Defjamz26

Yeah they disappeared because we ran the ball down the Steelers throats…

Great team win Good: -Minshew played like he did early in the season. Played within himself and avoided bonehead throws. -Running game was great. I liked what we saw from Sermon -How long have we been saying that they need to play Cross and that Thomas at FS was an issue?!!! Amazing pick from Cross. -OL played like Bullies and neutralized TJ Bad: -1 special teams mishap on the blocked punt -Pittman injury looked scary in real time. Glad he walked off but hope he doesn’t miss more than a game -I still have my reservations about Bradley’s D playing so soft -I still have reservations about Blackmon’s run defense. Whiffed on another tackle or two in the first half. Overall great improvement from last week. I have been saying from week 1 that IDK why Bradley type cast Cross as a SS where he has everything you need in a FS. If he gets the nod there and they let him play more single high, we can get out of the prevent D and really shut down offenses.

I believe that’s what we drafted Evan Hull for.

Speaking of Robinson, his team mate Adisa Issac is getting some hype right now. He led the Big 10 in sacks with 7.5. He also got a Senior Bowl invite so we’ll see him next month in Mobile. Could be a 3rd round guy. To look into.

I’m glad they are finally giving Cross more reps. I think he’s got so much potential and he can contribute right now. I hope we continue to see more of Mallory as well.

No. This is a poor QB class in general. Williams is overrated and has some character concerns.

Jones is a legitimate starting CB. Aside from some TDs he’s given up to Hopkins and Evans, he’s been lights out. It’s Baker who gives up the big plays, but he’s playing out of necessity. When Brents comes back, it should be fine. Also a real ball hawking FS (and a DC that knows how to use them) is the bigger need. A competent FS breaks up that big pass to Higgins.

Yeah ideally Flowers should be CB3 behind Jones and Brents. But like you said, you need better depth. Aside from the draft, I’d like to see them bring in a veteran corner. Maybe someone like Shaquille Griffin or Nick Needham. We need vets.

Jones? Yes. Brent’s? Definitely was playing great before the injury. But Flowers? No. Can someone explain where the Flowers hype started? I never got it. On ST’s he was electric as a returner. But on defense I never saw it. When did he ever show anything like what Jones is showing now to warrant the hype he had coming into the season?

Won’t mean anything if Bradley is still here. He’ll have them on the bench playing being a UDFA from Spring Hills Community College. This is why unless it’s a position coach, I always think you should let the HC bring his own staff in. Don’t pressure them to retain anyone. IMO the only person Ballard should have campaigned for was Reggie Wayne.

My issue isn’t with Baker getting burned, because we’ve known since week 1 he’s a liability. My issue is with our DC. Why was our worst corner 1-on-1 with Tee Higgins anyways? Also why does Bradley refuse to put safeties on top of the receivers? Thomas isn’t good but idk what the purpose of the FS is in this defense. All it seems Thomas does is make a drag down tackle way after the receiver has already ran for a big game. The same can be said about SS. He says that his SS has a lot of responsibilities, but I’m not seeing it translate to the field. A lot of the issues with the secondary (and really the defense in general) is on Bradley. He has this overly complicated scheme that gets beats by the simplest concepts on offense. The secondary plays scared to not get beat deep and then today they get beat deep. They contained Chase but I still think the plan was flawed. They should’ve put Moore on Chase and put Jones on Higgins with safety help. Jones might have been the only positive from the D today too.

No coaching 101 is knowing the playoffs are on the line and bringing a TE to help chip on that side. You don’t just let your player get beat for a learning experience.

I usually do a good and bad but this was all bad Bad: - Minshew was awful. Always leaving the pocket like he’s AR -our edge rushers don’t hold the edge well at all. Tennessee exposed us last week with that. Running to the perimeter, is always successful for the other team -Safety play wasn’t good. They are absent in the run game and for whatever reason Bradley never puts them over top of receivers -Receivers weren’t good at all -Running game was awful -Offensive line was awful but Steichen did nothing to help Rainman with Hendrickson -Defense had zero sacks. Zero -EJ Speed on the bad ST plays. That one was the beginning of the end all around just awful team performance.

Yes. If he could consistently average games of 3-4 catches and 100+ yards, he’d be a 1.

Diggs being available in a trade is a rare occurrence. Typically those type of guys rarely become available. Thats why you have to draft those type of receivers. If you miss then you miss. Just keep swinging. Plus when you have a good team and can find a replacement quick, no one notices or cares when you miss. Is anyone still talking about the Eagles missing on Jalen Reagor anymore?

Ultimately I think we see things the same. I’m okay with Pittman, but I think despite some of the circumstances surrounding our QB in his tenure, that we know who he is. Like another user said, if he’s got 88 catches on 127 targets, clearly the ball is going to him regardless. But I think we both agree that Pittman is a really good #2 receiver, but not a true number 1 that can lead a dynamic passing attack. I’m not pushing for him to be re-signed unless it’s in the $15-18 million range. And even then we do have to consider that we just re-signed JT and Moss, Moore, Stewart, and Blackmon are also FAs as well. I think it has to be weighed carefully and he isn’t just a no brainer re-sign. Something else I thought of recently that may factor in. We’ve both agreed that even if you keep him you have to keep trying to find that true number 1. Well if you find a guy like that in the draft, that creates an issue with target shares. Pittman is good, Downs has been really good, Pierce still has time on his rookie deals, and we get some production from our TEs. There wouldn’t be enough balls to go around. Thats why I wonder if even if they do bring him back in some way, they don’t trade him if they find that guy. Like if you tag Pittman and get Legette in the draft, and 3 weeks in Legette is AR’s favorite target and is showing he can be that X we’ve been looking for, do you trade Pitt to a contender?

Think of it like Trent Richardson’s rookie year with the Browns. He finished with 950 yards rushing and 11 TDs. Usually anything over 1,000 is good for a RB, so a lot of people would see that and say that’s great. But the shocking part was he averaged 3.3 yards a carry. So basically it’s easy to get 1,000 yards or close to it if you get the ball like 30 times a game and just get 3 yards. But look at JT. He’s the type of back that can get the ball 10 times a game and get 8-10 yards a carry. It’s the same concept for receiver. It’s easy to have 100 yard games if you catch 10-11 passes for 10 yards a game. Especially when a lot of defenses run the same soft zone we do that gives up a lot of space underneath. But when you need to push the ball down the field, that doesn’t help. Ideally you want the guys who can get 80 yards off of 3 catche, because those type of receivers are hard to defend and make opposing teams adjust their entire defense. Again, 14+ is the average for the receivers in the top 10 of yearly money. Basically, when the Titans go back and look at the tape and box score from this past game, they won’t be * at Pittman going 11 for 107 yards and 1 TD for an average of 9.5 YPR. They will have a big issue with Pierce having 100 yards and a TD on 3 catches. Thats the stuff that gets teams beat.

He gave up a TD to Hopkins where the other DB passed the route off to him and he failed to pick it up in time. Outside of that I don’t remember him giving up many big plays. Against the Bucs he also gave up a TD to Evans. But a 7th round rookie corner giving up TDs to Evans and Hopkins isn’t too concerning IMO.

He really is playing lockdown defense.

Xavier Legette is growing on me in the 1st round round. I think he’s DK 2.0. Regardless of if you bring Pittman back or not, I would add him. Ive said openly I think we’re good at corner but I’m seeing more mocks with Kool-Aid falling. I think he’s a really great scheme fit. Would be hard to pass up Dejean I like a lot…but as a safety. I think he can be an elite safety and rookie pro-bowl player. I’d put him at FS, SS, and Nickel depending on the situation. I don’t think outside corner is his best position long term.

It shouldn’t be disregarded. However he’s also had 37 TDs in those last 4 years which is also something I mentioned with Pittman. So while the YPR hasn’t been ideal, he’s offering elite production with scoring to make up for that. I think Pittman should be re-signed just not for top 10 money. Even $20 million is a bit much for me. Especially when I think what he does is replaceable. I don’t think his ability has diminished at all. I don’t think saying he can’t get significantly better than his current average is selling him short. Moreso, I think assuming he’s going to take a big leap in YPR with a full season with AR at the helm is overselling him. There haven’t been enough flashes of big play ability for me to believe that. TBH I’d believe that to be true for Pierce before I’d believe it for Pittman. They are definitely used differently and that’s part of my point. Pierce is used the way he is because he does things that I don’t think Pittman can, but despite the bad QB play and being the 3rd option, still shows the averages you’d like to see for his role. Pittman is used the way he is because he does things that Pierce can’t. Ideally if Pitt was a legit WR1, he should be able to win in multiple ways. A guy like Diggs (even in a down year) can win from the slot, outside, against press, from the Z, against some of the better corners in the league,etc… So I’m not reducing him to one stat. It’s really two: TDs and YPR. But IDK if it’s worth bringing other stats to the table if your counter is always going to be that Pittman has had bad QB play. Which is wild to me because I can go back to D-Hop 2015 who had Brian Hoyer and Brandon Weeden and had 1,500+ yards and 11 TDs. I’ll say this though in closing. For a number 2 possession receiver with “bad” QB play, I think he’s done pretty well. For a supposed Wide receiver 1 I think he’s fallen way short of the mark. I also think if the Colts had a shot getting MHJ or Nabers, no one would be making the case to re-sign Pitt even as the clear cut 2. Everyone would say “We can get Marvin or Nabers in the draft who is a legit WR1. Let Pitt walk and the trio of MHJ/Nabers, Downs, and Pierce can be lethal” And that’s where I’m left at. So much of the “re-sign him” and “He’s the clear WR1” talk is circumstantial.

Every WR can’t be Hill or Chase for sure. I think everyone here agrees with that. That also means if that’s true, then every WR can not be paid like them either, and that’s the argument at hand. Pittman shouldn’t be paid like those guys. He should be paid closer to guys with his production. First downs aren’t an important stat for individual offensive players. Thats more of a team stat tbh. Plus first downs aren’t counted when a player makes a big lay on 1st or 2nd down. For example, if Tyreek Hill catches a 70 yard TD on 2nd and 6, it doesn’t go down on the stat sheet as a 1st down. How is comparing him to Collins, Renfrow, or Dell flawed? What metrics are you using to compare him to other receivers then? We can do size, draft class, or whatever Metric you want to use and see where the data leads.

The problem with circumstance is that everyone has them. To me it’s not fair to single out Pittman as if he has had more unfortunate circumstances than any other receiver. It’s part of the game. I’ve have always been of the belief that elite players produce, regardless of circumstance. As for context, it does play a part but there has to be a track record. For example, when talking about low YPR, you know who else is ranked pretty low? Stefan Diggs. He’s ranked 57th with 11.7. Why does context matter with him? He’s got a proven track record of production where he’s far exceeded those numbers. Pittman has been in the league since 2020 and hasn’t ever eclipsed more than 12.6 YPR in a year. So rather than give context, it’s easier to say that this is probably the norm for him. Bad QB play can’t be the excuse every year. He’s on pace for 1,000 this year as he was in 2021, because he’s the go to target on the team. QBs will get their best receivers the ball (see Mike Evans, DeAndre Hopkins pre-Watson, etc…) regardless. And we just saw Minshew throw the ball deep to Pierce a couple times against the Titans so we can’t use Minshew as the context. Same in 2021 with Wentz. The bad QB had T.Y. Hilton at a 14.4 YPR and he only played 10 games. So I think his production speaks to his ability and not circumstance. The only circumstance you can give him is his rookie year because he missed a bunch of games, and maybe last year because the QB play, Coaching, and O-line were some of the worst we’ve ever seen. But even still…Pierce averaged 14 YPR with the same circumstances last year, just saying.

I see him somewhere in the mold of Juju and Courtland Sutton. And the Sutton comp is still hard for me because the YPR from Pittman is so low. 10.8 is one of the worst YPR for any receiver with as many targets as he’s gotten. Another comparison…both the Texans receivers have a higher YPR. Tank Dell will finish his season with 709 yards and a 15.1 YPR. Nico Collins who has the same build as him is currently at 991 yards on only 59 receptions, which is 16.8 YPR. He’s not even the best receiver in the division. I don’t think people realize that although Pittman is good, 10.2 (for the season) is a really BAD number. That is 94th in the league this season. Yes 94th!!!!

Never said I hated Pittman. Read my responses in the entire thread. I thinks he’s good. Just not a true number 1, which is what you said as well. As for the Renfrow thing, their career Yard per reception is almost identical. Renfrow is at 10.7 while Pittman is 10.8. Renfrow also has 2 more TDs at 17 for his career. Career yardage is close to and Renfrow missed 7 games last year and 10 in his career. I’m not comparing skill set, I’m comparing production. Everyone is praising him coming off of his 100 yard game against the Titans. But look at the stats: 11 catches for 105 yards which was an average of only 9.5 yards. For comparison, Jamar Chase also caught 11 passes in the Monday night game. He did it for 149 yards with a 13.5 YPC. It’s not hate, it’s just an observation of facts. Pittman does not have numbers that support the notion of him being a WR1.