Girlzarefanstoo
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Posts posted by Girlzarefanstoo
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Shaun Merriman on FS1 saying that teams have known that the Pats have been cheating and the league has ignored it for years.....
Said that when in the locker room at Gillette, they'd pass around cards with what the plans were because they were afraid the Pats were bugging the locker rooms
If this is true (and it may only be their worries, not reflective of the facts) it's a sad state of affairs.
I'm most upset at the "don't be a snitch" mentality of our culture. If someone is cheating/stealing/committed other crimes, they bring the punishment on themselves. The "snitch" just tells the truth.
I do hope that anyone that knows anything concrete and witnessed anything firsthand will come forward. It's well past time for the cleaning up of the league. And that goes for any team, not just piling on the pats.
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I'll do my best to explain what Patriots fans (or in this case NFL Sirius XM Radio) are talking about when they make this point.
There were two gauges used at different times...their readings had a difference of approximately .4 PSI.
If before the game New England's balls were inflated to a desired PSI of 12.5 but Walt Anderson used the higher reading gauge, then the balls actually would have been inflated to 12.1 PSI even though the higher gauge read 12.5 PSI.
If before the game the Colts balls were inflated to a desired PSI of 13.0 but Walt Anderson used the lower reading gauge, then the balls actually would have been inflated to 13.4 PSI even though the lower gauge read 13.0 PSI. Follow so far?
Walt Anderson could not recall which gauge was used when he measured each team's footballs before the game, so that is scenario is entirely plausible.
Here's where it gets interesting. When 4 of the Colts balls were measured at halftime, they had lost between .05 PSI and .85 PSI...which averages out to .56 of PSI lost. When the Patriots balls were measured at halftime, they had lost between .25 PSI and 1.6 PSI...but that is over the span of 11 balls. What if the 4 Colts balls that were measure just happened to be 4 that were on the lower amount of PSI loss? If we take the measurements of 4 of the lower measured balls for the Patriots, do you know what that averages out to?
.57 PSI lost
The Colts balls average loss was .56 PSI...and since there is no way to know what the remainder of the Colts balls would have measured had they not run out of time, you simply cant discount the possibility that the 4 they happened to measure could have been on the lower end of PSI loss.
Two issues for me. None of the above explains in one iota the illegal possession of the balls taken against the rules out of the ref's locker room. None of the above explains the nickname "the deflator" from early in 2014. None of the above explains the comment, "I haven't gone to ESPN, yet!" If I were sitting on a jury these would be the kind of issues that would likely decide it for me. By the way, I really am as neutral and objective as I can be. Not a Colts fan. Not a Patriots hater. Just a football lover.
All the information above, quite frankly, I see as a desperate reaching for straws. If... if... if... I personally don't find it that interesting. In general, the simplest solution is likely the most accurate. I don't do probability and statistics, but for all of the elements to line up (gauge #1 on team #1, gauge #2 on team #2) would likely push it much higher into a low probability.
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NAPTOWNCLOWN, on 13 May 2015 - 1:03 PM, said:
Crazy...over some air.
It's not over some air. It's over purposely breaking the rules and trying to cover it up, no matter how trivial the rule is perceived to be.
It's this simple - if you think a rule is stupid, irrelevant or just don't like the rule, you lobby to change that rule.
If you don't want every other team to have the advantage that you are taking you don't lobby for the rules to be changed, you sneak around, steal balls, deflate them and then play your games as though nothing has happened. Maybe/probably for years on end. That is what people are up in arms about not "just a little air."
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Complete. Waste.
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You could not have illustrated my point more clearly if you tried to do so:
Girlzarefanstoo, on 12 May 2015 - 3:10 PM, said:
ummmm.... when you're completely wrong about facts. When you ignore posts with facts you can't refute. When you make "facts" up. When you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact? When your arguments actually cancel each other out. When you make outlandish statements that have no basis in fact then base your argument on that outlandish statement (called "circular reasoning")
I could go on but the other sad thing about you is you're not interested in learning or growing, just arguing.
It would seem your Chargers sticky towel incident is going to be one of the main things Brady uses in his defense along with other examples of ball tampering (Minn this year) that were either ignored by the league or only punished with a warning or small fine.
1.When you ignore posts with facts you can't refute
2. When you make outlandish statements that have no basis in fact then base your argument on that outlandish statement (called "circular reasoning"). In this case, the Chargers being entirely exonerated by the NFL and their fine being returned to them when THEY won the judgement, will be used to defeat the NFL's judgment
The only reason I have interacted with you at all this week is in the hope that something that was said would break through for you. You have no idea how much I care about you - the person, not the football fan. I am very concerned that life will not go well for you unless the character traits you have shown in this forum are changed. It's bigger than football. Yes... no matter how much we love the sport, there are lots of things bigger than football.
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What's the old idiom again? If you think everyone else is wrong.....
When an entire community has a problem with you - a wise person might want to listen and learn from the criticism.
This is a really good place. There are good people here. There is solid, logical interesting communication that goes on here. The problem with this week has NOT been this community. In my years here, over and over people have been able to disagree agreeably - it's one of the reasons I hang around here.
Wise people glean from other's wisdom.
Wise people recognize they don't know everything and are open to learning from others and seeing from other's perspectives.
Wise people are humble enough to be able to take criticism and grow from it. In fact they welcome the input of others.
Wise people actually care ABOUT others when expressing their own opinions.
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Huh? Since when is a stance on something suppose to change just because people disagree?
ummmm.... when you're completely wrong about facts. When you ignore posts with facts you can't refute. When you make "facts" up. When you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact? When your arguments actually cancel each other out. When you make outlandish statements that have no basis in fact then base your argument on that outlandish statement (called "circular reasoning")
I could go on but the other sad thing about you is you're not interested in learning or growing, just arguing.
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Why the cheap shot then? At least have the decency to PM me. I had no idea you had any issue with my stances on this topic since last week ...
Pretty much everyone has had issues with your stances on this topic. AND Everyone has communicated those issues and you have done nothing but ramp up the behaviors. Some of us have tried really hard to be respectful, stick to the issue at hand and avoid personal attacks.
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From the interview with Ted Wells today. Which, by the way, only happened because of Brady's lawyer calling him out as not independent. Otherwise he would have been quiet and let his report stand for itself. Here's a couple key nuggets:
» "I believe the conclusions have been proven. I used the words 'more probable than not' because that is what's in the rules."
» "When the Colts made the complaint, no one at the league office took the complaint seriously. (The NFL) flipped the complaint by email to the operations people so they knew about it. They told the refs. ... There was no sting operation."
» Wells' final point to reporters: "What drove the decision in this report was one thing, it was the evidence. And I could not ethically ignore the importance and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence. I mean the notion that (Jim) McNally is referring to himself as 'The Deflator' before the season starts and threatened them that he had not gone to ESPN yet, no one can ignore the implications of that text message and no one can see it as a joke, and nor is it circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence and it is important."
Highlights are my own.
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It normally wouldn't have been a big deal, but the organization is a serial offender.
I actually disagree - it would have been a big deal regardless of organization. It was flat out knowingly, intentionally, secretively breaking the rules A.K.A. Cheating.
Cheating of any kind should be dealt with harshly in order engender fear and compliance and so work towards preserving the integrity of the sport.
However, most other organizations would have been a first time violation and would have had much lesser penalties.
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SEE MY ANSWER IN YOUR QUOTE:
That's only in your mind, not on paper. The SB was the most fair and regulated game probably in the history of the NFL. Every detail was taken in to account. So I can only imagine you are saying that because they beat the Colts with 2 quarters of light balls. But we both know the second half was played with proper balls and we know how that ended. What you are missing is that in the statement issued with the punishment yesterday they made it quite clear that this activity was highly likely to have been occurring throughout the entire 2014 season and perhaps beyond that. That would mean they were CHEATING throughout the season to GET to the playoffs and beyond.
If it were up to the non-Patriots fans, I'm sure every win would have asterisks next to it, and even some losses. I don't hate the Patriots. Most fans actually don't really care about your team as much as you and other fans like to think. I don't support cheating and believe in holding cheaters accountable to the max, no matter what their team name. I agree with the league the second offense brings a higher and harsher penalty. A third offense should be a DRASTIC penalty, up to and including stripping the right of ownership from Kraft and forcing a sale.
They cheated, got caught, will pay the price. But you can't delude yourself and think that the "cheating" actually led to an outcome that would have been different had the balls been 12.5 PSI for all 4 quarters. That's la-la land. La-la land is thinking the outcome has anything to do with whether cheating was wrong or not. AGAIN in the report they clearly state it didn't matter whether or not the cheating was effective. The simple fact cheating happened is what brought this down on your team.
I'm mad the most because Brady lied to me and that they didn't need to do this foolish thing. I don't blame you for being angry and I entirely agree with you. In fact, the need to cheat to assure every possible chance at victory indicates to me someone who is unbalanced and extremely insecure. Patriots have the Colts number and nothing was going to allow a Colts win, except maybe cheating on the Colts part. It was just dumb and stupid.
And per the Wells report, 3 of the Colts 4 balls tested at half-time by one of the officials actually had the Colts balls under 12.5 PSI... very interesting... it's in the report, forget which page.
The rest of this post is not specifically replying to you but in general to the theme of the Patriot's posters since the news came yesterday.
Cheating matters.
Cheating is the diametric opposite of "sportsmanship."
Cheating is shameful - the appropriate reaction would be to be ashamed of the behavior, not justify it.
Cheating and being caught cheating is not comparable to anyone else's behavior. "But Atlanta did this..." is equal to "But Johnny did it too." You cheat. You pay the price what ever it is determined to be. I have no patience for the "They only got X games, it's UNFAIR *insert whiney voice tone*"
The things that simply cannot be explained away or balanced out with other "facts:"
1. Being called the "Deflator" as a nickname earlier in 2014. There is no reason whatsoever someone would have that nickname without all the rest of this being true.
2. Sneaking the footballs from the Refs room against all rules and regulations. There is not a single reason that can be explained as anything other than intentional breaking of the rules.
3. The balls WERE tampered with. Period. After being sealed with officials' seals they had no business touching those balls until the game began. Simply taking those balls after that point, no matter the inflation level, would have been tampering.
There are a few Patriots' fans that have had an appropriate reaction, and I have recognized and honored that attitude. I'm assuming in real life and not on this message board there are a lot more. But the rest of you are a sad, sad lot. Your "pennants" and "rings" are to you just as the ring was to Golom, and you have as much valor and honor as he did. "My precious...."
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On paper. The Pat's also don't have to Pay Brady his $1,88 million during that time either, so it is really like a $120,000 fine, in one sense.
I'm pretty sure the Patriots pay the salary to the league to then go to charity. Not positive, but perhaps someone can chime in on that?
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Boy, Brady's lawyer is quite the blowhard isn't he? He's out there so the press isn't asking "Why isn't Tom having a press conference himself?"
Tom has never once said, "I am not guilty of this charge." I simply cannot imagine any player who is not guilty not saying it clearly, without weasel words and as many times as a microphone is near their mouths.
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Yes, did not see the draft picks at all. No one did.
But it is what it is. Brady will appeal and on to defend our title in Sept.
Actually Tom won't defend that until around October and your title looks like this:
*S*u*p*e*r* *B*o*w*l* X*L*I*X* C*h*a*m*p*i*o*n*s*
Just for laughs, did you actually read the report that came out with the penalties? They made it clear that this had apparently happened for at least a year and maybe more. Tainted.
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Yep. Goodell is a complete joke and hopefully this spells the end of him as I hoped it would. Brady will appeal and get the suspension reduced or potentially thrown out altogether. I am anxious to see how far he takes this with his rep on the line.
Next season will be fun defending our 4th Lombardi!
I expected your reaction to be nothing short of this. Every prediction you made about the penalties was wrong.
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Not being familiar with such things, does Brady's suspension bar him from all team activities -- meetings, practice, etc., or is he just not allowed to play on Sunday?
During the actual suspension but not the preseason activities and preseason games.
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lol- you noticed ;) that was my first comment on the whole thing. I was just waiting for the report. It is what it is ;)
I am out of likes - so consider yourself "liked!" If my team were in this mess that's exactly how I would have handled it. You have my respect.
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This is strong:
"From Troy Vincent's letter to Tom Brady:
"With respect to your particular involvement, the report established that there is substantial and credible evidence to conclude you were at least generally aware of the actions of the Patriots' employees involved in the deflation of the footballs and that it was unlikely that their actions were done without your knowledge. Moreover, the report documents your failure to cooperate fully and candidly with the investigation, including by refusing to produce any relevant electronic evidence (emails, texts, etc.), despite being offered extraordinary safeguards by the investigators to protect unrelated personal information, and by providing testimony that the report concludes was not plausible and contradicted by other evidence.
"Your actions as set forth in the report clearly constitute conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the game of professional football. The integrity of the game is of paramount importance to everyone in our league, and requires unshakable commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Each player, no matter how accomplished and otherwise respected, has an obligation to comply with the rules and must be held accountable for his actions when those rules are violated and the public's confidence in the game is called into question.' "
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Super Bowl XLIX Champions*
Actually it should read
*S*u*p*e*r* *B*o*w*l* X*L*I*X* C*h*a*m*p*i*o*n*s*
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Systematic Cheating.
Been doing it for years.
Just glad to see they held the organization responsible too.
That's why I said "If it's ever able to be proven..." but we agree
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This is fine if it was only a one game thing - however if it is ever able to be proven this has happened over years then it will need to be readdressed. At that point a one year suspension would be in order.
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If you did nothing wrong then why a new rule about no sticky towels?
They didn’t cough up towels when told to do so. They tried to hide them. The towels had sticky crap on them which – if they were being hidden – makes it more probable than not that an advantage was being gained that the Chargers wanted concealed. And the NFL’s Competition Committee laid down a new [rule]. No sticky towels."
Last reply for the day as I have to get to work. You are deflecting AGAIN. You want us to talk about anything and everything except the case at hand. We aren't discussing the Chargers dismissed charges, or some event from some team's potential infraction in 1918, or God only knows what else you'll bring up - we're discussing the pending punishment that is being prepared to mete out to your team which has met the standard of guilt in the NFL which is simply stated, "More probably than not."
You don't get to decide what's "more probably than not" only an official investigatory team does and they have a standard against what it must be weighed and measured. They do not get to pick and choose the facts, only follow where the facts lead.
However futile the attempt may be, I'm going to give you another logic lesson. The ones you think are so unnecessary.
You have quoted an "opinion piece" as though it were fact.
I have given you the established facts. Established through the official NFL report. They are not equal. Opinions do not equal facts.
Opinions do not have the weight of facts. Opinions have the weight of a feather versus the weight of a 10 lb bar of lead (facts).
In the Chargers' case the facts exonerated them from all wrong in the end. You don't get to quote the beginning of the process as though it were the end.
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So that graph you quoted pretty much sounds like "more probably than not" they cheated but got off on a technicality. And let me ask you, if the Pats did not turn over pine tarred towels, how do you think the league would have proceeded?
You do not know the "facts" in this case. You have grabbed an article, ASSUMED what you think happened and are running with it. Every "fact" you state is not correct. Seriously, you are so off-base it's scary to watch you.
You said "read the article" but you must not have or you read/hear what you want to hear and ignore the rest. I suspect the later.
The original league findings were:
1. Towels weren't illegal.
2. No substance on the balls.
3. The towels weren't handed over quickly enough to the refs (but they WERE handed over, during the game).
The team countered that the equipment manager did not realize what the ref was asking for and why.
The team's appeal was upheld and no charges, no fines were levied.
Again, you are dead wrong.
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Good heavens ... I think we are done.
We can only wish you were...
Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)
in NFL General
Posted
Weeks. And. Weeks. Of. This....