shasta519

Agree. The LB room has become really overrated for some reason. Franklin is can ask, but he's not going to get it. If they are extending any d guys into their 30s, it has to be Grover or DeFo.

Hicks is a silly Colts fanboy. Franklin, at best, is a top 5 LB in the AFCS. He's a solid run tackler though.

I don't think most Colts fans would like what they see haha. It would certainly be a reality check.

A big part of that is because they haven't even tried to find a replacement or even legit depth at LG. But Speed is only a replacement because Leonard's play hasn't been good. Speed is not some star being held back. And the Q of the past 2+ years is very much replaceable...at a position that is not too difficult to address. So given two offseasons, I think there would be a replacement option. But again, it's more about the direction the team is taking. It's not anything against Q.

Should he get paid like the top slot CB? We just forget about the past two years? And now he's going to be 29. Just look at this season. Moore hasn't had an aDOT over 5 yards since the LAR game. His aDOT for the entire season is 5.0. That's a massive decrease from the 7-8.5 of the last 3 seasons, when he struggled at times. And that's aDOT is what you see with LBs, not CBs. And the decrease is likely not a coincidence. It's either because the Colts have played terrible QBs recently (true)...OR he's not being asked to defend anything beyond a few yards past the LOS. I think it's a bit of both. And if Bradley made changes, it wasn't to take advantage of Moore's versatility. I really don't see the appeal of paying a 29-31 year-old Kenny Moore at all.

I will own it. He was dog poo for two years. He didn't even have trade value. And while I get the NFL is all about what you have done for met lately, this is largely based on Moore getting a couple of gimme picks against an overloaded rookie on arguably the worst offense in the NFL. That somehow has vaunted him back to being the best slot CB in the NFL. Talk about recency bias. I think if the Colts extend him, they are fools. Letting some other team pay him if he is really the best slot CB in the NFL.

Q has played ok, but certainly not to the level that he is paid. And I don't want him gone in a vacuum. Should also clarify...it can't even be done after this season anyways because of the dead cap hit. But after next season, there is an out. And if he's not playing at a PB or AP level, I would like to see the Colts take it. I was more speaking to Colts loyalty to their guys still being a big thing. I find it refreshing that they are willing to make moves like this.

That will almost certainly be the narrative that will be spun...that the LB room doesn't need him because there's other young talent that needs to play. In reality, Franklin will be 28 next year and Speed will be 29. I think this move is more about financials.

I would love to see them stop doing that. Hell, release Q after this season too. Pay $25M AAV for a LG who is maybe top 10 at the position is wild. Off-topic to your post, but I didn't want to dig around 12 pages of comments. I seem to recall a lot of discussions we had about Leonard's body type and how that could impact his career. Got a lot of flack for it too. But I think this could be it for him.

I knew there was no way that both Leonard and Q would be on this team in 2024. Surprised they waived him in-season...hoping maybe somebody will scoop up the rest of his base salary I guess.

Grigson had $38M in dead cap space from releasing Manning and having to purge the Polian-era bad contracts of Hayden, Addai, Clark, Bullitt and Brackett. The salary cap at the time was only $120M, so that was nearly 1/3. On top of that, Grigson also inherited the final year of Freeney's contract. And at the time, his $19M cap hit was the largest in the NFL (across all positions). And Freeney was a poor fit for Pagano's scheme, so might as well add that to the dead cap...and nearly half of the cap was gone. Regarding the comments about Luck's contract, all Grigson said was: It was little more than expectation-setting because we had seen a lot of FA spending from 2013-15, especially on defense. But now there weren't going to be quick fixes anymore via FA...it was going to be about the draft and player development. But naturally, the local media painted it as Grigson blaming Luck's contract for the performance of the defense. And while Grigson deserved (some) criticism for the defense, that's not what he was doing. He was just being honest and setting expectations. It's especially silly...because when Ballard talks about delayed gratification or says there are no quick fixes (like he did this frickin' offseason), he is praised. But when Grigson does it, he is misconstrued and vilified. Just Exhibit 140A on the double standard that exists between the two GMs.

Why not? A 3-3 record doesn't prevent a GM from being questioned. Ballard's Colts were 3-2-1 in 2022...finished 1-10-1 to go 4-12-1. Ballard's Colts were 9-6 in 2021...finished 0-2 to choke and miss the playoffs. Ballard's Colts were 5-2 in 2019...finished 2-7 to go 7-9. 2020 is seeming to be an outlier. And while Ballard's Colts are 3-3 right now, I wouldn't be surprised if this year goes south in a similar way to those previous seasons, which would make it 4/5 seasons marked by some type of collapse. Many would say poor QB play is the constant. And while that it is true, the real common denominator is Ballard. That said, I don't think anything is happening to Ballard for at least two more years.

Keeping this specific to Ballard, I sort of disagree with the bolded. I do agree that Ballard had some unfavorable conditions, including a bad roster. But most new GMs do as well. But beyond that, I actually think the conditions have been pretty favorable: Luck was injured, but he was here. And few GMs ever get to inherit a franchise QB, even an injured one. Luck did come back in 2018, which is still Ballard's most successful season. Luck retiring was clearly unfavorable, but it really just created a normal scenario for most GMs who have to address QB, instead of some extraordinarily unfavorable condition. And it bought Ballard a very long leash. Luck being hurt and missing 2017 was actually favorable, as it not only gave Ballard a rebuilding year, instead of immediate pressure to succeed...and it led to a top 3 pick in a QB-heavy 2018 draft. To his credit, Ballard was able to take advantage of that situation and turn it into the #6 pick and (3) R2 picks. But that was a massive advantage to accelerate the rebuild. If Ballard didn't have Luck on the roster, QBs like Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen could be punchlines around here...and Ballard could be Director of Football Operations for another team. Instead, he was able to build his reputation on that draft and has been able to hold onto it for several years, despite the mediocre results of this team (and more recent drafts). Ballard inherited a good cap situation. It was his decision to not spend it for the first few years, but cap space was not an issue when he took over. Ballard has a very patient boss, as we have seen. All in all, I think Ballard has had it pretty good. And it's allowed him to likely be in this job for a decade without much success. Some of the stuff is out of his control, but a lot of the issues with this team and roster are self-inflicted by the braintrust. JMO.

That's the thing. He certainly had flashes, but we knew he would do that. What we also saw was inconsistency from drive to drive, quarter to quarter, half to half. Week 1: Played in the 1H against JAC and then his passing cratered in the 2H Week 2: Two TD drives to start and then two 3-and-outs...leaves game Week 4: Bad 1H and great 2H in a comeback effort Week 5: Good start...but then the injury In the games he was knocked out, he was playing well. So that's what people remember. In the LAR game, he played well in the 2H, so that's what people remember. We never really got to see him adjust or see other teams adjust. And it's not like the Colts offense was lighting it up with him on the field. So while there are things to be excited about, some of the advanced stats paint a different picture. And I just don't see how a small sample size of games has convinced 99% of the fanbase that is indeed the future. Not to mention that he still has to recover and get back to 100% from a shoulder surgery. If the Colts' season tanks and they find themselves in position, they have to consider a QB. But that likely won't happen. What could happen though, is that they draft a project QB on Day 2...somebody with a similar playing style. That will provide insurance and continuity to the offense. Plus, then they won't have to pay Minshew a bunch of money (which he should absolutely be asking for since he's playing 85% of the season).

Maybe they were further down the Rhodes with him than JT.

Some of these players played more on the year... Vick Ballard Boom Herron Ahmad Bradshaw (if you add up the games he played for IND, it's probably close to a season) Erik Walden (and his 10 sack season) Donnie Avery (still the most productive WR not named TY, Reggie or MPJ I think) Julian Blackmon (strong start to rookie campaign, but not since) Rodney Thomas (this is a guess) Eric Ebron (monster year with Luck, then just stunk the following year) Chris Reed (great filling in for Q, but then left to MIN)

So is he going to play? When I hear wording like "available to play" it doesn't exactly make it sound it like he's a full go. I wonder if the plan will be to use him in certain packages for a while and then ramp it up from there.

Agree. I understand why JT is doing what he is doing. It's because of the bolded above. He knows what the Colts know...and it's that his role will likely be diminished, which will likely diminish his production and impact his contract value. He won't be able to produce to the level he has shown in the past to secure the contract he wants, especially paired with his injury-plagued 2022 season. I roll my eyes because the Colts already know this, which is partly why they aren't going to pay him as a top 5 or maybe even top 10 RB. The "wait and see how he does" approach is really just to identify how low his value will be, not an opportunity for him to ball out and get the big contract he wants. I still think a trade is the best move going forward for JT. And it does seem like JT is trying to engineer that move. But I also think it's the best course for the Colts as well. Next year's draft class is pretty deep with Day 2 RBs. If they can get back a couple Day 2 picks, they can find a viable replacement that will better fit the reduced role in Steichen's scheme.

I remember that game. It was a blowout. Really wish they had won the week before against HOU.

I mean...technically, JAC blew the game they lost against IND cause they gave up a late TD on 3rd and 10. But NFL games often tend to be close. I just think, for at least this upcoming season, we can't count on the AFCS for a few wins like we could in the past.

If the Colts had made an offer, I think it would have been reported. But who knows.

Hines contract ran through 2022-24. So Hines would have to have been cut before JT's new contract kicked in. I don't see Ballard doing that. And that's sort of a technicality because Ballard would likely put money into JT's 4th season. So really there would have been a two-year overlap from 2023 and 2024. I am not sure what you mean by the narrative about Hines' contract. Many questioned the contract when it was signed. So if Hines was still here, I don't see how it wouldn't be relevant (to at least some) that another RB on the team would be getting paid more to provide a fraction of the production. But I do agree that the Colts aren't obligated to pay him, especially $16M AAV. I actually think trading him is the right course of action because I don't think they want to pay him. But this thread was partly about who is to blame for the situation. The Colts are the ones who have switched course and drawn this line in the sand. They are responding to the RB market, but they are also responding to last season's collapse, which they created. None of the current conditions are on JT, unless he's hiding an injury. He's just reacting to their changes and adjusting his strategy to get paid, like other players are. Also, the Colts won't offer a new commitment right now to JT or anybody else, yet will continue to honor their commitments to several underperforming players (Moore, Kelly, MAC)? Maybe JT's situation is just collateral damage from Ballard handing out bad contracts. But that's not on JT either. The moping around practice is on him. But the idea that he should just "suit up and honor his contract" because the team switched course is a bit of a double standard. If anything, I blame the current RB market and the CBA. But between the team and JT, I don't think it's nearly as one-sided as the poll would suggest. The injury situation makes this much murkier for me as well. We clearly aren't getting all of the facts. I think both sides are putting out information to make the other look worse. I guess it's part of the business though. As for MPJ... while he is also eligible for an extension, JT has a much better track record. IF MPJ had that track record or close to it, I think the conversation/situation would be very different, like it was when Deebo, AJB, Diontae Johnson, DK and McLaurin were entering the final years of their rookie deals. But that's JMO.

Oh it's definitely relevant in JT's mind. That was his teammate in the RB room. I just meant it's not as relevant because it was two years ago and it wasn't a contract on the level that JT is asking for. I remember having this conversation as well. At the time, I thought that deal would all but ensure they would have to pay JT big money and pay him early.

And I am good with that. If they don't want to give him the contract, that's fine. I get the arguments for that. It's the "just wait out this season and we will pay you then" that makes me roll my eyes. I just hope they are able to trade him and get back legit draft capital.

And the rookie contract stipulates that, after 3 years, the player can seek an extension. So they are also honoring the conditions. It's weird that you think it's fine for a team to cut players (and their salaries), but it's bad form for a player to want to be given an extension when he's eligible. And paying other teammates early might mean nothing to you, but it means something to JT.