Surprised

[UndecidedFrog]

FROG MAN...

Why can you 'safely say' the 5 points you made...

1) Irsay has said he will use the #1 overall pick on either Luck or RG3, both QBs.

2) Irsay has said that the team is in rebuild mode

3) Irsay has replaced the GM, the HC, the DC, and the OC, yet demoted the old OC to be the QB coach.

4) Media has speculated that he would receive rich offers to play from various NFL teams assuming his arm is back.

5) The 2012 cap numbers show how tight things will be for the Colts if they retain Manning

...may enter into his thinking...about leaving?

I still wonder what gives you that impression.?

Why would drafting his potential successor put leaving on his mind? He has nothing to worry from a rookie

Why would media speculation about rich offers elsewhere put leaving on his mind...? I submit to you that Peyton is well off.

He has deep ties here...His home has been here 1/3 of his life.....all his offensive teammates are still here

...(and he has adoring fans like you) 'Rebuild mode' could include him

If you didnt say or suggest what i thought you said and suggested and you dont 'pretend to know' anything about his thinking.

....then.again....what makes you think he might develop a desire to leave Indy?

'Cause I dont see the reasons...

You asked: "But I dont know where the idea that Manning wants to leave Indianapolis comes from?"

I answered: "It is based on conjecture from the following facts:

1) Irsay has said he will use the #1 overall pick on either Luck or RG3, both QBs.

2) Irsay has said that the team is in rebuild mode

3) Irsay has replaced the GM, the HC, the DC, and the OC, yet demoted the old OC to be the QB coach.

4) Media has speculated that he would receive rich offers to play from various NFL teams assuming his arm is back.

5) The 2012 cap numbers show how tight things will be for the Colts if they retain Manning "

The idea that Manning wants to leave the Colts comes from conjecture based on the above facts.

Conjecture = a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork.

Have I said something wrong? Do you disagree that some people conclude (based on guesswork and deduction) that Manning wants to leave from the above facts?

Are people allowed to interpret those facts differently than you, such that they come up with a different conclusion than you?

If you cannot see the reasons, perhaps it is due to different interpretation of the facts. Are you open to explore these different interpretations?

[oldunclemark]

You asked: "But I dont know where the idea that Manning wants to leave Indianapolis comes from?"

I answered: "It is based on conjecture from the following facts:

1) Irsay has said he will use the #1 overall pick on either Luck or RG3, both QBs.

2) Irsay has said that the team is in rebuild mode

3) Irsay has replaced the GM, the HC, the DC, and the OC, yet demoted the old OC to be the QB coach.

4) Media has speculated that he would receive rich offers to play from various NFL teams assuming his arm is back.

5) The 2012 cap numbers show how tight things will be for the Colts if they retain Manning "

The idea that Manning wants to leave the Colts comes from conjecture based on the above facts.

Conjecture = a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork.

Have I said something wrong? Do you disagree that some people conclude (based on guesswork and deduction) that Manning wants to leave from the above facts?

Are people allowed to interpret those facts differently than you, such that they come up with a different conclusion than you?

If you cannot see the reasons, perhaps it is due to different interpretation of the facts.

I dont think you have said anything for certain.....

You say refer to 'some people'...but not you. You say THE reasons, not YOUR reasons..What's your take ?

I'd like to hear what you think of Manning as an individual with reference to loyalty to the Colts and Indy

.....and why, if financial situations can be resolved an health reasonably

confirmed, that we should or shouldnt keep him?

Gimme some more conjecture. Its a good full-bodied word.

[jedi.creech]

Why did we lose last year?

So the whole reason we lost last year is because we did not have Peyton Manning?

Teams win championships. 1 player does not account for the entire team.

I agree that with Peyton Manning we would've been better than we were last year. But, we still wouldn't of gone very far.

Missing on countless of draft picks in early rounds will make you fill your team with 2nd and 3rd tier talent. Making the team worse and worse over time.

I know we have found diamonds in the rough, but we shouldn't have to if we hit on our draft picks.

The qb position is important to the team and thats why we are going to invest a number 1 overall pick into one in this upcoming draft.

However we have a lot of holes all over the field that need attention too. Also payrolls fill a team because with the new CBA intact owners must use a certain percentage of there payroll on there team.

Sure hope you don't miss with early round draft again... Over hyped player... Easier to miss with one player then 3 players all "missing"

[UndecidedFrog]

I dont think you have said anything for certain.....

You say refer to 'some people'...but not you. You say THE reasons, not YOUR reasons..What's your take ?

Yes, you read correctly. I don't have any take on it. I don't pretend to know what goes on in PM's mind. He may want to leave, he may want to stay. I don't know what factors he will take into consideration or how much he will weigh each factor to come to a decision. However, I have some idea as to what factors others may take into consideration in predicting his decision, as I have already listed.

I'd like to hear what you think of Manning as an individual with reference to loyalty to the Colts and Indy

.....and why, if financial situations can be resolved an health reasonably

confirmed, that we should or shouldnt keep him?

I don't have an opinion on how PM will value loyalty to the Colts and the city of Indianapolis. I have no idea if this loyalty will or will not outweigh his self-esteem as measured by his compensation, or his desire for another SB run with a more ready team that is not rebuilding.

I do have an opinion on the difficulty surrounding the cap situation, which I have shared elsewhere in these forums.

I don't have any knowledge of PM's current arm strength and rehab progress. However, I do have an opinion about it as it stands right now. That opinion is that if PM is 100% back now, that Irsay would not have anything to discuss with him. This leads me to believe that PM is not 100% back now.

Assuming the financial and arm-strength issues are resolved, I still find it difficult to justify keeping PM on the Colts roster because:

1) I think the team is in rebuild mode, and it doesn't make much sense rebuilding with a 36-year-old FHOF QB that is coming off multiple neck surgeries and hasn't played in a year.

2) I think rookie QBs learn much faster when they experience real game situations rather than sitting on the bench.

3) I think the salary cap situation, even with PM taking a drastic haircut on his contract, is still problematic such that many of the higher paid players will not be with the team this upcoming season, which reinforces my thinking that this is a team in full rebuild mode.

Again, the above is my opinion, and I could be wrong.

Gimme some more conjecture. Its a good full-bodied word.

You asked for it, and I provided it.

[oldunclemark]

Yes, you read correctly. I don't have any take on it. I don't pretend to know what goes on in PM's mind. He may want to leave, he may want to stay. I don't know what factors he will take into consideration or how much he will weigh each factor to come to a decision. However, I have some idea as to what factors others may take into consideration in predicting his decision, as I have already listed.

I don't have an opinion on how PM will value loyalty to the Colts and the city of Indianapolis. I have no idea if this loyalty will or will not outweigh his self-esteem as measured by his compensation, or his desire for another SB run with a more ready team that is not rebuilding.

I do have an opinion on the difficulty surrounding the cap situation, which I have shared elsewhere in these forums.

I don't have any knowledge of PM's current arm strength and rehab progress. However, I do have an opinion about it as it stands right now. That opinion is that if PM is 100% back now, that Irsay would not have anything to discuss with him. This leads me to believe that PM is not 100% back now.

Assuming the financial and arm-strength issues are resolved, I still find it difficult to justify keeping PM on the Colts roster because:

1) I think the team is in rebuild mode, and it doesn't make much sense rebuilding with a 36-year-old FHOF QB that is coming off multiple neck surgeries and hasn't played in a year.

2) I think rookie QBs learn much faster when they experience real game situations rather than sitting on the bench.

3) I think the salary cap situation, even with PM taking a drastic haircut on his contract, is still problematic such that many of the higher paid players will not be with the team this upcoming season, which reinforces my thinking that this is a team in full rebuild mode.

Again, the above is my opinion, and I could be wrong.

You asked for it, and I provided it.

That's good conjecture...

Obviously, I dont agree with some of it..but that's been said..

Not too sweet......a few crumbs .....but you put some icing on it.. :cupcake:

.. the effort is appreciated..