The Running QB

[dw49]

Cam lost all his wr

 

 

Agree pretty thin ....although they did draft a star in Kelvin Benjamin in round one.  6'5" 240 Lbs.  57 receptions 824 yards 8 TD's. Pretty good TE in Olson but dismal beyond those two guys.

[Superman]

Agree pretty thin ....although they did draft a star in Kelvin Benjamin in round one. 6'5" 240 Lbs. 57 receptions 824 yards 8 TD's. Pretty good TE in Olson but dismal beyond those two guys.

That's really not Cam's problem. Sure, it affects his performance, but that's just a surface evaluation.

When you watch him play and try to sciut him, you'll see flawed mechanics, starting before the snap with his stance. You'll see poor footwork, slow footwork, lack of recognition of the pass rush, etc. At times, you'll see a very deliberate wind-up and delivery. We talked about Luck not being quick enough to get rid of the ball; Cam takes longer, and gets sacked twice as often, refuses to throw the ball away, etc. These are fundamental issues that will hold him back, no matter who his receivers are.

Also, remember that Cam played one year of D-1, and had major questions about his mechanics and ability to make reads and work through progressions. These issues have popped up at times throughout his career.

[dw49]

That's really not Cam's problem. Sure, it affects his performance, but that's just a surface evaluation.

When you watch him play and try to sciut him, you'll see flawed mechanics, starting before the snap with his stance. You'll see poor footwork, slow footwork, lack of recognition of the pass rush, etc. At times, you'll see a very deliberate wind-up and delivery. We talked about Luck not being quick enough to get rid of the ball; Cam takes longer, and gets sacked twice as often, refuses to throw the ball away, etc. These are fundamental issues that will hold him back, no matter who his receivers are.

Also, remember that Cam played one year of D-1, and had major questions about his mechanics and ability to make reads and work through progressions. These issues have popped up at times throughout his career.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I sounded like I agreed with the poster that Cam is fine and his receivers stunk. I pointed out that he has a good TE and a great rookie WR. I did agree that Carolina did't give him full stable of WR's. But ... yeah I agree with you that Cam is having his troubles to say the least. I think the fact that Carolina hasn't extended him yet (only used to 5th year option so far) , might make one tend to feel this is their thinking too.

[Superman]

I'm sorry if I sounded like I agreed with the poster that Cam is fine and his receivers stunk. I pointed out that he has a good TE and a great rookie WR. I did agree that Carolina did't give him full stable of WR's. But ... yeah I agree with you that Cam is having his troubles to say the least. I think the fact that Carolina hasn't extended him yet (only used to 5th year option so far) , might make one tend to feel this is their thinking too.

You didn't. I'm just talking.

As for his contract, I don't know what the plan is. He's the first QB with the fifth year option, so I don't know if the problem is with precedent or production, or probably a mix of both. Problem is that if he doesn't set a precedent, then it's left up to Luck. It's part of the reason I think it might be a while before Luck's new deal gets done.

[JerodMayo51]

It is scary to think he can improve much more but I'm sure he can. I think a lot of this will be contingent upon building a feasible OL. Colts fans are very fortunate that he's a young tank and hasn't been injured yet with the way this OL protects him.

Over the years we've seen how Manning and Brady can play while being sacked, pressured and knocked on their butts a dozen time in a game, Luck is no different. Manning and Brady have also had the leisure of playing behind some all world OLs in which Luck hasn't. This thing has to get fixed, paving way for more room for Lucks improvment.

Yea I think the Colts need to start getting real serious about beefing up the trenches on both sides of the ball.

It doesn't help a young QBs development or confidence when he's running for his life and getting pounded into the ground by 300+lb lineman

[dw49]

You didn't. I'm just talking.

As for his contract, I don't know what the plan is. He's the first QB with the fifth year option, so I don't know if the problem is with precedent or production, or probably a mix of both. Problem is that if he doesn't set a precedent, then it's left up to Luck. It's part of the reason I think it might be a while before Luck's new deal gets done.

 

 

I think the problem would be that Newton is looking for one of those top 5 deals and Carolina is not sure he's worth it or has earned it. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think it will have or has any effect on negotiations that can start with Luck after this year is completed. They'll for sure take the 5th year option before the 2015 draft. Then it shouldn't really take any precedent to reach a longer deal if both sides desire one. Don't you think it will be much like just extending a player before his deal is up ? Not a lot different than what the Packers did with Aaron Rodgers .. I think twice. They can probably save a few long range $'s if they extend him in the 2015 year. That way Luck benefits by receiving a big chunk (signing bonus) of money in a year where he was scheduled to collect 3.4 mill. I think if the Colts wait until 2016 , they lose leverage as AL would receive around 15 mill as a base salary anyway. Plus you have the inflation factor. Makes little sense to wait until 2017 to do the deal as he would be a free agent and you have the added inflation. I think we'll see a extension shortly after they use the 5th year option.

[Superman]

I think the problem would be that Newton is looking for one of those top 5 deals and Carolina is not sure he's worth it or has earned it. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think it will have or has any effect on negotiations that can start with Luck after this year is completed. They'll for sure take the 5th year option before the 2015 draft. Then it shouldn't really take any precedent to reach a longer deal if both sides desire one. Don't you think it will be much like just extending a player before his deal is up ? Not a lot different than what the Packers did with Aaron Rodgers .. I think twice. They can probably save a few long range $'s if they extend him in the 2015 year. That way Luck benefits by receiving a big chunk (signing bonus) of money in a year where he was scheduled to collect 3.4 mill. I think if the Colts wait until 2016 , they lose leverage as AL would receive around 15 mill as a base salary anyway. Plus you have the inflation factor. Makes little sense to wait until 2017 to do the deal as he would be a free agent and you have the added inflation. I think we'll see a extension shortly after they use the 5th year option.

Whenever Luck re-signs, I believe it will be a record-setting, top five QB deal. There's no saving long range dollars or using leverage, I don't think, unless Luck and his people want to be nice.

And I think Luck's people would wait for Russell Wilson, at least, and if they could, they'd wait for Eli, Ben and Rivers who are up in 2016. If any of those guys push the mark past $22m, the QB market changes. I don't think they're just trying to grab money, but I also don't think they want to be undercut by acting too quickly in a market that could potentially change drastically.

::shrugs::

[JerodMayo51]

Whenever Luck re-signs, I believe it will be a record-setting, top five QB deal. There's no saving long range dollars or using leverage, I don't think, unless Luck and his people want to be nice.

And I think Luck's people would wait for Russell Wilson, at least, and if they could, they'd wait for Eli, Ben and Rivers who are up in 2016. If any of those guys push the mark past $22m, the QB market changes. I don't think they're just trying to grab money, but I also don't think they want to be undercut by acting too quickly in a market that could potentially change drastically.

::shrugs::

I always thought winning a super bowl put a QB in a different tier in the market, but Tony Romo and Jay Cutler proved otherwise

[dw49]

Whenever Luck re-signs, I believe it will be a record-setting, top five QB deal. There's no saving long range dollars or using leverage, I don't think, unless Luck and his people want to be nice.

And I think Luck's people would wait for Russell Wilson, at least, and if they could, they'd wait for Eli, Ben and Rivers who are up in 2016. If any of those guys push the mark past $22m, the QB market changes. I don't think they're just trying to grab money, but I also don't think they want to be undercut by acting too quickly in a market that could potentially change drastically.

::shrugs::

 

 

What I meant by saving $'s long term is done all the time when players are extended before their first contract is completed. That's how I think GB did a deal with Rodgers that never will exceed 21 million. Baseball does it all the time also . For instance .. Andrew McCutchen signed a 6 year deal for 51 million a few years back. If he decided to wait until he was eligible for FA , he could have expected to earn probably upward of 16-17 mill per year. Why did he sign the extension ? Security against something happening to wreck his career.  You give the big $'s early and the player gives back some in total $'s to make it a win -win deal.

 

So while I agree that Luck will not sign nothing stupid and "give away " money , I do think that he has a good chance to be extended before the 2015 season starts. I think Russell Wilson would be the guy that could effect the contract. I don't agree at all on ELI. Maybe Ben and Rivers...

[Superman]

I always thought winning a super bowl put a QB in a different tier in the market, but Tony Romo and Jay Cutler proved otherwise

You can't win without a good QB. Supply and demand.

[Superman]

What I meant by saving $'s long term is done all the time when players are extended before their first contract is completed. That's how I think GB did a deal with Rodgers that never will exceed 21 million. Baseball does it all the time also . For instance .. Andrew McCutchen signed a 6 year deal for 51 million a few years back. If he decided to wait until he was eligible for FA , he could have expected to earn probably upward of 16-17 mill per year. Why did he sign the extension ? Security against something happening to wreck his career. You give the big $'s early and the player gives back some in total $'s to make it a win -win deal.

So while I agree that Luck will not sign nothing stupid and "give away " money , I do think that he has a good chance to be extended before the 2015 season starts. I think Russell Wilson would be the guy that could effect the contract. I don't agree at all on ELI. Maybe Ben and Rivers...

Rodgers' new money makes him the highest paid player in the league, though. That's what I'm saying. Even if they get him done a year early, which would be good for all parties, it's still probably going to be record-setting setting, whether it's average or guarantees, or both.

And you just never know with other contracts. If one of those teams makes their guy the highest paid, it raises Luck's value. That's why I think his people would want to wait. The saving grace might be that his uncle is his agent, and I don't think he represents anyone else, and maybe he doesn't want to. If that's the case, he's not worried about being able to tell his other clients that he can get then top dollar, yadda yadda. So if another QB out-does Luck right after, it doesn't really matter.

I don't know. I just think there's a lot of potential for the market for top QBs to go up in the next two years. No potential for it to come down. So the only risk for Luck is injury, and he plays a well-protected position. He's also not trying to lift his family out of poverty, and is already paid well enough to do pretty much whatever he wants. He could sign a $100m shoe deal tomorrow if he wished to pursue it. He could make big money if he needed to. Waiting favors him.

[dw49]

Rodgers' new money makes him the highest paid player in the league, though. That's what I'm saying. Even if they get him done a year early, which would be good for all parties, it's still probably going to be record-setting setting, whether it's average or guarantees, or both.

And you just never know with other contracts. If one of those teams makes their guy the highest paid, it raises Luck's value. That's why I think his people would want to wait. The saving grace might be that his uncle is his agent, and I don't think he represents anyone else, and maybe he doesn't want to. If that's the case, he's not worried about being able to tell his other clients that he can get then top dollar, yadda yadda. So if another QB out-does Luck right after, it doesn't really matter.

I don't know. I just think there's a lot of potential for the market for top QBs to go up in the next two years. No potential for it to come down. So the only risk for Luck is injury, and he plays a well-protected position. He's also not trying to lift his family out of poverty, and is already paid well enough to do pretty much whatever he wants. He could sign a $100m shoe deal tomorrow if he wished to pursue it. He could make big money if he needed to. Waiting favors him.

 

 

Yeah... agree with everything but maybe the last one. I think if the team came to him and said getting a deal done before the 2016 season would help them manage the cap and possibly keep another guy from his rookie deal ... I think he does it. Like you say he's going to be swimming in money and if he was offered a deal at fair market , I think he takes it.