Bad Morty
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Posts posted by Bad Morty
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Yeah, that part is huge IF true. I have to believe the NFL lawyers are giving Roger a lot of counsel on this. The science makes up 50-60 percent of the report so the rest loses its luster if you don't have the actual violation. Not to mention the shotty job of the way the NFL tried to handle the science to prove it. Then you also have the CBA violation of Vincent handing out the punishment which could get this thing tossed just on that point alone. I don't see Brady making any deals to avoid court if they want to suspend him.
So basically, everyone who dismissed AEI and all the other criticisms of the Wells science was wrong if the league itself is now acknowledging the flaws.
I tend to agree with you - if I'm Brady, and I know that the league thinks it's on shaky ground with the science, I go all the way with it. Seriously - they can't prove the balls were deflated. Nothing else matters!
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I have no opinion on the veracity of what Cole said, was just pointing out that he was being misrepresented.
The NFL acknowledging doubts about the science is a pretty significant concession. It has been the speculation of one of our local sports radio guys here (who is not a Pats supporter...just the opposite) that the "out" here to avoid court is that the league will eventually exonerate Brady based on the weak science but that he will serve a smaller suspension for not cooperating with the investigation.
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Indeed...
Some of the bones people have picked with the league about this whole mess are just plain ridiculous...
"Wasted money on an investigation" - So wait, they shouldn't have bothered bringing in an independent investigator, maybe one who's had experience of NFL investigations? What they should have done it in house, because I can hear the cries of league bias all the way from New England here in the green and verdant land of England (original and best
). As for the money... is it tax payers money?! No it's league funded so what do you care about how much it cost. "Should have spoken to the Pats prior to the AFC Championship game"/"It was entrapment I tells ya!" - So let's pick a horrible metaphor... you have information that someone has been I dunno stealing previously but never been caught and there's no easily available historical evidence. Do you really think the right way is to have a quiet word in their ear? You'd pretty much have to accuse them of being a thief knowing you have no proof which can open you up to all sorts or things. Or you can be aware, keep an eye out, and you know what if they do ahead and steal again on your watch it's their own darn fault. For all this arguing about science etc etc. the undeniable fact is a Patriots employee acted improperly in removing those balls. The argument is about what exactly he did with them and on who's instruction. Arguments that their is total innocence and nothing wrong happened at all are just blind homeristic fandom.
You know what, this isn't about what happened any more. I'd imagine for the average fan they're just tired about this being news and how it's dragging on for so long. But again.. who's to fault for that? There have been cries of the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Let's just for argument sake say Brady knew, he told his guys to prep the balls in a certain way but within the legal standard and one guy went too far. IF he'd just held his hands up saying hey I like them prepared in a certain way, I asked my guys to do this, they way to far then he'd probably have got away with zilch or at worse a slap on the wrists. But no, the whole Pats organisation circled wagons and started demanding apologies while making really badly though comparisons to extremist organisations. For me that's the bug bear for people... the sheer arrogance shown by members of the organisation, by Brady, and by a large proportion of the fan base. Take this topic for example, there is some decent conversation between fans on both sides about the technical aspects and the science... but it's ruined by jingoistic ra ra.
Meh I say, Meh!
/Rant
What they should have done was handed out a $50K fine to the team just for the suspicion that ball tampering occurred and moved on. What they've don is created a major issue out of what should have been a minor issue. Whatever happened had zero bearing on the outcome of the game. That should be the standard when launching major investigations.
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Okay, well if the plot was not carried out, which according to AEI it was not, then there was no advantage gained. Also, the plotting could have been done for purely monetary reasons according to multiple former players that commented on Bountygate.
Yes. I agree. If no opposing players were actually injured, then there was no advantage gained. Similarly, if footballs weren't deflated below where you'd expect them to be deflated based on the outside conditions, then no advantage was gained.
We're talking about motivation here in both cases. So then I will ask you...why would a team offer a monetary reward to players if they took opposing players out of the game? I mean you aren't going to tell me with a straight face that the ultimate motivation behind a scheme to reward players for injuring other players had nothing to do with improving the Saints odds of winning, are you? Can we just agree on this one, very obvious thing?
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But according to the AEI report the Saints did not injure opposing players at any higher rate than other teams. If they were actually carrying out this plot to injure players, then they would have a higher rate of injuring opposing players, yet somehow that did not occur according to AEI.
I'll try this again...I'm questioning the comment that plotting to injure opposing players (whether carried out successfully or not) wasn't done for the goal of gaining an advantage in a game.
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You got a link to that?
They were talking about it on Sports Radio...it's a podcast I think.
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But according to AEI the Saints did not injure opposing players at a higher rate than other teams. Are you questioning the quality of the report that AEI released regarding Bountygate?
no...I'm questioning the comment that plotting to injure players doesn't impact the outcome of games.
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Jason Cole is apparently reporting that the NFL is now acknowledging that the science doesn't hold up and would be willing to cut a deal with Brady if he agrees to not take them to court that would essentially exonerate him but leave in place a smaller penalty for not cooperating with the investigation.
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Again, he didn't attempt to rig the game to his benefit.
yeah...knocking out the opponent's star players doesn't benefit anyone...lol
Tell you what - you set the football to whatever PSI you like and we'll deliberately injure Luck. Who gets the advantage there?
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Thank you. Guilty as sin IMO. I don't see the "grey area."
I have no problem with that, because in context, the violation of making sure the balls are legal and at the setting you prefer is a very different violation than intentionally setting the balls at levels outside the legal limits.
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What do you think Brady and the deflator could have possibly talked about for 15 minutes ? That's a ton of dialog . According to your theory , Jastremski must have just kept denying he did anything to the balls. 15 whole minutes of that.. C'mon.Then you have stuff like "you alright ?" Why would Tom Brady give a crap about this guy ?
Doesn't this make you wonder at least a little bit if you really believe what you are saying. Why would this jerk take air out of balls on his own... an incredible thing to believe .. I mean why would he risk all he risked to do that ? ...
Also how could Brady be mad at Jastremski if officials put too much air in the balls ? They must have obviously done that at the Jet game. We know the protocol is for the ball boys to prepare the balls to the QB's liking. The QB's check them out .. gives them back and they are later presented to the officials. Jastremski is then "TOTALLY" out of the equation... right ? The only reason I can think of as to why Brady would be mad at him is if he was suppose to somehow check (or maybe alter them ?) them "AFTER" the officials OK'd them for play.
Do I have something wrong here ? I must have because I've never read what I have above by anyone before...
You have to consider how this might have played out accepting the premise that Brady wouldn't have been foolish enough to ask those guys to get him balls that were deflated below the limit. So start there - Brady tells these guys after the Jets game "I want them at 12.5, and I don't want anymore excuses about the refs not inflating them properly. It's YOUR job to get me balls the way I want them". So now we are into a serious gray area. Did Brady just order those guys to violate a rule? Not really. Is Brady going to be shocked and amazed if he finds out that those guys were doing something to the balls after the refs approved them? No...of course not. So what do you call that? I'm your boss, I'm at a sales meeting, you are 45 minutes away in traffic...I tell you "you better get your butt here in 30 minutes or your job is on the line!". Did I just order you to violate the speed limit? Am I going to be astonished to learn that you got a ticket for speeding?
So now fast forward...that's the environment we are in...so now all of a sudden Monday morning rolls around and the media is exploding with NFL leaked stories that the balls you played with last night were all 2 pounds under the limit. What are you thinking at that point? Are you not going to immediately get on the phone with your guy and find out what the he11 is going on? Is it really hard to imagine that being a fairly lengthy conversation?
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Yes but the thing is I think you switched gears on us. I remember you explaining that by saying you thought the balls were tampered with but in a "small way." Then , as I remember .. I could be wrong .. you said it's possible the balls were stuck in the bathroom and Brady knew nothing about it. Cool... But now aren't you saying the science "proves" the balls were never tampered with to begin with ? I can go back and check if you like. But anyway .. how do you "now" or "presently " explain away the deflator and ESPN remarks ? If I'm wrong , I apologize in advance ...
here it is, summary form:
1) Over-inflated balls in Jets game tick Brady off...yells at ball guys to make sure he gets 12.5 balls like he asked for. That's the extent of Brady's involvement
2) Ball guy takes balls into bathroom and at the very least gauges them all to make sure refs didn't screw them again, at most he lets air out of balls that measure over the 12.5 spec down to 12.5
Lying about bathroom trip explained...confusion by Brady at press conference explained...lack of scientific evidence of ball deflation explained.
That's it.
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So you've explained away all that Brady contact with the fired NE employee. Cool . Now how about the issue of being called the deflator and the ESPN remark ? We all have opinions and some are tainted while others might be more objective. For me it's like a murder trial based on circumstantial evidence. The defendant doesn't have a solid alibi. He was having an affair with a younger woman. He just took out a large insurance policy on his wife. None of those issues on it's own is enough to convict but you see juries convicting in about 3-4 hours on that kind of evidence. Plus it's 9 to 12 people agreeing on "beyond a reasonable doubt." Ohh and the defendant might have 13 years of a clean work record to boot.
Just a rebuttal to all you have posted in the last few days....
you already know what I think happened...no need for me to re-hash it for the hundredth time.
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I have no problem on your point of view. He refused to proclaim his innocents when ask before. Before what I ask? Before he knew the finale fines, lost draft picks and suspension is what. I wonder had Brady had it to do over would he have cooperated? He sure wouldn't have cost his team such a severe penalty had he came forward when ask to. All the excuses in the world do not answer why he didn't cooperate in the first place. When your bias you will come up with everything that could be thought of to justify why you feel the way you do. You pick and choose what you want to believe no matter what.
You can't take anything Brady said in his initial comments on this as evidence of anything because of the false information the league allowed to be spread about the magnitude of the deflation. Brady stood at the podium believing that the balls were all 2lbs lower than they should have been and could only have thought that somebody did something to the balls without his knowledge at that point. "I don't believe so" sounds pretty precisely like a guy thinking "I didn't do anything, but clearly something was done because the balls were all 2 lbs light".
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Other then the groin kick, or the multiple times he's yelled in an officials face or chased them off the field, yeah classy guy.....oh yeah there was that period when he benefitted from the illegally taped defensive signals, but that was all on the coach anyway so......
Lol. You can tell who is going to be really upset if this penalty gets reduced or eliminated.
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Florio hits this right out of the park http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/24/search-for-new-information-about-deflategate-should-include-nfls-next-333-games/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
It makes way too much sense, so therefore Goodell won't do it. But why not make it a point this year to measure and collect the halftime data on all footballs and compare the results to the Patriots footballs from the AFC Championship game? It would be the only way to definitively answer the question about whether or not the Patriots balls acted 'normally' or if they were tampered with...and if the data shows that there was no tampering, the Pats should get their picks back and their fine reimbursed.
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...lets not forget the time he missed the birth of his first illegitimate child..kind of left Mrs. Moynahan hanging.....he's quite the ambassador!
ah ok - I'm sorry - I thought I was dealing with an adult here. Carry on.
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...like the time he pushed Suzie Kolberg (who was just trying to do her job) aside and ran off the field like a 10 year old (after a win no less)...he's quite the amassador!
yeah that never happened, but whatever.
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I get you and it's a fair point but to play the DA somewhat history is littered with people of previous good character who have done some pretty bad stuff. In the same way we shouldn't prejudge someone for having a criminal record, you shouldn't prejudge someone for not if that makes sense.
In the real world of course we all will, and to some degree it is of some use in assessing people. You should then ask the question.. why would the league be willing to go after one of the squeeky clean megastars of the league? It's not like they've had their hand forced with the Peterson/Rice situation. I'm just saying they wouldn't do it on a whim.
When you are building a circumstantial case against someone, as this clearly is, your past clean (or unclean) track record is as relevant a piece of "evidence" as anything else, since it's all circumstantial. If the murder weapon has your fingerprints and dna all over it and the surveillance camera in the corner got a clear video of you committing the murder, well...your past then becomes irrelevant.
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Can you quantify what you mean by this, I mean he's been fined by the league before...
ok I don't recall what he's been fined for, but I'm sure it's happened. What I'm trying to say is this...the NFL is filled with offenders of various stripes. You've got your "Rice/Peterson/Hardy/Roethlisburger/etc" off-field stuff...you've got your PED users...and then you've got your "guy who wore his socks too high/had a logo on during a press conference/name the silly minutiae type stuff the NFL fines players for" type of offenders. Brady has been nowhere near the "serious offender" categories. He's never made the league look bad before, and in fact has been an excellent ambassador for the game to date.
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While there's nothing that would fall under the quite wide term "dishonest" he has at times shown less than perfect character on the field so let's not paint him as a saint. Again to be clear I'm not singling him out here saying he's terrible compared to his peers but let's not put him on some moral pedestal.
oh believe me - I don't put anybody I'm not intimately acquainted with on any pedestals. I'm simply saying that he has never come under any league disciplinary review before (that I'm aware of), which over the course of a 13 year career says something about him.
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No offense but we've heard this account before . Is it possible , yeah . Do I have to buy it ? No and I don't
That's fine - you are free to disbelieve it and I'd expect nothing less. But that account is every bit as plausible or implausible as your account that a guy with not a single mark on his record in 13 years is suddenly involved in a preposterous undercover operation to release a fractional amount of air pressure from footballs.
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IMO it's silly evidence. It's also my opinion that ball boys would not alter balls with the QB having no knowledge of it.
and the science isn't clear that the balls were altered. The science IS clear that the Mortensen report, which the NFL shamefully allowed to stay out there, was wildly inaccurate. So put yourself in Brady's shoes. He goes on a talk show early Monday morning. They bring up deflated balls. He's obviously caught completely off guard, thinks they are joking, laughs, etc. By the time he hangs up, the story has blown up and the exaggerated condition of the balls gets out there. If you are Brady and you didn't do anything but Mortensen is making this report and the NFL isn't denying it...don't you have to start thinking it's true? So what do you do? You call up your guys and say "what the heck is going on?! Did you guys do anything? You SURE??". I'd want to grill those guys more than Wells grilled him before I started commenting so that I didn't start saying things that would come back at me.
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Yeah and so what ? What I said was that he would never be prosecuted .
1) How would they really prove it.
2) Who and why would anyone try to prosecute him.
Because two *s Reiss and McCan are making a big deal out of pure nonsense doesn't make it any less silly.
All it is is further evidence that Brady went in there with the truth on his side and was unafraid in the least to testify under oath. The guy has zero track record of being dishonest, and there's no compelling evidence to suggest he's being dishonest now, unless you think a lengthy phone call and meeting with Jastremski is evidence of a cover up versus evidence of a guy who was told by Chris Mortensen that all of the footballs he used were 2 lbs too light and therefore wanted to grill his equipment guys to make sure they didn't do anything before he started commenting publicly.
). As for the money... is it tax payers money?! No it's league funded so what do you care about how much it cost.
Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results
in NFL General
Posted
Not just Pats fans...trust me...the tide of public opinion will turn as time goes by and more and more people realize the NFL has made a bizarre over-reach here with very little in the way of evidence. This guy has it exactly right http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tom-bradys-deflategate-punishment-will-send-fans-packing-2015-06-25?siteid=yhoof2