[Polian- Colts Can Afford Both Manning & Rookie Qb As First Round Draft Pick]

1) How does anyone know the health of PM?

With Polian saying this, I guess the "We can't afford Luck argument is out the window." .

How do any of you know if Peyton will play another down? Just because he gets surgery does not mean the chances of him coming back are 100%. As we have seen with Peyton, he might has to go back and get ANOTHER surgery. And who knows IF he'll come back playing like vintage Peyton. Many people here are making the assumption that Peyton will come back like normal. I'm not saying he won't or will, I'm just pointing out the fact that WE don't know until that day comes where we have to sign him, release him, or he retires. That's just reality.

And also, this could just be another scheme by Polian. It's chance he could be playing as if we are drafting Luck just to make the teams desperate and up the ante.

And I for one would like to draft Luck and also wouldn't mind if we traded the pick, so I'm on both sides of the argument. But please do not make an argument assuming something (Luck will dominate right out the gate, Peyton will come back 100%, etc.) when we as fans do not know this. And then to make it seem as your argument is right and everyone is stupid is wrong. *Rant Off*

[Gee, Houston Won With A Third String Qb, Why Can't We?]

I cant believe people are actually giving reason why the Texans won today. That wasnt the point of this thread. The post was trying to say that one team can have major difficulties during the year, and sill find a way to win. Yes, It probably was with there defense. SO WHAT! I guess our defense is should be playing JV ball at an Ivy league school then. REALLY. People actually want to give this dude reason why they won? C'mon Man.

Ummmm, yeah. Have you seen that thing we call a defense out there?

But yes, the Texans are a better team. Better running game, defense, and ST. We are better than them when it comes to certain positions but as far as a complete team, Colts > Texans. Even with the player to player match up, only match ups we win are QB, C, FS, and LE (Mathis), any other position is in favor of the Texans. As we all can see, Peyton is the only reason why we have had more success than the Texans, whether it is division titles or head to head.

[Addai Is Gone]

If he keeps this production up against better defenses, I will give him his credit. Otherwise, I still believe he is a bust.

[If Curtis Painter]

Can Dan be THAT bad? What can we possibly lose by going with another QB? I know one thing we can gain by sticking with Painter, and it start with a 0 and ends with a 16.

[Barkley Over Luck?]

Well, in all fairness, look at the 49ers who are running Harbaugh offensive. Alex Smith is looking like Joe Montana. So it does raise the question, is Luck really this elite talent or is he in an offense and system that elevates his play?

Alex Smith is a game manager in Harbaugh's offense nothing more.

[Some Of You Need To Come To Grips With The Fact That Manning Won't Play Forever]

Because todays #1 or #2 picks, expecially QBs don't sit a couple of years, they start right away. Don't say A.Rodgers, he was the 24th overall pick, big difference.

When it comes to this argument, it's all about preference because both avenues are smart. You either are drafting the leader of your team for the next decade or building a team instead of building it for one player.

By drafting our heir (Barkley, Luck, etc.), he can sit (if he is willing to) and build a team around Peyton until he retires. By time Peyton retires, our heir will have a good team in place and all he needs to do is catch up to game speed and take the reigns. Downfall of this avenue is that it might become expensive and it could backfire if the player we draft takes a while to adjust.

With the trading the pick avenue, we will acquire more picks and be able to draft for the future, which is also good. Now, if we trade the picks, depending on who we trade to, it's a possibility we might miss on both Barkley and Luck. It's a possibilty Miami won't mind taking Barkley or a top 5 team doesn't want to move.

Both decisions are good but both have their downfalls. But either way, we have to think about the future past PM.

[Some Of You Need To Come To Grips With The Fact That Manning Won't Play Forever]

Good post! People talk as if it is CERTAIN that PM will be back next year. It is not 100% that he will be back. We need to protect the product that we are putting out on this field. And building our team as if Peyton will be back will end in an ultimate fail if he isn't back.

[New Coaching Staff (Merge)]

I don't want to take Barkley or Luck for the same reason. I think Peyton will be healthy and back better than ever next year, so I think that it is a waste of a pick when we could get a playmake at CB, DT, and other positions instead.

That's the problem. We have been ignoring the backup QB (and heir to PM) situation too long. When are we going to address this problem? How do we know what Peyton health is like? We shouldn't make decisions because we "think" PM is going to be healthy. This team is an investment, it would not be smart to put all of eggs in one basket when people aren't sure if he is coming back or not. At this point, we play the safe card; draft a heir to PM and develop. If we don't have anyone to cover PM in the future we might as well get used to drafting from the top 5 for a while.

[Is Next Week Our Best Chance To Win?]

If we cannot get a win coming off a bye week going against a rookie QB and lackluster defense then that tells you everything you need to know about this coaching staff.

Now with how terrible our pass defense has been this year Steve Smith could rip this defense apart. They shredded the Lions defense pretty well and are defense is no where near the Lions defense.

This is probably our best chance to win, but I doubt it will happen.

I found out everything I needed years ago buddy lol. Even with Browns game, I knew this team was doomed.

[Is Next Week Our Best Chance To Win?]

No, the next game with Jacksonville will be. Cam Newton/Steve Smith/Deangelo Williams are gonna torch us!

[Manning Gone?]

No one knows if he will be back next year or not. So let's just sit back and do what us fans do, speculate.

[Job Review For Mr. Polian..]

I was simply acknowledging Doog's point about the offense and the difficulty in finding anyone else to run it effectively as currently configured.

I agree that the defense and special teams relying so heavily on Peyton is a problem. Unfortunately that is what can happen when you put too many eggs in one basket. There are only so many eggs to go around with the salary cap and corners were cut (literally). Still the eggs could have been distributed better but the extent of this glaring unbalance didn't become evident until our worse case scenario befell us. Polian owed a fiduciary duty to the franchise to plan for this contingency and it can be argued that he was negligent for not giving sufficient attention to the other two phases of the game.

O ok, I'm sorry about that. lol. But yeah, I had a problem with Bill Polian's way of building team also but could say nothing because he had results to back it up. It was/is a risk and right now we are feeling the bad side of it. I don't know how long this will last, but I know this will last as long as Peyton will last. I do not know how people can blindly praise for his success here in Indy, keyword: blindly. He created a winning tradition here but this season is definitely a fail for him and the organization. In the real world, if you were to put all of your eggs in one basket and fail....the business goes bankrupt or you get fired, no matter your past achievements. This organization OBVIOUSLY disregarded the defense and ST. I've been wishing for years that this organization changes its ways and sign some quality FA, draft bigger players, put a team around Manning, but I think it is almost too late. People do not realize how close we are to another decade of losing or winning, and it all depends on Manning.

[Job Review For Mr. Polian..]

So its Peyton's fault because he is so good and unique that he carries the Colts by his lonesome. If that really was the case, why didn't he carry or miracle the team to victories in the playoffs during all our failures. Peyton is a HOFer but he is not a football God. Clearly, he stands above the stiffs, scrubs and busts that populate the Colts roster but he is not the Sole difference between a 10-6 or 11-5 records of regular seasons past and the 0-2011 nightmare we are living this year. We've truly earned this year's record with exceptionally shortsighted front office management, inept drafting (I don't want to hear about this years draft class greatness; they haven't proved anything yet, except they could get injuried), exceptionally bad coaching, less than NFL caliber players across the roster, mind numbingly horrble special teams and the league's worst offense and defense.

This is my whole argument. This is why Peyton only has one ring. Peyton has been mishandled.

Then how do you explain 14-2 and 10-6 over the past two seasons?

One Word: Peyton. Now tell me this, how do you explain 0-10 this season?

+1 Our offensive system is custom built to revolve around 18. Peyton is the only one who can fly this "UFO of an offense" with his cerebral telepathy and audibling gyrations. No one in the game has or can QB the way Peyton does. The man is unique. So we were pretty much doomed when he went down regardless of who we stuck in there. This will probably continue to be the case for the duration of the Manning era. When Peyton is gone, scrap this system, install a more conventional offense, and we should be able to find more than one guy who can steer the ship in a pinch.

No one has a problem with the offense being built around Peyton. Our problem is that the DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS is built around Peyton also.

[We Draft Luck, Now What?]

If Luck were to be traded let’s say for argument sake to Miami, giving the Colts their first second and fourth this year, first and fourth next year, and first the following year, and say CB Vonte Davis is part of the package. With all these draft picks, and the number one corner to put on the roster already filling that big whole, and perhaps a new coaching regime (Mike Zimmer), how would the Colts not be Super Bowl contenders? All the draft choices this year and three more picks over the following two years! This team would be rebuilt and contending starting with the 2012-2013 season! Look at what the bounty would be with my regime change suggested:

Coach: Mike Zimmer

Player from trade: Vonte Davis CB (Starting #1 CB day 1!)

Draft picks this year: 1^st round top three pick, two 2^nd round top three picks, a 3^rd round number one, two 4^th round top three picks, and the first pick in the 5^th, 6^th, and 7^th.. not including compensatory picks from Session and Charlie Johnson leaving! That is around 11 draft picks this upcoming draft! And we said around 10 pieces were needed to increase talent on all levels! That doesn’t include the first and fourth round picks next year and the additional first round pick the year following! One of those first rounders could be used to get Peyton’s heir in the future! Presuming he is healthy of course! With Vonte Davis, the Colts can draft a CB way later in the draft just as a nickel corner, or choose to not even address the corner position, having Vonte and Powers as the 1 2 punch! Meaning one hole is filled without losing a draft pick. The bounty for Luck could catapult the Colts almost overnight!

This is a good plan, I just can't take in the fact that a team is willing to give us THAT many picks for Luck. If we were to get those picks and play the FA right, you're right we would be SB contenders. I have to see this to believe this though. If a team was to give us 6 picks for Luck, I would take it without hesitation. But like I said, I just can't believe that will happen. PLUS Vonte Davis?

[We Draft Luck, Now What?]

The team has been bad for a long time, I said that prior to this season that Peyton covered up so many deficiencies. If Manning is healthy and ready to roll week one, how can drafting Luck be more advantageous to the Colts, then trading the pick and working to fix the deficiencies? I agree with you it's going to take time to rebuild this team, but the bounty for Luck will drastically increase this process, is what I am suggesting. The Colts need a lot of help, I agree with you. A true impactful Nose Tackle, Defensive Ends who can play the run and rush the passer, another impactful Linebacker whether he plays Outside or Middle, a number one caliber Corner, and an impact hard hitting Strong Safety. That’s 5-7 pieces on defense. The offense in my opinion needs and elite RB, a play making Receiver, and a few pieces on the line. That’s another 5 pieces on offense. With Seven total draft picks, and not a lot of impact coming from late round picks normally, it would look like two to three years of drafting! Luck would bring three first round picks to the Colts, this year, next year, and the year after that! All presumably top 10 picks! The Colts would also get some second and third rounders mixed in there from whichever team gives us the greatest value and possibly some players to come in and fill those voids! Now we are looking at one to two drafts and if a smarter restructure of the salary cap and bringing in some quality free agents, one season! It can be done, especially with the right coach! Mike Zimmer has done great things with Cincy’s D, he would work wonders in Indy in my opinion. So it really depends on Peyton’s health and what new regime comes in. But if Peyton is healthy, and they trade the Luck pick for the large bounty, and get a defensive minded head coach like Zimmer who runs a 4-3 just makes some minor tweaks, and let Peyton handle the offense as he always does, I don’t see why the Colts couldn’t be contenders next year and until Peyton retires! All those pieces from the Luck trade will really help over Manning’s final run to build the foundation for the team going forward a lot faster than just drafting Luck and letting him hold a clipboard over the next four years!

I'm on the fence when it comes to Luck (even though I'm leaning more towards Luck), however, I've said in the past if Luck bounty is that much, I would be open to trading the pick. For me, it depends on the bounty for Luck. If it's more than 1 first round pick and a couple others, then OF course I'm all for it. But if it's just 1 1st round pick and other picks, I'm for keeping him. I agree with you on that. But as far as this tea becoming SB contenders next year, I can't.

[Job Review For Mr. Polian..]

See this is just so down right incorrect it's not funny. this idea that he drafted 1 good player and didn't put other high quality players around him is flat out laughable. the problem here is that Polian was poor in picking a backup QB and that is basically it because with just a good QB as the backup this team is near .500.

One good QB is not gonna turn this team around. Sorry to sound like a downer, but we do have the worst defense out there right now, and probably the worst ST out there right now, and one of the worst offenses out there right now. I don't think one good QB can play defense, ST, or even run the offense like Peyton Manning does. So no, Polian wasn't just poor with finding a capable backup, he was poor with putting an actual team around Peyton. I never said he drafted one good player, I said he failed to actually put a team around a very good player!

[We Draft Luck, Now What?]

No you don't get it, cause I clearly know my viewpoint and get it! My opinion is that it would be much wiser to trade the Luck selection, because it would bring a far greater bounty to the Colts than Manning be traded. If Manning is 100% healthy (Thanks Xfiles) then drafting an understudy is something to consider, but there is talent outside of Luck. Luck would bring a multitude of players and draft picks, that could fill the voids and replace the aging players with youthful hungry talent! Luck would bring a first round pick this year, next year, and even the following year! Not to mention second, third, and so on with other draft picks! Look what the Browns got from the Falcons for the sixth overall pick for Julio Jones! Luck is the most hyped and valued QB since Manning, from a draft perspective. He would bring imense value from draft picks and possible players. And your opinion is farcical on Manning will not get them back to SB contention, this is essentially the same team from the 2009 SB, which was only two short seasosns ago. You must be forgetting this is a playoff team every year under Manning, no matter how bad the talent has been around him. To say all those draft picks with some possible players would not improve this team you are being naive and surely one sided!

I was in agreement with you about the whole "Trading picks thing". I actually pointed that out in my previous post. However, I agreed with you all the way up untl the bolded part. THIS IS NOT the same team from 2009. This is not even the same atmosphere of a season as 2009. In 2009, every elite team was performing to predicted standards. This year, EVERYTHING is wide open. Only one team is really dominating, everyone else is up and down.

Now onto the team. I have to say 2009 > 2011 Colts Team. This team is worse. The line is worse, the defensive backfield is worse, ST is still horrible, the run d has slightly improved but still is not good, and the LB core is worse, and I refuse to go on. I've pointed out and said many times this team is a PLAYOFF team with Manning but not a SB CONTENDING TEAM, there's a difference. Those draft picks and signings will improve this team, however, other teams will improve also. This league is a lot stronger than in 2009. We had a few holes in our team in 2009 (run d, run blocking, ST) and were still able to go to the SB. In the future, Peyton is not guaranteed to play 100% (or even come back), and holes may or not be fixed. But as of now, we have A LOT more holes than in 2009. If you think Peyton and one good offseason will make this team a SB contender with teams improving every year, then you are mistaken. This is not a one year job <- This is my argument. It can be done, but not in one year like many say it will. I feel they will be dissappointed, just as when people thought would play this season when some of us knew he would not.

And you say two short seasons ago as if we have been winning the past two seasons, in fact. We have a losing record since the SB until now.

[We Draft Luck, Now What?]

Exactlly! Which means trading the Luck pick, because Peyton isn't going anywhere!

You don't get it. One draft is not going to fix this team. Most of realistic people on this board understand in order for Peyton to get back to the SB, it is going to take more than one year. Let me point this out, I agree that trading pick is also a good option, both decisions are good. But I do not agree with people that want to trade pick because they think it will put Peyton back into SB contention. It will not. This team needs a lot of cleaning up and fixing. Peyton will help us with that but keyword, help. He alone will nto fix this team. It is too much for one good draft and Peyton to fix this team.

[Job Review For Mr. Polian..]

I would argue that most organizations build teams that gameplan around one player's strength. Hence the term "franchise" player. Those teams just take care to also draft back ups that mimic the star players' abilities. We can't do that because no one can successfully do what Manning does. A part of that is Peyton's fault, not the FO. He chooses to do things his way, and doesnt allow anyone else to delegate the practices.

I agree, however, there is a difference between building a team FOR a player (what we have) and building a team AROUND a player. The way offense was built, I had no problem with. I had a problem with building a defense to play with leads that a player on offense got us. That basically means, our defense can not stand on its own if that player is not playing. I also have a problem with the same areas not being improved for 10 years because we were stuck on building a team FOR this one player. Yes, it was successful because Peyton turned out to be one of the GOAT, but if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. Right now, we are wounded, but if Peyton has any more trouble with his neck, we might die. Sorry to put it in such graaphic terms. lol

[We Draft Luck, Now What?]

And then have nothing behind them, and continue on the same path they are currently headed! The most expensive contracts for players and rookies in general are at the QB position, where is the extra money going to come from to keep Manning, pay Luck to sit for multiple years, and then resign their own and try to bring in some other free agents???

It took us 10 years to get in this mess, it's not gonna take us 1 to get out of it. We basically have the hand we are dealt and can not change cards. We have to play this situation to best of our ability until Peyton is gone.

[Job Review For Mr. Polian..]

And that lack of contingency planning worked quite well for him this year, didn't it? An executive is responsible for having plans in place for things that might happen ....

Take me as an example - I'm consulting outside of the US now. Today I had a conversation with my client in which I advised them that we need to have a plan in place for something that probably won't happen, but if it did would cause huge issues for them.

I have a responsibility to my client to develop plans for potential problems .....

..... Polian had the the same responsibility to the Colts & Irsay. It doesn't appear that he had any plan at all (you and I are essentially saying the same thing).

That's my main reason why I want him gone. Polian depended on one player almost his entire time here to bring him success. In my eyes, that shows laziness. I don't care what he has done in the past for this team. If one player truly turns this team from 16-0 to 0-16, then something is wrong. I wouldn't mind having a losing season because of who we lost (Peyton Manning), but to not win a game at all is down right unacceptable.

[We Draft Luck, Now What?]

Draft Luck, use the other 7 picks to draft players and build the team. Use the FA to fill holes.

[Polian: Manning Fine With Colts Drafting Qb In First Round.]

Ive seen the product on the field. As good a QB as PM is, he has not been able to win many super bowls, playoff games and he has been blamed for it. Patriots lose TB and they didnt fall down the tube, they were able to be really respectfull. Thats because they had a balanced team where the QB is not the essential piece. Im not saying that to lose the head of your team wont hurt, it does and you are not going to be as good but you dont start losing every game that you play if you have a good team. Apparently we dont and BP has told us that we do. I dont think so and i agree with you that no matter who is the QB including Manning in the near future that we will probably not be there because of a weak team. But its has always been a weak team because of weak defenses, but we've had PM to take care of us fans. BP certainly has not. Last note, if PM comes back healthy next yr, then I feel sorry for Luck because he will not get to play, no matter how good he is in college, he will be just like sorgi and painter. I wonder how many fans think that he can be the starter if PM is healthy. LOL No wonder that PM is not worried who that pick. Period.

I agree, all Peyton needed was a near complete team and he could get us deep into the playoffs. This team and next year's team will not be able to get us far with Peyton. Maybe 2013 or 2014, but then we will be asking ourselves how much does Peyton has left in him.

[Look At The Starters From 2009 Vs 2011]

Peyton will make us a playoff team no doubt, but this league has gotten better while you have pointed out, we have stood still. That has always been our problem.

[Polian: Manning Fine With Colts Drafting Qb In First Round.]

The question really comes down to money, does it not? Will the Colts pay Manning his high salary and draft a first pick who will demand a high salary and bonus going in?

With the new rookie salary wage, not really. And by time that contract is up, Peyton might be retiring. We payed someone to sit many times before, so what's the big deal now?