Why Everyone Is So Opposed To Luck?

[SubZero]

Ive noticed alot of people have been opposed to drafting Luck. But why? At one point i also didnt want Luck. But if you look at Luck he has lots of intangibles. He is accurate, he is a very smart, he is a winner with a mediorce team, he is athletic, and he is a great leader for a team. If we got him why not learn behind one of the best quarterbacks in history. And the biggest of all Manning is old and coming off 3 surgerys. As much as we all want Manning to play forever its not going to happen. We might not have a good supporting cast for Manning if we draft Luck but if we dont we might not find a QB as good as Luck and we would suffer through years of just terrible play. All im saying is its a Quarterback driven league and if we get Luck then we would be set for another 16 years. Luck may not be better than Manning or as good as him but he will be an elite player.

[Captain Americolt]

Ive noticed alot of people have been opposed to drafting Luck. But why? At one point i also didnt want Luck. But if you look at Luck he has lots of intangibles. He is accurate, he is a very smart, he is a winner with a mediorce team, he is athletic, and he is a great leader for a team. If we got him why not learn behind one of the best quarterbacks in history. And the biggest of all Manning is old and coming off 3 surgerys. As much as we all want Manning to play forever its not going to happen. We might not have a good supporting cast for Manning if we draft Luck but if we dont we might not find a QB as good as Luck and we would suffer through years of just terrible play. All im saying is its a Quarterback driven league and if we get Luck then we would be set for another 16 years. Luck may not be better than Manning or as good as him but he will be an elite player.

Do research before you make statements. Yes luck is everything you said but almost everyone knows that by now because so many people are talking about him. But his team is not mediocre. He has arguably the best o-line in football. THREE stud TE's with two very good WRs. His team averages over 200 rushing yards a game. Stanford also has i believe the #1 defense in their conference. People who are opposed to luck know all that and know he wont do squat with this team (colts) until we fix up the D and special teams and the o-line.

[BmoreColt]

+1!!!! He would have the same problems Peyton had his entire career, except he would only be able to lead the Colts to about four wins instead of zero that they are on pace for now. Where Manning makes them a Super Bowl contendor every year. How about fix the problems using Luck's value as an advantage!

[CR91]

why does everyone think we have 1 draft pick. guys we can spend the other SIX picks we have on defense. you never get an opportunity to draft a player of luck's caliber every time. peyton is coming back from nerve surgery. along with being 36 you really want to take a chance of peyton not getting hurt without a back up plan

[dn4192]

+1!!!! He would have the same problems Peyton had his entire career, except he would only be able to lead the Colts to about four wins instead of zero that they are on pace for now. Where Manning makes them a Super Bowl contendor every year. How about fix the problems using Luck's value as an advantage!

What problem? I mean really have colt fans become so jaded that they feel that past decade has been subpar football? OMG outside of maybe 2 other teams in the NFL every other team in the NFL would die to have had the success the Colts have had during the Manning era.

[dn4192]

I believe the biggest reason people are against Luck is because it signals the end or the beginning of the end of the Peyton era which people just don't want to accept.

[CR91]

I believe the biggest reason people are against Luck is because it signals the end or the beginning of the end of the Peyton era which people just don't want to accept.

couldnt agree more

[noah larson]

becuase people believe we have 3-4 more years with Manning. If that's the case then i would rather build up the secondary and try to get one more superbowl with Manning. If Manning's not doing so good when the draft comes around, i'm all for getting Luck. If Miami was willing to give up a lot for the 1st though i would rather make that trade and draft Barkley with the 2nd since i don't think that Barkley isn't far behind Luck.

[Jason_]

Do research before you make statements. Yes luck is everything you said but almost everyone knows that by now because so many people are talking about him. But his team is not mediocre. He has arguably the best o-line in football. THREE stud TE's with two very good WRs. His team averages over 200 rushing yards a game. Stanford also has i believe the #1 defense in their conference. People who are opposed to luck know all that and know he wont do squat with this team (colts) until we fix up the D and special teams and the o-line.

Thank you and +1 for you

why does everyone think we have 1 draft pick. guys we can spend the other SIX picks we have on defense. you never get an opportunity to draft a player of luck's caliber every time. peyton is coming back from nerve surgery. along with being 36 you really want to take a chance of peyton not getting hurt without a back up plan

Or we can trade Luck, turn him into 4-6 additional picks and turn around the defense and OL that much faster.

becuase people believe we have 3-4 more years with Manning. If that's the case then i would rather build up the secondary and try to get one more superbowl with Manning. If Manning's not doing so good when the draft comes around, i'm all for getting Luck. If Miami was willing to give up a lot for the 1st though i would rather make that trade and draft Barkley with the 2nd since i don't think that Barkley isn't far behind Luck.

I agree. I would trade the #1 pick regardless of Peyton's health, turn it into as many additional picks as possible and take whoever evaluates higher between the non-Luck Qbs and use the multitude of additional picks to stack a much better team around him.

[CR91]

Or we can trade Luck, turn him into 4-6 additional picks and turn around the defense and OL that much faster.

which changes what exactly? we dont have a bad defense. what we have is a bad defensive philosophy. ypu can bring in demarcus ware and he would suck in our defense.

[Jason_]

which changes what exactly? we dont have a bad defense. what we have is a bad defensive philosophy. ypu can bring in demarcus ware and he would suck in our defense.

Um, it upgrades the defense and the OL that much faster...I said that in the post you quoted. I agree that coaching is the primary reason for the poor defensive plays, but there are still several positions that need to be upgraded and further depth added. Also, as I said, adding extra picks would also help to further solidify the OL just for starters, and could also allow us to address WR.

[CR91]

Um, it upgrades the defense and the OL that much faster...I said that in the post you quoted. I agree that coaching is the primary reason for the poor defensive plays, but there are still several positions that need to be upgraded and further depth added. Also, as I said, adding extra picks would also help to further solidify the OL just for starters, and could also allow us to address WR.

but it would be all for not once peyton is gone plus we have other picks and fa to improve our line and defense

[MAC]

which changes what exactly? we dont have a bad defense. what we have is a bad defensive philosophy. ypu can bring in demarcus ware and he would suck in our defense.

That's not remotely true. Look at it this way, we've had the same defense for a decade and had virtually unprecedented success. This year they've taken a step backwards. While part of that is the "Manning" effect, the rest is on the personnel - whether it's talent, youth, injuries, execution or a combination of all I don't know. Experts (including Polian) often say that you can win with ANY defensive philosophy if you have the right personnel.

[CR91]

That's not remotely true. Look at it this way, we've had the same defense for a decade and had virtually unprecedented success. This year they've taken a step backwards. While part of that is the "Manning" effect, the rest is on the personnel - whether it's talent, youth, injuries, execution or a combination of all I don't know. Experts (including Polian) often say that you can win with ANY defensive philosophy if you have the right personnel.

this defense has only been good under this defensive scheme three times 2005,2007,2009 thats three years in ten. we cant win with this defense without peyton, but that doesnt mean we dont have talent on defense we're just not fully using there talents

[gladsadmad]

thought some of you might enjoy this...

if possible..could one of you post this on the main page because I'm not able (being new)

[MAC]

Ive noticed alot of people have been opposed to drafting Luck. But why? At one point i also didnt want Luck. But if you look at Luck he has lots of intangibles. He is accurate, he is a very smart, he is a winner with a mediorce team, he is athletic, and he is a great leader for a team. If we got him why not learn behind one of the best quarterbacks in history. And the biggest of all Manning is old and coming off 3 surgerys. As much as we all want Manning to play forever its not going to happen. We might not have a good supporting cast for Manning if we draft Luck but if we dont we might not find a QB as good as Luck and we would suffer through years of just terrible play. All im saying is its a Quarterback driven league and if we get Luck then we would be set for another 16 years. Luck may not be better than Manning or as good as him but he will be an elite player.

If the Colts decide to take Luck, I'd be fine with that - because a FO I trust and respect would have made the decision that he is worth the pick - and that Peyton's health warrants it.

I often recoil against the drafting of Luck, but what I'm primarily objecting to is the volume of people who have jumped to the assumption that not only is Luck the best QB coming out of college this year, but someone who will instantly do for this franchise the same things that Peyton has done. It took Peyton YEARS to get to the point where he could "do what Peyton has done". The instant gratification freaks who are bowing down to Luck now, will also be the first ones to call him a bust when he's learning how to play QB at the NFL level.

I don't like the Luck jerseys, I don't like anything about "suck for luck". My expectation is that Peyton will remain the best QB in football for several more years, and I want the Colts to do everything possible to maximize that period. Andrew Luck isn't a clone of Peyton Manning. Peyton is unique, and Luck is just some promising college kid. Neither you, me, or anyone else on this planet has any knowledge of what - if anything - he will become.

[Jason_]

but it would be all for not once peyton is gone plus we have other picks and fa to improve our line and defense

How on earth would it be all for naught once Peyton is gone? Are these players we'd be drafting going to be forced into retirement with Manning?

[Captain Americolt]

Jason that +1 was from me Thankyou man I thought i was alone here lol.

[CR91]

How on earth would it be all for naught once Peyton is gone? Are these players we'd be drafting going to be forced into retirement with Manning?

do you see whats happening now? our pro bowl players have been useless. what makes you think this wont happen again

[MAC]

thought some of you might enjoy this...

if possible..could one of you post this on the main page because I'm not able (being new)

No, I didn't enjoy it. That is one absurdly big post, and one nasty closeup. If Luck ends up a Colt, fine, but could we wait until he is drafted before we kiss his feet? Actually how about waiting until he is drafted, STARTING, and playing at a high level?

Do you know how silly this stuff is going to look if he ends up playing somewhere else?

[Captain Americolt]

No, I didn't enjoy it. That is one absurdly big post, and one nasty closeup. If Luck ends up a Colt, fine, but could we wait until he is drafted before we kiss his feet? Actually how about waiting until he is drafted, STARTING, and playing at a high level?

Do you know how silly this stuff is going to look if he ends up playing somewhere else?

I think gladsadmad has 3 posts. One being that horrible post with all the luck pictures. I hope he ends up with another team so he can look foolish. Nice way to start off in the forum . Welcome Gladsadmad

[Jason_]

do you see whats happening now? our pro bowl players have been useless. what makes you think this wont happen again

I agreed with you that coaching/play-calling was a huge issue and I'm assuming this will be fixed. I don't know about you, but I'd rather build a more complete overall team that doesn't require the GOAT QB in order to be successful.

[Captain Americolt]

I agreed with you that coaching/play-calling was a huge issue and I'm assuming this will be fixed. I don't know about you, but I'd rather build a more complete overall team that doesn't require the GOAT QB in order to be successful.

Exactly. And drafting Luck wont fix anything. ........

[CR91]

Exactly. And drafting Luck wont fix anything. ........

it would fix the problem we will have when peyton cant play. this is nerve surgery who knows how well hes gonna be to play

[CR91]

I agreed with you that coaching/play-calling was a huge issue and I'm assuming this will be fixed. I don't know about you, but I'd rather build a more complete overall team that doesn't require the GOAT QB in order to be successful.

why cant we have both? we have talent on our defense already. we just have to use there full talent.

[Jason_]

it would fix the problem we will have when peyton cant play. this is nerve surgery who knows how well hes gonna be to play

Already had that taken care of.

and take whoever evaluates higher between the non-Luck Qbs and use the multitude of additional picks to stack a much better team around him.

[Captain Americolt]

it would fix the problem we will have when peyton cant play. this is nerve surgery who knows how well hes gonna be to play

Its not like luck is the only QB in this draft. Theres alot with solid potential. We dont need to use the 1st ovr pick on a QB

[Jason_]

why cant we have both? we have talent on our defense already. we just have to use there full talent.

1) Salary Cap

2) There is no way to know that Luck will or won't be the next GOAT QB.

[MAC]

this defense has only been good under this defensive scheme three times 2005,2007,2009 thats three years in ten. we cant win with this defense without peyton, but that doesnt mean we dont have talent on defense we're just not fully using there talents

The defense was in the top ten in points allowed in more years than that I believe. More to the point, they were good enough to win more games than anyone else. A lot of teams had better defenses, but they didn't have nearly the success. And yes, that wouldn't have happened without Peyton, but the purpose of chosing this style of defense was to minimize the cap space devoted to it so that they could afford the offense. It just had to be good enough to win, not be the best.

If Peyton retires, I wouldn't be surprised to see them change philosophies entirely, because the defense will be required to do more (unless they get a new QB who they think can play brilliantly within the existing system).

[CR91]

Already had that taken care of.

right but like i said our defense isnt as bad as they seem

freeney and mathis- we know the monsters they are

bethea- a top 10 safety

powers- an up and coming good corner

angerer- real quick to the ball and a great tackler

connor- good up and coming lb that tackles really well

nevis- a monster in the middle

aj- good run stopper

what we really need is a SS and another cb. we dont need to draft high for defense

[CR91]

1) Salary Cap

2) There is no way to know that Luck will or won't be the next GOAT QB.

do you think teams go into drafts thinking there gonna get the next great player? no there taking a gamble and hoping they dont lose there house

[Jason_]

do you think teams go into drafts thinking there gonna get the next great player? no there taking a gamble and hoping they dont lose there house

I might have misunderstood you before. I said I'd rather build a more complete overall team that doesn't require the GOAT QB to run it. You said "why can't we have both". I assumed, since the premise of this thread is to draft Luck, that you were saying Luck is the next GOAT QB.

[Jason_]

right but like i said our defense isnt as bad as they seem

freeney and mathis- we know the monsters they are

bethea- a top 10 safety

powers- an up and coming good corner

angerer- real quick to the ball and a great tackler

connor- good up and coming lb that tackles really well

nevis- a monster in the middle

aj- good run stopper

what we really need is a SS and another cb. we dont need to draft high for defense

I agree that our defense isn't as bad as they seem...I agreed with you on that earlier. But we do still need at least a #1 CB, imo an upgrade at MLB and move Angerer back outside, either an upgrade or depth at NT, a starting SS and we also need to start planning for life after Freeney and Mathis, especially since there's no guarantee we'll be able to re-sign Mathis. I would like to take a more balanced, every down DE. Add to that at least 1 WR and 1-2 additions to the OL and there are quite a few holes to fill. Trading the Luck pick to the highest bidder would give us multiple additional picks to go along with what we'll already have and we'd be able to fill these holes much faster.

[Captain Americolt]

I agree that our defense isn't as bad as they seem...I agreed with you on that earlier. But we do still need at least a #1 CB, imo an upgrade at MLB and move Angerer back outside, either an upgrade or depth at NT, a starting SS and we also need to start planning for life after Freeney and Mathis, especially since there's no guarantee we'll be able to re-sign Mathis. I would like to take a more balanced, every down DE. Add to that at least 1 WR and 1-2 additions to the OL and there are quite a few holes to fill. Trading the Luck pick to the highest bidder would give us multiple additional picks to go along with what we'll already have and we'd be able to fill these holes much faster.

Agree on everything. Sad part is i LOVE angerer but we need an upgrade at mlb and at olb angerer would only be sub-par....

[Jason_]

Agree on everything. Sad part is i LOVE angerer but we need an upgrade at mlb and at olb angerer would only be sub-par....

I don't know about the Angerer being sub-par at OLB. I'd like to see him tried at WILL with a new MLB (Kuechly or Teo would be fantastic) and Wheeler at SAM.

[Flash7]

I see a lot of good arguments regarding this post. There are two camps firmly entrenched in their views, the draft Luck camp, and the trade for more picks camp. Both sides have merit to their arguments. Let's quickly rule out some of the arguments that do not make any sense.

1. "Let's draft Luck and let him develope like Rodgers. -We cannot draft Luck and have him sit and develope like Rodgers. We would be waisting the rookie wage scale. He only has a few years when his salary is not high. This is when you would take advantage of his rookie contract and be agressive to build a well balanced team around Luck. Unfortunately, this means that we would trade or release Manning due to Mannings large contract.

2. The notion that Luck would be learning from one of the greatest behind Peyton is not realistic.- Peyton Manning takes every snap in practice becuase he wants to win and he prepares that way. He will not give up on the opportunity to win and prepare at practice, so that he can groom his replacement. Once Peyton can't play at a high level anymore, he will be done. He's not someone that goes halfway. He's past actions show that he an "all or nothing" type of guy and he would have nothing to do with "grooming Luck."

3. Andrew Luck might bust- Let's not compare Luck to guys that were questionable coming out of College like the obvious busts Leaf, and Russel. What Luck has is both the skills and intangibles and would be very comparable to drafting a guy like Matt Ryan who everyone said had good character and the talent. However, Luck is projected to be better than Matt Ryan based on how his skill set would fit NFL offenses, his accuracy, and his overall IQ. Of course there is a risk with every prospect that you can draft. You can't not draft a guy because he may bust, otherwise you would essentially be scared to draft anyone, as there are no absolute gaurantees.

These are some of the obvious ones that I've seen over and over again. I thought that it would be good to address this now in hopes that maybe we won't see the same tired arguments over and over again in the future.

There's probably more that I've missed, so feel free to help out.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Because it's a waste of a pick. You don't draft a quarterback #1 overall to be a backup for 4 years! We could load this team with talent at positions of need if we don't pick a quarterback early in this draft.

[super8todd]

Ive noticed alot of people have been opposed to drafting Luck. But why? At one point i also didnt want Luck. But if you look at Luck he has lots of intangibles. He is accurate, he is a very smart, he is a winner with a mediorce team, he is athletic, and he is a great leader for a team. If we got him why not learn behind one of the best quarterbacks in history. And the biggest of all Manning is old and coming off 3 surgerys. As much as we all want Manning to play forever its not going to happen. We might not have a good supporting cast for Manning if we draft Luck but if we dont we might not find a QB as good as Luck and we would suffer through years of just terrible play. All im saying is its a Quarterback driven league and if we get Luck then we would be set for another 16 years. Luck may not be better than Manning or as good as him but he will be an elite player.

Arguing with these people on here that don't see that we cannot ride Manning into the sunset for more than 2 years is not worth your time.

Because it's a waste of a pick. You don't draft a quarterback #1 overall to be a backup for 4 years! We could load this team with talent at positions of need if we don't pick a quarterback early in this draft.

We've all been through this argument over and over again. Its time we rebuild. Peyton is NOT playing for 4 more years. We have the One shot at getting the next stud QB and everyone wants to trade him.

[super8todd]

Exactly. And drafting Luck wont fix anything. ........

It will give us our head start on our rebuilding project... and when Peyton goes down with an injury flare up next year, it will make sure we never go 0-16 again. ;)

[CR91]

I don't know about the Angerer being sub-par at OLB. I'd like to see him tried at WILL with a new MLB (Kuechly or Teo would be fantastic) and Wheeler at SAM.

why? angerer is doing great in the middle