Bad Morty
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Posts posted by Bad Morty
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Im too busy trying to make a living to read that nonsense. The ball ball took them into the bathroom and let a little air out of the balls. This was because Brady was furious over the inflated balls at the Jet game. He probably said something like "I never want to throw balls like that again and it's your job to see to that." They took air out of footballs .. it's obvious. I'm way too busy to read through all that crap.
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there is tons of circumstantial evidence. you just choose to ignore it.
No - there really isn't. There is a text message from 5 months before the AFC Championship game where a guy calls himself "the deflator" and there is video of a guy going into a bathroom with a bag of balls for 90 seconds. When you boil it right down, those are the only 2 pieces of highly circumstantial evidence that exist in this case.
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buy you think the patriots deserve "benefit of doubt" That's rich
yeah...but I have a higher standard for what it should take for a league to try to destroy the reputation of their best franchise and best player...like for example, actual evidence of wrong-doing.
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Just as most here on this forum have claimed. The Patriots and Brady are _ guilty_ within their own actions. No one is going to tell me that the use of K-balls does not have anything to do with the rest of the official game balls at a "supposed pit stop urinal" via "The Deflator"! It's amazing to me that as long as this has been going on, based upon prior action(s), the purported facts are not considered to be irrefutable by most people who can read, digest, and _understand_ logic and common sense. Incredible.
And yet we have halftime ball measurements that aren't low enough to make any definitive claim that the balls were tampered with at all...and that's taking the NFL's word for it that Coleman actually gauged those balls at the beginning of the game and remembers that they were all around 12.5...in light of all the other things that have come to light regarding the NFL's misconduct in this affair, I am back to wondering how we can just take their word for it that Coleman actually stuck a gauge in all these balls pre-game versus just feeling them. The NFL doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this rather important "take our word for it - he gauged them" point.
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Anyone can start a rumor. Whether or not it is believable depends on if it involves the Patriots.
yep. When you consider that each team supplies it's own balls for each game, it makes you wonder how much truth there could possibly be to rumors like this. How are the Ravens going to know definitively what the psi level of the Patriots balls are? They didn't play each other in the regular season and I don't think the Pats turned it over in the playoff game. So I don't think the Ravens ever had their hands on one to know. Harbaugh is the whiniest sour grapes baby going.
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I want to know why it was well known around the league that the Patriots used deflated footballs. After reading that, it just seemed like everybody knew about it but didn't want to step up and go at them about it. Till now. Huge mess, but hopefully resolved soon. This whole thing needs to end officially.
Who said it was "well known"? The picture is starting to crystalize here around this scenario:
1) Pats beat Ravens, employing legal formation that Harbaugh didn't like and wasn't prepared for
2) Harbaugh whines for 2 days about the Pats using "illegal" formations, even though the league agreed those formations were 100% legal
3) Brady succumbs to temptation, takes a shot at Harbaugh with the "learn the rulebook" comment...that's what set all of this in motion
4) Ravens reach out to Colts
5) Colts reach out to the NFL
6) NFL execs arrive at the AFC Championship game ready to "catch" the Patriots at halftime
7) Balls get measured, they are below 12.5, the league feels as though they've got all the proof they need. Stories start to leak, operation "Pats Downfall" is in full swing
8) Then science rears it's head and somebody realizes that it's normal for balls to deflate in cold temperatures...so the fact that balls measured below their starting point doesn't necessarily mean cheating occurred.
This is where the league had a chance to get out of this. Had the league wanted this to not be a thing, they could have simply corrected the Mort story, pointed out that both teams' balls deflated during the half because of the cold weather, and that would have been it. For some inexplicable reason they decided to double down on this and pay millions of dollars to investigate something that never mattered before...why?
So I've reached the point where the collapse of this case on Goodell's head will be every bit as satisfying to me as the Superbowl win was.
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Tell me, why is the national media doing an about-face on this, and more and more are defending the Patriots?
The notion that the league was being dishonest in their quest to punish Brady and the Patriots seemed far-fetched to most people in the national media...until this transcript of Brady's appeal was released and Goodell was literally caught pants down in a flagrant lie about Brady not being honest about what he was talking to Jastremski about in the wake of the AFC Championship game. It seems the national media folks are FINALLY starting to put the pieces together on how dirty the NFL has been in this and the narrative is changing. Goodell is an incompetent bum. That was the STRONG opinion of most people prior to deflate gate...he won some people over by going after the team everyone is jealous of, but even that goodwill is starting to crumble as the veil slowly gets lifted on this.
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Good stuff.
Not sure if you or anyone else saw mine.
I predict a settlement 1 game, If it goes full distance, I feel judge may uphold 4 games based upon feeling CBA allowed Goodell the power to rule in the appeal and precedent not to interfere in arbitration process and arbitration awards. Might be wrong n both counts though...
If the NFLPA can show that Goodell was not impartial, then that is a violation of the CBA and this will get tossed. The fact that Pash edited the Wells report before releasing and Reisner served as the NFL's representative during the appeal is pretty damaging for the NFL and pretty strongly shows that the impartiality standard wasn't met. Florio explained this pretty well.
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Now I get it why he (judge) wants a settlement. Seems to me like they should just settle it at 2 games. It doesn't do the league any good if Brady looks worse and I'm not sure many people would believe nothing happened if the judge threw it out . So only thing to gain or lose would be the length of the suspension. Even there it might make sense to take the 2 games as NE should be able to overcome that. Four could be a back breaker if Garoppolo has a melt down.
Brady didn't do anything wrong. He testified to that repeatedly and adamantly under oath. You may believe him to be a pathological liar, and that's fine...however his testimony has made this an all or nothing proposition for him. He cannot settle at this point based on his sworn testimony. So I don't think there will be a settlement that involves any games. Perhaps he would settle for a fine along the lines of Favre for lack of cooperation, but I can't see him agreeing to settle for even a game at this point. He's all in.
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What do I think ? I think the penalty was a bit harsh and if they reduced it to two games it would not be unreasonable. I really haven't read through all the documents released , so I shouldn't be commenting on what I think the judge will do if they don't reach a compromise. If you really want me to guess , I would say that he reduces it . If he was going to uphold it , why would he tell them to settle it ?
I don't think the judge can reduce or change the penalty. He's asking the 2 sides to reach a settlement, but I believe his verdict can only be all or nothing...either the NFLPA's claim that the process violated the CBA based on the several factors they cited is upheld or rejected. If the judge upholds the NFLPA's complaint, then the entire punishment is tossed. If he rejects it and sides with the NFL, then it's 4 games. Unless the 2 sides make a deal prior to his ruling.
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Are you still reading things that guy posts ? If so ....you are a glutton for punishment. It's more rare than a blue moon when he posts something that's not annoying or untrue.
So do you think the judge throws this out or what?
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It took longer than I thought, but the release of that transcript with the irrefutable proof that Goodell is a liar pursuing an agenda fueled witch hunt has finally put this "scandal" on the course I expected, that being that only rabid fans of rival teams would still cling to the increasingly preposterous idea that Brady cheated while the national media and opinion makers are jumping off that sinking ship like rats.
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I'm curious to why you think they are estimates and not real numbers because they were not written down? Are you saying they forgot the real numbers? Are they lying? If the latter, would it really matter if they wrote it down since they would have written down false numbers anyway as part of your imaginary sting operation? Contrary to popular Bostonian belief, everyone is not a liar and a cheat.
Them NOT recording the numbers is actually proof that this wasn't a sting operation. It's more than likely something that fell through the cracks and normally wouldn't have mattered...except they were refereeing a Pats game, you better cross your I's and dot your T's because they are willing/probable to cheat in any facet of the game.
If you turned in a science paper to your professor, the goal of which was to prove that a set of footballs deflated by more than the ideal gas law would suggest they should have, and you provided a set of halftime measurements for each ball but then said "I didn't record the pressure of the balls before the game and I don't really know which gauge I used to test them...but I'm pretty sure each ball was at 12.5PSI or thereabouts and while I thought I used this gauge, my friend says I used the other"...what grade do you think you'd get?
This is a sting, and here's why...*s like Kensil thought that proving this case would be as simple as measuring balls at halftime, seeing that they were below 12.5, and saying "A HA! GOTCHA!". It's painfully obvious nobody in the league office had considered the fact that balls will deflate on their own in cold conditions. Why do you think they are NOW putting a procedure in place to test this? So they measured balls, found them a pound or so deflated, leaked a story that said they were all TWO pounds deflated just to get the public all riled up, and THEN they had their "uh-oh" moment when they realized that pressure drop occurs naturally.
As for the pathetic schadenfreude many of you exhibit who claim that the destruction of Brady's legacy impacts ME in any way, wow. That is about as pathetic as it gets and speaks to the psychological harm the Patriots have inflicted on you all as a fan base. Brady's legacy damage does nothing to me whatsoever. I live in Boston. Everybody here believes the guy is being railroaded and he will receive the loudest ovation you've ever heard when he makes his first appearance this year, whether it's game 1 or game 5. So what you think or what people in Tuscaloosa think doesn't matter a lick to me. The impact of this lies squarely with Brady himself. He's the guy who was unfairly targeted by a league he did so much good for. That's going to be Goodell's legacy and I hope he chokes on it.
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I will admit that failing to record the PSI readings during the AFC Championship Game was a gross error in judgement that even I have trouble accepting VL. However, no one can definitively prove that this mistake as egregious as it was...
Not having beginning measurements by definition means that statements regarding the change in pressure when the balls were measured at halftime are estimates, not actual numbers. I would think that would be a somewhat critical omission of data that the league should have considered before destroying a guy's legacy the way they have.
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Really guy , where do you get off putting unfounded junk like that in print ? Show us the sources that " if a high level official leaked info , he did it with Goodall's blessing."
I'm guessing the same place you get "if a ball boy took balls into a bathroom and deflated them, he did it with Brady's blessing" from.
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The court case is all nothing. The judge either rules to uphold the suspension or vacates it. So Brady either serves 4 games or nothing. That is why in some respects it is surprising that Goddell did not lower the games on appeal to 2 as that number would have seemed more feasible and reasonable to the courts than him trying to compare ball deflation to PEDs. But then again the NFL has never been that smart as their motion to have this heard in NY actually helped Brady.
Either that or Goodell needed a way to get out of this mess without appearing to the bloodthirsty mobs as though he caved in to the Patriots. A judge vacating the suspension allows Roger to shrug and say "well...I did what I could guys...sorry"
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What's funny is that once the Wells report came out and those PSI numbers were released, they did nothing to exonerate the Patriots. They only reinforced the thinking that the Patriots had done something wrong.
The Patriots wanted to let the PSI numbers come out so that they could 'change the narrative' -- their words.
In other words 'we want you to let us defend ourselves publicly so that we can get ahead of the media on this.' They were under investigation. I don't understand why they expected the league to bow to their wishes. When the authorities are investigating someone for potential charges, they don't share all their information with them and everyone else.
We disagree on whether or not the numbers exonerate the Pats, and you have to acknowledge that there are many many people who know a lot more about science than you or I do who believe the actual PSI numbers DO exonerate them. But that aside, let's focus on "when the authorities are investigating someone for potential charges, they don't share their information with them"....This describes the relationship between the police and suspected criminals. Is that the relationship that an NFL team and the NFL league office should have with one another? They are supposed to be partners, aren't they? And you are ignoring the fact that the Patriots weren't actually looking for information to be shared...they were looking for FALSE information to STOP being shared.
There's an underlying narrative starting to emerge here that given Goodell's history shouldn't be dismissed out of hand...and that is that some higher ups in the league office with an axe to grind against the Patriots (i.e. Kensil) set out to trap the Patriots and catch them red-handed at something. Then when it backfired on them and they didn't get the results they were expecting, they went into cover up and spin mode and here we are.These emails and the smoke that's building around Kensil as the source of Mort's original report paint a pretty ugly picture of the league in all this.
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Tell that to Robert Kraft and the rest of Patriot Nation that they're not involved in the court case from a "public perception" and their own.
yeah...but I'm addressing the fact that the judge who ordered the rhetoric toned down has no jurisdiction over the Patriots. They aren't involved in the case legally.
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Yeah, the judge that told both sides to tone down the rhetoric ought to love that.
And by the way...the Judge told both sides to tone it down...i.e. Brady and Goodell. The Patriots organization isn't involved in the court case.
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Yeah, the judge that told both sides to tone down the rhetoric ought to love that.
so no thoughts on the actual content of what was released? I mean, if you are one who can readily "put the pieces together" and conclude that a guy going into a bathroom with footballs = a major cheating scandal headed up by Brady, then this should be even easier math here...it's pretty obvious the league engaged in a deliberate misinformation campaign against one of its own franchises, which calls into serious question their objectivity.
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I absolutely think the severity of the punishment would have been altered if Brady had come out afterward and said something to the effect of, "We were wrong, we're sorry, it won't happen again." He'd appeal it and get, at worst, a one game suspension. Probably 0.
I think any intention the league had of keeping this as down low as possible went out the window when Kraft came out and demanded an apology from the league. In addition, Brady continued to be defiant. The league may have very well downplayed the Patriots' misdeeds and swept it aside, but they weren't going to take that.
Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant?
People throw themselves at the mercy of the court in a confession all the time, and it sometimes (often) lessens what would be a harsher penalty. It applies to courtrooms and it happens in the NFL, too. And yes, that's how it should work. Honesty and integrity should mean something.
Yeah we disagree there. Any organization should have clearly defined rules and clearly defined sanctions when those rules are violated. "You do A, you get B. Done". It's hard for me to fathom why the league is an active participant in trying to destroy the legacy and tarnish the image of a guy with his stature and his track record in the league. Frankly, it's weird.
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TL/DR which scenario do you believe is more likely:
Scenario 1:The NFL is out to get the Pats and Brady because they're mean. They want publicity by slamming one of their largest market teams. Goodell is on a power trip. Choose one or more.
Scenario 2: McNally disappears in to the restroom before the game, with a bag full of footballs, to use a urinal which doesn't actually exist and a guy calls himself the deflator as he attempts to lose weight. In reality, they were deflating footballs. The QB knew damn well the balls were underinflated, as any top notch QB knows what an over or under inflated football feels like, and offered autographed souveniers to keep it under the table. This discounting the backpeddling (Kraft) destruction of relevant data (Brady) and web of lies the Pats have spun since then. (Including but not limited to Brady's "cellphone-destruction schedule", wherein he still had and handed over a phone that, by his own timetable, should have been destroyed.)
Scenario 3: It's all the Colts' fault.
In the case of Scenario 2, the NFL had no choice but to intervene or the public backlash of the Pats getting away scott free (again) would have been enormous. Bear in mind, the situation was leaked to ESPN before the NFL could even react. There was zero opportunity to squash it, and it is more probable than not they would have if given the opportunity. So, this time, the Pats and Brady had to take a slap on the wrist.
I think if Brady had taken his medicine and admitted it instead of misdirecting and lying he gets, maybe, a one game suspension which he can probably appeal to 0. Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are. Which is fine, because with the league * off now they'll never turn a blind eye or try to cover up anything for the Pats again if given the opportunity.
I don't agree with this entirely, but I want to focus on this statement of yours: "Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are."
So in other words, the league determined that a violation of some kind occurred, but they are basing the severity of the punishment on how the accused responds to the accusation? Is that how a professionally run organization should be operating? Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant? If you park your car illegally and your meter maid gives you a ticket, is the fine increased because you took it to court? That's the problem many people have...the discipline is so far over the top that it comes off as personal. I know that feels good to a lot of people because of the team/player involved, but if you step away from that and consider that it could happen to one of your teams/players too, you might start to see why this whole thing smells pretty bad.
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I think this thing is about to get even uglier. Did you read Kessler's complaint? Good glory. He tore the commish and league apart. So many details in there that no one knew like Pash editing the Wells Report before it became public. I believe Kessler said this was a new low even for the league. LOL.
I saw this yesterday...I can't believe that isn't a bigger story. The league is standing on the "independence" of the Wells Report, yet the league themselves made edits to the report before it was finalized?! That reads like a North Korean Courtroom case.
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I love how when one guy says something that Pats fans like, it suddenly becomes fact.
if it proved to be true that the guy who was in charge of conducting whatever this halftime measurement was then went and deliberately leaked lies about it, would it change your opinion of what went on here? Because frankly, if the league is shown to have allowed the first half of that game to potentially be played with deflated footballs so that they could catch the Patriots in the act of doing something, I'd be pretty livid as a Colts fan. It would also make me think that the "integrity" concerns over air pressure are contrived.
Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)
in NFL General
Posted
Interesting how not a word of that guy's testimony appears in the Wells report despite him being interviewed 4 times by Wells, isn't it? I wonder why Wells left his testimony out?