husker61
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Posts posted by husker61
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cherilus's contract doesn't hurt the colts if they cut him after two years, and francois can be cut after one year without hurting the colts. it's like a test drive, i don't see the down side to these deals. if they work out, they are locked in, if not by-by.
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And that's what my original point was: I don't understand why we wouldn't even engage in talks for a long term deal, unless McAfee isn't in the team's long term plans. And that's strange to me. No doubt he's a good specialist, and has value to the team. The savings between a good veteran punter and a good rookie punter are negligible in terms of the cap.
it takes two to tango. that leads me to believe neither party was willing to make a deal. there would be finger pointing from the side that was trying to get a deal done.
i think the savings ($2.5-3 million/year) are great between rookie earning minimum and a veteran.
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"Kicking athletes face a low risk of injury in professional American football."
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i can't think of one, so can someone let me know of a veteran punter that's career ended because of a injury?
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The Colts will be fine on the cap next year.
This is weird. I get that you don't value a punter all that much; that's one issue. But I don't know why anyone would think a player would prefer the franchise tag to a multi year deal.
agreed, they will be fine on the cap, just in a worse negotiation position with pat.
agreed, i don't value punter that much.
once you have a proven ability, it's all about risk of career ending injury.
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how is a field goal kicker at more risk? how often do they make tackles, or blocked too prevent them from making a tackle?
that's just my opinion from watching games.
as far as your second question, there doesn't seem to be a difference.
"The percentage of lateral ankle sprains due to contact did not
differ between punters and placekickers. Shoulder inju-ries, however, were primarily attributed to contact (68%);again, there was no significant difference in the percentageof contact injuries between punters and placekickers. Itmust be considered that both punters and placekickersare at risk for a variety of nonkicking injuries (listed above)when they attempt to tackle the opposing player returningor running with the ball after receiving the kick. This oftenresults in violent, open-field collisions in addition to thepossibility of injury while the kicker is running down thefield attempting to make a tackle.
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And I don't think any team would continue to tag a player year after year.
i agree, and the colts will be in a worse situation next year. that's why i said they should have played hard ball with him this year.
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I disagree, again. A player gets a signing bonus up front, not paid over 17 weeks. That's incentive right there.
Take Andy Lee's contract from 2012: seven years, $21.6m, signing bonus $2.5m. He got that signing bonus when he signed. Then he got his 2012 base salary of $1.1m over the course of the season in 17 payments of approximately $65k.
In McAfee's case, he gets his $2.977m base salary in 17 equal payments over the course of the season. Getting that money up front + a base salary would be more beneficial.
Also, a long term contract has other likely to be paid money worked into it. Lee's contract included a 2013 roster bonus of $1.75m not to mention the base salary (another $1.8m). Mike Scifres' contract included a Year 2 option bonus, and a total of $9m guaranteed (or likely to be paid). There's the likelihood of future earnings that's always associated with a long term contract.
No player would prefer to play on a one year contract when he could do a long term deal. Even a punter.
Lastly, you keep suggesting that punters don't get hurt. Anything could happen to jeopardize any player's future earnings. Connor Barth just tore his Achilles. What if he was playing on a one year contract? Wouldn't that jeopardize his future earning potential?
we will disagree on the value of up front money without the injury factor.
connor barth was hurt off the field (playing basketball), so there is a possibility the team could go after the upfront money if the injury affects his ability to perform. i am not a lawyer or know what clauses are in his contract. this isn't a good example to use. i believe a fg kicker is at more risk of injury than a punter.
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I disagree. Any player, regardless of position, would prefer a long term deal. He said as much in his statement when he was tagged, and in his statement a couple days ago.
i am sure if it is a player friendly contract he would welcome it, but that doesn't help the team. other positions there is a great incentive to get a big signing bonus in exchange for a team friendly back loaded salary long term contract. what incentive would there be to him to not just keep getting franchised with at least a 20% raise every year? i am sure some of what he said is just saying the right things and not burning your bridges.
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A silly argument? You are the one who insist on arguing. How many fans left? Not as many as you think. The games were still sold out.
that's my point. fans don't quit following teams because a player leaves. YOU said fan base is a reason to give him more money.
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Sorry, but this is not true.
There is a reason/motivation for the player to sign a long-term deal.
That way, they get the guaranteed signing bonus money from a multi-year deal up front.
So, this year, McAfee is getting roughly $3 Mill and I believe it's all guaranteed. Great, good for him.
But, if he had signed a long-term deal, he might've gotten $6-8 Mill guaranteed up front in a bonus, and then smaller, more cap friendly salaries for the duration of his deal.
But it's the guaranteed signing bonus money that is the biggest motivation for signing a long-term deal. I have no idea why you didn't acknowledge that?? You seem to know football very well....
the signing bonus is only beneficial if there is a likely risk of career ending injury. that isn't the case with punters. a signing bonus doesn't mean much to punters.
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There's no indication there were any negotiations at all, before or after the tag. That's what's so weird about it.
there is absolutely no incentive for pat to negotiate a long term deal, he is getting everything he wants being franchised.
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Well it is my opinion that a top punter is a top special teams player. Not only does Pat punt he also does the kick offs. He is the main player in special teams. Without him the other special team players wouldn't have the chance to shine. I have no clue in why you have a problem with the Colts paying Pat. There have been a few other's in this forum who agree that Pat is worth the money and have explained why. You value your opinion but it is not shared by most. The Colts paying him the average of what the top 5 punters in the league is not unreasonable considering what else he brings to the field, locker room and the fan base. Stating your opinion is your right but out and out arguing when no one else agrees with you is a dead end street. We will just have to settle to just agree to disagree.
it won't be the first time i disagreed with most fans here or past forums.
i like my record and posted it at the time to the criticism from many:
i didn't like giving sanders that big contract.
i didn't like giving clark that big contract.
i didn't like giving brackett that big contract.
i thought they should have cut harrison after it was clear to me he wasn't the same player.
i thought they should have cut freeney two years before before his contract was up.
i never thought angerer was or will be that top linebacker that almost everyone here said.
none of these opinions were popular when i made them.
i don't dislike pat, he's a very good punter. i just would have played hardball with him and not franchised him.
fan base?? how many fans stopped following the colts after they got rid of edge and manning? that's just a silly argument.
most don't like what the colts did in free agency this year (they want big names), i did. we will see how that turns out.
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The franchise tag is the average of the top five cap hits at the position in 2013.
not true. he would be making a lot more if this was the case.
An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply.
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Top five punters all make over $3m a year. http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/punter/
that is the average for their entire contracts, and a lot of them are back loaded and the players never get that money. if they were making that this year. pat would be getting the average of their salaries for being franchised. i would never pay a punter that much. i would rather have an average (much cheaper) punter and use that money for some top special teams players.
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it is when he is a top five punter making under three million for the season seems pretty smart to me. now next year is another story
that is part of my argument. the colts have painted themselves into a corner for next year. they should have hammered out a deal at this years market price. it will be harder next year to keep him after franchising him.
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Being a franchised punter in the NFL does not mean he will be paid like a RB or QB. Franchise means Pat makes the average pay of the 5 top paid punters in the league. According to Spotrac Pat makes $2,977,000 for this year. What other top 5 punter in the league is as good as Pat? Keep in mind not only does he punt he is the holder for FGs. He kicks FGs. He is the emergency QB. I have seen him line up as a WR in training camp. He is one of the best tacklers on special teams. Is there another punter who is capable of doing all of these things?
really! he has kicked how many fg's in his career??? nobody get payed to be a holder, i would rather the back up qb do it to have a legitimate threat of a fake and good pass. qb, wr, and best tackler?????
some fans of a player will throw anything out there to back up their player.
punters are not important enough to franchise.
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Do you honestly think you know better than Grigson? Could it be that the Colts franchised Pat for 1 year while holding off to see how well Adam Vinatieri is going to do as far as FGs? Pat makes the average pay of the top paid punters in the league as a franchised punter. Pats contract is $2,977,000 per year and Adam's is $3,400,000 per year.
then why hasn't he been signed to a team friendly contract? i guess you think grigson is a perfect gm?
pat has proven nothing as a fg kicker.
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The alternative is clear: negotiate a long term deal with him. It appears there have been no attempts to do so. That's what's strange to me.
that's what i am saying. there is absolutely no incentive for pat to sign a team friendly contract. i'm sure the colts would like to, but it takes two.
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like i said when he was franchised, it was a stupid move!
there is no incentive for a kicker to negotiate a long term contract because he will be payed top money, get a 20% bump next year if he is franchised again, and there is very little chance for career threatening injury. being franchised is a great contract! why should he take less money? the only reason players don't want to be franchised because of risk of career ending injury.
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With that money we'll need to sign:
Heyward-Bey
Bradshaw
Vontae Davis
McAfee
Angerer
Bethea
Plus we have about 20 lesser players becoming FAs.
we don't need to sign bey, bradshaw, or angerer. they have to prove themselves first. i would put conner ahead of angerer. venatieri is also a free agent. i am not sure if mcafee s ready to be a consistent place kicker, taking up more cap space. a team could show 30 million of cap space, but that could be for 35 roster spots under contract. you have to fill the other spots, eating up a lot of the perceived cap space. i doubt there will be a lot of cap space unless the colts don't resign a lot of players on this years roster.
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I bet the Mods lock this soon. If they are being consistent.
i am surprised it has lasted this long.
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Franklin is just insurance Chapman is the starter. Now we know were not drafting a NT looks more and more like were going WR in round 1.
you'r basing this because of his stellar performance last year in the nfl.
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We all know he was never going to play baseball
i think i remember george steinbrenner offering him a big contract at the time. comparable contracts, one in a sport where there is a much greater risk of injury?
Barnwell's Bad Contracts -- two Colts listed
in Colts Football
Posted
it would be 6 million cap hit (10m signing bonus minus 4m already payed), but if he was on the team he would have a cap number of 6.9m his third year.