Chris Ballard and Frank Reich confident Matt Ryan can stop Colts’ QB carousel.

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I'm not sure how we talked ourselves into believing that the only way to reach a superbowl is by drafting your own franchise quarterback.  It's that or nothing.  If you don't draft your own, you have no hope of reaching a superbowl.  Nada.

 

Retreaded QB's that led their adopted teams to superbowls:

Len Dawson was drafted 5th overall in 1957 by the Steelers.  After being unable to crack the starting lineup with both the Steelers and the Browns over the course of five years, he went to the AFL, and led the Chiefs to two superbowls, winning one of them.

Jim Plunkett was drafted 1st overall by the Patriots in 1971.  He played well for 6 years until separating his shoulder, as well as a change in offense.  Was traded to the 49ers, where he played ok, but not well enough, and was released.  Picked up by Oakland, he took over for an injured Dan Pastorini, and led the Raiders to two superbowls and winning MVP.

Doug Williams was the 17th overall pick by the Bucs in 1978.  He spent four years there, being disrespected by owner Hugh Culverhouse, and left to the USFL.  When that folded, he was signed by the R*dskins, and took them to a superbowl.

Ron Jaworski was drafted in the 2nd round by the Rams.  He was a useful backup while they made their playoff run.  He was then traded to the Eagles, where he led them to the superbowl in 1980.

Chris Chandler was a 3rd round pick of the Colts in 1988, and bounced around the league for 9 years.  Eventually wound up in Atlanta with coach Dan Reeves, where they went to the superbowl together, losing to the Broncos in Elway's final hurrah.

Trent Dilfer was the 6th overall pick by the Bucs in 1994.  He played ok, but inconsistently for 5 years, and was traded during the Bucs' search for better offense to match their amazing defense.  He landed in Baltimore, where he played just well enough to complement their amazing defense, and win a superbowl in 2000.

Brad Johnson was a 9th round pick with the Vikings.  He was a nobody.  Actually played for the London Monarchs for a season.  Came back to the NFL with the R*dskins, and started for them.  Traded to the Bucs in 2003, and led them to a superbowl win.

Matthew Stafford was the 1st overall pick for the Lions in 2009.  He played 11 years with them, sometimes in the playoffs, sometimes in obscurity.  Was traded to the Rams in 2021, and led them to the superbowl.

 

There are others with greater or lesser stories as well.  Matt Hasselbeck, Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, Jake Delhomme, Brett Favre.  All went to the superbowl with a different team than the one they started with.

 

It's been done.  Don't know why we have to insist that we cannot go that route.

 

 

Other than Stafford, none of those happened recently. The game has really evolved since then. And now the path to the SB in the AFC is loaded with very good QBs for years to come. The Colts are behind in that regard, which puts them at a disadvantage.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, Indy87 said:

The AFC is loaded. But you only have to get in and anything can happen. We only fave to face 3 of those AFC opponents and if you're a higher seed you're going to be playing the likes of last year's steelers lol jk. 

 

But seriously we don't need to beat all the QBs only a handful come playoff time. 

 

I imagine there won't be any last year's Steelers teams for a good while. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Exactly this. The consensus narrative seems to be that not only is Ryan an upgrade from Wentz, but he's also the best QB they have had since Luck, which means he's also a step up from Rivers.

 

But there is nothing to really support that until we see Ryan play this season. 

 

When Rivers came to Indy, he was coming off a bad season. But the season prior to that he had a legit PB season at age 37. He had already shown that he could play at a high level into the back half of his 30s, even with his physical limitations. 

 

Ryan is coming off a poor season as well. But you have to go back three seasons prior to that to find a really high level of play, when Ryan was 33 and still in his prime. And since then, his play has declined into the back half of his 30s. 

 

If anything, a betting person would have bet on Rivers in the respective situations, who had the higher recent level of play. But I get that most fans aren't bettors.

Matt Ryan in 2020 = 4561 yards, 26 TD's, 11 INT's/93.3 Rating = very good stats

Matt Ryan in 2021 = 3968 Yards, 20 TD's, 12 INT's/90.3 Rating = good stats

 

His last 2 seasons were far from poor individually. The narrative with a few in here thinking he is just a JAG is absurd. Same people that wanted guys like Mariota, Trubisky, or Mayfield or draft a rookie. That would have been a joke had we went after 1 of those 3, thank God Irsay and Ballard are smarter than that.

 

Where is the evidence he isn't still going to be good with those numbers on bad teams he had 2020 and 2021? There is nothing to support he won't be good to turn your narrative around. Oh I Know, because the Falcons went 4-12 in 2020, and in 2021 they went 7-10 but yet when I said JB was playing good because we were 5-2, people piled on me and said look at his stats. All I ever said was JB was playing good and like a top 15 QB and few in here took that and ran with it like I was saying the dude was better Luck  . Can't have it both ways people. 

 

[Myles]

35 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Exactly this. The consensus narrative seems to be that not only is Ryan an upgrade from Wentz, but he's also the best QB they have had since Luck, which means he's also a step up from Rivers.

 

But there is nothing to really support that until we see Ryan play this season. 

 

When Rivers came to Indy, he was coming off a bad season. But the season prior to that he had a legit PB season at age 37. He had already shown that he could play at a high level into the back half of his 30s, even with his physical limitations. 

 

Ryan is coming off a poor season as well. But you have to go back three seasons prior to that to find a really high level of play, when Ryan was 33 and still in his prime. And since then, his play has declined into the back half of his 30s. 

 

If anything, a betting person would have bet on Rivers in the respective situations, who had the higher recent level of play. But I get that most fans aren't bettors.

They are close, but Rivers had a very mediocre last 2 years of his career.  47 TD/ 31 INT.  92 rating.

Ryan - 46 TD/ 23 INT.  92 rating.  

Even in the postseason, their career playoff records are similar.  Rivers 5-7, Ryan 4-6.

[Jared Cisneros]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Matt Ryan in 2020 = 4561 yards, 26 TD's, 11 INT's/93.3 Rating = very good stats

Matt Ryan in 2021 = 3968 Yards, 20 TD's, 12 INT's/90.3 Rating = good stats

 

His last 2 seasons were far from poor individually. The narrative with a few in here thinking he is just a JAG is absurd. Same people that wanted guys like Mariota, Trubisky, or Mayfield or draft a rookie. That would have been a joke had we went after 1 of those 3, thank God Irsay and Ballard are smarter than that.

 

Where is the evidence he isn't still going to be good with those numbers on bad teams he had 2020 and 2021? There is nothing to support he won't be good to turn your narrative around. Oh I Know, because the Falcons went 4-12 in 2020, and in 2021 they went 7-10 but yet when I said JB was playing good because we were 5-2, people piled on me and said look at his stats. All I ever said was JB was playing good and like a top 15 QB and few in here took that and ran with it like I was saying the dude was better Luck  . Can't have it both ways people. 

 

Personally, I would have signed Ryan and drafted either Willis or Ridder in the 3rd round to learn from Matt Ryan for a year or two (whichever was higher on the Colts board). It's a bit hindsight to say I would of known they make it to the 3rd, but it seems that every team in the NFL was down on the QBs in this years draft besides the Steelers taking Pickett in the 1st round, so I don't think it was hindsight for GMs, it's more of the Colts and Ballard weren't interested in either one, and in our situation, I think that's where the mistake was made long-term.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

They are close, but Rivers had a very mediocre last 2 years of his career.  47 TD/ 31 INT.  92 rating.

Ryan - 46 TD/ 23 INT.  92 rating.  

Even in the postseason, their career playoff records are similar.  Rivers 5-7, Ryan 4-6.

I have both in my Top 25 of all-time (between 21-25), talking now the main difference is Ryan is 3 years younger and his arm strength is better with virtually the same brain that Rivers has.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Personally, I would have signed Ryan and drafted either Willis or Ridder in the 3rd round to learn from Matt Ryan for a year or two (whichever was higher on the Colts board). It's a bit hindsight to say I would of known they make it to the 3rd, but it seems that every team in the NFL was down on the QBs in this years draft besides the Steelers taking Pickett in the 1st round, so I don't think it was hindsight for GMs, it's more of the Colts and Ballard weren't interested in either one, and in our situation, I think that's where the mistake was made long-term.

Depending on how this year goes, I would be ok if we drafted a QB next year and have been on record saying so. This draft it would have made no sense, JMO. + we even have Foles as a backup and we are all in trying to make a deep a run in 2022. 

[Jared Cisneros]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Depending on how this year goes, I would be ok if we drafted a QB next year and have been on record saying so. This draft it would have made no sense, JMO. + we even have Foles as a backup and we are all in trying to make a deep a run in 2022. 

I get it, but I guess the million dollar question is, do you draft a developmental QB with solid potential in the 3rd round that can be ready once Matt Ryan retires, or do you use the third rounder on a different position, draft a QB in the 1st round in a couple years, and possibly have to trade up to get your guy?

 

I understand Foles as the backup, but it's easy to keep 3 QBs on the roster. I also understand being all-in, but a 3rd round pick shouldn't be the difference between winning and losing the SB. I think that there's going to be a conundrum once Matt Ryan retires in a couple years, and Ballard may look back and wish he had Willis or Ridder (who would be ready at that point to take over) when the decision comes whether to trade up in the 1st and give up multiple picks to get our franchise QB that may very well be the 3rd-5th option in the draft.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I get it, but I guess the million dollar question is, do you draft a developmental QB with solid potential in the 3rd round that can be ready once Matt Ryan retires, or do you use the third rounder on a different position, draft a QB in the 1st round in a couple years, and possibly have to trade up to get your guy?

 

I understand Foles as the backup, but it's easy to keep 3 QBs on the roster. I also understand being all-in, but a 3rd round pick shouldn't be the difference between winning and losing the SB. I think that there's going to be a conundrum once Matt Ryan retires in a couple years, and Ballard may look back and wish he had Willis or Ridder (who would be ready at that point to take over) when the decision comes whether to trade up in the 1st and give up multiple picks to get our franchise QB that may very well be the 3rd-5th option in the draft.

I haven't really looked at how many good QB's are coming out in 2023 but I keep hearing 5 or 6 and that is a alot. I do know of QBs like Hooker, Stroud, and Young.

[MikeCurtis]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 I would be ok if we drafted a QB next year and have been on record saying so. This draft it would have made no sense, JMO. + we even have Foles as a backup and we are all in trying to make a deep a run in 2022. 

I hate to disagree with a fellow Colts fan, but

 

Today...... we dont have the future QB on the roster

 

We have a HOPEFULLY 2-3 year solution.

 

Remember Rodgers sat on the bench 3 full seasons behind Farve

 

If Ryan has a really good year this year, and father time creeps slower

 

He STILL isnt someone that you should count on being the guy for the next 5 years

 

Lets get through THIS year first......

 

IMHO.....  There MAY be a QB sitting there when we draft next year that just needs some time handling a clipboard

 

I think you always have to be looking for that position till that role is filled

 

 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Matt Ryan in 2020 = 4561 yards, 26 TD's, 11 INT's/93.3 Rating = very good stats

Matt Ryan in 2021 = 3968 Yards, 20 TD's, 12 INT's/90.3 Rating = good stats

 

His last 2 seasons were far from poor individually. The narrative with a few in here thinking he is just a JAG is absurd. Same people that wanted guys like Mariota, Trubisky, or Mayfield or draft a rookie. That would have been a joke had we went after 1 of those 3, thank God Irsay and Ballard are smarter than that.

 

Where is the evidence he isn't still going to be good with those numbers on bad teams he had 2020 and 2021? There is nothing to support he won't be good to turn your narrative around. Oh I Know, because the Falcons went 4-12 in 2020, and in 2021 they went 7-10 but yet when I said JB was playing good because we were 5-2, people piled on me and said look at his stats. All I ever said was JB was playing good and like a top 15 QB and few in here took that and ran with it like I was saying the dude was better Luck  . Can't have it both ways people. 

 

 

I don't agree with the narrative that Ryan is a bad QB. But there's like a very small fraction of the fanbase who talk about that.

 

However, his stats over the past 3 seasons do put him in the middle of the pack of QBs (15-20 range). And those were his age 34-36 seasons. How he has played for the past 3 years is far more support for how Ryan will play than how he played 4-6 years ago when he was still in his prime.

 

And the Matt Ryan of the past three seasons was not better than Rivers, which is why the "best QB since Luck" narrative is presumptive.

 

That doesn't mean he's a bad QB or anything. 

 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

They are close, but Rivers had a very mediocre last 2 years of his career.  47 TD/ 31 INT.  92 rating.

Ryan - 46 TD/ 23 INT.  92 rating.  

Even in the postseason, their career playoff records are similar.  Rivers 5-7, Ryan 4-6.

 

Rivers vs. Ryan for their careers is an entirely different debate.

 

I am just talking about the version of each player that is going to wear the horseshoe. There seems to be a consensus that Ryan is better than Rivers and it's not really grounded in anything other presumptions about attributes.

 

This happened with Wentz last year as well. And predictably, Wentz played like he did in the 2019 seasons.

 

This is just how I see it. The most realistic outcome is that Matt Ryan is a middle of the pack QB for the Colts. But that doesn't mean he can't be better.

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Rivers vs. Ryan for their careers is an entirely different debate.

 

I am just talking about the version of each player that is going to wear the horseshoe. There seems to be a consensus that Ryan is better than Rivers and it's not really grounded in anything other presumptions about attributes.

 

This happened with Wentz last year as well. And predictably, Wentz played like he did in the 2019 seasons.

 

This is just how I see it. The most realistic outcome is that Matt Ryan is a middle of the pack QB for the Colts. But that doesn't mean he can't be better.

I think they are both similar.   I think the thought that the Colts will do better is based on the team as a whole being better.  Pass Rush, running game and the DB's.  

[Indy87]

3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I imagine there won't be any last year's Steelers teams for a good while. 

 

Yeah it was just humor.