Grantland Podcast 19/01/15

[SteelCityColt]

Just thought I'd share this for the those interested in football discussion, there's a good breakdown IMO of where the game went wrong for us but more interestingly a very good critique of how our roster has been built and a quite telling comparison to the Pats method, especially when it comes to the draft. 

 

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=12194883

 

My biggest take away was how the Pats draft expecting to have busts so try to increase their number of picks as much as possible to give themselves more "gambles" while the Colts have burn picks reaching for players (either in the draft or in trade). Some have worked out, but long term it's damaged the talent and depth of the roster. 

[southwest1]

When did QB RW become the NFL Jesus? He stunk up the joint for 3 and a half QTRs & got lucky in the last 3 minutes of overtime & I'm supposed to elevate him to supreme field general status? Give me a break. 

 

This RW idol worship, love fest has seriously got to stop. One onside kick miracle, a Beast Mode TD, & a once in a lifetime 2 point conversion & RW is a man of destiny? Make me punk... 

 

I watched this man play football at Camp Randall at UW-Madison. He's a good kid, makes solid decisions on the field, but darn it, he's not elite. Knock it off! 

 

Okay, I'm admit. I'm being a little sarcastic with my RW Jesus comment, but seriously football to me is all about how you perform on game day not your personal life off the field. I don't care who you divorced & I'm sorry you're dad passed away man, but darn it, was your ex wife or dad making blocks for you or scoring TDs for you? No, they weren't. 

 

I view games like I view movies. I don't care about pre production or struggles before hand. I just judge the final product or end result & you sucked for 3 & a half QTRs with 4 picks & 5 sacks. You don't deserve to be playing in the SB. Facts are facts. Lynch carried you to victory RW. Plain & simple. 

[SteelCityColt]

When did QB RW become the NFL Jesus? He stunk up the joint for 3 and a half QTRs & got lucky in the last 3 minutes of overtime & I'm supposed to elevate him to supreme field general status? Give me a break. 

 

This RW idol worship love fest has seriously got to stop. One onside kick miracle, a Beast Mode TD, & a once in a lifetime 2 point conversion & RW is a man of destiny? Make me punk... 

 

I watched this man play football at Camp Randall at UW-Madison. He's a good kid, makes solid decisions on the field, but darn it, he's not elite. Knock it off! 

Sorry I meant to add that for the Colts breakdown you might want to skip the first half of the show... 

[southwest1]

Sorry I meant to add that for the Colts breakdown you might want to skip the first half of the show... 

I wasn't criticizing you SCC; just these 2 hosts who remind me of 2 know it alls living in their mother's basement & they know almost nothing. 

[ruksak]

When did QB RW become the NFL Jesus? He stunk up the joint for 3 and a half QTRs & got lucky in the last 3 minutes of overtime & I'm supposed to elevate him to supreme field general status? Give me a break. 

 

This RW idol worship, love fest has seriously got to stop. One onside kick miracle, a Beast Mode TD, & a once in a lifetime 2 point conversion & RW is a man of destiny? Make me punk... 

 

I watched this man play football at Camp Randall at UW-Madison. He's a good kid, makes solid decisions on the field, but darn it, he's not elite. Knock it off! 

 

 

I want to touch on Wilson here, and some of the issues regarding the media love for him, as well as why so many people desire to jump the gun a bit with this outstanding young man. 

 

This is sketchy conversation territory, something I know you can handle after so many discussions with you over the years. There are several components to Russell that bring cause for such excitement, and that word is key here....excitement. That's what is fueling the support for him. 

1) People love an underdog story. Russell was overlooked in compare to other QB's in his draft class. Russell is small for QB, the same issue Doug Flutie had to face. Flutie wasn't all that great, he didn't produce to a great extent, but people loved to root for him because everyone embraces the little guy in a David vs Goliath dynamic. 

 

2) Russell Wilson is a charming, charismatic, intelligent young man that presents himself very well. He doesn't sport neck tattoos, grab his groin, get arrested, act like a punk, run his mouth etc. In short, he's likeable, approachable and non-threatening. Marketing agents love this, companies feel safe putting his face on their product. 

 

3) He's the first black QB to win a Super Bowl since Doug Williams did way back in the day. Now he's going back for another shot already. Again, people love this, and I don't blame them for doing so. If there is ever a white cornerback in the league again, I'll root for him too. Not out of racial support, but it would be highly unusual, and I like unusual. I think many people do. You just don't see white cornerbacks in the NFL. Just like for the last near 30 years, we haven't seen a black QB win the Super Bowl. 

 

 

SW, those last two throws he made in OT....brilliant. Perfect. Clutch. Champion-esque. Love him, hate him, bad game before those throws or not.....those throws are the caliber that teams will pay $120 million dollars for a guy that can execute such. 

[ruksak]

Just thought I'd share this for the those interested in football discussion, there's a good breakdown IMO of where the game went wrong for us.....

IMO, where the game went wrong for us had a great deal to do with happenstance regarding the time of possession dynamic between early in 2nd Quarter and bleeding well into the 4th QTR. 

 

The score was 14-7 early in the 2nd QTR. Andrew Luck didn't get to touch the ball again until well into the third, and by then, the score was 24-7. By then, we had no rhythm, we had no momentum or timing on offense. We were sunk. 

 

I sat there in my chair recoiling at the thought of the Pats getting the ball to start the 3rd (again, a happenstance issue dictated by a coin flip). Our defense was ultimately responsible for this, so I feel any criticism of our performance attempting to suss out the "why" of how we lost in such stunningly inept fashion must only point to our defense. 

[southwest1]

Okay, first 1 guy claims that Andrew Luck is in his 4th year as opposed to his 3rd in the NFL. He later corrects himself so he deserves credit for that. Then, the co-host isn't sure if Grigs should be given for drafting Luck in 2012. Grigs didn't make that call Irsay did because it was directly tied to Peyton Manning's fate in Indianapolis. My point here is this: He seems wishy washy on his statements & the confidence & conviction of them. 

 

Now, let's examine this Patriots claim that they make better movies than we do shall we. Bill Belichick's son attended college at Rutgers under then HC Greg Schiano & Bill is close to Alabama Crimson Tide HC Nick Saban as well as soon to be HOF NFL HC Jimmy Johnson. Saban & Johnson are brilliant football scouts/coaches who can clue Bill in on their best talent on campus who they think will thrive at the next level. There's no crime in that of course. It just means that brilliant football minds can only make your selection process easier & when your own son can advise you in on who his best teammates are in the locker room it's definitely an asset in your corner. 

 

These 2 grantland hosts act like Suh could be a big plus for us. Huh? How? Be kneeing opposing QBs in the groin or stepping on them illegally twice just to win a game? We traded for Trent Richardson & that spells bust all over it. Walden hasn't panned out? Are you bleeping kidding me? He's been pretty great. Freeman from Canada doesn't count as a success? Why the hades not? Is Canada a dud zone for football players? Please. 

 

NE is well versed in accumulating picks. Yes, I will grant you that. After INDY beat Denver were these 2 hosts slamming Grigson's draft moves? I sincerely doubt it. So in 1 week Grigs goes from competent to fire his behind? LOL! Get real fellas. 

 

I know they never endorsed cutting him loose, but getting the AFC Championship Game & teams grabbing players off our waver wire during training camp means that Grigs is doing something effective as a talent scout right? 

[SteelCityColt]

NE is well versed in accumulating picks. Yes, I will grant you that. After INDY beat Denver were these 2 hosts slamming Grigson's draft moves? I sincerely doubt it. So in 1 week Grigs goes from competent to fire his behind? LOL! Get real fellas. 

 

To be fair I've listened to and read a lot of what Barnwell's output and he's a pretty clued up guy. Mays.. not so much. 

 

After the Denver game. and pretty much throughout the year they've said we make up for our lack of talent on D with some good game planning and the fact Toler/Davis are good enough to let us play aggressively in coverage. This worked particularly well against Denver because Peyton couldn't hit the deep barn door to save his life that night and we could sell out stopping the run/underneath. 

 

Agree to that Suh would be an awful move, but I think there point was more we need a big talent on D in the front 7, and I don't think they're far wrong there. 

[southwest1]

I want to touch on Wilson here, and some of the issues regarding the media love for him, as well as why so many people desire to jump the gun a bit with this outstanding young man. 

 

This is sketchy conversation territory, something I know you can handle after so many discussions with you over the years. There are several components to Russell that bring cause for such excitement, and that word is key here....excitement. That's what is fueling the support for him. 

1) People love an underdog story. Russell was overlooked in compare to other QB's in his draft class. Russell is small for QB, the same issue Doug Flutie had to face. Flutie wasn't all that great, he didn't produce to a great extent, but people loved to root for him because everyone embraces the little guy in a David vs Goliath dynamic. 

 

2) Russell Wilson is a charming, charismatic, intelligent young man that presents himself very well. He doesn't sport neck tattoos, grab his groin, get arrested, act like a punk, run his mouth etc. In short, he's likeable, approachable and non-threatening. Marketing agents love this, companies feel safe putting his face on their product. 

 

3) He's the first black QB to win a Super Bowl since Doug Williams did way back in the day. Now he's going back for another shot already. Again, people love this, and I don't blame them for doing so. If there is ever a white cornerback in the league again, I'll root for him too. Not out of racial support, but it would be highly unusual, and I like unusual. I think many people do. You just don't see white cornerbacks in the NFL. Just like for the last near 30 years, we haven't seen a black QB win the Super Bowl. 

 

 

SW, those last two throws he made in OT....brilliant. Perfect. Clutch. Champion-esque. Love him, hate him, bad game before those throws or not.....those throws are the caliber that teams will pay $120 million dollars for a guy that can execute such. 

This is a very well well written post ruksak. I'm analyzing RW strictly from his QB play not his media appeal to corporations. I have black relatives in my own family so while I can appreciate by diversity & adversity that RW has risen above & excelled at Warren Moon will garnish more respect from me than RW ever could. That's not to dismiss his NFL accomplishments or his commitment to his Seattle community at large, but rather highlight the harsher struggles his former NFL elders faced which played a role in greater opportunities for black QBs that's all. 

 

Yes, RW played exceptionally well in OT, but without that onside kick blunder on GB's side, RW never gets a chance to shine in the 5th QTR. Yes, you can make the argument that he capitalized on a Packers mistake & made the most of his opportunity that's true, but without that TD from Mr. Marshawn Lynch there's no way RW wins that game either in OT. 

 

Like I said before, I view games strictly in a vacuum based on a 3 hour window & the significance or magnitude of the game itself in much the same way I can watch a Woody Allen film independent of his family related marriage personal life. Legacy comes into play for me collectively when I evaluate a player's entire career in the NFL not game to game. Upbringing & obstacles can not be applied to every game that RW takes a snap in.

 

That's where I stand on RW & I'm not budging 1 inch from that position Ruksak.

 

The underdog metaphor doesn't apply here because the Seahawks were heavily favored to win both of their post season matchups by numerous NFL pundits & fans so that argument loses it's luster very, very quickly.  

[ruksak]

 

 

Yes, RW played exceptionally well in OT, but without that onside kick blunder on GB's side, RW never gets a chance to shine in the 5th QTR. Yes, you can make the argument that he capitalized on a Packers mistake & made the most of his opportunity that's true, but without that TD from Mr. Marshawn Lynch there's no way RW wins that game either in OT. 

 

All true, but I have to say; Put Luck in a similar position and we all know damn well he shines bright. People like to compare them (I realize you did not here), but the supporting cast around RW puts grants him the opportunity to shine. We need to put Andrew in similar positions if we want what RW has. 

[southwest1]

All true, but I have to say; Put Luck in a similar position and we all know damn well he shines bright. People like to compare them (I realize you did not here), but the supporting cast around RW puts grants him the opportunity to shine. We need to put Andrew in similar positions if we want what RW has. 

Good point. The HC & GM put enough pieces around RW & on defense to take pressure off of Wilson to not preoccupy his mind with having to play perfect just to win games. We need to find a way to generate holes & get RBs charging to the 2nd level before Herron, Ballard, or Tipton get touched, let alone stopped. 

 

Plus, I don't know what it is about NE but man, I am growing weary of getting our backsides run over for 3 QTRs. I just don't want so much money wrapped up in our QB that we can't get Luck adequate help more or less like Manning in INDY the bulk of his career. 

 

How does owner Paul Allen shuffle money around & we seem to stumble? Okay, true RW is still on his rookie deal yet with around $900,000 or so, but the Pacific NW seems leap years ahead of where the Colts currently are right now.  

[ruksak]

Good point. The HC & GM put enough pieces around RW & on defense to take pressure off of Wilson to not preoccupy his mind with having to play perfect just to win games. We need to find a way to generate holes & get RBs charging to the 2nd level before Herron, Ballard, or Tipton get touched, let alone stopped. 

 

Plus, I don't know what it is about NE but man, I am growing weary of getting our backsides run over for 3 QTRs. I just don't want so much money wrapped up in our QB that we can't get Luck adequate help more or less like Manning in INDY the bulk of his career. 

 

How does owner Paul Allen shuffle money around & we seem to stumble? Okay, true RW is still on his rookie deal yet with around $900,000 or so, but the Pacific NW seems leap years ahead of where the Colts currently are right now.  

We have to remember that SEA had many of their best pieces already in place before RW was drafted. Including coaches, GM, Lynch and Sherman. They were coming off a [technically] winning season etc etc. Before RW, they had a truly bad QB in Tavaris Jackson. Which goes even further to boost RW's bona fides. That he came in and an immediate impact was seen, in terms of quality at the QB position. Turnovers went way down and scoring went way up. 

 

The Colts, well we all know what happened after 2011. We had Mathis and Wayne left over, and Wayne was just slow, hobbled and ineffective, Mathis of course, not even available. 

 

So they are, in fact, literally years ahead of us. 

 

I implore all Colts fans to understand that we're well on our way, the trajectory IMO not the least bit stymied by being blown out in an AFCCG. That debacle last Sunday night doesn't set us back, it moves us forward. We play, we learn. We can point to underlying statistics, scores etc to see a false sense of regression. But the reality is, we advance 1 step further deeper into the season with each go.

 

We NEED homefield advantage in 2015. That should be the only focus.  

[SteelCityColt]

Good point. The HC & GM put enough pieces around RW & on defense to take pressure off of Wilson to not preoccupy his mind with having to play perfect just to win games. We need to find a way to generate holes & get RBs charging to the 2nd level before Herron, Ballard, or Tipton get touched, let alone stopped. 

 

Plus, I don't know what it is about NE but man, I am growing weary of getting our backsides run over for 3 QTRs. I just don't want so much money wrapped up in our QB that we can't get Luck adequate help more or less like Manning in INDY the bulk of his career. 

 

How does owner Paul Allen shuffle money around & we seem to stumble? Okay, true RW is still on his rookie deal yet with around $900,000 or so, but the Pacific NW seems leap years ahead of where the Colts currently are right now.  

 

Oddly I think we are closer to the Seahawks that the Pats in terms of like them we've done pretty well picking up useful pieces further down the draft. The difference is they've picked up stars in later rounds where TY (and Dwayne Allen aside) we've at best picked up ok starters. 

 

Look at their record since 2010:

 

2010: Kam Chancellor 5th Rounder

2011: K.J Wrigth 3rd Rounder, Sherman 5th Rounder, Byron Maxwell 6th Rounder Malcom Smith 7th Rounder 

2012: Wagner 2nd, JR Sweezy 7th Rounder

2013: So far.. Luke Willson 5th Rounder 

 

That's a lot of starters right there... 

[mintor]

To be fair I've listened to and read a lot of what Barnwell's output and he's a pretty clued up guy. Mays.. not so much. 

 

After the Denver game. and pretty much throughout the year they've said we make up for our lack of talent on D with some good game planning and the fact Toler/Davis are good enough to let us play aggressively in coverage. This worked particularly well against Denver because Peyton couldn't hit the deep barn door to save his life that night and we could sell out stopping the run/underneath. 

 

Agree to that Suh would be an awful move, but I think there point was more we need a big talent on D in the front 7, and I don't think they're far wrong there. 

 

 

dude manning was injury in that game why he could hit any targets. easy win the colts.  was john fox fault manning should stay out last 2 reg season games too heal up . hint why fox was fired. buck stops at the HC.  letting manning play hurt  for the last 2 reg season games  was dum .  cause them too lose against the colts.

[bababooey]

dude manning was injury in that game why he could hit any targets. easy win the colts.  was john fox fault manning should stay out last 2 reg season games too heal up . hint why fox was fired. buck stops at the HC.  letting manning play hurt  for the last 2 reg season games  was dum .  cause them too lose against the colts.

I've been reading several of your posts today. You need to work on your grammar.

[lollygagger8]

Look at their record since 2010:

 

2010: Kam Chancellor 5th Rounder

2011: K.J Wrigth 3rd Rounder, Sherman 5th Rounder, Byron Maxwell 6th Rounder Malcom Smith 7th Rounder 

2012: Wagner 2nd, JR Sweezy 7th Rounder

2013: So far.. Luke Willson 5th Rounder 

 

That's a lot of starters right there... 

 

That's pretty impressive really