loudnproudcolt
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Posts posted by loudnproudcolt
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Just now, Superman said:
Seattle's best players were all there before Wilson. The Colts had only one notable starter under 30 when Luck was drafted -- Castonzo. They drafted better than the Colts, but they were drafting better than the Colts for two years already. It's not a perfect comparison.
My point exactly, even if I did not make it clearly. They had a base to build on, all they needed was Wilson to make it go basically. We had to build in the three years, and we rushed a bit on FA and lost.
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This article does not say it, but what Seattle did with Wilson, and the success he had during his initial contract. Because of that, we should have doe the same. They did not mention we were 2-14, and in three years we were in the AFC championship game. Seattle drafts incredibly well or did to get the defense they have, but it was not like they did it over night, which it seems is the meme about Luck and his contract.
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On 3/24/2016 at 0:36 PM, MPStack said:
Joe Dahl OG Wash St. Played OT, but projects well inside in a ZBS.
D. Houston-Carson FS William & Mary Nice size at 6-1 201 and played corner for 3 years before moving to FS.
Gil Brandt, who is very good at looking at talent loves Joe Dahl. He is one of his 10 most underrated
offensive prospects. Below is the link for anyone who wants a good read.
He also has a defensive side of underrated players well worth a read. He has been a good judge of talent, imo over the years.
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I may be missing something, but I would imagine that 40 was hand times. Dorsett hand times is going to be around 4.2-4.3, so is this kid not just a Dorsett clone in a way. Since we used a first round on him, I don't want someone who is close to his skill set because of a tenth of a second, but jmo!
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22 hours ago, Indy Fan said:
He's on my list due to production, size, and technique. I think he benefits greatly from the Clemson pass rush. A fun fact is the amount he lined up across from the number 2 WR and we all know how collegiate QBs stare down their main option. Technique wise he needs to keep an eye on the QB and foot work could use some work. This years CB class is really overrated IMO especially against last years.
You know everyone thinks Alexander is overrated, well Hargreaves is shorter than Alexander, and slower I
believe. His technique may be better, but I saw Hargreaves get toasted deep a lot last year. Now it was only the deep ball I saw, but I don't see him as a top 10 player.
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4 minutes ago, Surge89 said:
Kelly is right where he should be. Bottom of the 2nd. He is slightly above average at a position that is not premier. Everyone mocking in the first and trying to link him to us have no clue what the draft is about nor how it works.
I am not going to argue the merits of Kelly, since all I have to go on is his college career, and all his accomplishments. I am not a scout. I see players I like, and I look at our needs. What I will argue about, the center position not being premier. I won't get into semantics about what premier means, but the center is the glue of the line. He is incredibly important. When Pitt drafted Pouncey in the first, before we knew what kind of player he would be, did you think picking a center when they did was a bad choice. How about Miami. I look at how we have
struggled with our line, and the revolving center play is one of the top reasons. Saturday may have not been
incredibly athletic, but he made up with it in intelligence. We underestimate how important that relationship is
to the line and the QB, IMHO only.
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As far as the medicals go, remember the timeline of the surgery. After the surgery, the reports from Smith's camp I am sure was everything is fine, there was no damage at all to the nerve, and the surgery was successful.
Then the combine, and the nerve is stretched, and you see the ramifications, i.e. foot drop, and what he is having to deal with. Smith's team has no interest in being fully transparent about the medicals and I don't blame him at all. He is an athlete and would never see anything but a 100% recovery.
It will come down to our medical staff and what they say. I don't believe he goes any higher than the 3rd, and after his surgery, before the stretched nerve report at the combine, I wanted us to pick him at 18. I just hope he is healthy!
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I can't believe he has Cody Whitehair in the 3rd round. I have seen him no lower than mid 2nd. If McShay is right, there will be some real value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. My question is, if Martin is 3rd round talent with limited upside at center position, then it puts us in a pickle about Kelly. He has him rated lower than I have seen. In the end, you have your own rankings and stand by them. It will be interesting!
One more thing: I wonder how many of the guys Nkemdiche, Spence, who seem destined for the first round fall. I think in this draft the smart play is to look for players falling than ascending in this draft. Lot of talent with iffy characteristic traits.
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13 hours ago, Archer said:
* At least a much more realistic FA mock, as we passed on the big moves.
I'm now guessing that we will only add two more players before the draft, the rumored Courtney Upshaw and a low-level possible starting CB, Sterling Moore of TB. Then the mock goes:
1) Ryan Kelly, C, Alabama. With the lack of a FA move, we need to get the best Center possible, which is definitely Kelly (after the combine). Trade-down is very possible. The other real possibility would be an edge rusher, but I'm not crazy about the fit of Ogbah or the character of Spence. This is one of those drafts where we MUST add future cogs, and Kelly will be that. Safe is the word of the day. (Failing the adding of the CB in FA, I'd be really high on Eli Apple here too.)
2) Shilique Calhoun, OLB, Michigan St. I also consider this a safe pick, due to his production over the last three years and his reputation as a solid locker room guy. He lacks top-end closing speed, but he has favorable quickness (shuttles and cones), arm length, and hops to most of the other edge possibilities.
3) Joe Walker, ILB, Oregon. Many may be unfamiliar, but his fantastic PD has scouts scrambling. He was thought of as an excellent college ILB who lacked athleticism for the NFL. Then he ran a 4.60ish forty, ran a 6.84 3-cone, hopped 37.5 inches, and put up 23 bench press reps. A great motor guy who is good in coverage. I'm guessing he'll settle somewhere in Round 3. I haven't been down on our ILBs, but coming into the season with D'Qwell instead of Freeman and Sio Moore being a FA after 2016 made me want to add another well-rounded cog for the future.
4) Joseph Thuney, OG, NC St. I have a feeling this guy is rising. I think he's the ideal for guard in ZBS standards. 6'5, 304, 4.86 forty, 28 bp. Very smart and dependable, supposedly able to play all five spots, and we interviewed him at the East West Shrine. Maybe Philbin is thinking of letting Thornton, Good, Heenan, a draftee and anyone else on the roster compete for the RG spot (especially if we land Kelly at Center).
5) Tyler Ervin, RB, San Jose St. Had a good combine with a 4.41 forty and 39 inch vertical. Only 192 pounds and no power element to his game, but quick to the hole and not a dancer. Explosive (with frequent long runs) and a very good receiver.
7) Mike Thomas, WR, Southern Mississippi. 6'1, 197 makes him a little different than three other WRs set to make the roster (Hilton, Dorsett, and Bray). Lacks polish, but fantastic upside. Quick with downfield speed.
All I needed to see is the first pick, and I loved the draft. I know I have not been the only one who has been pounding the table for him, but I believe a center on one side of the ball and an ILB on the other side of the ball are so important. A center is the glue, the foundation, and I want our Mack, or Pouncey for the next 10 years to grow, work, and protect Luck. He has been and will remain my choice. If they go Ragland or ILB in the first, and Martin in the second, I would be OK with it, but I believe Kelly is so much better. It is not sexy, but it is a solid foundational pick!
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When was Thornton drafted. What always scares me is when a player waits until his last contract year to really put the work in. Then gets paid and goes back to his old ways. I believe this is his third year though. Lets hope it is not a contract push! Regardless, if he improves and becomes trade bait, more comp picks coming, just like the 2-3 next year we will have!
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My prediction is the draft is going to be Kelly at center or Ragland. We need both positions so badly, because next to Luck, I believe they are the positions people feed off of. You need a stud at LB to be the one calling plays and leading. It can be an experience safety, but I look at Wagner or Kuechly, and they are the ones who fuel that defense. The OL can be so cohesive with a smart, physical center. We need both, and I don't care if we go Kelly, and then ILB, or Ragland, and then Martin, although I would prefer Kelly. Still so many more positives than negatives.
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8 minutes ago, Iancolts said:
Grigson failed in FA the past couple years!! Now it's coming back to haunt us big time. We went to the AFC champ game two seasons ago! We lost our QB this past season so we miss the playoffs. Luck will be back and now all of a sudden we are a few years out of being a SB contender? Grigson needs to be fired can't believe he was resigned. Now we have to rebuild the monster all over again through draft picks which is good but it's gonna take a while. We are gonna sign Luck to a monster contract. We are gonna have a SB QB and no defense. If we are gonna play the waiting game and rebuild all over again mine as well trade Luck while we are at it and get draft picks. I'm just angry that Grigson missed so much in FA even if he didn't put us in salary cap issue he used up most of it for below average talent!
The problem you bring up is the problem in FA, signing what you thought was good talent and it turns out to be average to below average. This happens every year. Grigson fell into the same trap as almost every team who tries to get over the hump.
Anyone know how many sacks Malik Jackson had this year, and in his four year career? 51/2 sacks, 14 for the career. That is average talent who did great during a Superbowl run who Jacksonville paid 45M/ guaranteed to. I can continue with numbers and dollars, especially this year, but FA is a trap, and Grigson only has 4 years under in his tenure.
You live and learn. If you are not given the chance, then you have no continuity as an organization. There is a reason Polian after a long time in the NFL did not use FA, although he could not in Buffalo under the old rules. Why do you think Baltimore does not, or GB? Baltimore had a horrendous year. I am sure there fans are clamoring for change, yet they stayed to their formula. Ozzie knows it works. Grigson next year will have at least one if not two comp. picks from this year. Plus there are still players out there, like Heyward, at very reduced dollars. I know people wanted Heyward from this board. Can you imagine if we signed him the first day. Would everyone of been glad about that?
This is a business about continuity, and both GM and coach are still learning. I agree with many, I wanted a top notch guard and CB, but we are not privy to their plans. As I said in my Colts Salary Cap post, after we sign Andrew this off season, we will have large cap dollars next year, and a lot of our players signed. I think we are waiting for that to happen, and then make smarter decisions, like Denver did for their Superbowl run did in FA. Only my very long HO.
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I don't know how the rich got richer when he signed a one year deal, and nobody was really after. Jags figured he was an upgrade, but who knows if he will be. He was an OK player for Jacksonville, but I don't believe he is the type of player you add and say your secondary is better.
Jacksonville looks better on paper, but they did last year also. They improve last year, but not for how much they spent. They need to improve quite a bit this year, or all they did was become poorer. You don't give a player who is not a pro bowler 45M guaranteed(Jackson). They have done some very large FA acquisitions the last two years, and next year and the one after that they have a lot of people they need to resign. They may have just made sure in the long run they will become poorer. FA does not translate into wins.
Everyone wants us to make deals for guys. I wanted a quality guard and a quality CB, but that was it. After seeing the prices which were paid in the last 3 days, and the success we have had with FA, and what history says about FA, I think I would rather hoard my money for a bit.
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I just wanted to give everyone a reminder who is saying we don't have enough salary cap to do this or that. It is true we only have around 20M left this year in salary cap, but a couple things to remember.
1) Andrew's salary is already counted in that number, at least the 5yr option at 16.1, so signing him will not hurt the cap this year unless we front load it.
2)I believe more cuts or restructurings will happen.
3) I think most of the high money fruit is off the tree, but I am sure most will not see that as a positive, but if we want to sign players, we have the money for it.
4) Next year, we have cap space of over 72M, and that is without the carryover I am guessing we will have, and without the 8% raise in salary cap which has been happening because of TV revenues, so next year, we are going to have a lot of cap space. I hope if we have cap space at the end of FA, we front load Andrew's contract!
Just a few thoughts going through my head about the cap, but the most important, is Andrews salary for this year is already in the numbers.
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I would be happy to if I had only played 7 games in my NFL history and someone is going to give me 18M/yr. based on that resume. Go back to his games, and tell me what he did which was so extraordinary. Denver won because of their defense!
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How do you think Oakland is going to make jumps so quickly? Plus I don't know why people do not think about things like players getting big money, but for the next team, it does not work because it was the scheme that helped them. Also, what about chemistry? If FA was so great, Miami, Washington, would have won several
super bowls over the past few years!
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I do, but the majority of that team was done through drafting. Elway did a great job drafting the last few years and mixing in FA's, but not incredibly costly ones. They did not win because of Peyton. Ware and Ward helped on defense no doubt about it. Sanders was a big help on offense, but still most of their talent was home grown. Also they did not break the bank, they added that FA talent over a 3 year time period.
The main fact is they did not overspend for any of their free agents. Ward and Sanders came cheaply. If you can get FA's for decent salaries, then great. Look at my quote, it is in the first days of FA where teams get killed jumping on players.
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Jacksonville is also opening the huge payday book. Did you see what they paid Malik Jackson? 6 years/ 90 million with 45M guaranteed in the first 3 years.
Houston has had some nice signings but they have all been very expensive. Paying Osweiller 18M per year for really an unproven player.
Everyone is complaining about us not signing players, but this is the first day. Also, when has winning been accomplished through FA? This kind of money is silly and is going to be coming back to haunt teams for a long time. Look at Miami, they always win the FA marathon, but lose in the regular season. They are already in salary cap hell
thanks to signing Suh, and they are doing more damage this off season.Remember the Philadelphia FA dream team which imploded.
Yes I want some good OL, CB, and still hoping for some, but this is nuts!
They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Obviously this is FA (in the first few days) in a nutshell.
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For some perspective on the Dwight Allen deal and what Coby is worth, I thought it was interesting NFL.com had Dwight Allen rated as the second best FA at his position. Coby on the other hand is rated the number 11 best FA TE. The main reason is because of drops. We all know about that. I think that played a big role into why we signed Dwight to the deal we did. I also think after Wed. we are going to see it is not that bad of a deal when money starts flying around. We are only stuck for two years if it goes bad. Also, I believe Coby is going to get paid more, at least 8M a year. Is he worth that? I know he thinks he is, and with some of the cap numbers teams have to spend, he has a good chance. Another thing to figure in with these teams who have ridiculous cap numbers is the 89% rule and having to spend that much of the cap by 2017 I believe is going to come into play, thereby inflating salaries.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000626081/article/2016-nfl-unrestricted-free-agents-by-position
The above link is all the FA's and their rankings by position.
Coby sees himself as being highly valued, and is wanting big money. I am guessing he is asking for Julius Thomas type money, 9M/yr. and I believe he will get it. He has speed, has been durable, and can stretch the field. The problem is, although he can block, he still needs work there, and his hands. I also think Dwight got paid not only because of his worth as a TE, but because of his blocking acumen. If he stays healthy, it is a smart move. I am sure they offered Coby the same type of money, and the word is they are far apart. For my part, I say let him go, and we will get a nice comp. pick out of it. Look at TE's of the past few years and what they have been paid, who I would argue are not as good as Coby or Dwight. Charles Clay, Buffalo paid him 8M/yr. last year, and I don't think he is near the player of either of them. Cook and what the Rams paid him two years ago. I think we will look back and start having to shift our ideas on salaries as the cap starts to explode.
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I think everyone needs to start adjusting what FA's are going to get paid, at least in the first few weeks. A good guard, which I favor like Boone is going to cost what Lupati got last year at least, and I am OK with that.
I am with Archer though, the inside of the line is what we need to target. I want a very good guard out of FA. That way we can draft Kelly, and let him develop with Luck. I think having that center position nailed down is just so important. Without that, the line has no glue to hold it together. Saturday was not the best, but his mental aspect of the game made him perfect for Peyton. I want to emulate the Steelers and get a Pouncey. So draft Kelly and sign Schwartz, Boone, or Allen.
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Everything I have seen after a few days says he will be signed as a FA at best. Just hype over the initial speed clocked by hand. Had a great vertical also, but still FA. Only 3 teams talked with him after him combine workout.
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From what I have read about Jacksonville, a lot of the cap space they have they want to keep for next year, since many of the players they want to keep from previous drafts will be coming up for extensions, and they want to extend early. Keep players a little cheaper that way. Their GM listed about 6 players they wanted to extend for next year, so they may not be as aggressive as everyone thinks.
The one mistake we made I believe was not extending Andrew early. Jags extend Bortles early would be smart. I don't know how good he will be, but considering what middling QB's are getting?
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I know this won't be a popular, as I wanted to keep Fleener myself, but with the cap expanding, I bet he lands at least 8M or more on the open market. If we don't sign him, it was simply do to the money. I bet we are going to see what we paid for Allen is not that much. It is easy to view this through the prism of how he has been hurt. If he is healthy, well worth the money, especially as the cap continues to expand. Everyone should take that into consideration. Everyone thought two years ago the Vontae money was insane, now it looks like a bargain.
The one thing I think everyone is missing is we will have a relatively high comp pick coming next year in the draft. This is how the Ravens operate. They develop their players, and the ones they cannot sign bring them high comps.
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Basically after last year and the skirting of the rules, agents can begin talking to clubs and start negotiating details starting on Monday, but no contracts can be signed until Wednesday. I am sure agents are talking to clubs right now. The rules last year were a joke. Contracts were basically being negotiated, and all they needed was the signature two days prior to FA. That is why the change to agent contact with clubs is OK, but not player contact.
7 Round Mock Draft 2.0
in NFL Draft, Scouting, and Free Agent Talk
Posted
I really like this draft, but I just have trouble always with where these players are actually going to go, and where we think they will be taken. Joseph is a stud. If he is there in the second round, we will be lucky. Jenkins I actually like more than Floyd. I would love Jenkins and Scooby to pop into the LB core. Conklin would be a great pick. We would have our LT or LG for the next 10 years. I want guys who had to grind to make teams, have that drive!!! The last pick Dahl is going to go much sooner than the 7th, I believe the 3rd. Gil Brandt from NFL has him as one of his 10 most underrated offensive players. Dahl is like Conklin. A motor that does not stop! Really a good mix of players which would help us!
If we got Jenkins and Wright for defense, and Conklin and Dahl for offense, I would be ecstatic.