Separation: 2016-2020 averages + 2020 game by game

[DougDew]

38 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 No, I'm not making your point. It's never good when your #1 WR doesn't get open, but we won plenty in 2018 when he didn't get open. In the two games he was out/injured, we still scored 24 points or more,

 

 

Because that was the year Ebron was a viable second option.  I don't think you're getting what I'm saying, so we'll leave it there.

 

Yes, Luck was a great QB for us, but the team still struggled in big games when TY was the only viable option and he did not produce.

[EastStreet]

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

When Reich was the Chargers OC, they had no RBs, a bad OL, and a prime Rivers. Reich's play calling was often questioned, and without really watching them I don't have an opinion on the quality of his play calling, but it's obvious the circumstances influenced the decision to be pass happy. I think they tended to fall behind in games back then, also.

They've had a bad OL for a long time, and have have faired better in terms of balance and rushing AVG since Reich's departure while still having a bad OL. It's not that they didn't have good RBs when Reich was there, Matthews got hurt in 2014 and they chose not to resign him. Instead, they drafted Gordon in 2015. Gordon had zero TDs in 2015, but 10 the year after Reich left. What is interesting, is Frank was promoted to OC when Wisenhunt left, then Frank was fired to bring back Wisenhunt. Sirianni was also there those year. Both he and Frank are Wisenhunt products, which I was never a fan of.

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

But I definitely question his flow and rhythm at times. For the most part, I thought he was really good in 2018, with a couple struggles here and there. That late season loss to the Jags was an F, the first six weeks of the season were rough (when Luck was trying to get going, and the OL was being shuffled due to injury), but I felt like he was a B+ play caller in 2018. Since then, there have been fits and starts, and I don't think they can all be blamed on the QB. In fact, I've felt like some of his issues have been independent of the quality of the QBing. 

That Jags game was hard on the eyes. I'm just not sure how much 2018 was Reich's game plan, vs going with the flow of the typical Luck game plan. I agree as well, not all the QB. Certainly some QB issues, but last year's Miami game was just bad on top of bad. And a few games where we went extreme opposite of the teams known weakness.

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Someone mentioned the lack of balance in the Jags opener this year. Prime example. Then other games, they stubbornly ran the ball even when it wasn't working. I mentioned a little while ago that I'm starting to wonder if Reich is just a typical conservative head coach and play caller who just goes for it on 4th down more than you'd expect. 

That's my thought almost to a T.

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Then I go back to 2018, and he seemed to have a great feel for the game, and a good play calling flow. Where Reich ended and Luck began, we can't know. And it helps when Luck is the trigger man... 

Yup, this is the mystery. I tend to believe he was simply along for the ride of what was a "Luck offense"

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

I will say, I'd like to see our coaching staff help a limited QB overperform, as opposed to just retrenching into a super conservative mode every time the QB makes them nervous.

I think the bad Jax game plan in W1 set us up for imbalance later. Reich probably realized it was silly to play like that vs the Jags knowing how bad they were vs the run, while at the same time losing trust in Rivers. That combination drove him to ultra conservative and predictable play calling the next several games. And that was mostly OK because the teams we played were mostly bad.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

So what is your correct opinion on this? 

 

What simple stats am I denying?

 

I'll wait for your replies and anticipate more of your snark.

I've already listed them. You're going in circles. 

You admitted you were lazy, and asked me to provide sep stats. I provided them. I'm sorry they don't support your pre-formed conclusion. 

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

They've had a bad OL for a long time, and have have faired better in terms of balance and rushing AVG since Reich's departure while still having a bad OL. It's not that they didn't have good RBs when Reich was there, Matthews got hurt in 2014 and they chose not to resign him. Instead, they drafted Gordon in 2015. Gordon had zero TDs in 2015, but 10 the year after Reich left. What is interesting, is Frank was promoted to OC when Wisenhunt left, then Frank was fired to bring back Wisenhunt. Sirianni was also there those year. Both he and Frank are Wisenhunt products, which I was never a fan of.

That Jags game was hard on the eyes. I'm just not sure how much 2018 was Reich's game plan, vs going with the flow of the typical Luck game plan. I agree as well, not all the QB. Certainly some QB issues, but last year's Miami game was just bad on top of bad. And a few games where we went extreme opposite of the teams known weakness.

That's my thought almost to a T.

Yup, this is the mystery. I tend to believe he was simply along for the ride of what was a "Luck offense"

I think the bad Jax game plan in W1 set us up for imbalance later. Reich probably realized it was silly to play like that vs the Jags knowing how bad they were vs the run, while at the same time losing trust in Rivers. That combination drove him to ultra conservative and predictable play calling the next several games. And that was mostly OK because the teams we played were mostly bad.

 

Ryan Matthews played six games in 2014; after that it was Branden Oliver and Donald Brown. Melvin Gordon was a rookie, and not very effective, in 2015. Reich was gone after that. Chicken or egg... but they didn't have productive backs in either of Reich's two seasons as the play caller.

 

I don't see Reich or Sirianni as products of Whisenhunt. Reich in particular has been with a bunch of different offensive coaches, with varied offensive philosophies. Tom Moore, Whisenhunt, Pederson... there's some overlap in areas, but those guys are all very different. He was with Whisenhunt for a year in AZ as well, but then he played in multiple systems also. 

 

I'm not sure what Reich's offense is meant to be. Again, it's hard to know with all the turnover at the most important position. But I don't think he's done a good job of stamping his identity on the team. Particularly on his side of the ball.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Ryan Matthews played six games in 2014; after that it was Branden Oliver and Donald Brown. Melvin Gordon was a rookie, and not very effective, in 2015. Reich was gone after that. Chicken or egg... but they didn't have productive backs in either of Reich's two seasons as the play caller.

Like I said, he got injured. I'll buy one year, but even then his (Matthews) attempts were low to start the year, and that was coming off a 1000+ year. What is interesting, is that his attempts only increased to norm levels (balance) after he came back from the injury and his AVG was much better too.

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I don't see Reich or Sirianni as products of Whisenhunt. Reich in particular has been with a bunch of different offensive coaches, with varied offensive philosophies. Tom Moore, Whisenhunt, Pederson... there's some overlap in areas, but those guys are all very different. He was with Whisenhunt for a year in AZ as well, but then he played in multiple systems also. 

Sirianni as a coach (not an assistance or staff) spent most of his time at LA/SD. I agree Reich has had more, but LA/SD still is the majority. I don't see him like Pederson, or others. I don't even see him like Wisenhunt.

1 minute ago, Superman said:

I'm not sure what Reich's offense is meant to be. Again, it's hard to know with all the turnover at the most important position. But I don't think he's done a good job of stamping his identity on the team. Particularly on his side of the ball.

Agreed. I also wonder how much impact he has on the D side. I've mentioned in another thread, that Eberflus came from more aggressive teams on D. 

[DougDew]

30 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ryan Matthews played six games in 2014; after that it was Branden Oliver and Donald Brown. Melvin Gordon was a rookie, and not very effective, in 2015. Reich was gone after that. Chicken or egg... but they didn't have productive backs in either of Reich's two seasons as the play caller.

 

I don't see Reich or Sirianni as products of Whisenhunt. Reich in particular has been with a bunch of different offensive coaches, with varied offensive philosophies. Tom Moore, Whisenhunt, Pederson... there's some overlap in areas, but those guys are all very different. He was with Whisenhunt for a year in AZ as well, but then he played in multiple systems also. 

 

I'm not sure what Reich's offense is meant to be. Again, it's hard to know with all the turnover at the most important position. But I don't think he's done a good job of stamping his identity on the team. Particularly on his side of the ball.

People are assuming that Reich's offense is meant to be the Eagles' offense of the 2010's. 

 

By looking at the between the tackles runners, the fast but relatively unwiggly WRs (all of them), and the pocket passing strong armed QB the GM is getting for him, I'd say its more like the Buffalo Bills of the 80's