Pagono May Want Us To Draft Defense First

[IcyRhythms]

People need to understand that just because so called specialists and analysts make claims that guys like Luck are "NFL ready" doesn't actually mean that he/they are. The NFL is a completely different game. If you talk to the vast majority of NFL players what changed in the transition to the NFL more than anything else, they would all say SPEED. Among other things that factor in, guys like Luck come to the NFL and find that they were never ready for the change in speed. We will see and only time will tell.

[WSO]

There have been plenty of great NFL prospects. Sometimes, they don't work out.

And how many of those that didnt work out were Elway, Manning and Ryan? ESPN did a segment comparing their mechanics, footwork, accuracy etc. to Luck. You are twisting my words. The original statement was in terms of NFL prospects, Luck is in the same category as Manning, Elway and Ryan.

[WSO]

Because I trust Manning's ability to heal a lot more than I trust some unknown.

Let's not forget that Manning played 5 seasons, including 2 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs with the injury.

Now it has been repaired. My money is on Manning, the safer bet.

Lets not forget it took Manning 3 surgeries, including one season with no football. Also it has not been repaired. If it was Manning would be healthy right now and he is not. A lot of you fans are taking a leap of faith or are flat out lying. Manning as we speak is still healing. Prior to this season he complained about arm strength.

[swifty1812]

I can honestly see the logic on both sides. If Pagano wants to switch us up to a 3-4, the main piece for that would be a NT. There are two ways we could do that, we could sign a FA like Soliai, Pouha, or Garay. Or they could draft one, and if you want the best NT prospect in Dontari Poe, you are going to need to get him in the 1st round.

Again I think all of this revolves around Manning and the shape his neck is in. They have said numerous times that it is all based off of Nerve Regeneration, the way it sounded as of Dec 22, the nerve is starting to regenerate. If that is the case, there is nothing that says manning can't play 3-4 more years.

[JWF]

People need to understand that just because so called specialists and analysts make claims that guys like Luck are "NFL ready" doesn't actually mean that he/they are. The NFL is a completely different game. If you talk to the vast majority of NFL players what changed in the transition to the NFL more than anything else, they would all say SPEED. Among other things that factor in, guys like Luck come to the NFL and find that they were never ready for the change in speed. We will see and only time will tell.

I dont think they mean he will come in and win 12 games as a rookie (especially on this awful team) but they mean he has the least transitioning to worry about (mechanics, footwork, taking snaps from under center, pre-snap reads and audibles). He's going to struggle at times if Peyton isnt back and he has to start.

I do agree that Luck will have to get use to the speed difference but so will any rookie we draft, including all of these supposed defensive players we could pickup by trading the #1...you know...the ones that will help turn this 2-14 team around to a SB contender in one season.

[swifty1812]

Lets not forget it took Manning 3 surgeries, including one season with no football. Also it has not been repaired. If it was Manning would be healthy right now and he is not. A lot of you fans are taking a leap of faith or are flat out lying. Manning as we speak is still healing. Prior to this season he complained about arm strength.

That is the thing though, this last surgery fixed the issue of the pinched nerve. the main issue was that nerve regenerating. If he is throwing at 85-90% the nerve is regenerating, a lot of it is based on the nerve regenerating completely and him getting his strength built back up. Yes he is still healing, but more of it is getting back in shape and building his arm back up.

[WSO]

That is the thing though, this last surgery fixed the issue of the pinched nerve. the main issue was that nerve regenerating. If he is throwing at 85-90% the nerve is regenerating, a lot of it is based on the nerve regenerating completely and him getting his strength built back up. Yes he is still healing, but more of it is getting back in shape and building his arm back up.

To me it sounds like until the nerve fully regenerates, its technically not repaired. I'm assuming we are talking about this entire "issue".

[Superman]

So Manning post surgery is not a question mark? You are saying you have proof that Manning post surgery will come in and continue to his old form? I would love to see any evidence of that because if you showed it to Irsay there is without a doubt Manning is the starting QB next year.

Without a doubt Luck is no guarantee, but to say a post-surgery Manning is not a question mark is a huge leap of faith. Simply being medically cleared does not mean Manning will go back to tossing 30 touchdowns or 4000 yards. While I would put my money on he would return to being a great QB there is no guarantee. I dont know how one cannot question Manning post surgery even medically cleared.

To the bolded: That's not what I said. I said Manning is not as big of a question mark as Luck is, assuming he's healthy.

[Superman]

And how many of those that didnt work out were Elway, Manning and Ryan? ESPN did a segment comparing their mechanics, footwork, accuracy etc. to Luck. You are twisting my words. The original statement was in terms of NFL prospects, Luck is in the same category as Manning, Elway and Ryan.

Elway, Manning and Ryan weren't Elway, Manning and Ryan until they actually got in the NFL and proved themselves. Before that, they were just prospects.

There have been tons of prospects with great mechanics that didn't pan out, for whatever reason. And there have been prospects with not so good mechanics that turned into Pro Bowlers. Aaron Rodgers comes to mind.

You don't have to sell me on Luck. I think he's going to be great. But it's not guaranteed, despite the fact that he has great mechanics.

[WSO]

Elway, Manning and Ryan weren't Elway, Manning and Ryan until they actually got in the NFL and proved themselves. Before that, they were just prospects.

There have been tons of prospects with great mechanics that didn't pan out, for whatever reason. And there have been prospects with not so good mechanics that turned into Pro Bowlers. Aaron Rodgers comes to mind.

You don't have to sell me on Luck. I think he's going to be great. But it's not guaranteed, despite the fact that he has great mechanics.

Again you are twisting my words, where did I say they were comparing each other based on their NFL image? They were comparing them to each other coming out of college. These prospects were considered the best of the best. Let me rephrase this so you can understand. They were comparing John Elway, Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan and Andrtew Luck based on their college skillset and how they would fair in the NFL. I have no idea what Aaron Rodgers has to do with this. The argument was that Luck is in the same class as those guys in terms of prospects. You originally thought I was talking about the NFL level and are trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

[WSO]

To the bolded: That's not what I said. I said Manning is not as big of a question mark as Luck is, assuming he's healthy.

But without a doubt he is still a question mark. Manning has no guarantees just like Luck. Neither has an advantage over the other.

[LouisBFree]

The old saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" comes to mind. Unfortunately, at present we have two birds in the bush, and none in hand. I have nightmares in which Luck's face morphs into Ryan Leaf. I have nightmares in which Peyton Manning is picked up by the Patriots and wins the next 10 Super Bowls. I have nightmares in which an Amazonian giantess hangs me from a Sandbox tree, rips off my... wait, that nightmare isn't really relevant.

I simply cannot come to grips with the possibility of letting even a near-healthy Peyton Manning go. I can't... I won't!

[Superman]

But without a doubt he is still a question mark. Manning has no guarantees just like Luck. Neither has an advantage over the other.

I agree with the first two points. I don't agree with the third.

[Superman]

Again you are twisting my words, where did I say they were comparing each other based on their NFL image? They were comparing them to each other coming out of college. These prospects were considered the best of the best. Let me rephrase this so you can understand. They were comparing John Elway, Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan and Andrtew Luck based on their college skillset and how they would fair in the NFL. I have no idea what Aaron Rodgers has to do with this. The argument was that Luck is in the same class as those guys in terms of prospects. You originally thought I was talking about the NFL level and are trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

I'm not trying to dig myself out of anything. The reason ESPN focused on Manning, Elway, and Ryan, is because they became good NFL players. You could profile other highly-rated quarterback prospects who looked great in workouts, who had great mechanics, who were thought to be sure-fire prospects, and compare their college skillset to Manning, Elway and Ryan. Problem is, plenty of them didn't pan out. That's why they didn't compare him to Tim Couch or Ryan Leaf.

[everybodysgotone]

My first though is that Pagono wont want us to use the No.1 overall on a QB..

If he believes Manning is OK...could he talk Irsay and Grigson into dealing the No.1 for Cleveland's No.4 overall..

No. 26 and (we have No. 33) No. 37???

...and take a nose guard, corner, safety and QB (with 33 or 37)?

..we really havent spent many No.1's on defense in the Manning-era

......there oughtta be an inverse concept application attached to your profile on this board to save on bandwidth.

[EdBriggs]

ALL the other options? you mean one other option, being RGIII? no other quarterbacks will be considered, and no other position will be considered other than quarterback.

that makes 2 options. pick.

The mighty Phil J has spoken, there is no need for further discussion. Except that further discussion is needed so phil can keep banging his chest proclaiming how everyone else is wrong, and ^fool^s. Clown.

[Phil J]

The mighty Phil J has spoken, there is no need for further discussion. Except that further discussion is needed so phil can keep banging his chest proclaiming how everyone else is wrong, and ^fool^s. Clown.

lets hear ALLLLLLLLL the other options, big mouth. you started it. list them for me. Hey, lets take Trent Richardson 1st overall!!!! AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA LOL at you.

[WSO]

I'm not trying to dig myself out of anything. The reason ESPN focused on Manning, Elway, and Ryan, is because they became good NFL players. You could profile other highly-rated quarterback prospects who looked great in workouts, who had great mechanics, who were thought to be sure-fire prospects, and compare their college skillset to Manning, Elway and Ryan. Problem is, plenty of them didn't pan out. That's why they didn't compare him to Tim Couch or Ryan Leaf.

They focused on them because they were the best prospects of their era. John Elway coming out of college was the best prospect of the 80s. Manning was the best prospect of the 90s. Ryan has been the best prospect since Manning. Even before their NFL time they were being touted as the best. Back in 1998 Leaf and Manning were close but Leaf had character issues and his work ethic was in question. Mannings biggest weakness was his arm strength which by NFL standards was still very very good. Luck is in the same boat, his biggest weakness is arm strength but its even better than Mannings in 1998. Nobody came close to Elway and Elway is regarded as one of the best prospects of all time. Matt Ryan was being compared very closely to Manning when he came out in 2008. I'm still iffy on Ryan. My point being is they didn't randomly choose 3 prospects based on their NFL image. They have chose the 3 best and put Luck against them as a test. I still dont think you get it. Couch and George were never compared to Elway. Palmer was never compared to Manning. Some 1st overall picks are better prospects than others.

I dont think you understand, they chose those 3 for a reason.