Nickster
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Posts posted by Nickster
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2 minutes ago, Superman said:
I think my point is that we've been paying our best players, but our best players haven't been at positions for which you think we should be paying. If you replace Shaq, Q and Smith with a WR, LT, DE, you'd probably characterize those negotiations differently.
You're right that we haven't had much of this. But I think that's mostly a byproduct of having not drafted well for a long time. Once you start stacking up good drafts, you'll have some unhappy players because you can't pay everyone.
Just thought of another example, by the way. Marlon Mack asked for a trade in 2021 because he was stuck on the bench behind JT. Kind of a unique situation since he was coming off the injury, but I imagine he was hoping to be paid before the 2020 season. Instead, we drafted his replacement.
I don't think the Mack thing seemed contentious the way I remember. The Colts were not going to pay that running back. (I loved Mack BTW. Loved the fluidity of his game.)
Maybe writing on the wall for how they viewed the running back position? ie. Draft, use up, don't resign, draft another one.
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13 minutes ago, HOZER said:
Both glorious examples. I’ve got the Doc Holiday going at the moment, with a little wax I can get the Rollie Fingers to work!
If my wife would have anything to do with me, I'd grow a Rollie Fingers. I've really always wanted to do that.
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Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:
Lmao
Astute observation by Shane. LOL.
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22 minutes ago, csmopar said:
Well Darius Leonard was an all pro LBer. Since changing his name to Shaq, he’s played like 4 games and played like crap. Sooooo there’s that
Hey man, IDK if you are a good judge of weight (I'm pretty good at it coaching wrestling for a couple decades). Does Shaq look bigger than the 218 he was playing at?
I don't think that would fly very long as an MLB in Bradley's system, absorbing more direct contact from nasty ADZ guards and full speed RBs.
It would be pretty surprising if they didn't put some weight on him.
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9 minutes ago, HOZER said:
I mustache you a question…..what if Im already rockin a mustache?
Full on Goose Gossage or Rollie Fingers.
If you are young, check those lovely Staches out on the net.
Beautiful Man Bling .
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9 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:
You pay great players and Taylor is a great player if the best on the team at least one of them. Depending how Richardson pans out.
I disagree you pay great players on its face.
You don't pay great players for past performance. You pay them according to what they likely will produce in the future and throughout their deals.
Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver ever arguably. He's a great player. Would you pay him if he came back at a premium price? Of course not, he's 61.
You don't pay great players above their positional value no matter how good they are at non premium positions.
So I know that soundbite "You pay Great Players" sounds right, but it's not necessarily. I thought, still think, and will think that the Shaq and Nelson contracts were bad for the Colts. They were Great Players, but currently for the last 2 seasons neither has played like a great player.
I predicted Shaq would struggle to stay on the field at his size. I also thought and still think he wasn't a good enough pass defender to pay like that. Same with Nelson. Love the dude. He's a guard. Guards are not nearly as important in the passing game. They're just not. It's much easier to keep pass rushers off the QB through the A and B gaps than it is C and beyond. It just is.
We were set up like a team from the 1980s and predictably by some, me included, it's coming back to bite us in the Kuester.
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37 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:
I am not either regarding that narrative and he also has made some key blocks in his career. I remember 1 play he saved Wentz from getting creamed as JT took out a LB. If I find the clip, I will have to post that. JT is very capable of catching screen passes and breaking one big with his speed. Shane probably already pictures this.
Bestie. JT has never been a good consistent pass blocker and no one outside of Colts.com has ever said anything different about that.
He likely will never be a very good pass protector either because his skill set does not include explosive lateral quickness which is what most great pass blockers possess. JTs talent is straight at you one cut downhill.
Hines was a great pass blocker for instance with the great lateral quickness.
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5 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:
It just is in general.
Is that you God? Thus Spake Zarathustra.
JK. I don't think it's ridiculous. I think it's reality, and I have predicted as much on this site that the league has been devaluing RBs for a few years and that it was going to continue to go that direction.
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Just now, w87r said:
According to Irsay, there were no negotiations going on, nothing to resolve.
Well if someone asks to renegotiate a contract and the owner refuses to negotiate. then I guess there were no negotiations from a technical standpoint. When Reagan left Gorby at the table in Iceland, there were no "official negotiations" going on with missles and SDI, but there were frantic negotiation like things going on .
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9 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:
A RB is a receiver, a blocker and of course runs the ball. A WR is a blocker and catches the ball if they get a ball. The RB does all three and at least one on every offensive play. So, to say RB is less valuable than as receiver to me is ridiculous especially one that is as good as Taylor is. So, I don't blame Taylor for his frustration in all this. I love Taylor and he would probably lead the league in rushing again. They should sign him and make him happy and be done with it. I mean could you imagine how good the running game could be with Richardson and Taylor. I mean Ballard made it seem like it was Taylor's fault for our faliures last season and it absolutly wasn't the o-line played terrible last season and Taylor was injured. I mean there were alot issues in many areas last season that caused our very bad play last season sign him and be done with this already.
Well it might be ridiculous to you but it's not TO EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL.
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10 minutes ago, pkbrux said:
You can't even mention Taylor and CMC as receivers in the same breath. CMC could legitimately play slot receiver in the NFL, Taylor can catch screen passes.
I didn't bring up his lack of elite receiving or pass blocking to knock Taylor, just as a point to say that if I were going to pay a RB big money (and I wouldn't under any circumstances), he better be an elite receiver and pass blocker like pre-ACL tear Edge.
Someone was mentioning Faulk. Faulk could have been a slot or Y in the league IMO. CMC is like that.
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48 minutes ago, stitches said:
Kevin Bowen brought up something. When Darius Leonard was up for extension(same agent), he missed the first 10 days of training camp, then they extended him then he was back practicing 2 days later. This is most likely this agent's modus operandi.
Yep. That would be a reasonable hypothesis.
10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:His first 2 seasons he looked pretty good. Similar ypc as CMC. Just far fewer opportunities
So you think JT would be as good as a receiver as CMC?
you and the mouse in your pocket would be the 2 then.
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1 hour ago, Jackie Daytona said:
Yet again......
Irsay is a member of the ownership finance committee. It is literally his "job" to occasionally weigh in on finance and CBA matters. The entire RB fiasco and suggesting in public that the CBA (that the finance committee is/was heavily involved in) was negotiated in bad faith.... Is exactly the type of thing Irsay should be expected to weigh in on.... Irsay needing to "learn something" is the joke here.
It seems to have triggered his reportedly all around great guy running back, upon whom so much praise from management has been heaped though doesn't it Jackie D?
Maybe JI didn't do it "on purpose" or to send "a message" but one could argue that it's a stunning lack of awareness during a negotiation. Maybe hold the Finance Committee comments until AFTER the resolution of your RB?
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47 minutes ago, w87r said:
That's what he was anyway, when the Jets signed him.
Either way, I'm tired of discussing Leveon Bell. Lol, no offense
I know man. I think he fleeced the Jets. I think he likely got more money than he would have gotten in total by holding out because I think his high mileage had probably used him up. If he'd a had a sub par year in 2019 playing on the Tag, he would not have been signed by anyone for 13 mill in 2020.
IN any event the holdouts of Leveon Bell and potentially JT are not as cut and dried as many see to think IMO Eight Seven.
I'm tired of talking about Bell too. Never did care for the guy too much.
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11 minutes ago, w87r said:
He was 26 in 2018 and 27 in 2019
It wasn't just his ability fell off. Situation changed and was being used differently. Had a young QB instead of Big Ben. Worse OL, worst weapons on the outside. Which put all focus on him offensively from a defensive perspective.
2018, and yes, that Steelers offense was loaded.
He put moderate stats in 2019 despite the personel issues above. Still had 66 rec, ypc was low, but that goes back to personel issues as well. No RB on team averaged over 4ypc.
Bell deserves the blame as well. Came back not in peak shape and was rusty. Never recovered from slow start. That Jets line wasn't very good though, no doubt.
He would have been 27 28 29 and 30 during a 4 year contract. -
1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:
FWIW, this all seemed to blow up when Jim Irsay tweeted (or X'ed???) his piece criticizing "some agents" negotiating in bad faith.
Irsay hasn't yet learned what the founder of my employer said a long time ago:
"Listen much; say little; write nothing." -- John Pierpont Morgan
In modern parlance: "Don't press send."
And saying is often the same as writing now since so much stays on tape.
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1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:
FWIW, this all seemed to blow up when Jim Irsay tweeted (or X'ed???) his piece criticizing "some agents" negotiating in bad faith.
Irsay hasn't yet learned what the founder of my employer said a long time ago:
"Listen much; say little; write nothing." -- John Pierpont Morgan
In modern parlance: "Don't press send."
this!-
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1 hour ago, DougDew said:
Some of the homerism is obvious.
We praise SS for being a QB whisperer and have great expectations for how AR will develop and be used because of the past history SS has displayed with Hurts and Herbert.
Based upon that past history to then judge RBs, SS is going to want either a pass catcher at RB (Ekelar) or more of a scat back type of RB (Sanders). JT is neither of those kinds of RBs.
Which is why Ballard has said to let the season play out and see how it works together, which is what I said about JT the day SS was drafted. JT might show that the only exceptional skill he has for the NFL is breaking occasional and unpredictable big plays from between the OTs. Lets hope he shows more this season. If he doesn't, SS probably wants a new RB.
But that would shatter some of the emotional pallets here on Colts.com.-
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8 hours ago, CR91 said:
I honestly don't get the point of the tag then if teams are gonna use it just to have leverage on players. It's a broken system
I don’t necessarily disagree with this. But there are advantages of tagging for the league as a whole, in preventing paying big money for past performance.And also certain players. For instance when LB signed his deal after the hold out he sucked. But that 27 mill guaranteed was locked up under the cap and when he proved to be ineffective, none of that 27 mill went to another more deserving, valuable players on the Jets.
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5 minutes ago, w87r said:
Because he took a year off of football. Was never the same.
Grass isn't always greener, if he stayed in Pittsburgh, I think he plays another 3-4 years minimum.
Fair enough, but a symptom of the holdout it's self.
but assuming LB was lazy, doesn’t mean JT will be.
5 minutes ago, w87r said:If he was out there playing in 2018, would of still been in peak shape, in 2019.
or beat to hell.
5 minutes ago, w87r said:He got $12.5m more guaranteed than if he would of signed his franchise tag and played. A year later.
That $12.5m would of easily been made up and more. Literally could of signed tag and another 1yr deal after, for $12.5m and been in same boat.
Could of signed multiple year deal in 2019 with another $27m guaranteed because he would of been coming off another good season, if he didn't hold out.(He would of still got a similar deal in 2019, if he played 2018)
You’re assuming he would have been great in 2019, I’m not after 412 touches.
5 minutes ago, w87r said:So his hold out at a minimum cost him $14.5m.
Or if he pkayed for the 14 mill and proved ineffective in 2019 which would have tons of precedent with RBs often being much less effective the season after high usage seasons.
I don’t think you are considering LBs age and mileage when this was going down. There have been few great backs around 30 and above ever in the history of the league.
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10 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:
Mine said the same but then acquiesced. Probably won’t be too many weeks if any.
more weeks than I’m willing to sacrifice lol. Already lose 12 weeks a year.-
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29 minutes ago, w87r said:
RBs are considering all kinds of options.
I will say that Bell was going to get paid regardless.
He wasn’t going to have guaranteed money beyond the one year though.
He was 29, ancient by RB standards.
29 minutes ago, w87r said:He also lost $14.544m for sitting out the 2018.
So essentially that $27m covered his sit out season(2018) and 2019 at $13.5m a season.
But cost him his career, I don't think any RB is going to look at this example and be like, that's what I'm going to do right there.
His ineffective play led to his “ruined caree”. He had another 14 mill on that 2019 deal and just wasn’t good enough to earn it. Then after he was cut he had 2 or 3 opportunities to get paid with other teams and just wasn’t good enough.How did the hold out ruin his career?
Now the way I remember it, LB probably hit the tweed a little too much. He was rumored to have gotten out of shape, eating Funyuns and drinking Faygo all night playing XBox all night long and sleeping all day in his Momma’s basement. Maybe this led to his ineffectiveness? Maybe he was pretty washed after 412 touches in 2018?
Maybe LBs drop was a function these circumstances.
Perhaps LB should regret his work ethic during the hold out year rather than the hold out itself. If he had been an effective player in 2020 or 2021 he would have earned more. He could have been contributor on multiple SB champions with KC and TB .
But he wasn’t any good anymore. JT or another back could arguably become stronger with taking a year off, treating his body with the utmost care according to the latest and greatest exercise and nutrition science and come back after a hold out rested up and better conditioned ready to have an extended career and earning potential window with the year off.
The hold out was not necessarily in and of itself the reason LBs career crapped out.
I suspect this was his issue.
Perhaps he should have hired a more effective cannabist to get him off the Indica and on a smooth Sativa strain?
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15 minutes ago, w87r said:
Even though he regrets it Eight Seven, I’d bet dollars to donuts that there have been backs since then and maybe JT or some other guys now who look at the scrill he got and consider his method.I don’t think it will work this time with the market value of RBs, but I bet some of them consider how his deal transpired.
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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:
Again, I was responding to a poster who floated the possibility that Taylor might sit out rather than accept a Tag or Two. I was explaining that good, smart, character kids typically don’t make bad career choices.
Saquan Barkley just did a 180 and negotiated a one year deal. SB is a good smart high character kid. No one ever thought of Leveon Bell in those terms. And Bell ruined his career with a long holdout. I don’t see JT making such a mistake. Good, smart, character kids make more pragmatic choices like Barkley just did.
Hope that clarifies.
Leveon Bell made out like a bandit NCF. He fleeced NYJ for 27 mill guaranteed.
Who’s the smart one? I am baffled by the Bell argument. He got paid way above his value.
Leveon Bell =
Training camp Day 2 7/28
in Colts Football
Posted
Ok yeah. I thought that was a funny thing to quote.