BleedBlu8792
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Posts posted by BleedBlu8792
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Well, Bruce Arians has been Peyton Manning's, QB coach, and an O coordinator for Ben Roethlisburger and cuurently HC/O Coordinator for Andrew Luck. He might even be courted for a HC job next season on another team next year. All the while all the real experts hash out what he really should do here on the Colts fan forum. ;)
“If you listen to the fans, you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.” Buddy Ryan, Brian Cashman, and Bill Polian.**
He doesn't need to listen us and just like in Pittsburgh he'll be the reason for his demise..
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Yeah I dismiss the nonsense from Pittsburg. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. They're still no better. Arians wasn't the problem.
Arians cannot make the Oline execute. The protection problems are on them, Grigson and the reality of our situation. Not BA.
Roethlisberger has been out 3 games and is probably having one of his best statistical seasons of his career. His sacks are down A LOT, has a 100 QB rating, and has a 4 to 1 TD to Int ratio.
They could easily be sitting at 9-3 or 8-4 had he been playing.
Its all about playing to the strengths of your personnel and Arians is to incompetent to realize that...
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If superbowls are the ultimate yardstick; BA's 2 SB wins > 1 PM win. BA was a fomer college quarterback, you have to assume he knows there are lots of improvements that still can be made.
Lebeau is credited for the Superbowl wins far more than Arians. Like I said in another thread, there is a reason Lebeau is still in Pittsburgh while Arians was shown the door.
And 22 points per game is nothing to be scared of.
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Arians would never leave this team. This is his last stop. He will retire before going anywhere else. Irsay is going to give him a HUGE raise. Enough to where he can make it rain with the players. Just dont ever tell me he will end up with
It would take less than a handful of games of Brady constantly getting hit or sacked before he would be asking for Arians head. However, as a Colts fan I would love to see it.
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On almost every play the pocket is collapsing around Luck. It doesn't matter what play is being called, Luck is generally under pressure. I only saw snippets of the game last night, but many times Peyton was sitting back in the pocket by himself. He was unpressured because of his line, not because he was getting the ball off in one second. Admittedly I did not see the entire game, but on the plays I did see, I found myself envious of that kind of pocket. If Luck had that, then I think he would have far less INTs this year than he does. But it is what it is, and at the end of the day we are still 8-4 and I am happy with the season.
I did watch the game last night and the MAJOR difference between what they did and what the Colts do is that they didn't give up on the run. Moreno ended up with over 30 carries and averaged 3.5 yards. They never gave up on the run and kept that Raiders defense guessing. Manning also plays the short game very well which also sets up his longer plays. Keeping a defense on its heels can help an O-line out tremendously.
In this offense there is nothing to guess at. Its the same thing over and over. Arians never sticks with the run when it is working let alone sticking with it when it isn't. You have to give the defense a different variation other than continuous shots down field. Arians is known for his sporadic play calling and doesn't run set plays to help set up others. Play action DOES NOT WORK when you haven't even attempted a running play which Arians some how believes does. By no means am I saying this O-line is great but the play calling and scheme completely hang the O-line AND Luck out to dry way to often and the instant perception is "Our O-line SUCKS".
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Doesn't even have to be a WCO. If he would simply add more checkdowns to his route combinations, this offense could thrive. I wouldn't mind keeping the offense, just ditch him as a play-caller. He's way too obsessed with 5-wide and vertical routes. I'm sure he'd send the 5 linemen out on go routes too, if he could.
true.. I mentioned in another post that if we did upgrade our O-line next year he'd just want to throw it more with even longer routes we would be even worse off than this year.I just think a more simplistic approach to the game makes more sense and would mask quite a few deficiencies on our O-line. Let alone the fact we don't run enough to help take pressure off the O-line. I mean seriously the first 7 plays in the Jacksonville game a couple Thursdays ago were pass plays and I believe 3 or 4 of them were play action.. wth!?! How can you believe that you could possibly fool a defense with play action 1 time let alone 3 or 4 when you haven't even attempted a running play.
The guy absolutely amazes me sometimes with how he gets a job..
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I hope the door hits him on the way out. I completely understand the Steelers frustrations with the guy and its quite obvious why he was shown the door there. A WCO especially with the TE's we have now would do Luck wonders. I would have no doubts the guy could beat Drew Brees completion percentage record and average ~30 points with this offense.
This offense could be so much better than 22 points per game.
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Actually, the key thing that separates the Colts from the Redskins is the offense ran. The Redskins are better on paper than they are in the game because a combination of running the WCO (quick passes) and zone blocking with a back who can hit the hole. The Colts might have a better O line but because of how long it takes for pass plays to develop under Arians scheme, the world may never know..lol
Good luck getting people to understand this...
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Please don't try to make yourself sound more intelligent by trying to tell people they don't know "simple math/physics" and then not break down the equations and algorithms. Maybe I would be more likely to believe your argument if you could support your hypothesis with your "simple math/physics".
And once again, If you don't understand how a strong O-line would completely open up our offense and lead to less mistakes from Luck, then there really is nothing more to say about this to you.
I already did... The time it takes for a defensive lineman to cover a certain distance (~5-7 yards) compared to a WR to cover (20-30 yards). I'll take the time it takes for said defensive lineman to get to the QB,
We will use Avery for example who has been clocked at a 4.3 40 (distance((conversion of yards to miles))/time). That's roughly 19mph. Hypothetically it would take him ~2.15 to go 20 yards down field in a straight line.
Lets use an average D-lineman (consideration to DT's and DE's) and use a 5.0 40 guy. That equates to roughly 16.3 mph. Lets say he has 7 yards to the QB. The time it takes for that D-lineman to cover that distance is just a tick under .9 of a second.
Considering the variables for a WR, a DB and the fact that not all routes are straight will obviously extend that route time a little longer. The same goes into consideration for the DL in that they have to shed blocks and get to the QB will obviously extend the time as well, but its hard to deny the difference in time that it will take for one to get to their respective position and I will take the DL every time in that battle.
After having read your last comment to the quote by jahsoul I think we are virtually agreeing to the same thing. However, as jahsoul said, and I will agree, that the personnel of this O-line is not right for the scheme that's being used by Arians. I don't agree with the assessment that they aren't good period, because they have shown their moments of being good in both pass blocking and run blocking. The first two drives of the New England game was absolutely flawless. They were running the ball AND throwing shorter routes with a FEW intermediate routes mixed in. After the third drive they went back to the longer developing plays with very little running and Belicheck blitzed I believe every play on out. Their 5-7 vs our 5 sometimes 6 was in the backfield very quickly and again its just hard for anything good to happen when you're giving the defense the jump on the play while extending the routes further and further.
I would love to have that impenetrable wall that you all want, but I just don't find it to be realistic with this scheme, especially when there are cap restraints. Even then I don't think it would be possible as I would have no doubts it would give Arians even more of a reason to want to throw more and longer.
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A lot of people don't realize the impact a scheme has on an offense. As it relates to the Redskins, they have a successful ground attack because:
1. The utilize the zone blocking scheme
2. They incorporate the option to give the defense different looks
They run that to disguise the deficiencies in the offensive live. This is the same offensive line that didn't have success last year. Anyone looking at their games know that when it comes to pure pass plays, the Redskins line doesn't hold up.
But it is interesting that someone brought up the Steelers considering they had the exact same issue under Arians.
THIS IS MY EXACT POINT...
People are expecting for this O-line to hold up in the scheme that Arians runs and I don't care how good the offensive line is if EVERY single route is 20-30 yards down field the QB is going to get hit or be forced to move before he has a chance to throw the ball. This has been proven since Arians tenure in Pittsburgh.
It would take the Colts entire salary in order to build an offensive line capable of sustaining consistent blocks in order for Arians time consuming plays to develop and to make the majority of the fans around here happy. However, the easiest thing to do right now is moan that this offensive line isn't good.
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If it is taking 5-7 seconds for a WR to get 20 yds. up field then there are serious problems. Plus there are plenty of O-lines in the league that can keep the defense off their QB's for at least 5 seconds. Also, when there is no serious threat what so ever of having a decent run game, then it just makes the O-lines job even tougher and for a line that is shaky(at best) at pass blocking, it puts every other skill position on the offense in a difficult position.
The fact that you are even questioning the importance of a good O-line tells me that no matter what I say, its just not going to sink in with you.
.. Seriously.. Plenty? Detroit's D-line was all over Schaub and they have a more limited passing attack than we do. Washington has one of the better rushing attacks in the league and they have a hard time keeping a clean pocket for Griffin, yet much like Houston they run a much more limited passing attack, in terms of their passing tree, than the Colts do. New England does a great job of mixing things up so much that the short throws can back the defense off enough in certain situations to allow longer developing plays to happen, but they don't do it EVERY SINGLE PLAY. I figured simple math/physics (time/distance) would get lost in the logic of things, along with how great that O-line was in 2010...
Carry on..
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They have no reason to. Their running game is much better than ours. I don't think Luck would throw 40 times a game if we could run.
Oh how I wish Jeff Saturday were still here so that he could go crazy on Arians like he did Peyton in 04' during the Rams game. "We need to run the
ball.." After what the Colts did against the Patriots in their first two drives, racking up 51 rushing yards, and then completely going away from it like they have all year, how can it be said that we can't run? We've shown a good handful of times that we are fully capable of running the ball, but no one can expect them to be good when you only try running once or twice and throw the next 10 times. Arians just doesn't give it time, but just like in Pittsburgh he never will. -
I agree 100%. Many people just do not understand this aspect of football. People think about the offense and only think about the skill positions. I have preached for yrs. that the trenches are where a good football team is built, both on offense and defense. A good offensive line is the lifeline of a good offense. Without a good O-line, it really don't matter how good your skill players are because the opportunities just won't be there if the O-line is not able to do their job.
Oh yes because expecting an offensive line to keep players off their QB for 5-7 seconds while he waits for his WR to get into his spot 20-30 yards down field are a dime a dozen. Some people don't grasp simple math. A defensive lineman having to only get ~5 yards up field will probably get to their spot much quicker than a WR having to go 20-30 yards.
"A good offensive line is the lifeline of a good offense."
Please explain 2010 to me. You know the one with the revolving door of lineman and an O-line that was probably the worst that the Colts have had in Manning's entire time with the Colts.
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The defense is still not good and definitely not dominating. In fact, if you really want to take a deeper look at it, they are one of the worst in the league in efficiency.
http://footballoutsi...m/stats/teamdef
You want to talk about how Luck puts his D in bad spots, how many times has this defense turned the ball over and put Luck in a good spot? Not very often.
I also think you greatly overrate the talent on offense. The O line, which is really one of the most important parts of any offense, is horrible. The running game is medicore on it's best days, pathetic on it's worst. The only real proven player on the entire offense was Reggie Wayne. Hilton is talented yes, but he also makes a ton of mistakes. Look at the Lions game if you don't think so, where he caused one of Luck's picks and nearly caused another late in the game by not crossing face on a slant pass.
That link directly relates to yards. POINTS determine ball games. The defense is holding teams down well enough point-wise that the Colts offense should not be struggling to barely win games.
3 and outs are virtually a turnover, however its the offenses responsibility to turn the field position in their favor as they are the ones who move the ball, but yes lets make yet another excuse for Mr. Luck. It does no good if the defense makes a stop only to watch our offense go three and out or turn the ball over.
I absolutely LOVE the bashing of the O-line. Our fans have done the same exact thing that Steeler fans used to do which was cry and moan that the O-line is just so terrible. Do you really believe with the way that Arians schemes this offense that even with an ALL-STAR line you are going to see Luck get 5 seconds to throw the ball? If so keep dreaming. He makes it an absolute dream to play against defensively. EVERY single passing play takes almost the same amount of time to develop. A good front 4 (Detroit and Buffalo), whose only 3-5 yards away from Luck, will more than likely cover that distance as fast if not faster than a receiver going 20 yards. Other teams (Patriots and Green Bay) are simply rushing 5-6 each time knowing that each passing play is taking quite a bit of time to develop. Its simple math/physics and common sense. Arians is too boneheaded to do anything about it and of course it makes the O-line look terrible. It almost got Ben killed and isn't helping Luck either. Its like defensive backs trying to cover a WR; there is only a small window of time before the WR is going to get open regardless of how good the defensive back is. On top of that they don't run enough to help the offensive line out anyways. 15 carries by the RB's against Detroit? Its like if there are a couple of small to no gains its automatically "well our O-line sucks and we can't run the ball". Coming out of the half Ballard literally walked them down the field and scored his first rushing TD and they barely ran after that let alone before that. And what the
are they doing running play-action when they haven't even tried running the ball yet? Reggie, Donnie, TY, and Dewayne have been good this year. Ballard would shine if they would actually run the ball, or not go away from him once he gets in a rhythm.
Yes, TY ran behind the DB on the one slant route but the other 2 were throws Luck had plenty of time to see and decide not to throw them but he did anyways. On the second INT, the WR broke off away from the spot in the zone the safety was playing and headed up field by himself, yet Luck threw it right at the safety. Why would the receiver go and sit in a spot with the safety right behind him and a DB not 5 yards in front of him? And why on earth would you attempt to make that throw to that spot? Regardless of what Arians said, and I know I'm going to get the whole "he knows more than you quote", but I felt the WR did the right thing and broke his route off away from the coverage. Lets not get into how many times Luck throws into double and triple coverage, but I guess that's a "rookie" mistake. Oh I can't wait until next year when the excuses go right out the window....
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How exactly are they winning then? Dominant run game? Dominant defense? Dominant special teams. You are right this is not the same team as last year. We basically started over with rookies and first year Colts. This team talent wise is probably worse then last year in most areas.
Peyton Manning ran a timing offense. Bruce Arian's doesn't. When people say he wouldn't survive this year behind that line, they are correct.
And nobody here thinks 12 can do no wrong. We just think he's better then you want to give him credit for. But you are a fan of a division rival, so you are not going to agree with us regardless.
You do realize that in 7 of the 8 Colts wins the defense has only given up ~17pts per game. The defense has kept them in games more than the offense. Nothing against Luck but his turnovers have directly forced the defense into VERY bad situations.
Luck has been pretty good, and I'm being generous because I could care less how many yards he throws for, POINTS win ball games and this offense is way too talented to only be averaging just 22 a game.
I'm a Colts fan I'm but I think Luck is getting WAY too much praise for a "ton of yards". Don't get me wrong he's been amazing in the two minute drills but its mainly been the defense whose pretty much been keeping them in games. I think there was a four or five game stretch, during the recent 5 game win streak, that the defense yielded just 3 points in the 2nd half of all of those games combined and also during that streak they were holding teams to just under 15pts per game and the Colts were still barely squeaking out the win. There has been more than just Luck thats attributed to these wins.
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Luck is a clutch player, something that Manning never really achieved. The Colts should definitely win multiple Super Bowls with Luck. He will eclipse Manning in winning, if not in individual statistics. Manning was over-rated.
Umm what? Over 40 4th quarter come back wins is not clutch?
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Not sure where I stand on this one. One play Satele pancakes his man in the run game, then the next his guy throws him out of the way to Luck. Frustratingly inconsistent. Shipley has got some serious power, but like you said he doesn't get to the next level like Satele. Sometimes I feel like coaches pander to the politics on these things....pay a guy $3 million a year, he's gonna start.
They probably know what they have in Shipley but as you said with Satele getting the pay day in the off-season they are going to play him, however this could be that they want him to play and then possibly trade him in the off-season. If he's healthy and benched what you could possibly get for him goes out the window. Play him, let him retain some of his value, trade him and go with the cheaper and just as valuable option in Shipley. We already have McGlynn to who can back that position up. Just my opinion but I think that's why they keep playing Satele over Shipley.
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What.. He's the glue in the secondary! (hehe if you saw before the edit) You want to see what happens without him. That's an extra 7 points every sunday.
He's been pretty much Houdini on the field and some of the mistakes he's made this year are very uncommon of him (blown assignments - Jags game - and very poor tackling -Jets game-). I'm a big fan but this has been a very down year for him.
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I don't see Bethea making it. He's been a huge disappointment this year. However, the majority of the voting is just name recognition so he may get in because of that.
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jerrell freeman: he had a great game with 16 tackles
do you think he may be better than patrick willis?
Willis is just on a whole different level. Don't get me wrong Freeman is an absolute beast but Willis is every bit as fast as him but is probably a good 10 lbs heavier and is VERY good at run support. If Freeman could add that little bit to his frame and not lose his speed he could potentially be as good but Willis went top-5 for a reason.
Freeman was a GEM dropped straight into the Colts lap and has produced greatly for them. I HOPE he's a Colt for a LONG time.
And as for the question I'm going with Freeman as well. He was all over the field AGAIN and helping limit the Bills to just 13pts is pretty good. That offense can light it up with the best of them.
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I bet half of Freemans tackles were after at least an 8 yard gain. So Gary Brackett.
Very average in pass coverage. #`s can be deceiving.
I can`t give our ILB`ers a real grade because we have a Horrible NT in Johnson.
Johnson can be knocked back at will, can not shuck a block, and makes plays rarely.
I would easily take that bet. The guy is consistently blasting RB's at the LoS. The only "bad" game I'd say he's had, along with the rest of the team, was the Jets game. His game against the Vikings made me a believer. He was going to head to head with Peterson and dropping him like he was nothing. Very few LB's have ever done that to Peterson.
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You can disagree all you want, but that still won't change the fact that their entire offense is predicated on screen passes and dump offs. He does throw the ball downfield some, but not even close to what Luck has to do in our offense.
When Luck actually figures out how to lead a receiver and NOT throw it behind them the majority of the time his INT's will diminish and the YAC for our receivers will go through the roof.
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Play calling does have something to do with it. it seems plays are being called without a purpose. example why run a playaction... when we have yet to run the ball... our why not run more screens with Brown. it seems we run plays to run them but not really with the intention to set something up. we at one point ran the ball 3-4 straight plays effectively... our first pass after that should be a PA pass... but it was not.
THIS was exactly why Steelers fans were upset with him. He doesn't use ANY plays to set up others. Its all very sporadic yet predictable.
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They looked sloppy plain and simple. Just because they win doesn't mean they are impervious to criticism. Play calling was terrible and as another poster said 20 points against the Bills leaves a lot to be desired. The team is way too talented, young or not, to only put up 20 against the Bills the defense. Maybe I am just one of the few who believe they are better than how they are playing.
true.. I mentioned in another post that if we did upgrade our O-line next year he'd just want to throw it more with even longer routes we would be even worse off than this year.
ball.." After what the Colts did against the Patriots in their first two drives, racking up 51 rushing yards, and then completely going away from it like they have all year, how can it be said that we can't run? We've shown a good handful of times that we are fully capable of running the ball, but no one can expect them to be good when you only try running once or twice and throw the next 10 times. Arians just doesn't give it time, but just like in Pittsburgh he never will.
Luck to Fleener?
in Colts Football
Posted
Overthrown on both