Yehoodi Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Forgive my ignorance please, but what is GOAT status?yah it took me a few times to figure it out when i first saw it too a while back . . . I thought the people were referring to "goat" as in a person that ruins it for the others, or a players that makes the mistake that costs his team a game . . . it is funny as they are both spelled and pernounced the same . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Based on this argument, Brett Favre is the 2nd best QB of all time.God, I hope that's not true.I would put Favre in my top five, like I said, that's the thing about this arguement there is no set rules based on how you judge it. So no one is ever going to win the arguement. That's why I laugh when I see both Colts and Pats fans start threads at times that say "Proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that Manning/Brady is the greatest of all time" or "No one can now argue Manning/Brady's status as the greatest of all time" or "The debate about who is the greatest of all-time is now over and Manning/Brady won." It all comes down to what people think. There are strong cases to be made for Manning, Brady, Favre, Montana and a handful of other QBs depending on how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdavey Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Friendly reminder you are on a COLTS forum. When you dis our beloved QB, it could start a fight in a time when fans are worried about his health and on edge. Remember to show P. Manning some respect. Like another poster said, Super Bowls are won by team.. not by one individual.oh i think he's one of the greats, just not #1 i have montana elway and brady above him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdavey Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Hahahahaha...thats like saying robert horry is the greatest basketball player ever because he has 7 and michael jordan only has 6, and magic johnson has less...not a good argument at all. pointless to debate...makes more sense than calling robert horry the joe montana of the nba.....that's kinda ...no actually, that's very stupid lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdavey Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Enh if he doesn't he doesn't. Dan Marino didn't have a great Super Bowl but it doesn't seem to hurt what people thought about him for the long run.actually it doesthat's why people place marino under guys like montana elway brady and peyton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdavey Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I see so you're only including his 1st SB run? Well he played against 2 top 5 defenses, and his first SB was in the pouring rain. I know it wasn't the best, but the Ravens and Bears had ridiculously good defenses that year.I still don't recall Montana leading the leagues worst run defense into the playoffs.Jo Mo is a legend, and is arguably the best ever. But people left out all his flaws or his not so good times. I guess his 4SB wins makes everyone completely oblivious to them.just the fact peyton's 1-1 in superbowls also makes him less than 1sti mean heck, even his playoff record for years was pretty badbefore that one sb win, he was known as a chokereven one of the mvps he was awarded, shoulda been favre's...easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 actually it doesthat's why people place marino under guys like montana elway brady and peytonbut he's still in conversation as one of the all-time greats which is my point. People don't go oh Marino never played great in a Super Bowl he's not a great QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 just the fact peyton's 1-1 in superbowls also makes him less than 1sti mean heck, even his playoff record for years was pretty badbefore that one sb win, he was known as a chokereven one of the mvps he was awarded, shoulda been favre's...easilyIn your opinion clearly others disagreed with you which is why Manning won it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdavey Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 i actually have so much more respect for peyton as a person than a playerIMO he's been THE ambassador of the nfl, helping even other team's players in the offseason, calling players up who are maybe not adjusting to the nfl life or speed of the gamei love the guy , i just don't think he's the best ever, and i don't think all of his mvp awards were 100% deservedbut as a person, he's awesome.as a person, i'd rank him above any other qb i ranked above him as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 just the fact peyton's 1-1 in superbowls also makes him less than 1sti mean heck, even his playoff record for years was pretty badbefore that one sb win, he was known as a chokereven one of the mvps he was awarded, shoulda been favre's...easily1) Only to those who look no further than Super Bowls. Makes absolutely no sense in a team sport. 2) Only to Patriot fans and perhaps people who look no further than item number one. "Choker" is pretty inflammatory by the way. 3) I've never heard that one before. Anywhere. I had to look back to even guess what year you might be talking about. Assuming 2009, Peyton had 39 1/2 votes, Brees 7 1/2, Rivers 2, Favre 4th with a single vote. That's hardly a ringing endorsement for your position. And I'm a fan of Favre's by the way. My wife likes the Packers and so I warmed to them over the years. I have no idea who is the best ever, but Manning, Favre and Marino are all in the conversation as far as I'm concerned - but your arguments aren't sufficient to differentiate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 i actually have so much more respect for peyton as a person than a playerIMO he's been THE ambassador of the nfl, helping even other team's players in the offseason, calling players up who are maybe not adjusting to the nfl life or speed of the gamei love the guy , i just don't think he's the best ever, and i don't think all of his mvp awards were 100% deservedbut as a person, he's awesome.as a person, i'd rank him above any other qb i ranked above him as a player.Well I think it's safe to say others disagree with your opinions about Manning's spot in NFL history and his MVP awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandSteamer Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Where would you place Peyton if Kerry Collins leads us to a SB victory this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdavey Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Where would you place Peyton if Kerry Collins leads us to a SB victory this year?if he goes 11-5 (KC) he's basically pulling a matt cassel but with a playoff berth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manning2Wayne Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 No. He already is.+1i said yes, but he is the best qb to play the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPats Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Because they know that tom brady could never do what manning did and change the whole franchise around.I'm not disagreeing with any subjective GOAT opinions here, but it always kinds of surprises me when I see something along these lines. The Patriots were not the Patriots you know and hate today in the pre-Tom Brady era. They were a team on the decline... 5-11 the year before he started, and 0-2 when he took over. With the same roster of teammates, Brady led them to the division title and Super Bowl win after becoming the starter and the Patriots have never looked back.I know that Bledsoe played in the AFC Championship Game that season, and I know that Matt Cassel did an admirable job filling in for him in '08. But as a fan of NE since the late 70s, I can tell you that Brady is as responsible for turning around the franchise as much as Belichick or anyone else.Don't get me wrong here... Manning is the definition of a franchise player, and one of the all-time greats. Easily top five or maybe even top three. But as others have said, the GOAT discussion is generally a waste of time because it's all about opinions, and it would take an unrealistic turn of miraculous events for there to ever be a consensus "best of all time." It's like arguing about the best flavor of ice cream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yehoodi Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I would put Favre in my top five, like I said, that's the thing about this arguement there is no set rules based on how you judge it. So no one is ever going to win the arguement. That's why I laugh when I see both Colts and Pats fans start threads at times that say "Proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that Manning/Brady is the greatest of all time" or "No one can now argue Manning/Brady's status as the greatest of all time" or "The debate about who is the greatest of all-time is now over and Manning/Brady won." It all comes down to what people think. There are strong cases to be made for Manning, Brady, Favre, Montana and a handful of other QBs depending on how you look at it.agreed, it is subject to opinion . . . and the bigger problem is the fact that some like to use stats to help support their argument (i.e. Farve, Manning and Brady) . . . but that is related to how the game has been played (i.e. more emphasis on the run versus pass and vice versa) and the rules changes which might favor a more passing attack . . . Indeed my responses to those who want to freeze today and look at the stats today and going back, I always look at a guy like Doug Flutie . . . and QB that is "too short" to make it today football leaque and thus was not one of the top 32 QBs of his generation . . . but if for some reason in the future the NFL converts and mirrors the CFL, a guy like Doug Flutie, who is note even the "top 32" of his generation, would via the stats, be considered one of the greatest player of all time . . . in the CFL he collected 3 titles w/ 3 MVPS, 6 MOPs awards, and googles of stats in a 7 year period . . . so there is a sitaution where many of us would not consider this player among the top 32 at his position today, but would have to hear how some in the future, say 20 years hence, tought his greatness as the best ever . . . funny how opinion can be . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manning2Wayne Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm not disagreeing with any subjective GOAT opinions here, but it always kinds of surprises me when I see something along these lines. The Patriots were not the Patriots you know and hate today in the pre-Tom Brady era. They were a team on the decline... 5-11 the year before he started, and 0-2 when he took over. With the same roster of teammates, Brady led them to the division title and Super Bowl win after becoming the starter and the Patriots have never looked back.I know that Bledsoe played in the AFC Championship Game that season, and I know that Matt Cassel did an admirable job filling in for him in '08. But as a fan of NE since the late 70s, I can tell you that Brady is as responsible for turning around the franchise as much as Belichick or anyone else.Don't get me wrong here... Manning is the definition of a franchise player, and one of the all-time greats. Easily top five or maybe even top three. But as others have said, the GOAT discussion is generally a waste of time because it's all about opinions, and it would take an unrealistic turn of miraculous events for there to ever be a consensus "best of all time." It's like arguing about the best flavor of ice cream.really, not to sound like an *, I realy feel belichick, is invaluable, and is the single reason why he he turned that franchise around, he puts all players in a position to succeed, be it bledsoe, brady, or casselb.b is genius, well, maybe, manning might got him figured out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yehoodi Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 really, not to sound like an *, I realy feel belichick, is invaluable, and is the single reason why he he turned that franchise around, he puts all players in a position to succeed, be it bledsoe, brady, or casselb.b is genius, well, maybe, manning might got him figured outyou may sound like an *, but the great coach-great qb will always be a chicken and egg/which came first argument . . .unless of coarse one of them had great success at that given position outside of the relationship . . . but typically one needs the other and vice versa . . . up until game of Brady replacing Bledsoe, BB was 41-55 as a head coach and 5-13 as the HC of the pats . . . till that point he as view as a great DC with a slightly less then exciting personality and best known for this peanut butter ahd jelly sandwich recipe . . . but once Brady enters the picture, we have 3 SBs titles the success of the last decade and all of sudden BB is King (and i dont mean the musician) . . . now it is the combination both TB/BB and perhaps not one or the other . . . but really its just a typically great coach-great QB relations where one needs the ohter . . . look for example of all of the other great DC and OC that have come out of NE, Wiess, Romeo C., Josh M., Ed Magini, all great od/oc, some with multi rings at those positions (like BB), but as HCs failed and are not out of football or back to coordinators jobs, now if some of them had hooked up with an HOF QB and won a ring or two all of those fired coaches would be viewed as and HOF caliber coach . . . if BB does not keep TB in as a starter when Beldsoe was healthly, he very likely does not win the SBs and it likely back to his DC job in the middle part of the decade following the same path as coached mentioned above, get coordinators but not a good HC . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steagles Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Given those extreme circumstances, yes, yes he would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremecoltsfan300 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 This could actually be a real possibility. Peyton's return is around week 7 (that is a more optimisitic view on his return, but this whole injury seems to defy the normal timeline so who knows). Peyton has had a ton of winning streaks and who is to say he can't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uljaz Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 No. He already is.First, sorry to hear about Manning. As a NE fan, I can relate to how the Colts fans must feel.As far as this "who is the greatest" debate is concerned, with all due respect, I and most independent observers and experts disagree. I personally still consider Joe Montana the greatest I have seen play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdavey Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 First, sorry to hear about Manning. As a NE fan, I can relate to how the Colts fans must feel.As far as this "who is the greatest" debate is concerned, with all due respect, I and most independent observers and experts disagree. I personally still consider Joe Montana the greatest I have seen play.yup....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorColts Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 No. He already is.Couldn't agree more! He's already the best ever, no questions asked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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