EastStreet
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Posts posted by EastStreet
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I'd have taken Sweat or Tillery. We're going to face 7 of the top 11 passing teams this year. JT and Sweat both could have made clear impacts. Not sure I can say the same about Banogu. Hope I'm wrong.
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I haven't put a finger on Eberflus's D yet, but I'm optimistic. Some of the picks no doubt were head scratchers to me, but I'll let it play out. Feels like we're getting a bit exotic. I'm good with that but also want to be great at the less exotic stuff.
Year 2 is going to be exciting on both sides of the ball watching our schemes morph and mature as we get the right personnel.
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It's way too early to assume anything on guys like Parris and Deon, but it's hard not get excited. We have the ingredients to be the best O Indy has ever had. Andrew won't have to work near as hard as he did last year. It won't be finding the least covered anymore, it could be choosing among several wide open guys.
Now with Ware, we have a great every down back, a good power back, and young/good APB. With our OL TEs, and QB, no reason think we can't keep up with anyone in the league. KC who?
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6 minutes ago, MFT5 said:
Feel like Funchess will be en the slot a lot like Marques Colston
I hope so. He could kill it there. I like him a lot more there than at X.
If Cain comes back ready, I'm pretty sure it will happen.
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3 hours ago, Legend said:
Maurice Fountain and Nate Hairston.
Longshot for Fountain to make the 6, but I could easily see him on the practice squad again and given another year of development. I also wouldn't be surprised to see him bump Pascal if all the off season training went well.
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3 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:
I've seen this come up a number of times in the forum. There have been some hangups about WR1 vs WR2 vs WR3. And I've noticed Funchess and Campbell both being called Slot WRs. It's also come up whether Campbell will be used more for short routes, or as a deep threat as well.
I'd like to discuss an example play using the following formation:
WR WR WR LT LG C RG RT TE
(TY) (PC) (DF)
How do we label the WRs in this formation? There aren't two "wideouts" and one "slot" because they're all on the same side. Aren't Campbell and Funchess both "slot receivers" in this formation? If we assume TY is WR1, is there any distinction between PC and DF as WR2 or WR3? Is the distinction between WR1/2/3 just stat-based? If Campbell has more receptions and yards, but Funchess has more TDs, who is WR2 behind TY? And if a WR is equally successful from the slot or lined up out wide, and also at short routes and deep routes, how are they labeled?
Labeling WRs or ranking them in a depth chart seems very convoluted to me because it can be based on who has better stats, where they line up, and/or what routes they're most successful at.
WR1-3 is just really ranking your guys on production. WR1 if your alpha. Anyone (X, Z, slot) could be a WR1. I've learned not to talk WR# on this board lol. TY as it stands is WR1, and he's a Z. For Funchess's early career, he was WR1 at X. In short, best to talk X, Z, and slot so folks don't get confused.
In the trip set above, couple issues. Typically your widest WR is on the line, unless your in bunch formation where the second widest is on the line. TY is the guy who is typically off the line. If you're in bunch, that would put Parris on the line (he didn't run wide a lot on the line either). The more realistic with that personnel in standard trips or trips bunch is DF on the line (he's typically on the line as X). If TY or PC can smack a CB off, it's not an issue anyway.
But to echo others, if Cain comes back strong, Parris pans out, we're going to be sick on O. We could attack so many ways it's not even funny. PC and DC seriously up our speed, and DF ups our size. Scary possibilities.
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2 hours ago, JPFolks said:
By far? Really? I mean I like our guys.. but I think you may be a little too excited... I am a fan of Ware though. I hope he still has some of the juice he had when he filled in the first go round when their all world back went down. (Can't even think of his name??) That guy went from all world to pretty much gone amazingly fast and then Ware got hurt too and next thing you know they had Hunt. I thought maybe KC would resign him, but maybe he didn't want to go back. I can't think of many better FA options than Ware. Ajayi couldn't sustain his production at all. He was either amazing or nothing or hurt.
Mack was 6th last year if you normalized for his early injury. Hines had a great first year as an APB. Wilkins is a decent back up with a good average ypc. Ware fills the power back + hole that we were missing big time late in games, and in short yardage situations. If all stay healthy, wouldn't be shocked at all to see them top 5. Good get.
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3 hours ago, Two_pound said:
In my opinion, no way Wilkins gets cut. Mack, Hines and Wilkins will all make the team.
I'm up in the air on this but tend to agree. Williams will be the odd man out.
We now have
Mack as RB1
Wilkins as back up to Mack
Ware as Power Back (he can do more than just be the power back)
Hines as APB receiving back.
That's pretty nice. Will love seeing Ware punish some worn out DLs and LBs late in games, keeping Mack fresh.
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10 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:
If Campbell returns punts Rogers will most likely be gone.
Nah.
Rogers was not only our returner, he shifted to Z to back up TY, and had the second most WR yards on the team. Unless you want to go without a back up at both Z and slot, Rogers will stick. The only way I see Rogers gone is if an UDFA or tryout z/slot type sticks (or is good enough to hold on the practice squad). At WR, you're biggest risk for cuts is as X right now.
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23 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:
Baltimore has no problem with it especially since he was on the 53 all year
Lamar was a very unique case last year coming out of Louisville as a primary rusher
I am very happy with JB as #2
Point is, if Lamar goes down, they will not be happy with RG3 as the starter. And even if healthy, it's hard for me to see Lamar succeeding in the league. He's a major dice roll as a starter, and RG3 is now a journeyman back up who already had his shot.
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37 minutes ago, TonyBungee said:
I hate this. I understand the desire to go younger. But I loved the way Inman played last year, and really wanted him to get a chance to continue with the chemistry he was building with Luck.
Beside Hilton, there are 3 WRs on the roster that might be better than Inman this year, but none that I would bet on.
Having said that, I'll admit that I'm impatient. I'm thinking about this year, and for this year, the Colts are better with Inman than without him. But Ballard's playing the long game, and he appears to be really good at it.
I love Inman too, and wish there was a way to keep him. There's just not a lot of room at X. Remove TY at Z, and Rogers and Parris at slot (both who could shift to Z), from the conversation. That's 3 and assumes we shift positions instead of having a full time back up at Z. Now remove Cain who supposedly had locked down starting X, and Funchess who we just paid 10M for.
That leave one spot (assuming we only carry 6 on the 53MR). I don't see them getting rid of Pascal for Inman. If Fountain is working hard at improving, he'd be the obvious guy to keep on the practice squad. If after getting a look at UDFA and tryout guys, perhaps they decided to keep 7, or bonce Pascal down to the practice squad and take Inman back. I just don't see either of those things happening. If Cain is gimpy, or if another X gets hurt, then maybe.
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2 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:
Those GMs and Coaxhes are happy with their respective coaches and in the Baltimore System JB would behind RGIII
Come on PT (-: , Baltimore just switched OCs two years ago. Mornhinweg is an up and down retread, and who knows how long he'll be there. He certainly didn't light the world on fire his last gig with the Jets, or his later years with Philly. His best years were with very special QBs. LJ (and RG3) are that IMO.
If Luck when down again, are you saying you'd rather have RG3 than JB. Not me.
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12 hours ago, JPFolks said:
Now THAT is how to answer a friggin' question! Awesome answer!
Now here's a follow up. Even though he PLAYED the slot on our heavily underwhelming set of options last year, is there really any reason from a skills point of view that Rogers is a good slot receiver option? (Maybe there is, but he just seems like GENERIC RECEIVER INSERT WHEREVER type of guy rather than one that displays any real penchant for being a slot.
Not saying he's a great option, but he does get more separation than any WR on the team, including TY. Separation isn't everything, especially if you have TY's skill set, but it does make a QBs job much easier.
Keep in mind Rogers is still young, and only started 6 games prior to having a fully healthy Luck. Last year was really his first time playing with a good QB. And, he took a very nice step forward catching the 2nd most WR yards.
In short, I'm up in the air on Rogers right now. He was probably the most steady/reliable option last year after TY, and can also back up TY at Z when TY is hurt. The competition just increased a bunch, so he'll need to continue taking steps forward if he wants to stay. If Cain comes back strong, and Parris is the real deal and gets tossed at the slot position, could be bad news for Chester. Lots of moving pieces though. Sure will be interesting.
QuoteAlso, which is more important, height or speed and how does that manifest itself in terms of positional usage? Is TY locked in at Z solely based on speed OR solely based on he has been the only truly top notch WR on the roster in his entire time with the Colts, and I include Reggie who was clearly in decline even year 1 with Hilton. Once he was gone, we had no one but TY. (And I still insist that not bringing him back for a final year was the most low life move of Grigson's tenure because he gave us so much AND he literally was still, at the end, better than anyone we had on the team not named TY and even if he wasn't, he was world's better than nearly any other and would have been reliable when on the field even if his role was limited. He would have EARNED the job in camp, AND he would have solidified his HOF credentials whereas now it isn't certain, certainly no where near a first ballot... but I digress...) So let's say a LEGIT #1 talent showed up tomorrow in Indy. Does that change Hilton's position? Does he become far more likely used in the slot? Of course he'd still be on the field all the time, but doesn't TY's talent determine he'd always be in any of those slots unless we had 3 better options?).
How much "height" is enough to overcome any positional limitations, especially when attached to speed?
With O schemes evolving, and all the variances and specialization, it's harder than ever to say this type of WR is better at this position, because of this height, or this speed. You also have different types of skill sets within positions (especially X and slot) that will play based on situation (short vs long, RZ or between the 20s). Here' my thought on the positions.
X -
General - The guy regardless of which type he is, needs to be able to beat the press at the line to even start to be successful. If he can't slap away a CB, he needs to be moved to slot or Z.
Speed X - Deep threat who can take the top off the D, and can turn and blaze. Used in long yardage situations and between the 20s. If you have a guy with a limited route tree but has burner speed, speed or deep X is the easiest place to insert him while he polishes the rest of his game. If you only ask him go deep, or run limited routes, he can contribute early. Height doesn't matter as much here.
Possession X - Might not be the fastest, but has decent height and vice grips for hands, runs good routes, and has good ups. Excels at 50/50 catches. Used more in short yardage and RZ situations. Funchess has been a possession X during his career. The only bag on him has been his hands.
Comment - A guy who can check both speed and possession boxes, is the best to have. Many think Cain could be that guy as he's got a great mix of speed and height. We haven't had that guy. We didn't have a speed X, that's for sure, and I wouldn't say they were dominating possession Xs either.
Slot -
General - More than anything, the guy needs to be fearless and willing to go across the middle and take a hit. A Z type WR might end up here if he's willing to take the contact.
Traditional slot - smaller, runs good routes, gets separation, and is at minimum quicker than fast. You see a lot of guys who have more twitch than top end speed here. Ideally you also want a guy with good YAC skills, which is why you see some smaller RBs convert to slot. If you can get a truly speedy guy with good twitch, they can be special. Parris might be that guy.
Big slot - "Big" are typically TE-lite or big possession X guys (which is why I can see Funchess excel here). It's more or less like having a faster flex TE on the field without really having a TE on the field lol. I could see Funchess playing here considerably more than he did in Carolina, especially if Cain comes back strong. It's more of a possession type slot.
Bully slot - "Bully" are typically running back (not undersized) type body profiles. Similar to traditional, just a bit more brute. Again, has the twitch and YAC skill set.
Comment - Chester is traditional. Not blazing fast but decent at 4.56. Since he leads the team in separation stats, we can he runs good routes and has good twitch.
Z -
General - I'd bet most teams' fastest guys go here. They have the benefit of motion and ideally can be lined up anywhere to create mismatch and havoc. They play off the line and don't have to deal with slapping off DBs as much as Xs.
Traditional - Height is probably the least important at Z. TY is 5-9 and is highly successful. He also runs in the 4.3s. He's a pinball that can challenge every inch of the field horizontally or vertically.
Comments - When Zs start to slow a bit, they often can end up extending their careers at slot if they are willing to take the hits. I'd bet TY would be willing if it meant retiring in Indy. He and Parris for instance could swap spots down the road IF Parris polishes his route tree and WHEN TY starts to lose a step.
QuoteMy bottom line is shouldn't we be lining up the 3 best combinations of speed, height, hands and route running we have, regardless of X, Y, Z concepts? It's an honest question because I don't seem to see consistency. Is Campbell an obvious slot or is Funchess? Two nearly opposite (on paper) talents? This is what I don't really get. It seems to me that any player with an advantage in their game can use that advantage in any positional placement?
In short, yes (best combos), but it's just not that simple. If you are in a short yardage or RZ situation, you want something different than when you are 1st and 10 between the 20s, or 3rd and long.
So if we assume Cain comes back strong, and Parris hits the ground running:
Cain for instance, has both size and speed, and could fit any field position situation. Big bonus when they can do that. Parris would be primary slot most times except short yardage situations where Funchess is a better option. TY like Cain, could remain regardless assuming we are in a 3WR set.
Best guest based on the assumption above in 3WR sets.
Standard downs (not short yardage) and long yardage is Cain/Parris/TY.
In short yardage Cain/Funchess/TY
Having line ups like Cain/Funchess/TY/Ebron or Cain/Parris/TY/Ebron will scare the hell out of Ds. Just having other speed and vertical threats on the field with TY will make Luck's job, and TY's job much much easier. Let's just pray that Cain comes back strong and Parris picks things up quickly.
QuoteThanks again for a great response!
You're welcome, and no problem.
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6 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:
The Brass if the teams with those “mediocre” QBs either don’t see it or feel they have it solved
Take Eli
Yes Eli is on the decline but Gettleman drafted Daniel Jones with the 6th Pick
He would be #3 at Baltimore unless Lamar and RGIII both get hurt
RG3 is done for all intents and purposes as a starter. And I can see an early flame out or injury for Lamar. Had RG3 not signed a 2 year deal a couple months ago, it would have been perfect for JB. And I disagree he'd be 3rd. I'd rate him over RG3. There's several reasons Wash and Clev game up on him as a starter.
NYG were 11th in passing last year, but Eli's age is a "thing" and they need to start looking to the future. Jones was perfect given his relationship with Cutcliff and the Mannings. Should make for a better than usual transition.
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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:
There are no openings at this point since every QB needy team either signed and/or drafted a QB
I never heard Earl Morrall or Matt Cassell complain about being the backups on Championship teams
Being a Backup worked out well for Gary Kubiak and Jason Garrett
I'm gonna say JB sees himself better than EM, MC, and the rest. Who's going to complain about a ring, but what player who really wants to start, wants to sit behind a top 10 QB.
Take the bottom 16 passing teams. There's teams 1) who have mediocre QBs still, and 2) who have athletic QBs with a potential to get hurt or get the hook. If I were him, I'd try to get to Baltimore.
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48 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:
Talent wise, Cain was projected as a 2nd-3rd round talent. I literally just read several draft profiles. To have grabbed him in the 6th because of the reasons you mentioned, I'm good with that lol. So you're essentially adding 2 starter-level WRs to the equation this offseason in Cain and Campbell, plus whatever you'd characterize Funchess as. With what's already on the roster, things could start to get crowded. Guys that may have gotten a lot of action last year may be relegated to backup roles this year, just due to the influx of talent.
Yes, he was. He bounced around though, but was never considered a 6th round pick. He started off down IIRC, then moved up after the combine.
I have a 2 buds that are Clemson grads, and they were raving about him way back when he committed as a 5 star recruit. I remember being afraid of what he might do when ND played them. I had front row and was on the field during the monsoon. He didn't play that game, but he had a very good FR season with like 500 yards.
Just goes to show you we'll never understand Ballard lol. Picks raw project with only one year of production in the 5th from a small school, then picks Cain in the 6th. Fountain is still a mystery in development, and the flagged 6th rounder is getting featured in pump up vids. Who knows if either will work out, but pretty obvious who was better prospect.
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2 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:
He has a chance to win a ring in Indy and keep himself healthy. He'll be a free agent after this year and can pick and choose where he wants to wind up. Right now, it doesn't look like any of the teams with a shaky QB situation (there really aren't all that many) are in good position to win.
Also, Luck is a year removed from missing 1.5 seasons from what many initially thought may be a career-ending injury. The chances he is likely to get injured as just as high as the chances of any other QB getting injured. Fingers crossed that Luck doesn't get hurt, but at this point in time I do not see any situation that is clear-cut better for Brissett than Indy (let alone 20). If another team has their top QB go down early in the season or in the middle of the season when they're in the playoff hunt, we still have trade value with Brissett even though he's a FA after the year. If not, we retain one of the top back-up QBs in the NFL and he can pick where he wants to go after the season.
If I'm looking to be a starter, I'll take a trade (it's only for one year) to a team with the highest % chance of me playing over a back up SB ring (we're 16-1 odds) every day all day. I'm not going to waste a year of a short career.
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1 hour ago, JPFolks said:
I am confused as to why they'd use a higher pick on Fountain if he was a development player than Cain who you see as a lock? That seems reversed at best? Plus, we have no idea what Cain will be. He flashed early in camp which historically has meant very little since we seem every year to have camp heroes that don't make the team and now has to come back from injury. I feel like Pascal might have at least as much promise as Fountain or Cain and he did at least produce a little on the field when called on. Rogers for better or worse likely has an advantage over all three of those guys but I am hoping the talent cut off falls above where Rogers has been in his career.
I have no idea about the order.... but Fountain's background scream developmental, and is exactly what folks said about him. Cain slid for two reasons which one was a flag. The risk vs draft capital equation likely improved a heck of a lot in the 6th round.
1) He didn't take a step forward after taking over the WR1 spot his last year. IMO, that was more due to going from Waston to Kelly than anything else.
2) The suspension and failed drug tests.
Cain by all reports had locked down the WR2 spot last year before getting hurt. If you put him up against the others, he had more consistent production at a larger school than Fountain, Pascal, and Rogers. He's playing a different position than Rogers, so wouldn't compare those to anyway.
Just for labeling sake, and who's competing for what position. I also added Inman even though he's not currently on the roster.
Z
TY - Primary Z (5-9, 183, 4.34), who can also play slot very well. 16.2% from slot. He's not getting displaced.
X
Pascal - (6-2, 220, 4.55) - Possession X. 28.6% from slot. Also return
Inman - (6-3, 205, 4.52) - Possession X. 29.8% from slot.
Slot
Rogers - (6-0, 185, 4.56) - 85% from slot (the other from Z). Also return.
TBD
Funchess - (6-4, 235, realistically 4.55 to 4.6) - Played possession X primarily in Carolina, but played 15% from slot. He's a TE-lite, and I expect him to play both possession X and big slot bully (more than the 15% he played in Carolina)
Cain - (6-2, 203, 4.43) Speed X with height, who could play slot and likely Z too. By all reports, he had locked down starting X before he got hurt.
Campbell - (6-0, 205, 4.31) - could project anywhere, but played slot/hb at OSU. If Cain comes back strong, I could see him tagged as slot, but could play anywhere. If Cain is slow to come back, I could see him at X if he can get through press on the line.
Fountain - (6-1, 206, 4.46) - could project anywhere but he's measurables freak.
In short, lots of moving pieces, but X has the most bodies, which is why I don't think Inman comes back if Cain is healthy.
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7 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:
Where would he go that he would start right now and not be on an entirely terrible team?
I'm not saying he can start anywhere. What I'm saying is that Indy holds a zero % chance of starting unless Luck goes down again. If I were him I'd go to either a team in the bottom half (passers) of the league, and also somewhere that the current QB is likely to get injured is thought to be short term.
There's plenty of teams with shaky and mediocre QB situations. Indy is just the opposite.
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7 hours ago, Superman said:
Whether we're going more vertical or not, I've never seen Reich's offense as a mirror of Philly's. Reich was with Pederson two years. Before that, he was with Mike McCoy (who has a lot of offensive influences), before that he was with Whisenhunt (a Coryell guy, who has a lot of similar influences as Bruce Arians), and before that, he was with Tom Moore. And of course, his playing career was mostly in the K-gun.
Reich's offense is an amalgam of a lot of different things. I think his approach is to be as multiple as possible, and that will include stretching the field vertically. His Coryell background speaks for itself there, and Campbell has a lot of traits that would fit into a Coryell offense. It's hard not to see Mike Wallace / Santonio Holmes / Antonio Brown (but faster) when watching Campbell. He looks like a Bruce Arians prototype.
Agree. When I was said mirroring Philly, I was responding to others. Earlier, in maybe this thread, I lined out Reich's career supporting why we won't end up a Philly O. Definitely agree on multiple. We now can stretch vertically and horizontally. Love that the entire field is now in play.
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1 hour ago, BleedBlu8792 said:
Why? Our O-line was garbage. Probably the worst in Urban's time at OSU and probably one of the worst at running the ball too. Ryan absolutely loved crossing patterns over the middle of the field while having a guy like McLaurin, Mack, or Victor stretch the field deep. Haskin's reads were deep and in, and normally the short read was the norm because no zone nor man coverage could limit the crossing patterns. They would hit those a handful of times and start getting the safety's to cheat up and that's where they would catch them deep. Again our OL just couldn't hold up to the to the long developing plays so they had to use the short passing game to open everything else up and Paris just feasted. I'm going to miss watching Haskins and those guys this year. It's amazing they went 12-1 last year with how many deficiencies they had on the OL and the back 7 on D.
Urbs O works, so I can't criticize from a game perspective, but we hear often come draft time how hard OSU's WRs are to grade and project. Regarding Parris, it's not so much that his route tree was limited, it was how much it was limited.
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1 hour ago, CurBeatElite said:
I think if we were going to get rid of Jacoby, it would've happened before the draft and it would have been for multiple draft picks.
Ballard has also said on record he will talk with Jacoby about trading him before he trades him, as he really likes and respects Jacoby and wants him to land in a spot where Jacoby will thrive and be comfortable.
With Miami getting Rosen, I don't see a whole lot of scenarios where Jacoby would land and be better off than he is here in Indy as Luck's back-up.
If JB wants to be a starter, there are at least 20 better places to be besides Indy. Sitting behind a guy like Luck is bad thing for more than 2 years if you're young and want a chance.
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4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:
Looking back on that game Hill didn’t kill us deep at all. It was his speed. Plus getting the D that can guard TE better should help a ton. I hope everyone stays healthy. This team has such great culture. So on IG today Ebron, Walker and Brissett had a cookout together. Ebron brought his oldest son with him. I have never seen a team as close as these guys are.
The "threat" of Hill's deep potential made us defend the entire field. Reid used that threat and ate us up in different ways. That's what having a guy like Hill can do. Now we have the same kind of toy if Parris can go deep and keep Ds honest.
Where'd you see the cookout thing. Post a link if you have time.
4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:That one little change = us getting Campbell and them losing Hill could flip everything. We may now beat them now in the Regular Season and go 12-4 and get HFA. Luck gains a key weapon and Mahomes loses a key one.
KC lost pass rush, and lost big time on O assuming Hill doesn't play this year. The script is flipped already I think. Mahomes will make other WRs look good, so they certainly won't be a slouch though. We added pass rush and a big weapon and now can get into a track meet if we need to.
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2 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:
He would have a very short leash if signed.
A short leash is better than handcuffs :-)
Had an X that liked them both though
Hines Draft Tidbit
in Colts Football
Posted
Hines and Campbell both run in the 4.3s. Hines played both slot and RB. Campbell played slot, but ran some. So yes, similar.
Nice to have both. I expect Hines to get even more targets this year. Having Campbell, TY, and Hines on the field at the same time give you 3 x 4.3 guys although TY is probably low 4.4s now. Throw in Cain who if 4.4s, and that's 4 very fast guys, 2 of which are both run and catch options.