Prepare for NO NFL Football this year. in NFL General Posted March 25 16 hours ago, SteelCityColt said: This wasn't what we were talking about.. you've diverted into a number of different topics. But quickly: The Liverpool Care Pathway, rightly, hasn't been clinical guidance for a number of years. The Alfie Evans case is again a different aspect and the way you outline it suggests the clinicians willingly denied care for no good reason. It's undeniable that the NHS is a under pressure organisation, but this isn't unique to to it. Take the often cited example of 4 hour waits. For one the 4 hour thing itself doesn't really have much clinical evidence, it's more a of performance metric. When you compare the average waits in emergency departments across the world we still see a greater ratio of patients quicker. The issue is that people utilise ED as a first stop rather than last resort. To get into the underlying reasons why would take forever, but this is why a lot of NHS transformation is about increasing access in primary/community settings. You anecdotal example isn't all too uncommon depending on the break. But that's again not exactly unique to the NHS. Without knowing the full medical details it's impossible to say if it was poor practice. As a converse anecdote, I managed to break my ankle and not realise for 4 days... Point being, if someone dies when it was avoidable it would normally be a Serious Incident with a full investigation of why. These are thankfully rare. However , I think we will see a huge spike of deaths that would have been "avoidable" as the system pressure builds. Currently it looks like end April/May for the peak of demand. I was talking about the medical system choosing to deny care based on cost/benefit analysis, rather than just taking care of the person, essentially a death panel. That has and is happening. That was my point from all of that. It did kind of grow into more information as to why this happens, and the issues with NHS. for my anecdotal, they went right after he hurt his arm. They refused to do an xray as they didn't think it warranted one. A week later the kid was still hurting and bruising, and finally they took one in the ED and showed that there was a break, exactly like the parents were saying.