Bobby Okereke vs. Devin Bush

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I never compared Bush and Okereke I just compared their stats and sample wise of it.

I mean... the title is Okereke vs Bush... 

 

4 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I understand what Nickel is and that's why Okereke is playing about 1/2 the snaps as Walker because he's playing the SAM position which he is only playing the usual 1st downs. Rotating here and there on 3rd downs occasionally.

Key point here between Bush and Okereke, and 3-4 ILB (who is taken off in dime/passing situations) and 4-3 SAM/SOLB (who is also put on the field at MIKE in passing situations) is that one is playing inside more vs the run, and the other is playing outside and in space, or passing situations. Very different play making opportunities. The same goes for the Walker to Oke comparison.

4 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I also understood about drafting a LB. I think we both know it won't be early and you were thinking more Mid round. 

Not sure if you're a mind reader, but if you are, you're a bad one. I see LB as one of the two lowest priorities in the draft. I also know that depth (key word which I used) LB is a devalued position and one that can be found in both FA and late. And keep in mind Walker was a 5th round pick.... My point is, if Oke is the #1 SAM, we don't need to carry 3 SAMs (which are only played 20-35% of the time anyway). Franklin would be the odd man out. And if we let Franklin go, we aren't picking up another SAM, we'd look at MIKE/MLB if we're going to carry 6 LBs.

 

4 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I  personally think it won't happen with the depth we have with Leonard, Walker, Okereke, Franklin and Speed. I could be wrong but just don't see it as a priority with other needs unless somehow a player falls or if there is a guy that Ballard likes a lot.

If Oke sticks at SAM, how much would you like to bet that Franklin is gone next year?

 

4 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Also, to say they think he is not the answer for a 3 down Mike because of 3 games while Leonard is out is fullish. He's a 3rd round rookie that barerly played before than. Like rookies make a lot of mistakes. 

IMO, Oke is not built for ILB vs the run. His base is much smaller than Walker's, and his strength is not idea for those responsibilities. I followed Oke at Stanford before he was a Colt, and he had the same issues there. ND put up 270+ yards rushing against them, and Dex had 160+ on his own. And I don't see him improving his base or strength all that much. Stanford has a fabulous S&C program, and he's likely near topped out in those facets. If you don't want to take my word for it, check out NFL.com's combine review of him. Says pretty much the same thing.

 

4 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Just like Rock has.

Rock's struggles are very different than Oke's. Rock is not struggling with size or strength, he's adjusting to scheme and is raw (needs to refine technique). He's also drinking from a fire hose and was leading the team in D snaps as a rook before he got dinged up. Rock's struggles are a perfect example of player who "clicks" after a year. Oke's struggles are more due to limited natural attributes.

4 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

That's why Ballard preaches you have to play you're young guys cause that's how they get better and grow. I'm not saying Okereke is perfect but ever since the Chiefs game his play has gotten better and better and he is improving more and more. I just rather see Okereke snap counts increase hence taking the starting Mike spot and Walker decrease because Okereke has been making game changing plays and is playing minimal snaps. 

I love what Oke is doing, and I love the way we are using him. His stats are improving because we are using him correctly and to his strengths (switch to SAM and in limited passing downs at MIKE), and not using him on the inside vs the run where he is weak. I'd love to be wrong, but IMO you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think he's going become and every down MLB/MIKE. He's just not built to be, or become that guy.

[Dark Superman]

A ton of rookies are getting a ton of playing time in 2019 and most of them have impressed the heck out of me. Ya-Sin, Khari, Okereke, Banogu, have all shown me something. Parris Campbell had a rough season with all the injuries, but I'm confident whenever he manages to stay on the field, he will make plays and prove to be another solid pick by CB.

[Coffeedrinker]

11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I mean... the title is Okereke vs Bush... 

 

Key point here between Bush and Okereke, and 3-4 ILB (who is taken off in dime/passing situations) and 4-3 SAM/SOLB (who is also put on the field at MIKE in passing situations) is that one is playing inside more vs the run, and the other is playing outside and in space, or passing situations. Very different play making opportunities. The same goes for the Walker to Oke comparison.

Not sure if you're a mind reader, but if you are, you're a bad one. I see LB as one of the two lowest priorities in the draft. I also know that depth (key word which I used) LB is a devalued position and one that can be found in both FA and late. And keep in mind Walker was a 5th round pick.... My point is, if Oke is the #1 SAM, we don't need to carry 3 SAMs (which are only played 20-35% of the time anyway). Franklin would be the odd man out. And if we let Franklin go, we aren't picking up another SAM, we'd look at MIKE/MLB if we're going to carry 6 LBs.

 

If Oke sticks at SAM, how much would you like to bet that Franklin is gone next year?

 

IMO, Oke is not built for ILB vs the run. His base is much smaller than Walker's, and his strength is not idea for those responsibilities. I followed Oke at Stanford before he was a Colt, and he had the same issues there. ND put up 270+ yards rushing against them, and Dex had 160+ on his own. And I don't see him improving his base or strength all that much. Stanford has a fabulous S&C program, and he's likely near topped out in those facets. If you don't want to take my word for it, check out NFL.com's combine review of him. Says pretty much the same thing.

 

Rock's struggles are very different than Oke's. Rock is not struggling with size or strength, he's adjusting to scheme and is raw (needs to refine technique). He's also drinking from a fire hose and was leading the team in D snaps as a rook before he got dinged up. Rock's struggles are a perfect example of player who "clicks" after a year. Oke's struggles are more due to limited natural attributes.

I love what Oke is doing, and I love the way we are using him. His stats are improving because we are using him correctly and to his strengths (switch to SAM and in limited passing downs at MIKE), and not using him on the inside vs the run where he is weak. I'd love to be wrong, but IMO you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think he's going become and every down MLB/MIKE. He's just not built to be, or become that guy.

I don't agree with everything you post EastStreet but this is a great post and some great discussion of different players and their strengths and weaknesses.

[EastStreet]

11 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't agree with everything you post EastStreet but this is a great post and some great discussion of different players and their strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks Coffeedrinker. Appreciate the thumbs up. 

 

On Oke, my analysis of him shouldn't be taken as just criticism. It's actually praise of him (and the coaches) for finding the right niche to showcase his talents and help the team. He's definitely one of the 3 best guys we have at LB, and we're a better team with him on the field at SAM.

 

Even at Stanford he was probably played out of position because he was one of the 4 best LBers, but they needed most help in the middle. I think he'll be a very solid contributor for many years to come, just not early downs in the middle. I know he has off the field flags, but from everything I've read, he's a hard worker, and a nose for the ball. 

 

Now that he's settle into a steady role, I'd really like to see Speed make some jumps. He's a long shot and very raw, but has the attributes to make a jump after a year or so of quality S&C.