BlueShoe
-
Posts
8,177 -
Joined
-
Days Won
16
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Events
Blogs
Posts posted by BlueShoe
-
-
18 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:
What you say may or may not be true but with Luck on the field the offense will be just fine. McDaniels has used RB by committee his whole time at New England. I just don't see it changing here in Indy.
Now getting a stud pass rusher would effect the defense a lot more positive than a RB would the offense. We have had enough of powerful offenses that don't have a good enough defense to win playoffs games.
That's just my take on it. Nothing personal.
Do a little research on this guy.
Tom Braatz
LOL
Passing on players like Barkley (Sanders) can end careers.
-
1 minute ago, esmort said:
Nope wouldn't take any of them at #3 under the current circumstances ... If I were drafting for a different team or the Colts were in a different situation I might consider it .. but in current NFL you are not riding your RB to a SB.
You are not riding ANY player form ANY position to the Super Bowl.
So why would you pass up on hall of famers?
That's crazy. That is the "certifiable" thing I was talking about.
-
Just now, crazycolt1 said:
And how many rings does Sanders, Peterson or James have?
That is not their fault.
They rewrote the history books, and did all they could do. A team still has to surround any player with a supporting cast.
-
1 minute ago, esmort said:
Your opinion to label CB "childish, certifiable, etc ... (basically stupid)" over not taking Barkley IS ridiculous.
My opinion is that Chris Ballard is not stupid. Another failure to understand, on your part.
I absolutely believe he will take Saquon Barkley (unless offered a ransom to move back).
I believe Chris Ballard is a very smart man, so the only way he is passing on Barkley is if we take some team to the cleaners.
-
9 minutes ago, esmort said:
"generational" is so over used ... and even if he was I still wouldn't take him at #3 ... wouldn't take AP at #3, wouldn't take Edge at #3, wouldn't take B Sanders at #3 ... The a good RB is good enough. IF we are ever solid at all high value positions than maybe I take luxury pick. Although if we are picking in top 10 odds are we are not solid at the other positions.
It (generational) is not overused by me. I don't just throw that out there.
You are seriously saying that you would not take Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Edgerrin James at No. 3 overall?
That explains a heck of a lot.
The summary of this conversation is that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Thank Jesus, that you are not making decisions for this team.
-
8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:
I see both points of views but I don't think calling someone illogical because they have a different view than you is the way to go. The point that was made that finding a pass rusher is more than likely found in the first round than a RB.
He said my opinion was ridiculous and I told him that his opinion was illogical.
Does it really matter?
Nope.
In the end, Barkley is the best non-quarterback in the 2018 NFL Draft. And it's not even close.
I think Darnold and Barkley are both generational players. We also have some other quarterbacks in this draft that could have Hall of Fame type careers.
-
5 minutes ago, esmort said:
I am thinking about it very logically I just don't have the ridiculous man crush on Barkley that several seem to have.
edit to add... I am not on the Chubb bandwagon either.
The kind of talent that Barkley has doesn't come around very often. Once people realize just how good he is, then it will start to make sense to everyone.
Drafting a running back in the top 3 is a hard thing for some people to accept. However, this situation warrants it.
-
5 minutes ago, esmort said:
I don't see how 2017 makes your point ... the later round RBs are arguably better than the 1st round RBs.
I don't think the point was you cannot get pass rushers later, but that it easier to find serviceable RBs later.
I would rather have a good-very good Pass Rusher and average RB than vice versa. And it is much easier to achieve this by taking a Pass Rusher early and RB later.
If you look through the history of all the drafts then you will find good players at all positions, both early and late in the draft.
People like to say you can get a running back anywhere, but you won't get Barkley anywhere. You have to draft him HIGH. He is a generational running back.
-
Just now, esmort said:
I don't see how 2017 makes your point ... the later round RBs are arguably better than the 1st round RBs.
I don't think the point was you cannot get pass rushers later, but that it easier to find serviceable RBs later.
I would rather have a good-very good Pass Rusher and average RB than vice versa. And it is much easier to achieve this by taking a Pass Rusher early and RB later.
I am taking Fournette over any of those guys. And it is not even close.
Hunt and Kamara had good first years, and they are good backs. However, they are nowhere near as talented as Barkley.
It was a shame the Cook got hurt, because he was having a good year too.
Elliot and Fournette both went very high, because they are absolute bosses on the field. That said, they can both call Saquon, daddy. Barkley is the best back I have seen since Edgerrin James.
4 1 Jaguars Leonard Fournette RB LSU 2 8 1 Panthers Christian McCaffrey RB Stanford 10 41 2 Vikings Dalvin Cook RB Florida State 24 48 2 Bengals Joe Mixon RB Oklahoma 53 67 3 Saints Alvin Kamara RB Tennessee 48 86 3 Chiefs Kareem Hunt RB Toledo 127 89 3 Texans D'Onta Foreman RB Texas 70 105 3 Steelers James Conner RB Pittsburgh 111 114 4 Redskins Samaje Perine RB Oklahoma 54 119 4 Bears Tarik Cohen RB North Carolina A&T 221 121 4 49ers Joe Williams RB Utah 210 132 4 Eagles Donnel Pumphrey RB San Diego State 166 134 4 Packers Jamaal Williams RB BYU 190 140 4 Giants Wayne Gallman RB Clemson 134 143 4 Colts Marlon Mack RB South Florida 140 156 5 Falcons Brian Hill RB Wyoming 101 162 5 Buccaneers Jeremy McNichols RB Boise State 143 179 5 Cardinals T.J. Logan RB North Carolina 197 182 5 Packers Aaron Jones RB UTEP 284 188 6 Jets Elijah McGuire RB Louisiana-Lafayette 242 203 6 Broncos De'Angelo Henderson RB Coastal Carolina 237 206 6 Rams Sam Rogers RB Virginia Tech 240 241 7 Titans Khalfani Muhammad RB California 521 242 7 Raiders Elijah Hood RB North Carolina 270 249 7 Seahawks Christopher Carson RB Oklahoma State 280 252 7 Browns Matt Dayes RB N.C. State 189 -
We either get Barkley or a trade including a map to where they buried Hoffa.
Either way this thing plays out, we win!
-
1 minute ago, esmort said:
That's a ridiculous stance
That is because you are not thinking about this logically.
-
3 minutes ago, esmort said:
Whats this supposed to be proving ... all that matters is where the current starters came from.
if you want to take just one year snapshot lets just use 2017. Rnd 1 - Fournette and McCaffrey ... Rnds 2-4 - Cook, Mixon, Kamara, Hunt, Mack ... What round you think OROY will come from?
I randomly picked years, but 2017 makes my point just as well.
The original poster of this thread is trying to convince us that a great RB can easily be drafted anywhere in the draft, and that pass rushers cannot be.
I am adding some clarity and a sprinkle of reality to the discussion.
-
6 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:
You're kinda missing the point.
Thats the case with EVERY position group. Doesn't matter the year. 256 guys get drafted. Most DONT make it. Especially the late round guys. And obliviously most of the best players are taken in the top.
HOWEVER. It is quite well evidenced that a lot MORE late round backs work out than pass rushers. And most of the solid pass rushers that make it in the NFL are taken round 1. Top 10 specifically. That's really the case with pass rushers and QBs. Most of the best players are taken early. Very hard to find guys like Mathis late in the draft.
Sure. The top round backs are the best probably. Saquon is gonna be a stud. But - and this is the case with all drafts - the colts have a better shot at finding a stud pass rusher at 3, and decent back later, than they do a decent pass rusher late. And in today's NFL, a stud pass rusher helps more than a stud running back. Especially in a pass first offense like ours.
And regarding the Bell stuff, that's just the article I found the comment on. I don't think we should get him at all.
I just showed you 3 random years, all of which makes my point VERY WELL!
Your facts are skewed to fit your opinion.
I think you need to look deeper at what actually happens in an NFL draft.
-
1 minute ago, esmort said:
So if CB doesn't trade back, and doesn't take Barkley he is stupid? Really? That's what you are going base your opinion of him on?
If Chris Ballard turns in the card for the No. 3 overall pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, and passes on Barkley....
Yeah, I am going to call him officially certifiable.
Now, if he gets offered a great deal to move back then I cannot blame him one-bit.
-
2 minutes ago, esmort said:
It still doesn't prove anything ... at the end of the day look at the starting RBs (or committee) for all 32 teams and where they were drafted. Spending the 3rd pick on a RB is not the best use of resources.
Want to try another season? Sure.. Why not?
How about 2009? Just throwing numbers out there...
Yep. These backs are all headed to the Hall of Fame too!
How about you pick the next year for us?
http://footballdungeon.com/draft-results/2009-nfl-draft-results/
12 1 Broncos Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia 27 27 1 Colts Donald Brown RB Connecticut 39 31 1 Cardinals Beanie Wells RB Ohio State 21 53 2 Eagles LeSean McCoy RB Pittsburgh 13 65 3 Jets Shonn Greene RB Iowa 51 74 3 49ers Glen Coffee RB Alabama 137 111 4 Panthers Mike Goodson RB Texas A&M 103 128 4 Panthers Tony Fiammetta RB Syracuse 205 129 4 Giants Andre Brown RB NC State 91 134 4 Chargers Gartrell Johnson RB Colorado State 231 145 5 Packers Quinn Johnson RB LSU 277 169 5 Steelers Frank Summers RB UNLV 235 173 5 Titans Javon Ringer RB Michigan State 128 185 6 Ravens Cedric Peerman RB Virginia 127 192 6 Lions Aaron Brown RB TCU 211 195 6 Browns James Davis RB Clemson 195 209 6 Bengals Bernard Scott RB Abilene Christian 191 211 7 Rams Chris Ogbonnaya RB Texas 198 212 7 Chiefs Javarris Williams RB Tennessee State 274 215 7 Bengals Fui Vakapuna RB BYU 287 221 7 Redskins Eddie Williams RB Idaho 288 240 7 Cardinals LaRod Stephens-Howling RB Pittsburgh 203 250 7 Jaguars Rashad Jennings RB Liberty 56 -
6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:
It has already been reported that the Browns are interested in Allen. If that is true they will take Barkley at number 1 IMO.
I do agree it would be a win-win for the Colts.
Anything is possible.
Allen is the big talk of the draft-season right now. Mel Kiper hyped him up pretty well. And Allen has some real physical traits that cannot be taught. There is also an argument to be made about his surrounding cast, and dropped passes. But he is still a risk at No. 1 overall.
If I were making decisions for Cleveland then I would take Darnold, but that is me betting on the smart money.
We win no matter what the Browns or the Giants do.
-
3 minutes ago, esmort said:
Still almost as bad.
Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't make it any less true.
-
Just now, crazycolt1 said:
I highly doubt that Barkley will be there at #3 anyway. If the Browns don't take him I think the Giants will. The Giants need a RB much more that they need a QB.
I think both the Browns and the Giants are taking quarterbacks.
If one of them takes Barkley then we are going to sell the 3rd overall pick for 10 mules and 15 virgins.
Either way, we win.
-
1 minute ago, esmort said:
Horrible comparison ... your list doesn't accurately represent where the starting RBs get drafted like the OPs list ... you showed a one year snapshot ... 1 draft does not provide enough data to prove anything.
I randomly picked a year.
How about 2013... Let's look.
Yep. Every one of these running backs made it big in the NFL too.
http://footballdungeon.com/draft-results/2013-nfl-draft-results/
37 2 Bengals Giovani Bernard RB North Carolina 46 48 2 Steelers Le'Veon Bell RB Michigan State 33 58 2 Broncos Montee Ball RB Wisconsin 85 61 2 Packers Eddie Lacy RB Alabama 27 62 2 Seahawks Christine Michael RB Texas A&M 89 96 3 Chiefs Knile Davis RB Arkansas 123 125 4 Packers Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA 164 130 4 Ravens Kyle Juszczyk RB Harvard 91 131 4 49ers Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina 228 140 5 Cardinals Stepfan Taylor RB Stanford 174 151 5 Cowboys Joseph Randle RB Oklahoma State 133 154 5 Redskins Chris Thompson RB Florida State 190 160 5 Rams Zac Stacy RB Vanderbilt 134 164 5 Dolphins Mike Gillislee RB Florida 119 181 6 Raiders Latavius Murray RB UCF 110 182 6 Panthers Kenjon Barner RB Oregon 202 187 6 Cardinals Andre Ellington RB Clemson 65 189 6 Buccaneers Mike James RB Miami 214 190 6 Bengals Rex Burkhead RB Nebraska 205 194 6 Seahawks Spencer Ware RB LSU 112 199 6 Lions Theo Riddick RB Notre Dame 129 215 7 Jets Tommy Bohanon RB Wake Forest 218 228 7 Redskins Jawan Jamison RB Rutgers 258 230 7 Colts Kerwynn Williams RB Utah State 177 253 7 Giants Michael Cox RB Massachusetts 295 We can do this all day.
-
1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:
So if Ballard don't take him he is a child? Very mature of you to say that.
I did not say that.
IF we keep the pick (and we are not offered a ransom to move back) then the choice is so easy, a child could make it.
-
8 minutes ago, KING. said:
I mean, he's got the tools. He still needs to go out there and prove it, but I would take Barkley with the third pick way before overspending on an RB in free agency.
I agree. He more than tools. He reminds me of Edgerrin James. Everything about him.
A generational running back to go along with our generational quarterback.
It's not hard to think about. A child could make the Colts pick this April.
-
1 minute ago, KING. said:
People don't want the Colts using their 3rd overall pick on Saquon Barkley, but they are willing to throw $14 million a year in for Bell. The day the Colts pay a running back that much money is the day I stop watching this team.
Take Saquon and you get the younger and better back for one third the price.
Stop making so much sense!!!!
You're going to give outsiders the wrong idea of this place.
-
Saquon Barkley is more talented than any RB on that list.
Correct!
-
23 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:
This is pretty much gonna be the debate all till April. Whether or not we should take Barkley at 3, and specifically if an RBs value is worth it in the first.
For those that are in the take Barkley camp, consider this. This is a comment I found on Stampede Blue by user FatDT. Just cutting and pasting a portion (everything in bold is his comment).
Top 20 in rushing yardage:
Kareem Hunt – Round 3
Todd Gurley – Round 1
Le’Veon Bell – Round 2
Lesean McCoy – Round 2
Mark Ingram – Round 1
Jordan Howard – Round 5
Melvin Gordon – Round 1
Leonard Fournette – Round 1
CJ Anderson – Undrafted
Ezekiel Elliot – Round 1
Alex Collins – Round 5
Frank Gore – Round 3
Carlos Hyde – Round 2
Dion Lewis – Round 5
Marshawn Lynch – Round 1
Lamar Miller – Round 4
Devonta Freeman – Round 4
Isaiah Crowell – Undrafted
Latavius Murray – Round 6
Bilal Powell – Round 4Top 20 in sacks:
Chandler Jones – Round 1
Calais Campbell – Round 2
Demarcus Lawrence – Round 2
Everson Griffin – Round 4
Cam Jordan – Round 1
Ryan Kerrigan – Round 1
Joey Bosa – Round 1
Ezekiel Ansah – Round 1
Cam Heyward – Round 1
Yannick Ngakoue – Round 3
Mario Addison – Undrafted
Aaron Donald – Round 1
Julius Peppers – Round 1
Terrell Suggs – Round 1
Melvin Ingram – Round 1
Khalil Mack – Round 1
Cam Wake – Undrafted
Von Miller – Round 1
Adrian Clayborn – Round 1
Jadaveon Clowney – Round 1RBs – 6 in the 1st round, 5 in rounds 2-3, 9 in rounds 4-7 and UDFA
Pass Rushers – 14 in the 1st round, 3 in rounds 2-3, 3 in rounds 4-7 and UDFABarkley is a once in a generation, sure. But it's so much easier to find a late round RB than it is a pass rusher. And most of those pass rushers were taken top 10, a spot where the colts likely won't pick again for the next few years.
I like Saquon, but if the colts think Bradley Chubb is a stud, they can't pass on him for a position that simply isn't used as much in the NFL anymore.
If any y'all's trying to read the full thread, here.
Doesn't matter where we pick a running back, eh?
Yeah, because every one of these running backs made it big in the NFL:
http://footballdungeon.com/draft-results/2016-nfl-draft-results/
4 1 Cowboys Ezekiel Elliott RB Ohio State 2 45 2 Titans Derrick Henry RB Alabama 48 73 3 Dolphins Kenyan Drake RB Alabama 86 90 3 Seahawks C.J. Prosise RB Notre Dame 70 119 4 Texans Tyler Ervin RB San Jose State 182 134 4 Ravens Kenneth Dixon RB Louisiana Tech 71 136 4 Broncos Devontae Booker RB Utah 89 143 5 Raiders DeAndre Washington RB Texas Tech 107 149 5 Giants Paul Perkins RB UCLA 66 150 5 Bears Jordan Howard RB Indiana 44 153 5 Eagles Wendell Smallwood RB West Virginia 111 156 5 Bills Jonathan Williams RB Arkansas 170 171 5 Seahawks Alex Collins RB Arkansas 109 182 6 Ravens Keenan Reynolds RB Navy 283 211 6 49ers Kelvin Taylor RB Florida 225 216 6 Cowboys Darius Jackson RB Eastern Michigan 272 236 7 Lions Dwayne Washington RB Washington 184 237 7 Saints Daniel Lasco RB California 249 242 7 Redskins Keith Marshall RB Georgia 269 247 7 Seahawks Zac Brooks RB Clemson 300
For those that think we should go RB at 3....
in NFL Draft, Scouting, and Free Agent Talk
Posted
Passing on Barkley and also not trading back is NOT realistic.
For some reason you think it is though.