bluebombers87

At this point that’s on the players even more so.

Cant lose Franklin. Darius is a shell of who he used to be.

Bad defensive series there.

Agreed. That would require a huge amount of coordination without anyone talking. I think people use the straw man of “they think it’s rigged” as a way of deflecting away from the real possibility that calls had been made to influence a particular outcome. Interestingly, we could today with the assistance of AI go back and see how many games have had their over/under, spread, etc. impacted by a call in the last minutes of the game. The data is all there.

The Buckner hit is legit. But Pittman needs to ask how many times Hills been fined for doing the same thing.

I agree with the first three paragraphs. But the last two I want to discuss in greater detail. While I agree it’s entirely possible there is punishment behind the scenes, no one can say what it is. You’d think that with all of the former refs out there they’d be able to say there’s anything more than game assignments. Additionally, I think most fans would have some of their concerns made if they knew what the overall discipline or consequences were, not necessarily who specifically got what punishment, just knowing what was on the table. I know most business don’t need to do that but most business aren’t public facing to the extent that the NFL is. Your assumption is that the league(s) would admit to finding out about officials gambling. In your own words you said it would be catastrophic for the league(s). Tim Donaghy was known due to the FBI stumbling onto it. The FBI has a certain level of requirements in reporting their dealings (plus they’re leaky as all sin). The league(s) aren’t required to admit anything in this regard and are even incentivized to not do so due to the damage it would cause. It’s a matter of self-preservation and could be considered an internal matter (most companies have some sort of vague rule about misconduct). I’m not saying that this is even happening. What I am saying is that today, it’s easier than ever for this type of thing to happen. One should never doubt the abilities or commitment of criminals where money is involved. I’ve seen pretty sophisticated MOs for simple property crimes and fraud.

I look at it as of a defender has the wherewithal to know they’ve been beat, they can take the penalty, just like in the NBA. And 15 yards is a pretty significant chunk of yardage that in almost any situation is gonna set the offense up significantly. If the pass is still caught, decline the penalty. If it isn’t, there was no guarantee it would have been caught either way. I think back to Rodgers chucking one for the end zone from his side of the field. PI was called and it put it at the 1 yard line. Overall the NCAA rule limits the impact an opinion can have on the game, which is ultimately a good thing.

I would hate for it to get to that point but I imagine that would also be a point of contention for the owners and the fans. Networks would be in a tough spot there.

Ask *without being snarky. And I did explain. Just like in all things, you go with the person who has better insight, which as I said, is almost always going to be a player vs someone on a message board. The situation in which this was mentioned was one person disagreeing with Pat, Darius Butler, and AJ Hawk (and now Irsay and the league itself). I said, with all due respect, I would side with the players. Of course there will be exceptions, which is why I added the caveat. But as a general rule, players who have played the game at the highest level will have more insight than people on a message board. It’s unfortunate you feel that way but at the end of the day, my take on this particular topic was not unreasonable.

I think it’s too early to move on from AR as his upside is still leaps and bounds better than what options we have. We’ve seen his abilities and potential in flashes from his first couple of games. However, we’ve also seen the importance of having a quality backup, which aren’t going to be cheap and are gonna be hard to keep. Minshew is borderline a starter. If he figures out the turnover portion he could easily be a starter for other teams. So the question is do we devote salary to a player who may not (and hopefully never is) needed. That money can be very well used in other areas of needs.

It would not surprise me at all of the other owners agree with Irsay and are letting him be the mouthpiece rather than putting them all on the line for potential discipline. Remember, the owners determine a lot in terms of how the league is run. Seeing an owner like Irsay who does hold a decent bit of sway come out and make these comments shows me that there may be some behind the scenes movements we aren’t privy to.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the colts have already offered a contract extension to him and it was less than what he thinks he can get. Which I don’t blame him. So he’s using this season to try and show his value to both the colts and the league. I would love to keep him as he is a pretty good WR2 but a lacking WR1. I’m not knocking the guy, he’s good and has games where he rocks it. Although in fairness, the QBs throwing to him haven’t been very good either. I love passion from players. Don’t mind him at all expressing his emotions. From a coach’s perspective, you can get a lot out of passionate players.

How did I not? You go with the person who has more experience directly related to the situation. Maybe drop the snark and just ask next time. It makes conversation easier.

I think there are other options. Get rid of spot fouls for PI. Reduce the number of automatic first downs penalties in favor of yardage and replay the down. Bring back challenges for penalties only this time, the head official is being recorded and states their justification. This is then used by an independent panel to verify afterwards. What consequences for still making a bad call after the review can now be defended and argued by both sides. This solution is more cost effective than going all refs full time.

And before it is exposed, has it still occurred? This supposes all crime is found out and brought to light. This isn’t the case sadly. There are plenty of crimes that go unnoticed, undocumented and unpunished.

That’s easy. The one with the better acumen. People who have spent years playing the game are in the vast majority of cases are far more reliably knowledgeable than “Trust me bro” people in the internet. Not saying that’s what happened here, just in general.

Glad Irsay said it. Was frustrated that Steichen didn’t address it in his conference but likely was told by Irsay he would be doing so. The only way things will change is if enough attention on the topic forces the league into responding. When you have someone like McAfee, who has a very large audience openly making a connection between gambling and referees, it shows there is a large enough contingent who feel similarly right or wrong.

I’ve said it before but he should pick cash and pay it in pennies.

The reference to McAfee was in response to you stating Baker committed penalties. So you’ve never once in your life deferred to the expertise or experience of someone else? An appeal to authority isn’t a logical fallacy. It is a debate tactic that at times is correct and applicable and at times it is not. It in itself is not illogical. You can disagree on whether or not players are good critics of rules or penalties but if you’re trying to say that their opinion is no more valuable than mine or yours, I respectfully disagree and believe the majority of people in society would take the average former player’s opinion on football matters over an average football fan’s opinion just as I would take an engineers opinion on the safety of a bridge over that of a baker’s. So you agree that the refs, even after conferring still got it wrong despite the benefit of talking it over and looking at replays. So rather than getting it right, they took other factors other than the truth into consideration. This demonstrates that even if they get it incorrect, they will at times not overrule themselves. Whether it’s in a quick huddle or in a challenge. They did not police themselves. I know this because there have been documented examples of it happening. The question now is, if it has happened in the past, why can’t it happen in the present or future?

If a doctor says smoking is bad for your health and I point to that as a reason one shouldn’t smoke, the argument isn’t that I pointed to them but whether or not we agree of the doctor is a source of reliable information. The appeal to authority here are players, who have spent years playing this very game, stating it was a bad call to make. They are much more knowledgeable than you or I. Do you dispute their football knowledge? If no, then we need to agree that they have knowledge in this area. And for the record, it’s not just these three that have stated it was a bad call. Per the rule, hand fighting is allowed if the receiver initiates contact, which is what happened. And again, I’m not arguing the game. Only the feasibility of one official impacting a game. We don’t know what was discussed in that ref conference. Maybe they all agreed, maybe only one stated. As a side note, when challenges to PI were allowed, how many were overturned? The answer is a stunningly small number. Do you think the refs were correct in every one of their reviews? Why, or why not?

How would they come undone? You say those calls would be noticeable, why do you say that? Two or three calls a game in two games? Over the dozens made in the course of a season? Especially when holding and some level of PI happens on a huge number of plays? From what I’ve seen, game assignments are the only repercussions. The Ref Union may not allow some back but again, that would require it to be noticed and identified. Do companies act in bad faith to hide events that would impact their business? Yes. Is the NFL a business? Yes. You say it’s impossible because someone would blow the whistle. Maybe, maybe not. But the answer to those questions being yes means it is possible. It’s the level of probability that is in doubt. Calling it X Y or Z doesn’t change its level of feasibility.

The man played in the NFL. AJ Hawk and Darius Butler also agreed. They all have significantly more knowledge than anyone on this message board. Im not arguing this game. Only the feasibility of corruption from an NFL official. This game can serve as an example of one actor impacting the outcome of a game. I’m not saying this actor in this situation WANTED to do so, only that they did with no oversight or anyone stopping them.

Donaghy is the one who reported the 30k per the article. With the advent of online gambling, it is now easier than ever to place bets and to do so with a high level of anonymity. The use of a VPN and public Wi-Fi would make it almost impossible for an investigator to pin point who is making the bets. Throw in burner emails and banking accounts and there you have it. That’s not even to include the much simpler process of the ref working with one other individual which would make it even harder to prove. The majority of calls, again like holding, PI (pass catchable/uncatchable) are still primarily driven by the on site refs. One or two calls throughout a game, with a small number of games per year would be very hard to pin point a trend. The fact they’ve not gone to full time refs with meaningful accountability or consequences is abhorrent to a business that generates the level of money they do. You give the NFL much more credit than I do. Companies bury things like this frequently. To say that it would come out as a certainty is assuming a whistleblower would come forward. But the league could easily squash this by not fully investigating and/or throwing money to make it go away. This is admittedly (and to your point) the tin foil hat territory but is not impossible for it to happen. It assumes all crimes are always discovered. Hush money is a thing that is real. And your last paragraph only helps to support my statement of if it is one ref who is even remotely sensible acting in this way, how would the league even know? The FBI only discovered Donaghy by accident. Had they not been investigating organized crime, they wouldn’t have stumbled across Donaghy.

To the penalties, with all due respect, I’ll defer to Pat McAfee who believes the Colts were “bamboozled” by those calls. Now you’re attributing me saying that I believe the ref(s) we’re trying to influence the outcome of that particular game. Think bigger picture. I believe this could be an example however. This is founded by the fact that it happened in the first place. Holding penalties are easy but by no means the only judgement calls allowed by officials.

No only because intent is incredibly difficult to prove without a confession or statement. But it is evidence to show it CAN happen.