that came to my mind.

[NFLfan]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

To me all this sounds like revisionist history. There were TONS of reports at the time about how much teams valued the S2 test, how some execs were worried about his S2 scores... how he took it MULTIPLE TIMES in attempt to get better score(very far from the assumption that he didn't give full effort). 

 

It's OK if a test doesn't 100% predict performance. It's on those GMs and execs that they put so much weight on it. At the end of the day Stroud is just another datapoint in the dataset of 1000s players that took that test. And the discrepancy between his score and his performance might help further improve the correlation matrix. Maybe the certainty last year wasn't warranted and from now on teams and execs will read more carefully into what that test is saying and what it isn't saying and how much they should value it. 

 

My guess is... the pendulum might swing the other way too much(into completely devaluing the test). 

 

BTW I heard on a podcast that this year's QBs have been refusing to take the test precisely because of how Stroud was treated last year and teams are now * off because that test is not only used for evaluation purposes, but also for planning of future development. 

 

I agree. Had Stroud performed poorly, then many would have said the test accurately predicted how he would perform in the NFL.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Huge part of the pushback came from the people who do the test themselves. They were doing damage control after supposedly confidential information was leaked to the public and in this case one of the highest profile players in the draft was affected by it. At the time the prevailing sentiment seemed to be that teams actually value that test highly, especially the teams that actually have access to it. IMO it's very convenient and self serving to only come out with skepticism about it after the highest profile prospect in the draft exceeded expectations. And BTW I love that Ballard took that stand and I hated how Stroud was being treated too. But that's different from trying to rewrite history about Strouds results and trying to come with post hoc rationalizations about how he didn't really put effort into the test. And yes, the reports I saw actually said that he took the test multiple times and his scores didn't improve.

 

That's fair. Maybe my high level of skepticism about S2 influenced my view of the prevailing opinions at the time. But I didn't think teams were being swayed by Stroud's scores. I felt like it was a major topic of conversation, but I did not and still don't think teams downgraded Stroud because of the S2 scores. I think Houston uses S2 also, right?

 

The part about Stroud not trying is interesting. I'm still not sure that we got the full story on that.

 

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We will never really know for sure what happened with the Panthers and what part of their evaluation was the S2 score, but we know their owner is big fan of new age metrics and analytics and we know Bryce had one of the highest scores ever while Stroud had one of the lowest scores ever from top prospects. If I had to guess that score had some impact on their decision. 

 

Ultimately, Stroud still went #2, which is basically what everyone expected all through draft season, so I don't think the S2 controversy wound up having any tangible impact. Maybe it was an important factor for the Panthers -- and if it tipped the decision for them, yikes -- but lots of people expected Bryce Young to go #1 all along. 

 

If Stroud had dropped out of the top ten, then maybe I'd see it differently. We'd need to talk about how the best QB in the draft was allowed to fall so dramatically. As it stands, he didn't really drop at all.

 

Quote

It's hard for me to decide if too much or too little is being made of the score. I guess by some people - too little and by others too much. For example, even though I think this test probably has some utility, I still had Stroud as my QB2 in same tier with AR and I had the S2 superstar Bryce Young as my 4th QB... So I think I very much agree with you that it should be just a small piece of the overall evaluation. But at the same time I think it should probably has higher weight than the Wonderlic scores. Where does that put me? I don't know...I guess somewhere in the middle.

 

I know there's some sarcasm with the bolded, but I just want to establish that Bryce Young didn't go at the top of the draft just because he apparently did well on the S2. He was considered a top draft prospect a year before he came out. There's a lot to like about him, he just has some flaws that I think could be insurmountable in the NFL. 

 

To me, the S2 is probably more valuable than the Wonderlic, but this kind of testing has always had limited value for NFL prospects. Not zero value, but very limited. Just throwing numbers around, if the Wonderlic was 1% of the pie, maybe S2 is 2%? Double the importance, but still one of the least important factors in the evaluation. And if you watch a QB display mastery of passing concepts for two years in college, and then a cognition test calls into question his mental acuity, and you can't decide whether the the tape or the test has greater value, then you're in the wrong line of work. 

 

I've discounted the value of the Georgia game for Stroud, because people tried to use it as an example of his ability to scramble and run, and I don't think that's a great takeaway from that game. But watch him break the pocket, scan the field, point out the open spot in the end zone, and then throw a dime to MHJ for a TD, against the best defense in college football that features multiple future first round picks... and then tell me you have questions about his ability to process and read defenses in real time. Come on. I just can't imagine an NFL decision maker making this mistake.

 

Quote

Yes, but players might not want anybody to have that information including their own team, because even seemingly irrelevant information might be used against them in the future - for example in contract negotiations... Or in case they change their team and now their rival has information about their weakest and strongest processing sides. Those are just a few examples that came to my mind.

 

I get it, but now we're in the territory of full on paranoia. If a QB gets drafted in the first round, and plays well, his team is going to break the bank to keep him. They aren't going to pull out his S2 tests from three years ago and say 'we don't know, maybe we'll draft a 90th percentile S2 guy to replace you...' 

 

And compared to the way it's been done so far, all 32 teams have access to the S2 scores (no surprise that so-called confidential info got leaked, and that's why I tend to think it was a team trying to gain trade leverage, and not anyone connected to S2). So just taking the test for the team that drafted you seems like a favorable compromise.

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's fair. Maybe my high level of skepticism about S2 influenced my view of the prevailing opinions at the time. But I didn't think teams were being swayed by Stroud's scores. I felt like it was a major topic of conversation, but I did not and still don't think teams downgraded Stroud because of the S2 scores. I think Houston uses S2 also, right?

Don't quote me on that but for some reason I think they don't have access to the S2. I think it was just the Colts and Titans from our division.

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

The part about Stroud not trying is interesting. I'm still not sure that we got the full story on that.

 

 

Ultimately, Stroud still went #2, which is basically what everyone expected all through draft season, so I don't think the S2 controversy wound up having any tangible impact. Maybe it was an important factor for the Panthers -- and if it tipped the decision for them, yikes -- but lots of people expected Bryce Young to go #1 all along. 

 

If Stroud had dropped out of the top ten, then maybe I'd see it differently. We'd need to talk about how the best QB in the draft was allowed to fall so dramatically. As it stands, he didn't really drop at all.

 

 

I know there's some sarcasm with the bolded, but I just want to establish that Bryce Young didn't go at the top of the draft just because he apparently did well on the S2. He was considered a top draft prospect a year before he came out. There's a lot to like about him, he just has some flaws that I think could be insurmountable in the NFL. 

It wasn't meant to be as heavily sarcastic as it reads. I meant it more as an at-face-value descriptor. But yah, he was considered top prospect for years before the draft. And if he was bigger and faster, maybe his processing would have had better chance to shine. I just didn't see him succeeding on a physical and athletic level in the league.

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To me, the S2 is probably more valuable than the Wonderlic, but this kind of testing has always had limited value for NFL prospects. Not zero value, but very limited. Just throwing numbers around, if the Wonderlic was 1% of the pie, maybe S2 is 2%? Double the importance, but still one of the least important factors in the evaluation. And if you watch a QB display mastery of passing concepts for two years in college, and then a cognition test calls into question his mental acuity, and you can't decide whether the the tape or the test has greater value, then you're in the wrong line of work. 

Agreed.

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I've discounted the value of the Georgia game for Stroud, because people tried to use it as an example of his ability to scramble and run, and I don't think that's a great takeaway from that game. But watch him break the pocket, scan the field, point out the open spot in the end zone, and then throw a dime to MHJ for a TD... and then tell me you have questions about his ability to process and read defenses in real time. Come on. 

Agreed. That Georgia game really had me spinning in my thoughts. I had no idea how to evaluate what I was seeing compared to the rest of his tape. And I taught me a bit of a lesson - don't discount things you see from top prospects at the biggest stage against the best competition. 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I get it, but now we're in the territory of full on paranoia. If a QB gets drafted in the first round, and plays well, his team is going to break the bank to keep him. They aren't going to pull out his S2 tests from three years ago and say 'we don't know, maybe we'll draft a 90th percentile S2 guy to replace you...' 

 

And compared to the way it's been done so far, all 32 teams have access to the S2 scores (no surprise that so-called confidential info got leaked, and that's why I tend to think it was a team trying to gain trade leverage, and not anyone connected to S2). So just taking the test for the team that drafted you seems like a favorable compromise.

I think only about half of the teams get the S2 scores and this is by design. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Don't quote me on that but for some reason I think they don't have access to the S2. I think it was just the Colts and Titans from our division.

...

I think only about half of the teams get the S2 scores and this is by design. 

 

Maybe it's Titans, not Texans.

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/s2-nfl-scores-bryce-young-2023-draft-cognition-test/aenotiwr9vumgcmilpt1avjj

Apparently, rules around when the S2 test can be administered, and to whom, are collectively bargained. So current players can't be tested, it can only be given to prospects, and only at the Senior Bowl, Shrine game, pro days, and top 30 visits. However, Drake Maye took it a year ago. Not sure if NFL teams have access to those results.

 

https://theathletic.com/4454725/2023/04/27/what-is-s2-cognition-testing/

As of last year, only 14 teams used it. But I don't see where only certain teams are allowed to use it. Is that the case? 

[stitches]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Maybe it's Titans, not Texans.

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/s2-nfl-scores-bryce-young-2023-draft-cognition-test/aenotiwr9vumgcmilpt1avjj

Apparently, rules around when the S2 test can be administered, and to whom, are collectively bargained. So current players can't be tested, it can only be given to prospects, and only at the Senior Bowl, Shrine game, pro days, and top 30 visits. However, Drake Maye took it a year ago. Not sure if NFL teams have access to those results.

 

https://theathletic.com/4454725/2023/04/27/what-is-s2-cognition-testing/

As of last year, only 14 teams used it. But I don't see where only certain teams are allowed to use it. Is that the case? 

 

Yes, I think it was their founder who said in an interview that they started with just 1 team per division and then expanded to 2 teams per division. Part of it is those teams pay for that service and they pay for exclusivity as part of the deal... the other reason I would guess is they want to be able to do some research on the usefulness of the test(i.e. how successful at drafting are teams that have it vs teams that don't... or how successful at developing talent are teams that have it vs teams that don't, etc.)

 

BTW, yes.. here's an article about the Titans getting the deal with S2:

https://theathletic.com/4260941/2023/02/28/tennessee-titans-nfl-draft-bryce-young/

Quote

 

And now the Titans are signed up to take full advantage of what S2 Cognition does to help evaluate prospects. Ally and Wylie initially determined they would only partner with one NFL team in each division for a total of eight. Ally said they reached out three times to the Titans between 2016 and 2018 and were told thanks but no thanks. A member of the Titans’ scouting department told them they were more interested in information on how players would be at learning a playbook.

 

So S2 Cognition partnered with the Colts. By the time Ally and Wylie decided to open it up to two teams per division for a total of 16, after the 2022 draft, Robinson was sold on the effectiveness of their tests. He reached out before the Texans and Jaguars did, so the Titans got the second spot (S2 Cognition is still open to another AFC East and NFC East team, by the way). The deal began in September.

 

 

[Superman]

9 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Yes, I think it was their founder who said in an interview that they started with just 1 team per division and then expanded to 2 teams per division. Part of it is those teams pay for that service and they pay for exclusivity as part of the deal... the other reason I would guess is they want to be able to do some research on the usefulness of the test(i.e. how successful at drafting are teams that have it vs teams that don't... or how successful at developing talent are teams that have it vs teams that don't, etc.)

 

BTW, yes.. here's an article about the Titans getting the deal with S2:

https://theathletic.com/4260941/2023/02/28/tennessee-titans-nfl-draft-bryce-young/

 

 

Got it, so S2 has been limiting access strategically. Still, my earlier point was that multiple teams have access to the pre-draft results, whereas if a player took the test for their own team, that would seem like a favorable compromise. However, rules prohibit that, so it's not relevant.

 

I'm curious if Drake Maye will be retaking the test during draft season, or if S2 will make his previous results available this year. I haven't read what the CBA says about this, I'll try to find it.

[Superman]

Also, just look at how irresponsibly people talk about the S2 at times. From your link:

 

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And trust what S2 Cognition tells us about quarterbacks. Our Matt Barrow wrote about them this week because 49ers rookie Brock Purdy — the last pick in the 2022 draft and one of the surprise successes of last season — crushed his S2 testing. This was not surprising to hear. I wrote about S2 in the fall of 2020, discovering that Joe Burrow had crushed his S2 testing. He scored in the 97th percentile. The S2 guys consider anything above 80 to be elite.

 

A lot of things with effective quarterbacks that we’ve considered intangibles can be quantified by tests that measure things such as spatial awareness, motor sequencing and distraction control. The ability to process information quickly, hang in a pocket and execute passes with accuracy is the most important aspect of being a quarterback. Arm strength, athleticism, toughness, leadership, of course all that matters.

 

But the “it factor” cliché that gets thrown often at quarterbacks is what an S2 test largely makes tangible. And, of course, Young dominated this test too. In fact, he’s been doing so since high school. It’s up to him to release the actual score, but Ally hinted that he likely would.

 

 

This reads like a press release for S2.

[stitches]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Got it, so S2 has been limiting access strategically. Still, my earlier point was that multiple teams have access to the pre-draft results, whereas if a player took the test for their own team, that would seem like a favorable compromise. However, rules prohibit that, so it's not relevant.

 

I'm curious if Drake Maye will be retaking the test during draft season, or if S2 will make his previous results available this year. I haven't read what the CBA says about this, I'll try to find it.

I guess it depends on what his score was. Has there been any leaks about scores of this year's QBs? I haven't seen any so far... 

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Got it, so S2 has been limiting access strategically. Still, my earlier point was that multiple teams have access to the pre-draft results, whereas if a player took the test for their own team, that would seem like a favorable compromise. However, rules prohibit that, so it's not relevant.

 

I'm curious if Drake Maye will be retaking the test during draft season, or if S2 will make his previous results available this year. I haven't read what the CBA says about this, I'll try to find it.

Has Maye already taken the test?

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Has Maye already taken the test?

 

He did take it, but looking into this more closely, apparently he took it back in high school.

 

https://www.nola.com/north-carolina-quarterback-drake-maye/image_430e5946-01aa-11ee-a1db-9b4f8b7eb80e.html

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

He did take it, but looking into this more closely, apparently he took it back in high school.

 

https://www.nola.com/north-carolina-quarterback-drake-maye/image_430e5946-01aa-11ee-a1db-9b4f8b7eb80e.html

Can't imagine they don't let him retake it then.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Can't imagine they don't let him retake it then.

 

Agreed.